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Page Handguns » H&K
Posted: 9/10/2011 11:57:28 PM EDT
I'm not trying to start another debate or pissing contest between the two but do have a few questions. I have three HK's all in .45 and usually I love them. They function flawlessly but they are not as common or mainstream as the Glock which makes them a bit higher in price (especially the mags) and accessories, holsters, ect options are fewer. Thankfully HK has gone to the universal rail on their newer pistols. I kinda wish HK had a closed hammer design like the Glock.

There are times I consider 'going Glock' so I start doing research.

I have noticed large amounts of postings and literature about the Gen 4 Glock extractors and who is using what kind of trigger/connector spring to cure whatever problems they are experiencing. Then I search HK forums and find "What trigger do you prefer?" "What's the difference between these two?" or "What caliber?" questions. Nobody seems to be talking about what mods they do to make their HK work better right out of the box. Just what the owner prefers. (LEM...V1...V2..ect)

So my questions: If Glock is such a popular system, why are there so many people having to mod them. Someone is always getting ejections to the left or brass in their face. I never heard of these issues with an HK. "Put a Gen 3 extractor in your Gen 4" ––- What!? No one mods an HK they only accessorize it.

Also, is Glock continuesly changing their internal designs? Extractors, extractor springs, recoil springs? I do not believe HK makes design changes. (ie. This extractor is for a .45 USP...period. This extractor is for a 9mm USP...period.) Doesn't matter when it was made. Does HK make design changes within the same model?

Thank you.

Link Posted: 9/11/2011 4:26:34 AM EDT
WoW - loaded post man.

First of all - I only have glocks in 9mm in the 3rd generation flavor, due to the issues w/ the 4th gens.

For the 9MM round the Glock, IMO cannot be beaten, just a few days ago picked up a used 17 w/ NS, VG condition for $325 + tax.

In .45 I have HKs, why? Just take a look at Todd Green's test of the HK45, it's a beast that IMO for the $ cannot be beat.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/category/range-reports/hk45

Glock 3rd Gen = 9mm

HK = .40 or .45
Link Posted: 9/11/2011 6:32:44 AM EDT
Gaston Glock was not a gun guy when he first started out.

You'd think by now they would be "perfection" but they absolutely suck for lefties and most likely always will.

Link Posted: 9/11/2011 6:43:45 AM EDT
GLOCK FTW

Link Posted: 9/11/2011 6:44:46 AM EDT
I have owned several HKs and Glocks.

I hated the weight and sharp square edges of the USPs, but I would take one over the cluster fuck known as the Gen 4 Glock.


All my Glocks are Gen 3 9mms.
Link Posted: 9/11/2011 6:52:55 AM EDT
For my HK's outside of swapping some trigger parts around to go to a LEM I have never done anything else to my guns outside of night sights.

Why is that? Because I have never had a problem with my HK's, one brand new out of the box and one a decade old used PD trade in and not one problem in the few thousand rounds I have put through them.

Although I have noticed that also, go to the HK section and look at how many posts are about my HK experiencing problems or breaking down, very little.
From what I have seen on different parts of this forum is that there is a-lot of HK love and owners but the reason you do not see them posting more is because the guns just simply work, no problems or need to change things up.
Link Posted: 9/11/2011 7:22:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By newbe:
I kinda wish HK had a closed hammer design like the Glock.


Glocks are striker fired unless they switched to hammer fired recently, I have not looked or so much as held a Glock in about 5 years. Because they are striker fired they have no hammer, enclosed or otherwise, and is why Glocks do not have repeat strike capability-again, unless recently introduced. Since Glocks are likely the most LE used pistol in the world because of good quality and low price, that is why training always focuses on rack, tap, boom when a misfire happens. Because you MUST rack the slide of a misfired Glock in order to proceed.
HKs are hammer fired and do have repeat strike capability. If HKs were the most commonly used pistol, training would be: pull the trigger again, rack, tap, boom. Why? Because one can pull the trigger again a whole lot more quickly than one can rack the slide, and you do not need two hands to pull the trigger again like you need to rack the slide (omitting the crowd that claim they can rack their slide on their belt while at the same time fighting off an attacker that just realized he has an opportunity of a lifetime to take your pistol from you and beat you to death with it). Pulling the trigger again takes half a second, you cannot TRB in half a second no matter what you claim. And most times a misfire is not from a totally dead round, but because something absorbed the fall of the firing pin. The first fall finishes seating the primer or crushes a bit of dirt hanging the works up and then the second fall fires the round. In over 45 years of shooting the only totally dead center fire rounds I have had are some very old milsurp 45s. I have had a lot of misfires but all, except those old milsurps, went off on the second try.

