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Posted: 9/18/2015 11:50:22 AM EDT
I fall in love with optics on my pistols. Got them on my .22 and my M&P Core. Since I shoot Glocks more, I figure the next best thing is to mill the ones that I shoot the most. I figured slide milling is not a new thing and if anything, Glock slide milling should be common place by now. So I sent my beloved Glock 19 & 34 gen4 slide to a gunsmith I found on this site for the work.
Got them back yesterday and it looks pretty good. A bit deep than I thought, but looks straight and steady. Then I started to assemble: I can't get the slide on the frame! I applied force, more than I should, and it went on. But the trigger won't work. Taking it down was a PITA because of said issue. Then I looked deeper and it appears that the gunsmith milled through the plunger channel and now it is exposed to air. I can see the bottom of the optics mounted on top. As such, it is preventing the plunger from recessing fulling into the slide as it should. I provided the gunsmith with video and pictures. The gunsmith wants me to send the slides back so that "he can take a look". He said he does this all the time and he personally have used them without issue. After this, I don't want any fix he has in mind. My proposal is for him to send me two OEM un-molested slides + refund me the cost in full + pay for return shipping so that I can return the two milled slides back to him for him to do as he pleases. I don't think what I am asking is unreasonable, am I? Oh, the G34 slide cut is just as deep and have the same issue. I will take pictures later. I can only take so much a day. 
This is as deep as the plunger will go under pressure 
The gap you see is the curvature of the Burris FFIII 
Yep, the right screw holes went through the channel for the plunger safety spring hole. When I shine my light through that channel, I can see light. 
UPDATE: The shop's name is: Tooth and Nail Armory 18577 Hwy K Versailles, MO 65084 Matt Loganbill & Joshua Loganbill [email protected] 573-378-3393 or 9070 |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 11:55:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Have you compared it to a factory RMR cut? That looks way too deep!
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Posted: 9/18/2015 12:04:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Good luck. What's his fix - shave the plunger down? Ask him if he's accepting liability for modifying a safety feature from the stock pistol.
Edit after new pics: He didn't even refinish the cut? It's already rusting. You got bubba'd bud. Dude owes you some new guns. Slides at least, but good luck collecting. |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 12:32:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You got bubba'd bud. Dude owes you some new guns. Slides at least, but good luck collecting. +1. Sorry, man. |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 12:43:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Should have sent one for a test before sending both.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 1:16:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Wow. That looks like hell. I feel bad for you. Whoever did that did a horrendous job. Didn't even take the time to match the contour of the sight, just milled it straight. It looks like they did it on a manual mill with an end mill that is wayyyyyyyyyy past due for a changing. From the pics, they also didn't mill the optic very tight. You want the optic to fit in there very snug if you aren't milling bosses. The steel screws have been reported to sheer from the g forces of the slide if the pocket isn't milled tightly in front and behind the optic. When we mill slides, you literally have to work the sight just a tad for it to fit in the pocket.
This is what we do all our slide lightening and red dot milling on: 
Those pics are painful to look at. |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 4:27:32 PM EDT
[#7]
You didn't sent it to Doug at ATEi why?
