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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/8/2005 7:39:42 PM EDT
I've heard GoldDot is pretty good ammo to carry. Yes? No? Anything better? Not interested in Glaser-type rounds. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 7:42:18 PM EDT
In 9mm anyway, Gold Dot 124gr+Ps are pretty badass. I think the only round to top them (performance-wise) is the 124 (or maybe 147?)gr Winchester Ranger Ts.
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 9:50:21 PM EDT
I don't own a 38 so i'm not qualified to say, but i've heared good things about the 135gr GDHP

In 9mm and 45 I use winchester rangers. 147gr in 9mm, 230 in 45. Standard pressure.
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 9:14:25 AM EDT
9mm: 147-grain Gold Dots or Ranger-T's.
.38: 135-grain Gold Dots or 158-grain LSWCHP's.
.45: 230-grain Gold Dots or Ranger-T's.

You quite simply cannot go wrong with any of those loads.
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 9:18:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
9mm: 147-grain Gold Dots or Ranger-T's.
.38: 135-grain Gold Dots or 158-grain LSWCHP's.
.45: 230-grain Gold Dots or Ranger-T's.

You quite simply cannot go wrong with any of those loads.



what he said. thread close
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 2:53:30 PM EDT
Thanks guys!! Guess I'll be loading up on GoldDots and Rangers.
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 3:23:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2005 7:32:18 AM EDT by Aim4MyHead]
when you care to to send the very best only Glaser Safety Slug sliver tip will do

J
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 3:34:55 PM EDT
federal Hydra Shoks or corbons in either caliber

Link Posted: 7/9/2005 4:36:54 PM EDT
Go to Tactical Forums. I would not ask a question of that importance in any other place.
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 5:04:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2005 5:06:00 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 5:18:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:
when you care to to send the very best only Glazer Safety Slug sliver tip will do

J

Bah. Glazers suck. Speer GDHPs are far better.
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 10:41:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 6:15:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2005 7:33:06 AM EDT by Aim4MyHead]

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:
when you care to to send the very best only Glaser Safety Slug sliver tip will do

J

Bah. Glasers suck. Speer GDHPs are far better.



perhaps you've never seen what a glaser round does to someone? Can you think of a better round for home defense?

J
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 6:21:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:
when you care to to send the very best only Glazer Safety Slug sliver tip will do

J

Bah. Glazers suck. Speer GDHPs are far better.



perhaps you've never seen what a glazer round does to someone? Can you think of a better round for home defense?

J



Have you seen the effects of one of these rounds? Always been curious as to the "effectiveness" of these rounds. The energy tables of the various caliber rounds are very phenomenal compared to other hollowpoint/FMJ rounds of major manufacturers. I know the local hospital authority police officers carry them in 9mm in their Smith&Wessons, due to concerns on over-penetration.
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 6:34:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:
when you care to to send the very best only Glazer Safety Slug sliver tip will do

J

Bah. Glazers suck. Speer GDHPs are far better.



perhaps you've never seen what a glazer round does to someone? Can you think of a better round for home defense?

J


Nope never seen it. But if I need to shoot someone, I'll take a tested, proven round like Ranger Ts or Speer GDHPs. I have no use for "Safety" slugs.
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 4:58:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2005 7:33:43 AM EDT by Aim4MyHead]
i worked a shooting where a guy was shot with a blue 38spl. He was hit in the shoulder and it peeled his bicep and pectoral muscle off his body. He expired later from massive blood loss.
If that isn't enough do a melon test. I've done this as well. I put a melon at 50 yards and hit it with a 10mm speer GDHP. It cracked in half. Then i shot another melon with a 10mm Glaser. The melon exploded sending chunks 3 feet up the burm and 2 feet infront. You should check the ballistics of these rounds. Glaser gets these rounds to scream out of a barrel. their 45 acp +p is screaming at almost 1400 fps. Their 10mm is cooking at 1600 fps. The 308 they offer is moving at 3000 fps. The transfer of energy is amazing on impact.


J
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 5:10:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2005 5:12:25 AM EDT by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:
i worked a shooting where a guy was shot with a blue 38spl. He was hit in the shoulder and it peeled his bicep and pectoral muscle off his body. He expired later from massive blood loss.
If that isn't enough do a melon test. I've done this as well. I put a melon at 50 yards and hit it with a 10mm speer GDHP. It cracked in half. Then i shot another melon with a 10mm Glazer. The melon exploded sending chunks 3 feet up the burm and 2 feet infront. You should check the ballistics of these rounds. Glazer gets these rounds to scream out of a barrel. their 45 acp +p is screaming at almost 1400 fps. Their 10mm is cooking at 1600 fps. The 308 they offer is moving at 3000 fps. The transfer of energy is amazing on impact.