Link Posted: 9/11/2011 7:39:06 AM EDT
HK made a good pistol once and then they walked away from it.

They made a great 9mm carbine once and then they walked away from it.

Link Posted: 9/11/2011 7:53:39 AM EDT
What on earth are you talking about?

Made a great pistol once and walked away?

Oh, let me guess. You like the P7 series just because they are steel, correct?
Link Posted: 9/11/2011 10:08:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BlitzPig:
What on earth are you talking about?

Made a great pistol once and walked away?

Oh, let me guess. You like the P7 series just because they are steel, correct?


You have guessed wrong.
Link Posted: 9/11/2011 10:46:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tfod:
Originally Posted By BlitzPig:
What on earth are you talking about?

Made a great pistol once and walked away?

Oh, let me guess. You like the P7 series just because they are steel, correct?


You have guessed wrong.


Is this a game of guess who?
Link Posted: 9/11/2011 1:29:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By akethan:


I hated the weight and sharp square edges of the USPs, but I would take one over the cluster fuck known as the Gen 4 Glock.




Totally 100% agree.


Link Posted: 9/11/2011 1:32:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tfod:
HK made a good pistol once and then they walked away from it.

They made a great 9mm carbine once and then they walked away from it.



It appears the simplest answer is the correct answer.

Link Posted: 9/11/2011 4:42:21 PM EDT
I like my 9mm's in Glock and my 45's in HK. I own G19 OD green, G17 and HK USP45 (V1). I have plans for a HK45c. I like both pistols and both have their pro's and con's.
Link Posted: 9/12/2011 4:06:28 PM EDT
HAD a Glock 21, 30, 19 and 26.

NOW have a USP Compact tactical, USP Compact 45, P2000sk, and my P30 should be here this week.

Liked Glock, LOVE HK.

My Glocks never let me down, nor have my HKs
Link Posted: 9/12/2011 6:36:29 PM EDT
Glock 17,19=best 9mm under 650
P30/p30l best 9mm over 650$.

Different strokes for different folks. I went glock. I'll be picking up a p30 it hk45 later next month..

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/12/2011 7:53:33 PM EDT
I sold my Remington 1187 police 12 ga with all the acc. and bought an HK45. There wasn't one in KC. I bought it here on the EE without ever holding it. I went to my ffl and picked it up.

When I got home and finger fucked it I was in love. My Glock 21 - 45 went up for sale right shortly.

IMO it is like comparing a Chevy to a Mercedes.
Link Posted: 9/12/2011 9:26:10 PM EDT
Glocks are fine, in the way a regular car is fine. It will get you where you need to go, take you through some shit, and as needed you will have to replace parts. And in glocks they suggest every 3000-5000 rounds for a recoil assembly, which I think is retarded. But I do own a G19. And true to your first post, I have modded it.
-Backstrap channel insert
-Tungsten guide rod (with stock spring)
-extended slide release
-extended slide lock

And I plan on night sights and a ghost 3.5 pound connector maybe. But all and all, one of those parts is made by glock, the rest....other folks. IMO I won't own a glock if I had to keep it stock. My G19 Gen3 is a fine pistol and will get the job done. It is easy to clean and for its size, is pretty impressive, 15 rounds in the mag, and 4" barrel. Not bad.

My HK's on the other hand (USP 45, and HK45) have very little if any mods. And are well manufactured, with every thing not only fitting in to place, but has the smooth and confident cycle of operation you would expect from a match grade firearm. (Minus the DA trigger pull on a DA/SA variant). They handle recoil like a champ in all calibers, and are just over all very soft shooting....not to mention accurate. Like an expensive race car.