Hopefully that guy gets you new slides and you can go on with life. |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 8:19:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I machine my fair share of these, so I'll just throw a couple of comments out there without intent to speak ill will of the machinist: 1) The screw on the right almost always breaks into the plunger channel, which isn't the problem. The screw in that location does need to be short enough to make sure you can still disassemble the pistol and get the plunger out. How can I tell? I had to use excessive force to put the slid on the frame. Once on, trigger does not work. And take down also requires brute force. <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/IMAG1482.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/IMAG1482.jpg</a> 2) The dimensions of the Burris must be quite a bit bigger than the Trijicon RMR because while I've come close to the pin safety pocket I've never ever broke into it. The front of that pocket follows the curved front contour of the RMR to help prevent that. Yes, the Burris FFIII is longer. <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/IMAG1486.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/IMAG1486.jpg</a> If you compare this photo to yours you can clearly see the Burris is either longer, or the pocket started too far forward of the rear sight. <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/IMAG1489.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/IMAG1489.jpg</a> 3) Who determined the height of the optic/depth of cut? Mine are typically shallower than that and line up with suppressor height sights only. He never asked me for the depth/height. But I did tell him that he can take out the rear sight and mill from there. Which he obviously did not. 4) Don't knock the guy for not refinishing the cut area. I offer those services (and even just blueing) and have had customers request I leave it as is and they will "take care of it themselves." The price including finishing the milled area. Obviously, it was not finished as promised. 5) I make sure that the customer provides the optic with the slide for a few reasons: I sent two Burris FFIII along with the slides to the gunsmith. He claims to prefer FFIII over others. A) I model it up and make sure I won't run into any issues like you are seeing (especially if it's an optic I haven't used before). <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/Glock%2026%20RMR06.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/Glock%2026%20RMR06.jpg</a> B) I make sure the fit is as tight as possible between optic and slide pocket. Those are the things/questions I think of. I'm sorry to see you experiencing these problems, it's quite a bummer!!! If you have any interest in sending me a few dimensions of the Burris I could throw it in one of my models and give you a better look/opinion on it like I have shown above on that 26 with the RMR. According to my digital caliper, Burris FFIII has length of 47.56mm/1.8725'', and width of 26.33mm/1.0365" -Matt Quote HistoryQuoted:
I machine my fair share of these, so I'll just throw a couple of comments out there without intent to speak ill will of the machinist: 1) The screw on the right almost always breaks into the plunger channel, which isn't the problem. The screw in that location does need to be short enough to make sure you can still disassemble the pistol and get the plunger out. How can I tell? I had to use excessive force to put the slid on the frame. Once on, trigger does not work. And take down also requires brute force. <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/IMAG1482.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/IMAG1482.jpg</a> 2) The dimensions of the Burris must be quite a bit bigger than the Trijicon RMR because while I've come close to the pin safety pocket I've never ever broke into it. The front of that pocket follows the curved front contour of the RMR to help prevent that. Yes, the Burris FFIII is longer. <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/IMAG1486.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/IMAG1486.jpg</a> If you compare this photo to yours you can clearly see the Burris is either longer, or the pocket started too far forward of the rear sight. <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/IMAG1489.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/IMAG1489.jpg</a> 3) Who determined the height of the optic/depth of cut? Mine are typically shallower than that and line up with suppressor height sights only. He never asked me for the depth/height. But I did tell him that he can take out the rear sight and mill from there. Which he obviously did not. 4) Don't knock the guy for not refinishing the cut area. I offer those services (and even just blueing) and have had customers request I leave it as is and they will "take care of it themselves." The price including finishing the milled area. Obviously, it was not finished as promised. 5) I make sure that the customer provides the optic with the slide for a few reasons: I sent two Burris FFIII along with the slides to the gunsmith. He claims to prefer FFIII over others. A) I model it up and make sure I won't run into any issues like you are seeing (especially if it's an optic I haven't used before). <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/Glock%2026%20RMR06.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/Glock%2026%20RMR06.jpg</a> B) I make sure the fit is as tight as possible between optic and slide pocket. Those are the things/questions I think of. I'm sorry to see you experiencing these problems, it's quite a bummer!!! If you have any interest in sending me a few dimensions of the Burris I could throw it in one of my models and give you a better look/opinion on it like I have shown above on that 26 with the RMR. According to my digital caliper, Burris FFIII has length of 47.56mm/1.8725'', and width of 26.33mm/1.0365" -Matt This is his reply today. Send them back, I will test the slides on several frames we have here. If there is a problem with function, we can deal with that at that time.
