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Posted: 9/4/2004 6:48:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 6:51:01 AM EST by bob332]
you may or may not remember that i have a 17(rev 2) that would jam all the time. i am talking more than 50%, probably in the neighborhood of 70%. there is an old post that i can't find called glock jamming.

anyway i tried many types of ammo, let other shoot it and had the same results every time. jam, jam, jam.

i ended up sending it back to glock($50 shipping) and they replaced the the extractor and gave me 2 new mags that definately had different followers in them. i have been busy lately and had a friend of mine who has shot glocks without problems(except mine) take it with him when he went shooting. needless to say, it still jams all the time. we have tried atleast 5 different types of ammo ranging from reloads to brand new federal/remington. we have shot it with a firm hold, a loose hold, a death grip hold but still get the same result.

this is a failure to feed problem. i am attaching pics, maybe somebody out there can help me out with what is causing this. i am going to write another letter to glock and express my frustration with this and also let them know that i don't want to send it back againg($50 shipping) because i don't really trust they will fix it.

on the sheet i received from glock telling me what they did, they said they fired it and it tested ok, but i can't imagine that this incident is just mine or my buddies.

we have even picked up the rounds that we had to take out due to a jam and fed them throught a kahr and also taurus without any problems whatsoever.

what gives? i have better things to do with the shipping money than just throw it away.

Pic 1

Pic 2

thanks for your time and expertise
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 7:30:46 AM EST
Maybe try replacing recoil spring? What kind of recoil spring do you have in the gun? I've seen that happen with those laser replacement springs.

When does this jam happen? Loading 1st round into the chamber? Or mid mag?

I would call Glock and tell them that the gun is still not functioning and make them pay shipping both ways back to the factory.



Link Posted: 9/4/2004 7:32:37 AM EST
From the pictures provided, the slide is over riding the the next round in the mag. It could be recoil spring is to strong or to weak. If it to strong the slide could be short stroking, may want to try some +P+ ammo. If the recoil spring is to weak, it would cycle the slide to fast not allowing time for the mag to move the next round up in time. To fix weak recoil spring you could try standard preasure ammo with extra power mag springs. I would also keep talking to Glock about the problems and insist they replace the gun. The Golck 17 is usually one of the most reliable handguns made. Do not let Glock get away with anything less than 100% of your satisfaction.

just my $.02
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 7:33:09 AM EST
the spring is the stock spring and the jamming happens all the time, middle of mag, 2 round, last round
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 7:34:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By moxnix228:
From the pictures provided, the slide is over riding the the next round in the mag. It could be recoil spring is to strong or to weak. If it to strong the slide could be short stroking, may want to try some +P+ ammo. If the recoil spring is to weak, it would cycle the slide to fast not allowing time for the mag to move the next round up in time. To fix weak recoil spring you could try standard preasure ammo with extra power mag springs. I would also keep talking to Glock about the problems and insist they replace the gun. The Golck 17 is usually one of the most reliable handguns made. Do not let Glock get away with anything less than 100% of your satisfaction.

just my $.02



i may try to get a replacement as i will probably never trust this gun. i have read many reports and i feel mine is defiantely a "lemon"
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 7:36:38 AM EST
i also forgot to add that sometimes a round will be sticking straight up
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 8:00:58 AM EST
What brand of ammo are using? Have you tried other brands? Try letting a buddy shooting it, seems to me you maybe limp wristing it.

My old indoor range had a Glock 17 that went 750,000, broke the slide at 500,000. Super reliable.

Good luck, let know what you find out.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 8:34:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By warlord:
What brand of ammo are using? Have you tried other brands? Try letting a buddy shooting it, seems to me you maybe limp wristing it.

My old indoor range had a Glock 17 that went 750,000, broke the slide at 500,000. Super reliable.

