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Link Posted: 4/20/2019 1:24:36 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
MecGar pioneered thinner followers and tapered springs.  They were the ones that made flush fit 15rd Sig 228 mags and 18rd Beretta 92 and Sig 226 mags.  So yes, adding more capacity to existing guns is something they do.  They wouldn't even need to innovate anything for a G48 mag, just adapt their existing mag tube to fit.
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Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By Uberphlubb:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By infectedorganism:
Originally Posted By Veprz:
If..they are as reliable as oem.
Has ANY aftermarket magazine been able to make that claim?
PMags (AR, not Glock) and Mec-Gar.
To be fair, Mec-gar doesn't innovate mags, they adapt existing, proven designs for new guns.  PMag genuinely engineers new things from the ground up.

I don't see Mec-gar attempting anything like this for glock, Mec-gar's game is ultra reliability with the point of earning OEM for most gun manufacturers.  They don't screw around with gimmicks like this 15 round G48 mag.
MecGar pioneered thinner followers and tapered springs.  They were the ones that made flush fit 15rd Sig 228 mags and 18rd Beretta 92 and Sig 226 mags.  So yes, adding more capacity to existing guns is something they do.  They wouldn't even need to innovate anything for a G48 mag, just adapt their existing mag tube to fit.
Fitting 1-2 extra rounds with shorter followers and extending the mag body a quarter inch outside the frame of the gun isn't the same thing as engineering an entirely new magazine from scratch.  I shouldn't even have to make this reply.
Link Posted: 4/20/2019 8:01:42 AM EST
Stop arguing.  The POINT is, we know the B92/Cz75/Sig mag body fits the frame, now if someone will just spend an hour with a Dremel and some makeshift shims and make the thing work.  Then show us pics...
Link Posted: 4/20/2019 8:06:57 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Uberphlubb:

Fitting 1-2 extra rounds with shorter followers and extending the mag body a quarter inch outside the frame of the gun isn't the same thing as engineering an entirely new magazine from scratch.  I shouldn't even have to make this reply.
View Quote
Again, it's not an entirely new magazine.  Their existing design already fits.  They'd need to tweak the mag catch slot and the length of the tube, that's it.  It's not magic or even particularly innovative.
Link Posted: 4/20/2019 8:08:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DCopp:
Stop arguing.  The POINT is, we know the B92/Cz75/Sig mag body fits the frame, now if someone will just spend an hour with a Dremel and some makeshift shims and make the thing work.  Then show us pics...
View Quote
I'm going to hit up some shops today and see if the 48 is approved for sale here yet.  If it is I'll get one and make it work.
Link Posted: 4/20/2019 8:36:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/20/2019 2:06:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
I'm going to hit up some shops today and see if the 48 is approved for sale here yet.  If it is I'll get one and make it work.
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Thanks Josh
Link Posted: 4/20/2019 2:57:10 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DCopp:
Thanks Josh
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Originally Posted By DCopp:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
I'm going to hit up some shops today and see if the 48 is approved for sale here yet.  If it is I'll get one and make it work.
Thanks Josh
They had some in stock.  It was approved back in March but updated roster hasn't been published yet.  I put a deposit down and can start the 8 day wait once the new roster is published.
Link Posted: 4/20/2019 7:01:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JoshAston:
They had some in stock.  It was approved back in March but updated roster hasn't been published yet.  I put a deposit down and can start the 8 day wait once the new roster is published.
View Quote
You guys have a handgun roster too?  Shit

At least your updates.  California is stuck with 2006 era guns lol
Link Posted: 4/20/2019 7:12:48 PM EST
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Originally Posted By geoint:
You guys have a handgun roster too?  Shit

At least your updates.  California is stuck with 2006 era guns lol
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Originally Posted By geoint:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
They had some in stock.  It was approved back in March but updated roster hasn't been published yet.  I put a deposit down and can start the 8 day wait once the new roster is published.
You guys have a handgun roster too?  Shit