There is no safety issue with milling the slides in this manner, we have Glocks with over 10,000 rounds done exactly like yours. We almost exclusively do work for competition shooters who shoot thousands of rounds per year, we have not had a single one with problems. I don't like his "if there is problem with function". Why could he not check with his frames before? Why did not finish the milled area as promised. The 1/2 exposed plunger channel is not a dead give away? I don't see how he can fixed that breached plunger channel. It is not like gen4 slides are easy to come by. |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 9:05:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Sucks to get put in this situation, hope you can get it resolved. Yeah I'd say he owes you new slides, that looks horrible. Interested to hear who did the machining.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow. That looks like hell. I feel bad for you. Whoever did that did a horrendous job. Didn't even take the time to match the contour of the sight, just milled it straight. It looks like they did it on a manual mill with an end mill that is wayyyyyyyyyy past due for a changing. From the pics, they also didn't mill the optic very tight. You want the optic to fit in there very snug if you aren't milling bosses. The steel screws have been reported to sheer from the g forces of the slide if the pocket isn't milled tightly in front and behind the optic. . This. Even if he can get the firing pin safety working you're likely to have problems with the poorly fit machining. You definitely do not want the force to be on the screws like that. |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 9:12:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is his reply today. I don't like his "if there is problem with function". Why could he not check with his frames before? Why did not finish the milled area as promised. The 1/2 exposed plunger channel is not a dead give away? I don't see how he can fixed that breached plunger channel. It is not like gen4 slides are easy to come by. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I machine my fair share of these, so I'll just throw a couple of comments out there without intent to speak ill will of the machinist: 1) The screw on the right almost always breaks into the plunger channel, which isn't the problem. The screw in that location does need to be short enough to make sure you can still disassemble the pistol and get the plunger out. How can I tell? I had to use excessive force to put the slid on the frame. Once on, trigger does not work. And take down also requires brute force. <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/IMAG1482.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/IMAG1482.jpg</a> 2) The dimensions of the Burris must be quite a bit bigger than the Trijicon RMR because while I've come close to the pin safety pocket I've never ever broke into it. The front of that pocket follows the curved front contour of the RMR to help prevent that. Yes, the Burris FFIII is longer. <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/IMAG1486.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/IMAG1486.jpg</a> If you compare this photo to yours you can clearly see the Burris is either longer, or the pocket started too far forward of the rear sight. <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/IMAG1489.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/IMAG1489.jpg</a> 3) Who determined the height of the optic/depth of cut? Mine are typically shallower than that and line up with suppressor height sights only. He never asked me for the depth/height. But I did tell him that he can take out the rear sight and mill from there. Which he obviously did not. 4) Don't knock the guy for not refinishing the cut area. I offer those services (and even just blueing) and have had customers request I leave it as is and they will "take care of it themselves." The price including finishing the milled area. Obviously, it was not finished as promised. 5) I make sure that the customer provides the optic with the slide for a few reasons: I sent two Burris FFIII along with the slides to the gunsmith. He claims to prefer FFIII over others. A) I model it up and make sure I won't run into any issues like you are seeing (especially if it's an optic I haven't used before). <a href="http://s417.photobucket.com/user/mattsdrag95/media/Glock%2026%20RMR06.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/mattsdrag95/Glock%2026%20RMR06.jpg</a> B) I make sure the fit is as tight as possible between optic and slide pocket. Those are the things/questions I think of. I'm sorry to see you experiencing these problems, it's quite a bummer!!! If you have any interest in sending me a few dimensions of the Burris I could throw it in one of my models and give you a better look/opinion on it like I have shown above on that 26 with the RMR. According to my digital caliper, Burris FFIII has length of 47.56mm/1.8725'', and width of 26.33mm/1.0365" -Matt This is his reply today. Send them back, I will test the slides on several frames we have here. If there is a problem with function, we can deal with that at that time.