USP45
-HK factory Match trigger kit
-HK factory HK45c mag release
-More factory mags
-more bullets

HK45:
-More mags
-More bullets

You see with a factory HK pistol you are set as far as I am concerned. I ran my USP stock for 4 years, and as a rule, I try to keep my pistols stock. Like my HK45, but I wanted to see how a Match trigger would run in my USP.........And it is amazing.

As far as Glock VS HK, don't do that to yourself and others. They don't compare. They are two different Ideas on how to solve one problem. Getting the round to the target. Glocks take the most inexpensive direct way there. And HK's make sure that you are getting a quality piece for the money you are spending. Both are well made, and both will get the job done. Get what fits you best and shoots the straightest for you. Because in the end that is what matters. I shot both HK's and Glocks for years, put one or the other in my hand, tell me to get work done, and in the end the job is done. But I do like one over the other, because of the time I have spent with it and the accuracy I have been able to achieve with it.
Link Posted: 9/12/2011 10:11:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Big-Bore:
Originally Posted By newbe:
I kinda wish HK had a closed hammer design like the Glock.


Glocks are striker fired unless they switched to hammer fired recently, I have not looked or so much as held a Glock in about 5 years. Because they are striker fired they have no hammer, enclosed or otherwise, and is why Glocks do not have repeat strike capability-again, unless recently introduced. Since Glocks are likely the most LE used pistol in the world because of good quality and low price, that is why training always focuses on rack, tap, boom when a misfire happens. Because you MUST rack the slide of a misfired Glock in order to proceed.
HKs are hammer fired and do have repeat strike capability. If HKs were the most commonly used pistol, training would be: pull the trigger again, rack, tap, boom. Why? Because one can pull the trigger again a whole lot more quickly than one can rack the slide, and you do not need two hands to pull the trigger again like you need to rack the slide (omitting the crowd that claim they can rack their slide on their belt while at the same time fighting off an attacker that just realized he has an opportunity of a lifetime to take your pistol from you and beat you to death with it). Pulling the trigger again takes half a second, you cannot TRB in half a second no matter what you claim. And most times a misfire is not from a totally dead round, but because something absorbed the fall of the firing pin. The first fall finishes seating the primer or crushes a bit of dirt hanging the works up and then the second fall fires the round. In over 45 years of shooting the only totally dead center fire rounds I have had are some very old milsurp 45s. I have had a lot of misfires but all, except those old milsurps, went off on the second try.



Like

Link Posted: 9/13/2011 4:29:25 AM EDT
Sold all my Glocks,.....current EDC is a HK P2000 9mm.

About the same size as the G19, 10x bettter grip.
I have little to no need for Glocks.
Link Posted: 9/13/2011 5:59:51 AM EDT
The trigger of the HK drives me nuts. My wife has a usp compact 9mm that fits her little hand and she's a lefty. I've owned a 45 compact and shot my brothers 40 full size and I have to say that the grip was no good for me. The fit of a Glock is where it's at in 9mm and 40 for me. Some people love the USP triggers and like I said my wife has one and loves it too, but it just isn't there for me.

I'm not knocking the ability of the gun just how it feels in my hand while shooting it. Handguns have to fit the person.
Link Posted: 9/13/2011 7:52:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Christisking:
The trigger of the HK drives me nuts. My wife has a usp compact 9mm that fits her little hand and she's a lefty. I've owned a 45 compact and shot my brothers 40 full size and I have to say that the grip was no good for me. The fit of a Glock is where it's at in 9mm and 40 for me. Some people love the USP triggers and like I said my wife has one and loves it too, but it just isn't there for me.

I'm not knocking the ability of the gun just how it feels in my hand while shooting it. Handguns have to fit the person.


If anyone talks shit on that, they don't know what they are talking about. And for that same very reason HK's fit me. It is like they were built around my hand sometimes.
Link Posted: 9/13/2011 8:24:23 AM EDT
HK hands down, especially since Glock went full retard with their crappy, malfunctioning Gen 4s and out of spec extractors in the Gen 3 guns.
Link Posted: 9/13/2011 9:58:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LeeinTN:
HK hands down, especially since Glock went full retard with their crappy, malfunctioning Gen 4s and out of spec extractors in the Gen 3 guns.