Good luck, let know what you find out.



i have tried atleast 5 different typs of ammo and atleast 3 different people that have no problems shooting glocks shoot it. hell, even when i have shot their glocks, i don't have any problems. i am going to give my buddy some of my hydrashocks to see if they work any better, but like others have posted i am going to try to get glock to give me a new pistol, as this one has only about 150 rounds through, since it is so irritating. it has sat in my closet for about 6 years because it just isn't fun to shoot.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 8:40:17 AM EST
FIRST, just try using a friend's G17 mags, or brand new mags if you can. Still jams? I would then: 1) replace the recoil spring (tell Glock you broke yours, they will send a new one for free), 2) have a gunsmith or qualified individual polish your feed ramp and chamber with some jewler's rouge and a dremel bob. Test fire...if it still jams...


THEN, take the slide/bbl assembly off your receiver, and put it on a friend's G17 receiver- make sure to use his mags as well. Then, do the inverse with your receiver- use his slide/bbl on your receiver. This should narrow the problem down a bit, at least you will know which half of the gun is malfunctioning.

If your receiver is causing the jams, then you would be well served to replace ALL innards w/ new Glock factory stuff, such as the ejector (not the extractor, which you have already done), trigger assembly, etc. Glock should provide these free of charge, as long as you tell Tony @ Glock what you've told us already.

If a totally refurbished G17 with new mags refuses to feed anything that you throw at it, I would demmand that Glock replace the entire slide/bbl and/or pistol to your satisfaction. Don't take any shit from Glock- just keep demmanding that they fix your defective product.

Good luck and please tell us how it works out.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 8:45:48 AM EST
Bob,
Forgot to ask:
did you buy this gun used?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 8:55:25 AM EST
no, brand new, still have the original receipt
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 9:02:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By dissipator556:
FIRST, just try using a friend's G17 mags, or brand new mags if you can. Still jams? I would then: 1) replace the recoil spring (tell Glock you broke yours, they will send a new one for free), 2) have a gunsmith or qualified individual polish your feed ramp and chamber with some jewler's rouge and a dremel bob. Test fire...if it still jams...


THEN, take the slide/bbl assembly off your receiver, and put it on a friend's G17 receiver- make sure to use his mags as well. Then, do the inverse with your receiver- use his slide/bbl on your receiver. This should narrow the problem down a bit, at least you will know which half of the gun is malfunctioning.

If your receiver is causing the jams, then you would be well served to replace ALL innards w/ new Glock factory stuff, such as the ejector (not the extractor, which you have already done), trigger assembly, etc. Glock should provide these free of charge, as long as you tell Tony @ Glock what you've told us already.

If a totally refurbished G17 with new mags refuses to feed anything that you throw at it, I would demmand that Glock replace the entire slide/bbl and/or pistol to your satisfaction. Don't take any shit from Glock- just keep demmanding that they fix your defective product.

Good luck and please tell us how it works out.



thanks for the info. i would do this if the gun was originally used, but it was/is new. and the reason i am a little pissed is because it has already been shipped back to glock per tony's instructions. the other problem is most people that i know have the smaller 40s&w and 45s so getting a 17 is a bit of a problem.

i am no glock expert but i have shot many semi 9s before and never had a problem, nor have i had a problem with other glocks i have shot.

i definately appreciate your recommendations but i feel i might try glock again for them to fix the problem, if they don't take care of it then i will try your recommendations. again, my hostility is not toward anybody here but i am just frustrated because i enjoy shooting, but get irritated extremely quick when things that you spend good $$$ on don't work correctly and the factory doesn't take care of it the first time. :)
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 9:04:33 AM EST
I wouldn't take this much further, in that case. I suggest you try doing what I said, maybe even send the bbl to Glock and have THEM polish the feed ramp and chamber for you, if that's more cost effective. I am still curious about what would happen if you swapped 'uppers' with a friend's G17.