There is no safety issue with milling the slides in this manner, we have Glocks with over 10,000 rounds done exactly like yours. We almost exclusively do work for competition shooters who shoot thousands of rounds per year, we have not had a single one with problems. I don't like his "if there is problem with function". Why could he not check with his frames before? Why did not finish the milled area as promised. The 1/2 exposed plunger channel is not a dead give away? I don't see how he can fixed that breached plunger channel. It is not like gen4 slides are easy to come by. I can't think of anyone at all, let alone a serious competition shooter, who would accept that level of work. There's just nothing right about in any way, shape, or form. What's sad is what he did simply cannot be fixed short of him replacing your slides. |
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Posted: 9/19/2015 12:28:17 AM EDT
[#11]
The whole point of milling a slide is a custom fit. The optic and slide should appear seamless. Did he know what optic you were planning to use? Because your pics look like
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Posted: 9/19/2015 1:11:26 PM EDT
[#12]
1) The screw on the right almost always breaks into the plunger channel, which isn't the problem. The screw in that location does need to be short enough to make sure you can still disassemble the pistol and get the plunger out. How can I tell? I had to use excessive force to put the slid on the frame. Once on, trigger does not work. And take down also requires brute force. If you pull the back cover off the slide can you move the plunger at all? Can you remove the plunger? It should not require force to assemble or disassemble slide and frame. 3) Who determined the height of the optic/depth of cut? Mine are typically shallower than that and line up with suppressor height sights only. He never asked me for the depth/height. But I did tell him that he can take out the rear sight and mill from there. Which he obviously did not. If the Burris is longer than the rmr that would have been the ONLY way I would have done it. I refuse to cut into the fireing pin safety pocket. 4) Don't knock the guy for not refinishing the cut area. I offer those services (and even just blueing) and have had customers request I leave it as is and they will "take care of it themselves." The price including finishing the milled area. Obviously, it was not finished as promised. ok, NOW they can knock the guy for not following directions! Lol From where I'm sitting it sounds like the firing pin safety is hitting the underside of the optic, preventing it from travelling as far as it needs to to release the firing pin. This obviously creates problems during assembly and disassembly. Again...I would NEVER cut into the firing pin safety pocket. You may be able to Mickey mouse a gun to work like that, but that doesn't mean it's right. |
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Posted: 9/19/2015 1:25:07 PM EDT
[#13]
OP can you pm the name of this smith so I never accidentally use him?
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Posted: 9/19/2015 1:28:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't like his "if there is problem with function". Why could he not check with his frames before? Why did not finish the milled area as promised. The 1/2 exposed plunger channel is not a dead give away? I don't see how he can fixed that breached plunger channel. It is not like gen4 slides are easy to come by. if he knew what he was doing he wouldnt need to "check with his frames before." This is pretty basic. You telll him what optic you will use, he mills your slide to fit that optic. When you say gunsmith you found on here do you mean someone here recommended someone or a vender/site sponsor? |
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Posted: 9/19/2015 1:49:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP can you pm the name of this smith so I never accidentally use him? This! I'm sorry but everyone here, including myself, sees the obvious poor quality of the work. There is nothing wrong with naming the smith especially so others can be aware and make better choices. |
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Posted: 9/19/2015 4:41:15 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm beginning to see why Glock moved the rear sight back for the MOS system. Not everyone is going to mount an RMR.
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Posted: 9/19/2015 5:04:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Who did it?
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Posted: 9/19/2015 5:07:57 PM EDT
[#18]
He has one more day. After that, I will out him on every site I can find.
After this fiasco, I did quite a bit of research online, which I should have done beforehand, and no reputable shops cuts that deep that far ahead. Instead of incurring the cost of sending them back for you to try to fix them, here is my proposal:
1. You send me two bare OEM Glock 19 & 34 gen4 slides, un-molested, in comparable condition to my slides to me. I can provide you with copy of purchase date and pictures for condition. I would like to have the slides within 7 business days. Since you are a gunsmith, you have more ways to acquire them than I. 2. Refund me the milling cost I paid: $184.61 immediately. 3. And send me a pre-paid USPS priority mail label (or $6) to cover the return shipping. I will use it to send the two milled slide to you in exchange. You can do whatever fix you have in mind to them. I will eat the initial shipping cost, and I will even endure the fact that the new slide will not match my pistols in serial. I will take that as a fee for lesson learned. My offer is sincere and fair. Please consider it and get back to me within 2 days. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 10:43:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Deadline past and nothing. I've posted the shop's information as a warning to all. In the mean time, if any of you know of anyone who is selling a gen4 Glock 19 or 34 slide, I would appreciate it if you can let me know. Thanks.