Ditto. I have a Gen4 Glock 17 and a P30. Guess which one I trust with my life. I do think that the DA/SA trigger, which I have on my P30, takes a lot of practice to master.

I like how the G17 fits my hand though. I plan on modding it so that it will hopefully be a reliable pistol eventually.
Link Posted: 9/13/2011 10:05:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2011 10:06:47 AM EDT by Balista]
In the debate over Glock versus Heckler Koch, it's all about money.

Glock is the Kia of the gun world in pricing whereas HK costs an arm and a leg.

Most departments can only afford to kit their officers with the cheapest firearm model complete with holster and mags. This tends to price HK products (and other brands) out of the market for most police departments.

Departments issue the Glock to their officers.

So the the psychology is that Glock must be better or Tier 1 because so many officers are issued them when in reality it comes down to fiscal merits.

The reality is that for the overwhelming number officers, they will never use their firearm in a gun battle so it becomes a moot point.

Just an aside. HK could never hope to match the pricing nor production of Glock. HK had a hard just supplying the NJ State Police with P7 handguns.
Link Posted: 9/13/2011 10:16:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2011 10:17:29 AM EDT by jdubya87]
Had a 45 USP. Was accurate, but I had to work really hard to be accurate. NOT ergonomic for me, too big.

I now have a Glock 36. Its perfect. I have handled a Gen 4 Glock 21 and want one...but what's with all the reports of Gen 4 failures? Is there truth to this? With the new Glock 21 too?
Link Posted: 9/13/2011 11:09:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jdubya87:
Had a 45 USP. Was accurate, but I had to work really hard to be accurate. NOT ergonomic for me, too big.

I now have a Glock 36. Its perfect. I have handled a Gen 4 Glock 21 and want one...but what's with all the reports of Gen 4 failures? Is there truth to this? With the new Glock 21 too?


Type in "Glock Gen4 failures" Or "Glock Gen4 problems" and watch. There is plenty of truth in it. And the previous statement of "glock went full retard with the Gen 4's" should lay it out. You never go full retard, ever.
Link Posted: 9/13/2011 2:37:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2011 2:38:13 PM EDT by Balista]
Originally Posted By navyman8903:


Type in "Glock Gen4 failures" Or "Glock Gen4 problems" and watch. There is plenty of truth in it. And the previous statement of "glock went full retard with the Gen 4's" should lay it out. You never go full retard, ever.


Link Posted: 9/13/2011 2:55:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2011 2:56:08 PM EDT by RabidMonkeyPox]
Originally Posted By Balista:
Originally Posted By navyman8903:


Type in "Glock Gen4 failures" Or "Glock Gen4 problems" and watch. There is plenty of truth in it. And the previous statement of "glock went full retard with the Gen 4's" should lay it out. You never go full retard, ever.


http://www.geekologie.com/2011/03/04/dual-glocks-2.jpg


if you did that with HK's, representatives from Heckler and Koch will find you and take their guns back.
Link Posted: 9/13/2011 3:00:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2011 3:00:52 PM EDT by M4]

Originally Posted By tfod:
HK made a good pistol once and then they walked away from it.

They made a great 9mm carbine once and then they walked away from it.


out of a possible
Link Posted: 9/14/2011 12:35:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2011 12:36:41 AM EDT by HDBob]
Have had both guns. Love both. My brother in law wanted my 23 sold I sold it to him.bought me a p2000. Had the lem one before didn't care for it.shot my new 2000 today. Wow. Love at first shoot. Got the one without lem

I think it is a small step up from the glock
Link Posted: 9/14/2011 11:08:13 AM EDT
Get what fits. Every once in a while at a gunshow I'll pick up a Glock and check it out. But I just can't stand the grip angle. They don't feel right in my hand. I haven't shot my brother's G17 just because I have no desire to adjust to an uncomfortable gun. I'll stick with my '95 USP .40 and '03 USP .40C. Also, HKs are the only guns I have complete faith in. I've never seen or heard of a mechanical failure in an HK pistol. Glocks seem to have a less then spectacular reliability record.