J



I'll remember this if I ever face an attack by a melon.

Since you are so easily distracted by exploding melons and energy transfer, perhaps you can explain how those things actual end up stopping attackers?

Handgun rounds (except for CNS shots) stop attacks by penetrating deeply enough to disrupt major organs and cause rapid blood loss. Shallow penetrating light-and-fast-for-caliber rounds MAY kill a person, but them dying later from slow blood loss will be cold comfort to your next of kin.

To the orginal poster: Gold Dots, Ranger Ts and Federal HST are all good rounds. You really should check out Tactical Forums if you want an education in ammo selection and testing.
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 7:29:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2005 7:31:59 AM EDT by Aim4MyHead]

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:
i worked a shooting where a guy was shot with a blue 38spl. He was hit in the shoulder and it peeled his bicep and pectoral muscle off his body. He expired later from massive blood loss.
If that isn't enough do a melon test. I've done this as well. I put a melon at 50 yards and hit it with a 10mm speer GDHP. It cracked in half. Then i shot another melon with a 10mm Glaser. The melon exploded sending chunks 3 feet up the burm and 2 feet infront. You should check the ballistics of these rounds. Glazer gets these rounds to scream out of a barrel. their 45 acp +p is screaming at almost 1400 fps. Their 10mm is cooking at 1600 fps. The 308 they offer is moving at 3000 fps. The transfer of energy is amazing on impact.


J



I'll remember this if I ever face an attack by a melon.

Since you are so easily distracted by exploding melons and energy transfer, perhaps you can explain how those things actual end up stopping attackers?

Handgun rounds (except for CNS shots) stop attacks by penetrating deeply enough to disrupt major organs and cause rapid blood loss. Shallow penetrating light-and-fast-for-caliber rounds MAY kill a person, but them dying later from slow blood loss will be cold comfort to your next of kin.

To the orginal poster: Gold Dots, Ranger Ts and Federal HST are all good rounds. You really should check out Tactical Forums if you want an education in ammo selection and testing.




I'll ignore your uneducated comments for the moment and address your question. A bullet can go as deep as it wants but if it never comes in contact with a vital organ it won't stop someone. Unlike the conventional defensive round a Glaser is designed for the maxium amount of damage by causing more wound channels. The more entries into the torso the greater the chance for coming in contact with vital organs. I'm going to assume from your earlier comment about energy transfer you do not have a lot of experience with ballistics and or shootings. 90% of the time people do not realized they have been shot. People do not fall backwards or drop to their knees. Even the some of the largest handgun calibers will not make someone stumble backward. What stops a body is trauma and shock caused by the injury. When a massive amount of energy has been transfered the greater the likelyhood of serious trauma and shock. To address your " next of kin " comment. Most self defense shootings are at such a close range the shooter themselves will sustain some form of defensive injury. Like i mentioned above peple do not stop instantly from a gun shot. When someone attacks you more than likely they had a plan prior to their attack. That means you must react to their plan. That puts you a step behind your attacker. being able to cause the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time will help you overcome the attack.

Out of curiousity when was the last time you worked a shooting, been involved in one, or examined the body of someone who has expired due to a GSW?


J
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 7:50:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By V-Rod:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
9mm: 147124/127-grain Gold Dots+P or Ranger-T's +P+.
.38: 135-grain Gold Dots or 158-grain LSWCHP's.
.45: 230-grain Gold Dots or Ranger-T's.

You quite simply cannot go wrong with any of those loads.



what he said. thread close



Yup



The 147's offer less recoil and greater penetration yet still expand reliably. Both are rated pretty well, though a lot of the experts who rate them equally well carry the 147.
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 7:56:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:
I'll ignore your uneducated comments for the moment and address your question. A bullet can go as deep as it wants but if it never comes in contact with a vital organ it won't stop someone. Unlike the conventional defensive round a Glaser is designed for the maxium amount of damage by causing more wound channels. The more entries into the torso the greater the chance for coming in contact with vital organs. I'm going to assume from your earlier comment about energy transfer you do not have a lot of experience with ballistics and or shootings. 90% of the time people do not realized they have been shot. People do not fall backwards or drop to their knees. Even the some of the largest handgun calibers will not make someone stumble backward. What stops a body is trauma and shock caused by the injury. When a massive amount of energy has been transfered the greater the likelyhood of serious trauma and shock. To address your " next of kin " comment. Most self defense shootings are at such a close range the shooter themselves will sustain some form of defensive injury. Like i mentioned above peple do not stop instantly from a gun shot. When someone attacks you more than likely they had a plan prior to their attack. That means you must react to their plan. That puts you a step behind your attacker. being able to cause the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time will help you overcome the attack.