At least your updates.  California is stuck with 2006 era guns lol
Yeah, it started as a copy of California's.  They update it quarterly I believe.  And manufacturers don't have to submit samples, individuals can submit through an FFL.  And any handgun manufactured before 1985 or some such is exempt I believe.
Link Posted: 4/20/2019 11:58:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By doty_soty:
Now, I’m not saying..I’m just saying: over on GT they’re talking about if the video was doctored. At first I thought they were wearing too much tin foil, but after watching the background of the vid seeming to reset with each round shot...huh...see for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Hh3zlsP1Q
View Quote
if you watch the brass eject, the cases all go in slightly different directions.
Link Posted: 4/21/2019 8:07:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By bushmaster069:
Originally Posted By doty_soty:
Now, I’m not saying..I’m just saying: over on GT they’re talking about if the video was doctored. At first I thought they were wearing too much tin foil, but after watching the background of the vid seeming to reset with each round shot...huh...see for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Hh3zlsP1Q
View Quote
if you watch the brass eject, the cases all go in slightly different directions.
View Quote
In all honesty, I was getting ready to make a joke about pixels. However, there really does seem to be something wonky about that video.
I don't notice it in this one. Maybe someone with better eyesight can say for sure.

15 Round Mag - Glock 43X / Glock 48
Link Posted: 4/21/2019 9:52:45 AM EST
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Originally Posted By bushmaster069:

if you watch the brass eject, the cases all go in slightly different directions.
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The dude filming is twitching with the shots.
Link Posted: 4/21/2019 3:02:42 PM EST
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Originally Posted By boolzi:

The dude filming is twitching with the shots.
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I think you are correct. Good catch.
Link Posted: 4/21/2019 7:13:29 PM EST
I THINK mecgar knows people want more capacity in flush fit mags.

This year their big announcement was the increased capacity mags for CZ and Beretta.
Evidently they’re coming out with a 15rd mag for the 92 Compact that is the same size as the 13rd OEM mag.

But the product isn’t here and that was announced like six months ago.
I want to know if Shield Arms was stopped by SIG for patent stuff, or if they couldn’t get it reliable, or if they’re just
being quiet because no one will buy an expensive +3 extension of they can get a flush fit mag that holds more than +3.
Link Posted: 4/21/2019 7:48:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By eviljoe:

But the product isn't here and that was announced like six months ago.
I want to know if Shield Arms was stopped by SIG for patent stuff, or if they couldn't get it reliable, or if they're just
being quiet because no one will buy an expensive +3 extension of they can get a flush fit mag that holds more than +3.
View Quote
The 365 uses a standard double stack mag, there are cutaway pics of it that prove that.  It's certainly nothing patentable.

Shield claimed they they were trying to bring these to market by summer, that's still two months away.  And there's a high likelihood they'll miss the projected launch date because every gun company to ever exist has missed every launch date ever announced.
Link Posted: 4/21/2019 8:10:25 PM EST
I dropped $20 on a mecgar mag for this experiment.  I have not started whittling yet but too a few photos for the right brainers.

Standard 48, glock mag has some slight upwards play.


CZ compact mag appx fit.


Glock mag locked in...


CZ compact mag, pushed in to approximate the space between ejector and mag lip as glock.


It would not be a stretch to add a base plate like on the CZ 18 round mag, perhaps add another round or two...
Link Posted: 4/21/2019 9:46:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/21/2019 10:24:39 PM EST
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So ready to buy a 43x if these mags release.
Link Posted: 4/22/2019 12:32:52 AM EST
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Originally Posted By dogtired:
I dropped $20 on a mecgar mag for this experiment.  I have not started whittling yet but too a few photos for the right brainers.
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Great work man, please keep us posted
Link Posted: 4/22/2019 5:34:24 AM EST
attaboy @dogtired  do you feel the CZ mag needs material added front or rear to keep it centered in the magwell?
Link Posted: 4/22/2019 7:01:21 AM EST
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Originally Posted By JoshAston:
The 365 uses a standard double stack mag, there are cutaway pics of it that prove that.  It's certainly nothing patentable.