Just hope that it's the upper- it's much cheaper to ship, since it isn't a "firearm" by itself. I'm sure that nothing will be resolved today, but keep us posted and don't be afraid to ask for help dealing with tech support.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 9:09:16 AM EST
PS- I miss the days when my old USMC buddy Sgt. XXXX worked for Glock tech services- he would have sent you a brand new gun, along with about $100 worth of free Glock goodies. This Tony guy that works there now is kind of a tight ass with the parts and services- the kind of guy that customers don't always like, but Glock corporate LOVES. He's a tight ass, but a nice guy- I'm sure they will take care of you in the end, and don't be afraid to ask for some extra stuff (holsters, mags, extensions, armorer's tool, hat, knife, Glock light, or whatever) for your trouble.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 9:20:37 AM EST
thanks again for the assistance, i will definately see what i can get from them. i know the type you are talking about, in fact i was kind of surprised that when i received the gun back there was atleast an extra mag in there. maybe since the ban will go away in 10 days, they can hook me up with somt full capacity mags.

thanks again for all your help :)
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 9:35:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 9:39:16 AM EST by Bear_B]
One of my questions woudl be WHO THE HELL ARE YOU SHIPPING IT THRU that charges you $50?

Geeze man, last time I shipped a gun it cost $13 WITH insurance.

I had the exact same problem with my G19, I replaced the mag followers, problem solved.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 9:49:11 AM EST
You keep saying 5 different types. Please be specific. Glocks like hot ammo. Try some 124 grian Golden Saber, 124 grain Speer +p golddots, +p+ 127 grain Ranger rounds. For ball try some Value pack Winchester White box. Are the 5 different types of ammo all 147 grain loads. These loads have a little less energy to work the slide with. If you try 5 different types of crap ammo you will still get crap results. From thepictures it looks like the slide is short stroking. The most common cause for this is underpowered ammo and limp wristing.
Pat
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 10:16:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Glockfan:
You keep saying 5 different types. Please be specific. Glocks like hot ammo. Try some 124 grian Golden Saber, 124 grain Speer +p golddots, +p+ 127 grain Ranger rounds. For ball try some Value pack Winchester White box. Are the 5 different types of ammo all 147 grain loads. These loads have a little less energy to work the slide with. If you try 5 different types of crap ammo you will still get crap results. From thepictures it looks like the slide is short stroking. The most common cause for this is underpowered ammo and limp wristing.
Pat



Could also be underpowered ammo in combination with that stiff NIB recoil spring. I know when I had a G17 it did that. Had to use full power ammo for a few hundred rounds to break it in... then it fed everything I put in it.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 10:54:11 AM EST
for ammo i have used winchester/remington/federal/cci/wolf and some reloaded stuff. like i said i will give my buddy the hydrashoks which i believe are a +p load. i will also order some of the +p golddots that ammoman has and see what that does.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 10:55:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bear_B:
One of my questions woudl be WHO THE HELL ARE YOU SHIPPING IT THRU that charges you $50?

Geeze man, last time I shipped a gun it cost $13 WITH insurance.

I had the exact same problem with my G19, I replaced the mag followers, problem solved.



i shipped it through UPS. they told me since it was a firearm it would need to go next day. i know i got it back from glock via next day air.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:02:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:08:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Looking at your pictures, whats up with all the brass on your breechface?

Based on this pic alone, Id say your slide is cycling faster thas your magazine springs are able to feed the next round. Either that or something is out of spec on the mags.

bfvmaps.sytes.net/glock/jam002.jpg



i really don't know. i got it back from glock, gave it to my buddy and he only put about 2 mags through it because out of the 20 rounds, it jammed atleast 9 times.

i am not sure if the hydroshoks i have are +p as they say "low recoil" on the box. the ballistics are:
veoloctiy @ muzzle: 1050
energy @ muzzle: 330

bullet weight: 135grain


thank you all for all this help :)
does this sound like a +p load or regular one?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:10:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:14:37 AM EST
UNITED STATES MILITARY AMMO U.S.G.I. 9MM 124 GRAIN. M882 ammo considered +p?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:17:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:24:22 AM EST
no. no limp wrist. we have tried everything from a death grip with no movement in the elbows and little to none in the shoulders on down. we have not had problems with other glocks. i will call a couple of gun shops and see if i can get a box of 50 +p to see if that helps before i buy 500 or 1000 rounds.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:31:08 AM EST
Where in AZ are you?