If an HK fits you, get it. There is no point in getting 2nd best if your life might depend on it.
Link Posted: 9/16/2011 7:33:51 PM EDT
(Recreational shooter viewpoint) You cannot compare a USP to a Glock. A Glock is a striker fired handgun with absolutely as few parts as necessary for proper functioning. Glocks are extremely simple, reliable, inexpensive, and accurate enough for self defense. That being said every Glock is an accident waiting to happen. You cannot make a Glock safe unless you carry it with an empty chamber which no one does. If something snags that trigger, be it your finger, a piece of clothing or gear, or anything else a Glock will fire and there is no way of preventing that. This is the price you pay for simplcity. If you can live with this (and hundreds of thousands do) then buy all means buy one. I choose not to and do not own any Glocks. I have 3 USP's and other handguns every one of which has some sort of manual safety and/or can be carried in DA mode. Perhaps if I was LE I would make a different choice but I don't think so.
Link Posted: 9/16/2011 11:03:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 9x23w:
(Recreational shooter viewpoint) You cannot compare a USP to a Glock. A Glock is a striker fired handgun with absolutely as few parts as necessary for proper functioning. Glocks are extremely simple, reliable, inexpensive, and accurate enough for self defense. That being said every Glock is an accident waiting to happen. You cannot make a Glock safe unless you carry it with an empty chamber which no one does. If something snags that trigger, be it your finger, a piece of clothing or gear, or anything else a Glock will fire and there is no way of preventing that. This is the price you pay for simplcity. If you can live with this (and hundreds of thousands do) then buy all means buy one. I choose not to and do not own any Glocks. I have 3 USP's and other handguns every one of which has some sort of manual safety and/or can be carried in DA mode. Perhaps if I was LE I would make a different choice but I don't think so.


Page 2 before the retardation sets in.

'Twas a fine thread.

If you snag the trigger on a DAO USP or Da/SA USP (No manual safety) you'll fire off a round just as if it were a Glock. Ergo, any HK with no manual safety is an accident waiting to happen.

Link Posted: 9/17/2011 10:00:39 AM EDT
I always keep my thumb on the hammer when holstering my DA/SA P30S. Can't do that with a Glock. I have a safety but don't normally engage it.
Link Posted: 9/18/2011 7:32:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 9x23w:
(Recreational shooter viewpoint) You cannot compare a USP to a Glock. A Glock is a striker fired handgun with absolutely as few parts as necessary for proper functioning. Glocks are extremely simple, reliable, inexpensive, and accurate enough for self defense. That being said every Glock is an accident waiting to happen. You cannot make a Glock safe unless you carry it with an empty chamber which no one does. If something snags that trigger, be it your finger, a piece of clothing or gear, or anything else a Glock will fire and there is no way of preventing that. This is the price you pay for simplcity. If you can live with this (and hundreds of thousands do) then buy all means buy one. I choose not to and do not own any Glocks. I have 3 USP's and other handguns every one of which has some sort of manual safety and/or can be carried in DA mode. Perhaps if I was LE I would make a different choice but I don't think so.


Carrying a pistol with an empty chamber is unsafe.

Link Posted: 9/22/2011 4:08:48 PM EDT
I owned two HK USP compact .40s. The first was the "grey" frame (which was really a gay, baby blue color) and the second was an all black one. The only thing I liked about either of those was the recoil. Coming from a Glock 23 2nd gen, the recoil from the HK couldn't be better . . . it was just wonderful. However, I couldn't hit crap with either one. Sold the first one because I quickly tired of the gay, baby blue color (which once fired a few times got unclean-ably black anyway) and the fact I couldn't hit crap. Bought the black one hoping the first one was defective but couldn't hit crap with that one either. I did some research and I guess HK feels a different sight picture is in order. I could have adapted but since it didn't match the sight picture of any other gun I have I decided to sell the second USP40C. I bought a Glock 23 3rd gen and love it. Those few little changes really made a big difference for me with perceived recoil and it fits my hand SOOOOO much better.

But all of that is .40 cal land . . . for .45 land I'm looking hard at the new HK 45 and it looks nice. I like that they fixed the rail issue and it looks a lot sexier too! I'm glad to see some positive reports on it. The only question I have is about the sight picture or any other sighting issue. Do you aim this the same way you would a 1911 or a Glock or a whatever or do you have to change your sight picture or compensate low/high/etc.?