Shield claimed they they were trying to bring these to market by summer, that's still two months away.  And there's a high likelihood they'll miss the projected launch date because every gun company to ever exist has missed every launch date ever announced.
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I’d fully expect them to miss their launch date. That’s not a knock on them, that’s just how things go in the gun industry. Major manufacturers regularly dick up launch dates, smaller outfits almost universally do. As long as it works when it’s out, I am not worried about it.

I’m happy with my 19 and 365 right now so I can hold off on a 43X (and a RMSc?), but will snap one up the second these hit the market and prove reliable.
Link Posted: 4/22/2019 4:13:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/24/2019 9:18:11 PM EST by Johnny_C]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By doty_soty:

I can hold off on a 43X (and a RMSc?), but will snap one up the second these hit the market and prove reliable.
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I would pass on the Shield RMS's. I bought one for my first RD 43, because it was
the only option at the time, The lenses are poly and will scratch even with gentle
cleanings, unlike the RMR's. I had an RM08G on this 43, but I swapped it out for a
Holosun 507c. These have the same mounting footprint and can be installed on the
43 with the correct mount.

I like the trijicons, but the 507c is an awesome optic. I now have one on my primary
carry 17.

YMMV

Link Posted: 4/22/2019 6:46:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2019 6:47:41 PM EST by eviljoe]
Glad to see that Easter message.  I'm sure ETS will be along shortly with a 12rd flush fit, but I've read mixed reviews on ETS--though some trust them enough to CCW the 7rd in their G43s.

Originally Posted By Johnny_C:I would pass on the Shield RMS's. I bought one for my first RD 43, because it was the only option at the time, The lenses are poly and will scratch even with gentle
cleanings, unlike the RMR's.
View Quote

**NOTE**

The SHIELD RMS and RMS-C (which are currently available--as in produced in or after January) and the soon to be released RMS-W (waterproof) all have a newer, much tougher quartz coating that is supposedly a lot more scratch resistant. They also announced a $50 lens replacement service, though I saw that pricing has jumped to $75, AND I assume it has to go back across the pond for that service.

Can I see a front-back or back-front view to see how far it overhangs the sides (I imagine it's like 1.75-2mm on each side)?  Does the overhang compromise the waterproofness of the HOLOSUN 507C / RMRs?  I would think that 32MOA circle would REALLY help pick up the dot.  I'm totally putting one of these on a G19.5 MOS (or maybe an ACRO P1).

I really don't like the tint and distortion of the RM06s (though, oddly, the RM01 is better but has other limits), but the 507Cs look great (though a bit large).
Link Posted: 4/22/2019 7:08:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2019 7:47:33 PM EST by doty_soty]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By eviljoe:
Glad to see that Easter message.  I'm sure ETS will be along shortly with a 12rd flush fit, but I've read mixed reviews on ETS--though some trust them enough to CCW the 7rd in their G43s.


**NOTE**

The SHIELD RMS and RMS-C (which are currently available--as in produced in or after January) and the soon to be released RMS-W (waterproof) all have a newer, much tougher quartz coating that is supposedly a lot more scratch resistant. They also announced a $50 lens replacement service, though I saw that pricing has jumped to $75, AND I assume it has to go back across the pond for that service.

Can I see a front-back or back-front view to see how far it overhangs the sides (I imagine it's like 1.75-2mm on each side)?  Does the overhang compromise the waterproofness of the HOLOSUN 507C / RMRs?  I would think that 32MOA circle would REALLY help pick up the dot.  I'm totally putting one of these on a G19.5 MOS (or maybe an ACRO P1).