We could meet at Ben Avery sometime and play mix and match with my 17 parts until we figure something out. I have a couple of different slides (17 and 34) we could try on your frame and such.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:35:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Where in AZ are you?

We could meet at Ben Avery sometime and play mix and match with my 17 parts until we figure something out. I have a couple of different slides (17 and 34) we could try on your frame and such.



i am around scottsdale and shea. i appreciate the offer. i am going to get a couple boxes of +p from a local store and see if that does it as far as feeding them correctly. if not i will get in touch with you. thanks again for the offer :)
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:40:26 AM EST
a gun store by me has some "magtek 9mm 115grn +p"

is this stuff any good? i am not familiar with it. at this point i don't care about accuracy, just getting the gun to cycle reliably.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:49:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 11:51:35 AM EST by bob332]
should i go +p or +p+?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 12:02:20 PM EST
I'm at Frank Lloyd Wright and the 101. I'm planning on being at Ben Avery at 7:00 tomorrow morning. Let me know and I'll bring Glocks and parts.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 12:03:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By bob332:
should i go +p or +p+?



The gun should run perfectly on cheap Winchester white box from Walmart. If it doesn't there is a problem.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 12:04:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
I'm at Frank Lloyd Wright and the 101. I'm planning on being at Ben Avery at 7:00 tomorrow morning. Let me know and I'll bring Glocks and parts.



thanks for the offer, but i will not be there as i don't have the gun currently. my buddy has it. again, thank you very much for the offer :)
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 12:34:52 PM EST
How many rounds have been through this gun in it's life time?

Have you made any modifications other than what Glock replaced?

Here's what I would do: clean the hell out of it, find 500-1000 rounds of Winchester 9mm 124gr and hit the range. Don't plan on leaving the range until you've run out of ammo. FTFs and FTEs be damned! I think, if it has a low round count that it needs to be broken in with some hotter ammo. If it has a high round count I would replace the recoil spring with a STOCK GLOCK 17 RECOIL SPRING! No aftermarket crap, replace it with an OEM unit!

If that fails, send the gun to me for proper disposal
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 12:36:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By bob332:
a gun store by me has some "magtek 9mm 115grn +p"

is this stuff any good? i am not familiar with it. at this point i don't care about accuracy, just getting the gun to cycle reliably.



Magtek 9mm 115gr is not +P. It's low grade target ammo. On top of that it's more expensive that good old, reliable Winchester White Box from Wal-Mart!
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 2:31:23 PM EST
it has a very low count as it irritates me when i shoot it. and no i have not done anything with, i really haven't liked it nor trusted it. it just sat in my closet.

i will go get a couple boxes of +p($10/box) and i have a couple hundred rounds here of the white box stuff. if after all this it still jams, do you all think i should ask glock for a repalcement?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:17:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By bob332:
it has a very low count as it irritates me when i shoot it. and no i have not done anything with, i really haven't liked it nor trusted it. it just sat in my closet.

i will go get a couple boxes of +p($10/box) and i have a couple hundred rounds here of the white box stuff. if after all this it still jams, do you all think i should ask glock for a repalcement?



Forget the +p stuff! It's expensive and not necessary for this. When you say very low count are we talking less than 1000 rounds? Less than 500? Less than 100? Give me a ball park. Go find a case or half a case of some good 124gr 9mm. Winchester, Federal, American Eagle or the likes but get 124gr.

I had a similar problem with a new H&K USP9c. I narrowed it down to a tight pistol and ran a whole case of Winchester 124gr through it. Since then it has performed flawlessly. It just needed to be broken in, that's all. Your G17 may be in the same boat. Of course it may be a lemon too. I would get at least 1000 rounds down the barrel before I give up on it.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:10:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bear_B:

Geeze man, last time I shipped a gun it cost $13 WITH insurance.


Last time I shipped a Kahr PM9 through Fedex next day and it was around $36. Who do you use?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:20:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4arc:

Originally Posted By bob332:
it has a very low count as it irritates me when i shoot it. and no i have not done anything with, i really haven't liked it nor trusted it. it just sat in my closet.

i will go get a couple boxes of +p($10/box) and i have a couple hundred rounds here of the white box stuff. if after all this it still jams, do you all think i should ask glock for a repalcement?