Out of curiousity when was the last time you worked a shooting, been involved in one, or examined the body of someone who has expired due to a GSW?


J



I suppose you have something to back up the highlighted statement?

"Energy Transfer" is a useless wounding mechanism in handgun rounds. One must destroy enough vital tissue to quickly stop the attack. Round projectiles, like those found in the Glaser slug, have by far the worst projectile profile for causing tissue damage, acccording to Duncan McPherson's book Bullet Penetration. The Glaser will leave a shallow wound whose total volume of crushed tissue is a fraction of that made by a good JHP round of the same caliber. The Glaser likely will also fail to reach the vital organs in all but the most ideal circumstances. Please explain how any of this can be a good thing?

Your ONE experience of a Glaser shooting victim does not change that fact. I went to school with a guy who was killed (bled out) when he accidently shot himself in the leg with a .22lr. I do not go out and propose that everyone arm themselves with .22lr handguns for self defense. Anecdotal shooting stories do not over ride the science of wound ballistics.
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 8:46:19 AM EDT
Aim3MyHead is a classic example of the totally ignorant thinking he is educated and giving bad advice. I hope everyone can see the folly in picking rounds for self defense one can defeat with a flexed bicep to absorb 100% of the incoming round and not have it enter the chest cavity.

Key things to remember to look for to recognise people ignorant of wound ballistics:

Any reference to "energy" of the projectile
Any reference to "energy transfer"
Any reference to "1 shot stops"
Any reference to "knockdown power"
Any reference to "hydrostatic shock"
Any reference to shallow penetration being "ideal"

Thank you and have a nice day.
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 10:36:49 AM EDT
Ah i long for the days when school is back in. One can only be taught to their ability to learn. This thread has become totally worthless at this point and any further attempt to try and save it would be a waste of effort. Now we're flexing our arms to stop bullets. I can't read anymore of this. This is just too much


J
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 10:56:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:
Ah i long for the days when school is back in. One can only be taught to their ability to learn. This thread has become totally worthless at this point and any further attempt to try and save it would be a waste of effort. Now we're flexing our arms to stop bullets. I can't read anymore of this. This is just too much


J



We are still waiting on a source to support your opinion on the Glaser slugs. I have already pointed to test done by Dr. Roberts, and the physics of bullet penetration as expounded by Duncan MacPherson to support my position. You can also read the works of Dr. Fackler, or go the Tactical Forums to get educated, or ask Shawn Dodson, or Dave DeFabio about the Glasers. Other than your OPINION, and one shooting result (as significant as the one with the .22lr I listed), do you have anything to back up your contention?

Since you are so fixated on the "energy transfer" method of wounding, you might want to read This. And stop getting your wound ballistics information from gun rags.
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 1:24:27 PM EDT
Wow!!! Didn't mean to stir up crap with my question. Was just looking to get some educated info about defensive rounds. Thank you all for your input. I decided to go Speer GoldDots all the way around. They seem to be pretty reliable and consistent from what I've read.
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 7:26:45 PM EDT
Gold dots have nickled cases, which match my slide, therefore are the bestest.
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 8:50:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Aim3MyHead is a classic example of the totally ignorant thinking he is educated and giving bad advice. I hope everyone can see the folly in picking rounds for self defense one can defeat with a flexed bicep to absorb 100% of the incoming round and not have it enter the chest cavity.

Key things to remember to look for to recognise people ignorant of wound ballistics:

Any reference to "energy" of the projectile
Any reference to "energy transfer"
Any reference to "1 shot stops"
Any reference to "knockdown power"
Any reference to "hydrostatic shock"
Any reference to shallow penetration being "ideal"

Thank you and have a nice day.



+1
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 5:08:00 PM EDT
GoldDot
GoldDot
GoldDot

Link Posted: 7/24/2005 7:18:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drew5337:
Gold dots have nickled cases, which match my slide, therefore are the bestest.

\


But really I use both Gold Dot's and HydraShock's in 9mm you can't go wrong with either of them in any caliber.
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 1:03:10 AM EDT
Actually.....the .38 load that seems to have the best history is the 158gr. lead HP +P (sans jacket). This was the old FBI load "back in the day".....most compared it's efectiveness to .45 ball (not ideal....but not too shabby for a .38!). I believe both Remington and Federal still make this load.
In 9mm....the 124gr. GDHP +P seems to be quite popular. As for .45? Pretty much anything seems to work, but the Speer 200gr. GDHP is a real "keeper". Typically penetrates at least 14" in "jello" and expands wider than the similar 230gr. GDHP.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:00:02 PM EDT
MY carry amm is:

.38Spec
Speer 135Gn (+p) GDHP

9mm
Winchester Ranger RA9T

45ACP
Speer Gold Dot 230Gn
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