I really don't like the tint and distortion of the RM06s (though, oddly, the RM01 is better but has other limits), but the 507Cs look great (though a bit large).
View Quote
I’ve always thought the RMR lens tint differences were generational in nature. I’m not talking about the difference between FO and LED model tints, or between Type 1 and Type 2, but that they’ve changed the tint as a part of ongoing subtle rolling changes.

I’m not sure exactly when my examples have been made, but I have multiple examples of adjustable LEDs that have different levels of lens tint. Some are fairly blue (though still MUCH clearer than their FO counterparts), while others are nearly clear. I know I read they upped it to help with dot contrast and/or battery brightness associated with needing a dimmer dot, though I don’t know if that’s accurate.
Link Posted: 4/22/2019 7:10:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DCopp:
attaboy @dogtired  do you feel the CZ mag needs material added front or rear to keep it centered in the magwell?
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Fits like a glove.
Link Posted: 4/22/2019 7:11:58 PM EST
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I am in...
Link Posted: 4/22/2019 8:03:21 PM EST
I have decided I would get a 48, just haven’t been in a hurry. If a 15rd magazine truly materializes that can change the intended purpose of this gun. Now I wonder if I should wait for the next gen to see if we can get a 48 with a light rail.
Link Posted: 4/22/2019 9:05:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By shwa:
I have decided I would get a 48, just haven’t been in a hurry. If a 15rd magazine truly materializes that can change the intended purpose of this gun. Now I wonder if I should wait for the next gen to see if we can get a 48 with a light rail.
View Quote
A 15 round mag for this gun will be revolutionary if reliable.

On the light rail, we really need some manufacturer to come out with a standard subcompact light rail. As technology improves, super bright durable duty lights are going to get smaller, just like guns are getting smaller. There needs to be a standard- like a smaller version of picatinny that everyone conforms to.
Link Posted: 4/22/2019 9:14:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Overkill777:

A 15 round mag for this gun will be revolutionary if reliable.

On the light rail, we really need some manufacturer to come out with a standard subcompact light rail. As technology improves, super bright durable duty lights are going to get smaller, just like guns are getting smaller. There needs to be a standard- like a smaller version of picatinny that everyone conforms to.
View Quote
3/8" is already a standard, just add a cross slot to it and good to go.
Link Posted: 4/22/2019 11:07:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2019 11:10:30 PM EST by eviljoe]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By doty_soty:
but that they’ve changed the tint as a part of ongoing subtle rolling changes.
View Quote
I have noticed that.  
Years ago, Botach had a sale on them, and I discovered an old discount code that also worked--it brought the prices down insanely low (like $320 for the LEDs and $270 for the FO). I bought like 8 to try out different things--they even called to make sure I wasn't shipping them overseas, and the code stopped working after a few days. The FOs were a no-go (way too easy to wash out and way too much tint). NOTE: I sold them so cheap that people were sure they were knock-offs (I sent one to an apache pilot on arfcom just so he could verify it before he paid.
Anyway.  5 years later, I'm looking through samples from 2 different friends, both of whom have 3-4 newer ones (some of which had been "replaced" by trijicon), and noticed the glass was much clearer on some than others.  
I kinda wonder if the gen2s and "SOCOMs" are better in general--especially now that the military seems to be interested in DPPs as well.

---
---
I'd be SO happy with a 14rd mag that 15 just seems like pushing too many limits for this size, since 100% reliability is paramount.  Even a 13rd mag would help justify the larger size over my P365.  I think 13+1 or 14+1 is plenty and it's about all the weight I'd want in a CCW.

NOTE:  Since I CAN get 11rds in my OEM mag (and it worked fine for the 4 times I did it), I'm sure just adding maybe 1/4"-1/3" to the base-plate would easily allow 11rds to go in the mag and be reliable (like the TTI +1 for G43s).
Link Posted: 4/24/2019 2:57:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/24/2019 7:46:10 PM EST


I got it fabbed up and it locks in, used a cz75 18 round base pad and shortened it to fit (not great) but it has a nice finger hook to it..