Forget the +p stuff! It's expensive and not necessary for this. When you say very low count are we talking less than 1000 rounds? Less than 500? Less than 100? Give me a ball park. Go find a case or half a case of some good 124gr 9mm. Winchester, Federal, American Eagle or the likes but get 124gr.

I had a similar problem with a new H&K USP9c. I narrowed it down to a tight pistol and ran a whole case of Winchester 124gr through it. Since then it has performed flawlessly. It just needed to be broken in, that's all. Your G17 may be in the same boat. Of course it may be a lemon too. I would get at least 1000 rounds down the barrel before I give up on it.



definately less than 200, probably by now just 100-150...
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:22:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By bigkracka:

Originally Posted By Bear_B:

Geeze man, last time I shipped a gun it cost $13 WITH insurance.


Last time I shipped a Kahr PM9 through Fedex next day and it was around $36. Who do you use?



it was a ups store. next time i will go fedex for only $36 (hopefully i will not need to)
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:24:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 4:26:56 PM EST by bob332]
where is the best place to get cheap ammo? ammoman? anywhere else? also why 124gr vs other weights?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:31:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By bob332:
where is the best place to get cheap ammo? ammoman? anywhere else? also why 124gr vs other weights?

Unless you have an Academy Sports nearby you're not beating the Winchester 100rd value packs at Wal Mart.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:53:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By bigkracka:

Originally Posted By bob332:
where is the best place to get cheap ammo? ammoman? anywhere else? also why 124gr vs other weights?

Unless you have an Academy Sports nearby you're not beating the Winchester 100rd value packs at Wal Mart.



i have some of that, mine is 115gr, do they offer it in 124?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 5:13:19 PM EST
bob332,

Your Glock should run on all commercial FMJ ammo made and almost every commercial hollowpoint ammo made. Hunting for different ammo isn't solving your problem.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 5:58:24 PM EST
i have about 250 rounds here. next time i go, i will just take that out and shoot till it is gone. if it doesn't start to get better back to glock it goes.

thanks for all the info.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 2:02:26 PM EST
Let us know what happens.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:05:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
bob332,

Your Glock should run on all commercial FMJ ammo made and almost every commercial hollowpoint ammo made. Hunting for different ammo isn't solving your problem.



I agree but I've also had issues with a new handgun being very tight. Before you (and others) convinced me to try a Glock I had a similar issue where my H&K USP9c failed 70 out of 100 times if I ran 115gr ammo. Zero failures running 124 & 147gr. After running a case of 124gr through it to help "break it in" it has been perfect. I'm not saying that is the case here but it's worth a try. Heck, even my new Glock 17 (yes I have two Glocks now ) seemed a little tight for the first few hundred rounds. It's starting to loosen up some but it was definately tighter than my G19.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:06:53 PM EST
For the last year or so new Glock's have defenitely been tighter.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 10:32:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By bigkracka:
For the last year or so new Glock's have defenitely been tighter.



this is an older glock, i think i bought it in97-98...
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 5:48:57 PM EST
also, i need to add that cycling the gun by hand works fine and everything extracts and loads as it should. i am hoping it is just "too tight" so i can get beyond this. thanks again everybody for all the assistance. :)
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 4:17:15 PM EST
looks like we may have turned the corner in the right direction with this thing. with my schedule so busy i gave it back to my friend who shoots quite often and game him the 250 rounds. he knows this gun's history as he has fired it in the past. he went ahead and pulled the slide back and left it open for a couple days and then took it out to shoot. he said he had a couple of jams in the beginning of shooting the first couple mags, then was able to shoot 100+ rounds without a hiccup. ;) we are waiting for some +p we ordered, but it looks as though it is loosening up and that might have been the the problem.

i also contacted glock and received verification from them that shooting +p is no problem with their weapons.

thanks again for all the suggestions and offers to help me out with this, this is an excellent forum :)

i will keep you updated after the +ps are shot :)
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