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Posted: 9/20/2015 10:56:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Deadline past and nothing. I've posted the shop's information as a warning to all. In the mean time, if any of you know of anyone who is selling a gen4 Glock 19 or 34 slide, I would appreciate it if you can let me know. Thanks. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 10:59:41 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Deadline past and nothing. I've posted the shop's information as a warning to all. In the mean time, if any of you know of anyone who is selling a gen4 Glock 19 or 34 slide, I would appreciate it if you can let me know. Thanks. This is your best bet for slides - then sell the barrels for about $100 each. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=508812478 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=508806592 Not to run salt in the wound, but if you researched and found this guy here, how did you not come across ATEi or L&M Precision first? Both, who are reputable and who's reviews here should have overshadowed the guy you went with, in any research. Did you use that guy because his lead time was faster? Lower prices? Just curious. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 11:25:58 AM EDT
[#22]
If this could actually be fixed I'd fix it for you free of charge just because I feel so bad for you. Sadly, the only fix is a new slide. If the guy ever decides to make it right and replace your slides, shoot me a PM. I'd like to make sure your new slides get done RIGHT!
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Posted: 9/20/2015 11:26:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Put the pictures up on their Facebook. For something like this they need to be publicly called out
https://www.facebook.com/ToothAndNailArmory |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 11:27:22 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm beginning to see why Glock moved the rear sight back for the MOS system. Not everyone is going to mount an RMR. That's actually not the problem. The shop that milled it was just too lazy to ensure they didn't mill it too deep to go into the safety plunger recess. If they had listened to their customers request to mill out the rear sight dovetail when they milled for the optic they would have never had the issue in the first place. Simple things like that are why we tell our guys that attention to detail is paramount. When you're dealing with someone's slide, frame, barrel, etc, you get one shot. This isn't a part you're running out of 6061 that if you scrap it's no big deal, you jig another piece of billet and go again. It's mind blowing to me that a shop would even let thst kind of quality go out the door. Someone would lose their job in our shop if they let that kind of work go to a customer. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 11:39:06 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If this could actually be fixed I'd fix it for you free of charge just because I feel so bad for you. Sadly, the only fix is a new slide. If the guy ever decides to make it right and replace your slides, shoot me a PM. I'd like to make sure your new slides get done RIGHT! 
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Posted: 9/20/2015 11:40:16 AM EDT
[#26]
Holy shit! I could do better with a pawn shop hacksaw and a bottle of Jack.
Hope he makes it right OP |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 11:46:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's actually not the problem. The shop that milled it was just too lazy to ensure they didn't mill it too deep to go into the safety plunger recess. If they had listened to their customers request to mill out the rear sight dovetail when they milled for the optic they would have never had the issue in the first place. Simple things like that are why we tell our guys that attention to detail is paramount. When you're dealing with someone's slide, frame, barrel, etc, you get one shot. This isn't a part you're running out of 6061 that if you scrap it's no big deal, you jig another piece of billet and go again. It's mind blowing to me that a shop would even let thst kind of quality go out the door. Someone would lose their job in our shop if they let that kind of work go to a customer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm beginning to see why Glock moved the rear sight back for the MOS system. Not everyone is going to mount an RMR. That's actually not the problem. The shop that milled it was just too lazy to ensure they didn't mill it too deep to go into the safety plunger recess. If they had listened to their customers request to mill out the rear sight dovetail when they milled for the optic they would have never had the issue in the first place. Simple things like that are why we tell our guys that attention to detail is paramount. When you're dealing with someone's slide, frame, barrel, etc, you get one shot. This isn't a part you're running out of 6061 that if you scrap it's no big deal, you jig another piece of billet and go again. It's mind blowing to me that a shop would even let thst kind of quality go out the door. Someone would lose their job in our shop if they let that kind of work go to a customer. AND, once called on the shoddy workmanship, they didn't do squat to make the customer whole again. They deserve and have earned every single bit of bad publicity that comes their way over this fiasco. The old, "you didn't give us enough time to fix this for you, we would have." Isn't going to fly. This is very bad juju. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 11:50:31 AM EDT
[#28]
Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then.