I shot it but need to figure out how to post the vid.
Link Posted: 4/24/2019 8:10:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dogtired:
https://i.postimg.cc/Y2J0SCxz/89-EBEA9-E-A4-C4-44-F7-8-DC4-B38978150-DDD.jpg

I got it fabbed up and it locks in, used a cz75 18 round base pad and shortened it to fit (not great) but it has a nice finger hook to it..

I shot it but need to figure out how to post the vid.
View Quote
Awesome. You're doing the lords work with this project.
Link Posted: 4/24/2019 8:17:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dogtired:

I shot it but need to figure out how to post the vid.
View Quote
Upload to YouTube and post the link.
Link Posted: 4/24/2019 8:24:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dogtired:
https://i.postimg.cc/Y2J0SCxz/89-EBEA9-E-A4-C4-44-F7-8-DC4-B38978150-DDD.jpg

I got it fabbed up and it locks in, used a cz75 18 round base pad and shortened it to fit (not great) but it has a nice finger hook to it..

I shot it but need to figure out how to post the vid.
View Quote
Attaboy @dogtired .  Thank you.
Link Posted: 4/24/2019 8:56:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/24/2019 8:57:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dogtired:
https://youtu.be/VPWGwCRHR-M
View Quote
Link Posted: 4/24/2019 9:06:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/24/2019 9:21:17 PM EST by Johnny_C]
I bought these from Suarez.

I don't see exactly what I bought on
their website, but call the office & they
will clarify what you need to order for
your application. Mine are a tritium dot
front and rear, dot over dot. .415 tall,
co-witness in the very bottom of the
window, which works good for me.

They milled the slide for the RMS on
my first 43. The slide in the picture is
one of their slides already milled and
is shipped with the RMR adapter.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
@Johnny_C

Who makes the suppressor height sights for the 43?
View Quote
Link Posted: 4/24/2019 9:27:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dogtired:
https://youtu.be/VPWGwCRHR-M
View Quote
Blessings upon your children, and your children’s children.
Link Posted: 4/24/2019 9:35:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dogtired:
https://youtu.be/VPWGwCRHR-M
View Quote
Fuck yeah man, great job.

Someone needs to contact MecGar about this. There's gold in them thar hills.
Link Posted: 4/24/2019 9:57:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2019 12:32:08 AM EST by Johnny_C]
I emailed Shield about the replacement service, but
I never heard back from them about it. My RMS is
scratched, but it looks like a finger print, so it really
doesn't effect use, so I am not sure it I will go to
the trouble & expense to send it in for refurb.

My 507c hangs over about .130 on each side,
so .260 total, but it is in a location that to me
is inconsequential.

My adapter plate is made by Suarez, that mates
to their milled slides. It gives full coverage across
the the bottom of the RMR's amd the 507c.

As for the size comparison, the bases are the same,
The hood on the 507c is deeper front to back, and
again to me, is inconsequential. The 507c seems
a little more beefy to me. The Holosun's body is
apparently milled from an aluminum extrusion,
where the RMR's body's are cast forged,
me thinks. But they are essentially the same size.

I run the Strike Industries +2 on my in gun
mag for CCW, and an ETS 12 round mag is
for my reload. I have never had an issue
with either of them.

As for the rear view, I snagged this image
off the net.



Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By eviljoe:
Glad to see that Easter message.  I'm sure ETS will be along shortly with a 12rd flush fit, but I've read mixed reviews on ETS--though some trust them enough to CCW the 7rd in their G43s.


**NOTE**

The SHIELD RMS and RMS-C (which are currently available--as in produced in or after January) and the soon to be released RMS-W (waterproof) all have a newer, much tougher quartz coating that is supposedly a lot more scratch resistant. They also announced a $50 lens replacement service, though I saw that pricing has jumped to $75, AND I assume it has to go back across the pond for that service.