Link Posted: 9/22/2011 5:08:43 PM EDT
The HK 45 uses the standard European "Center Hold" or "Tactical" sight picture, not the common US "Six O'clock Hold" target sight picture.

Not an issue IMHO.
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 7:00:35 PM EDT
I'll stick with my HK's any day over a Glock.





Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:01:00 AM EDT
Bah, I like them all and own several of each (Sigs too). That said, what works for me is what works for me.

What works for me doesn't mean squat for you.

What I like doesn't mean squat for you.

What fits my hands best doesn't mean squat for you.

What I think is easy to shoot well doesn't mean squat for you.

See where I'm going with this? Several of my shooting buddies are 1911 freaks. They have tried for YEARS to get me to like them, but I just can't-despite lots of trigger time. To me, they are awkward to handle and I can't get over the limited capacity of a single stack mag. My preferences don't make them wrong, just different.

Is there a facility near you that allows you to rent guns? If so, walk in there with a couple hundred bucks and try everything.

Since everyone likes pictures:



Despite the fact that I was assured my (two) Gen4 G17s would burst into flames the nanosecond I started shooting I'm happy to report that both guns are doing just fine. One of them has 1600 rounds through it so far-500 of which were +P+ Rangers (RA9TA). Maybe I'm just lucky
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 8:32:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jdubya87:
I have handled a Gen 4 Glock 21 and want one...but what's with all the reports of Gen 4 failures? Is there truth to this? With the new Glock 21 too?
Been under a rock?

Link Posted: 9/23/2011 3:35:05 PM EDT
All you need to do is get a lone wolf extractor which mimics the gen 3 extractors and it fixes all the problems.

The issue with the recoil spring was just that it was designed for higher power rounds like NATO and SD rounds.
Link Posted: 9/24/2011 10:42:28 AM EDT
My Agency just got another Glock update on a new replacement for the Gen4 recoil assys. That's now like seven or eight iterations on recoil assys for the Gen4s.

My vote......HK.

YMMV
Link Posted: 9/24/2011 9:44:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JonnyVain:
All you need to do is get a lone wolf extractor which mimics the gen 3 extractors and it fixes all the problems.

The issue with the recoil spring was just that it was designed for higher power rounds like NATO and SD rounds.


Before I start, just know I am not shitting on you or making anything remotely personal.

That being said, I am beginning to see this pattern with Glock people, they are defending their company. (I don't have a problem with this, I do it too with HK, and sometimes even glock) BUT, you shouldn't make excuses, a Glock factory extractor, or recoil assembly should fix the problem, you shouldn't have to replace shit for the gun to run properly. You also shouldn't have to trouble shoot a brand new stock firearm ever. We are paying them to do that for us. To make a weapon that works perfect everytime.

Glock fucked themselves with the Gen4. They took the gen3, which in my opinion is a fine system for what it is, and drove it into a wall, lit it on fire, killed 15 kittens and puppies, punched an old lady in the face, and then said "It wasn't me."

Glock's lack of responsibility in the obvious design problems is disgusting to me. Which is why I will never in my life own or use a Gen 4 glock. Glock isn't even going to stop making gen3's because they would take a huge dive. But they also won't admit that they changed too many things on something that wasn't broken, and ruined a good thing.