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Posted: 9/20/2015 11:52:39 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. The bottom line is it should never ever have left their shop and been returned to the customer like that. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 11:55:51 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bottom line is it should never ever have left their shop and been returned to the customer like that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. The bottom line is it should never ever have left their shop and been returned to the customer like that. Not disputing that. But maybe a little over reaction being the weekend. Not everyone works all weekend. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 11:58:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If this could actually be fixed I'd fix it for you free of charge just because I feel so bad for you. Sadly, the only fix is a new slide. If the guy ever decides to make it right and replace your slides, shoot me a PM. I'd like to make sure your new slides get done RIGHT! Thank you for the kind offer. When I do get my slides, I plan to have them milled, properly. I won't let a bad shop ruin my desire to have optics on my pistol. And yes, I chose this shop because they claim to have fast lead time, experience/preference in milling with Burris FFIII (which I prefer over other RMR), and rates. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 12:10:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. I am plenty chill. My correspondence with the shop has been nothing but cordial. My resolution offer is reasonable and fair. Yet the shop not only not admit their error, they insist I send them back "to check for function" and then "go from there". Extremely vague. I insisted on him telling me what method he intent to "make it right" and he never answered that question. I have provided them enough video, photos, and measurement of the cut to the plunger channel from my digital caliper to demonstrate the issue. It does not take an experienced gunsmith to see the magnitude of the problem. Not only that, it is obvious that the milling was done poorly and the milled area was not even treated/painted as per our agreement. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 12:15:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am plenty chill. My correspondence with the shop has been nothing but cordial. My resolution offer is reasonable and fair. Yet the shop not only not admit their error, they insist I send them back "to check for function" and then "go from there". Extremely vague. I insisted on him telling me what method he intent to "make it right" and he never answered that question. I have provided them enough video, photos, and measurement of the cut to the plunger channel from my digital caliper to demonstrate the issue. It does not take an experienced gunsmith to see the magnitude of the problem. Not only that, it is obvious that the milling was done poorly and the milled area was not even treated/painted as per our agreement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. I am plenty chill. My correspondence with the shop has been nothing but cordial. My resolution offer is reasonable and fair. Yet the shop not only not admit their error, they insist I send them back "to check for function" and then "go from there". Extremely vague. I insisted on him telling me what method he intent to "make it right" and he never answered that question. I have provided them enough video, photos, and measurement of the cut to the plunger channel from my digital caliper to demonstrate the issue. It does not take an experienced gunsmith to see the magnitude of the problem. Not only that, it is obvious that the milling was done poorly and the milled area was not even treated/painted as per our agreement. Send the slides back. What do you have to lose? |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 12:39:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not disputing that. But maybe a little over reaction being the weekend. Not everyone works all weekend. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. The bottom line is it should never ever have left their shop and been returned to the customer like that. Not disputing that. But maybe a little over reaction being the weekend. Not everyone works all weekend. How would your react to someone destroying two of your guns and being unresponsive and curt. You need a reality check bruh. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 12:40:17 PM EDT
[#35]
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Overreaction? How would your react to someone destroying two of your guns and being unresponsive and curt. You need a reality check bruh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. The bottom line is it should never ever have left their shop and been returned to the customer like that. Not disputing that. But maybe a little over reaction being the weekend. Not everyone works all weekend. How would your react to someone destroying two of your guns and being unresponsive and curt. You need a reality check bruh. I wouldn't have cried on the internet about it..... Bruh? Is that how I should say it. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 12:42:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't have cried on the internet about it..... Bruh? Is that how I should say it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. The bottom line is it should never ever have left their shop and been returned to the customer like that. Not disputing that. But maybe a little over reaction being the weekend. Not everyone works all weekend. How would your react to someone destroying two of your guns and being unresponsive and curt. You need a reality check bruh. I wouldn't have cried on the internet about it..... Bruh? Is that how I should say it. What's with people today? And before you call me a 14er I don't give a shit how many posts you have or when you joined. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 12:56:05 PM EDT
[#37]
If this was 3 months into the endeavor with no resolution then yes I agree. Let's talk about it and such but this is new and there hasn't been an opportunity afforded to make it right. And as far as the 14er comment. I could give a fuck less when you join and its comments like that make people think the whole 14er mentality. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 12:58:18 PM EDT
[#38]