Can I see a front-back or back-front view to see how far it overhangs the sides (I imagine it's like 1.75-2mm on each side)?  Does the overhang compromise the waterproofness of the HOLOSUN 507C / RMRs?  I would think that 32MOA circle would REALLY help pick up the dot.  I'm totally putting one of these on a G19.5 MOS (or maybe an ACRO P1).

I really don't like the tint and distortion of the RM06s (though, oddly, the RM01 is better but has other limits), but the 507Cs look great (though a bit large).
View Quote
Link Posted: 4/25/2019 12:24:57 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
Awesome. You're doing the lords work with this project.
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
Originally Posted By dogtired:
https://i.postimg.cc/Y2J0SCxz/89-EBEA9-E-A4-C4-44-F7-8-DC4-B38978150-DDD.jpg

I got it fabbed up and it locks in, used a cz75 18 round base pad and shortened it to fit (not great) but it has a nice finger hook to it..

I shot it but need to figure out how to post the vid.
Awesome. You're doing the lords work with this project.
Link Posted: 4/25/2019 9:41:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/25/2019 10:30:06 AM EST
I did file the follower down as it was sticking in the enlarged hole at round 11.  I did not examine the engagement after filing it down.  It locked up fine before that so I do not think it would be too hard. First pass is not perfect but it looks like Shield should easily be able to make a mag.  I think with a little welding and filling of the original catch this would work better.  I also notched both sides aka Gen4 mag which probably was not necessary as it would of avoided having to alter the follower.
Link Posted: 4/25/2019 11:36:24 AM EST
Whomever gets these to market first, and reliably is going to be printing money
Link Posted: 4/25/2019 1:51:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Storz:
Whomever gets these to market first, and reliably is going to be printing money
View Quote
whoever*

and yes, they will have my money. Additionally, it's the only way I'd get a Glock 43X or 48, so they'll be selling Glocks as well.
Link Posted: 4/25/2019 3:49:53 PM EST
I have a 43 & a 48.
Luv what the 43X/48 will be when Glock figures out the upper to lower (issue?) inconsistency. Maybe it’s the different surface material. When they get there I’ll carry the 48. By that time I’m sure Glock will have an oem flush fit 15 rounder for the 43X/48.
Till then the 43 iwb and the 17 + 34 in the vehicles
.
This guy agrees with me
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lKzbKnImleQ
.
Link Posted: 4/25/2019 4:52:06 PM EST
Very interested in this!
Link Posted: 4/25/2019 6:42:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/25/2019 6:43:18 PM EST by Storz]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Daggertt:
whoever*

and yes, they will have my money. Additionally, it's the only way I'd get a Glock 43X or 48, so they'll be selling Glocks as well.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Daggertt:
Originally Posted By Storz:
Whomever gets these to market first, and reliably is going to be printing money
whoever*

and yes, they will have my money. Additionally, it's the only way I'd get a Glock 43X or 48, so they'll be selling Glocks as well.
Haha so close, almost went with whoever.
Link Posted: 4/25/2019 8:28:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Siam4a1:
Luv what the 43X/48 will be when Glock figures out the upper to lower (issue?) inconsistency.
View Quote
I saw his video, too.  It's weird.  I don't notice any weirdness in mine, and it shoots straight. I thought it was odd he was quick to write them off after a sample of one (or maybe a few more). I assume mine will be even slicker when I get it recoated in DLC or cerakote or something, AFTER the milling. I do polish my guns and feedramp with a dremel and some flitz after the first 200-400rds in places where there looks like rubbing.

NOTE:
I got a second response from Shield (an email vs a facebook response). THIS second guy said the lens replacement will be $50, and that all the new SHIELDS in the US have the newer, tougher coating...and that the waterproof RMS-W will be out very soon.
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