HK, hasn't made those mistakes, and everything I have bought and fired from them, goes bang every time. EVERY TIME, zero problems. So that is why I pick them over glock every time. But my Gen3 G19 is running pretty well, but it has 5 aftermarket parts in it. My USP45 has a HK45c mag release, and HK Match trigger, all factory parts. And my HK45, is bone stock.
Link Posted: 9/25/2011 12:25:22 PM EDT
The P30 is probably the finest 9mm pistol on the market. I've had mine for almost two years now and it's been fantastic. That being said, I like shooting Glocks and their boxy grip fits my large hands well, better than most. The P30/HK45 grip is out of this world though. I picked one up and knew that was what I had to shoot. The grip also makes for the main problem I have with the P30: the stippling "spiderman" texture irritates the heck out of bare skin, and drives me nuts while carrying. In that regard, I ended up purchasing a SIG P232SL, as I wanted something a little more concealable and also more comfortable. I wish I had bought a HK45C originally, as that would have been superior for CC. The P30 is an ideal duty weapon, and was designed as such, from the heavy DA pull, to the aggressive grip. It's meant to be put in a holster, away from the body. The other issue, more of an annoyance than a problem, is the slide release lever rattle on the right side. I understand why it rattles, but to have such a annoyance on a $800-1k pistol just gives the impression of poor design. The solution is a simple wrap of electrical tape, again, just a minor annoyance. I actually forgot about it until writing this post. I carry the P30 infrequently now, and just bought a Phase Illumination Weaponlight for it. It now serves as a bedside gun. Midway had a crazy deal for that light, like $30, so I figured why not. It works very well, and I think any SD firearm should have reliable night sights or a light. It's also got a set of Meprolights, which are great, to go with the light.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac337/j5bailey1/IMAG0145.jpg

It's tough to compare a Glock with something like the P30. Glocks are great weapons, and have their place. The P30/HK45 though is a tank, a testament to over-engineered Teutonic pistol-making prowess. Todd Green put the rounds through them to prove it. The Gen4 Glock has not faired as well.
pistol-training.com P30 summary
pistol-training.com HK45 Summary
pistol-training.com Glock Gen4 Summary
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 3:48:11 PM EDT
I love my old usp, however when it comes to shooting it, it aint for everyone. The take up in sa is loooooooong, and the da is heavy in a weak set of hands. Then theres the lock time, when compared to a striker fired glock, it takes a while for that old hammer to fall plenty of time for you to fuck up the shot. That having been said I wouldnt trade my old usp for ten glocks, why? it fits my big mitts way better than any glock, its built like a tank and the recoil reduction system works great.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:22:35 AM EDT
Had a Glock 22 - good gun –– I couldnt stand the staple-gun trigger feel.

Sold it - got a USP 40 - awesome gun built like a tank.

HK is good to go
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 3:45:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By navyman8903:
Originally Posted By JonnyVain:
All you need to do is get a lone wolf extractor which mimics the gen 3 extractors and it fixes all the problems.

The issue with the recoil spring was just that it was designed for higher power rounds like NATO and SD rounds.


Before I start, just know I am not shitting on you or making anything remotely personal.

That being said, I am beginning to see this pattern with Glock people, they are defending their company. (I don't have a problem with this, I do it too with HK, and sometimes even glock) BUT, you shouldn't make excuses, a Glock factory extractor, or recoil assembly should fix the problem, you shouldn't have to replace shit for the gun to run properly. You also shouldn't have to trouble shoot a brand new stock firearm ever. We are paying them to do that for us. To make a weapon that works perfect everytime.

Glock fucked themselves with the Gen4. They took the gen3, which in my opinion is a fine system for what it is, and drove it into a wall, lit it on fire, killed 15 kittens and puppies, punched an old lady in the face, and then said "It wasn't me."

Glock's lack of responsibility in the obvious design problems is disgusting to me. Which is why I will never in my life own or use a Gen 4 glock. Glock isn't even going to stop making gen3's because they would take a huge dive. But they also won't admit that they changed too many things on something that wasn't broken, and ruined a good thing.

HK, hasn't made those mistakes, and everything I have bought and fired from them, goes bang every time. EVERY TIME, zero problems. So that is why I pick them over glock every time. But my Gen3 G19 is running pretty well, but it has 5 aftermarket parts in it. My USP45 has a HK45c mag release, and HK Match trigger, all factory parts. And my HK45, is bone stock.


Exactly. Anytime you have to start modifying your stock handgun to make it function properly, you should rethink your purchase.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 2:20:37 PM EDT
If the Glock in question is a pre-4th gen then I'd rather have the Glock.

My 4th gen G17 is currently at Glock USA right now getting a new ejector. This gun has been 100% reliable but almost every empty case it extracts hits me in the face or head. I've tried recoil springs, extractors, and different ammo with no luck. If Glock doesn't fix this thing I am selling it...
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