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Not disputing that. But maybe a little over reaction being the weekend. Not everyone works all weekend. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. The bottom line is it should never ever have left their shop and been returned to the customer like that. Not disputing that. But maybe a little over reaction being the weekend. Not everyone works all weekend. Since you live in the same state, can you go knock on their door and hand them a clue? |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 1:00:50 PM EDT
[#39]
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Send the slides back. What do you have to lose? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. I am plenty chill. My correspondence with the shop has been nothing but cordial. My resolution offer is reasonable and fair. Yet the shop not only not admit their error, they insist I send them back "to check for function" and then "go from there". Extremely vague. I insisted on him telling me what method he intent to "make it right" and he never answered that question. I have provided them enough video, photos, and measurement of the cut to the plunger channel from my digital caliper to demonstrate the issue. It does not take an experienced gunsmith to see the magnitude of the problem. Not only that, it is obvious that the milling was done poorly and the milled area was not even treated/painted as per our agreement. Send the slides back. What do you have to lose? I'll bet they shorten the plunger to make it "work" its not like they are going to put metal back. Though they may be shady enough to try. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 1:02:06 PM EDT
[#40]
OP you gave the company 2 days (which happened to be the weekend) to fix it? I understand you're upset but that's unreasonable. Send the slides back and see what they say. Good lord. Tooth and nail has been around here and always seemed to be good people.
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Posted: 9/20/2015 1:04:41 PM EDT
[#41]
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I'll bet they shorten the plunger to make it "work" its not like they are going to put metal back. Though they may be shady enough to try. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. I am plenty chill. My correspondence with the shop has been nothing but cordial. My resolution offer is reasonable and fair. Yet the shop not only not admit their error, they insist I send them back "to check for function" and then "go from there". Extremely vague. I insisted on him telling me what method he intent to "make it right" and he never answered that question. I have provided them enough video, photos, and measurement of the cut to the plunger channel from my digital caliper to demonstrate the issue. It does not take an experienced gunsmith to see the magnitude of the problem. Not only that, it is obvious that the milling was done poorly and the milled area was not even treated/painted as per our agreement. Send the slides back. What do you have to lose? I'll bet they shorten the plunger to make it "work" its not like they are going to put metal back. Though they may be shady enough to try. Holy shit. Some of you are ridiculous. The company has done nothing to appear "shady". God forbid they have the weekend off. If they got the slides back and tried to give OP the run around, that's one thing. They haven't even gotten the opportunity to look at it. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 1:06:05 PM EDT
[#42]
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Since you live in the same state, can you go knock on their door and hand them a clue? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. The bottom line is it should never ever have left their shop and been returned to the customer like that. Not disputing that. But maybe a little over reaction being the weekend. Not everyone works all weekend. Since you live in the same state, can you go knock on their door and hand them a clue? I've already messaged them to this thread. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 1:08:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've already messaged them to this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. The bottom line is it should never ever have left their shop and been returned to the customer like that. Not disputing that. But maybe a little over reaction being the weekend. Not everyone works all weekend. Since you live in the same state, can you go knock on their door and hand them a clue? I've already messaged them to this thread. Ask them if Michael J. Fox has been apprenticing there |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 1:09:06 PM EDT
[#44]
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Holy shit. Some of you are ridiculous. The company has done nothing to appear "shady". God forbid they have the weekend off. If they got the slides back and tried to give OP the run around, that's one thing. They haven't even gotten the opportunity to look at it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and wait till Monday when they actually get back into the shop and work it out then. I am plenty chill. My correspondence with the shop has been nothing but cordial. My resolution offer is reasonable and fair. Yet the shop not only not admit their error, they insist I send them back "to check for function" and then "go from there". Extremely vague. I insisted on him telling me what method he intent to "make it right" and he never answered that question. I have provided them enough video, photos, and measurement of the cut to the plunger channel from my digital caliper to demonstrate the issue. It does not take an experienced gunsmith to see the magnitude of the problem. Not only that, it is obvious that the milling was done poorly and the milled area was not even treated/painted as per our agreement. Send the slides back. What do you have to lose? I'll bet they shorten the plunger to make it "work" its not like they are going to put metal back. Though they may be shady enough to try. Holy shit. Some of you are ridiculous. The company has done nothing to appear "shady". God forbid they have the weekend off. If they got the slides back and tried to give OP the run around, that's one thing. They haven't even gotten the opportunity to look at it. They blew it with their first and only response. Which was "send them back" when the pics show the slides are ruined. Actually they blew it when they let that work leave the shop. Sounds like these guys are friends of yours? |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 1:09:18 PM EDT
[#45]
OP, I understand your frustration, but issuing ultimatums rarely works. Give it a week. Some people don't do work or check email on the weekend.
Try to be reasonable, even through your frustration. For the record, Toothandnail is a member here. You might send him a link to this thread via PM so that he can respond. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 1:11:47 PM EDT
[#46]
I know them yes. But I would react in the same fashion if this were another company.
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Posted: 9/20/2015 1:12:48 PM EDT
[#47]
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Holy shit. Some of you are ridiculous. The company has done nothing to appear "shady". God forbid they have the weekend off. If they got the slides back and tried to give OP the run around, that's one thing. They haven't even gotten the opportunity to look at it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Holy shit. Some of you are ridiculous. The company has done nothing to appear "shady". God forbid they have the weekend off. If they got the slides back and tried to give OP the run around, that's one thing. They haven't even gotten the opportunity to look at it. Should that work have left the shop? Yes or no? When provided photo evidence of the unacceptable work was their reaction of something to the effect of "Herr Derr no one else has ever complained but send them back and we will look at them" appropriate? Or would a better reaction had been, Shit, we screwed up, what kind of replacement slides would you like? I provided the gunsmith with video and pictures. The gunsmith wants me to send the slides back so that "he can take a look". He said he does this all the time and he personally have used them without issue. We can all take a look from here and see those slides are trashed. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 1:32:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Wow, interesting. As soon as I posted the name of the shop, people came to their defense. Prior to that, none. If the shop stands behind their work, a few pictures would not hurt, right? Truth is an absolute defense.
To those of you who want me to wait, have you any idea how much of this ordeal weighs on me? I blame myself and the gun shop. I do not want this to occupy my mind anymore than it should. That is why I want this resolved ASAP. Oh, I give the resolution to the shop on Thursday. While the shop may be closed on weekends, emails don't. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 1:43:30 PM EDT
[#49]
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Oh, I give the resolution to the shop on Thursday. While the shop may be closed on weekends, emails don't. What day did you make them aware of the problem by providing pictures? Am I correct to assume that was prior to Thursday? ETA: I see that simply buying new Gen4 guns is not an option for you. The people here that think it's no big deal dont realize that you cannot replace those guns for any amount of money. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 2:00:31 PM EDT
[#50]
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Should that work have left the shop? Yes or no? When provided photo evidence of the unacceptable work was their reaction of something to the effect of "Herr Derr no one else has ever complained but send them back and we will look at them" appropriate? Or would a better reaction had been, Shit, we screwed up, what kind of replacement slides would you like? We can all take a look from here and see those slides are trashed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Holy shit. Some of you are ridiculous. The company has done nothing to appear "shady". God forbid they have the weekend off. If they got the slides back and tried to give OP the run around, that's one thing. They haven't even gotten the opportunity to look at it. Should that work have left the shop? Yes or no? When provided photo evidence of the unacceptable work was their reaction of something to the effect of "Herr Derr no one else has ever complained but send them back and we will look at them" appropriate? Or would a better reaction had been, Shit, we screwed up, what kind of replacement slides would you like? I provided the gunsmith with video and pictures. The gunsmith wants me to send the slides back so that "he can take a look". He said he does this all the time and he personally have used them without issue. We can all take a look from here and see those slides are trashed. When you purchase a new car that takes a shit, does the company immediately give you a new one and have you keep the old one? No. You take it back, they inspect what went wrong and then proceed from there. I don't know the company personally nor have I ever purchased from them but some of you are absolutely nuts with your demands. |
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