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Posted: 11/8/2008 3:17:11 PM EDT
Howdy folks,

Earlier today at the ranch I was driving around and saw a coyote about 15-20 feet from the truck. He looked at me for about 2 seconds and then took two steps twards the truck. I am guessing he smelled the two cleaned piggies in the bed but that doesn't matter.

I had a 4in 357 smith sitting on the console loaded with .38 special hydra-shocks. The first round went between his shoulder blades and knoced him down. He jumped back up and started to turn sideways and I put one in his boiler room broadside, he started snapping at his shoulder and spinning around really fast. Round three missed (I suspect black magic or maybe some kind of high pressure gravity field). The fourth round broke his hips up and he crawled back off into some mesquite dragging him self with his front get-away sticks never to be seen again.

My question is about the ammo, I suspect that he was so soft/thin that I only made .38 cal  holes all the way through him. If I remember glasers break up and act like a load of internally fired rat shot, would that be a good option for shooting coyotes with a pistol?
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 3:11:46 PM EDT
[#1]
4in 357 smith sitting on the console loaded with .38 special hydra-shocks



Next time use .357MAGS








Link Posted: 11/8/2008 3:18:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 3:44:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Many years ago John Farnum was telling me about using Glasers on wild dogs.  I'll avoid the descriptions he used and just say that he found them very effective.
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 3:54:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
4in 357 smith sitting on the console loaded with .38 special hydra-shocks

Next time use .357MAGS
Wouldn't have made a difference - it still would have made no better than a (relatively) small hole through him.

As much as I detest Glasers, this may actually be a decent application for them. You routinely have the opportunity to shoot at coyotes with a handgun?
 



Had another one following me around today while on foot, he stayed back about 100 yards but I know he saw me and kept coming my way.

I know it may never come up again but it also seemed like a good idea for racoons or other varmints that are squishy.

Killed a small racoon with the last two shots in the gun by the way snake shot at 20 paces and another round of snake shot from 1 inch.

Plus I already have some glasers magsafe














I started collecting different .38/.357 rounds as an oddity. I also have some cor-bon power balls and some X-TREAM SHOCK
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 8:08:43 PM EDT
[#5]
I worked a suicide where the man shot himself in his head with one.  The safety slug worked as advertised, and did not exit the skull.  The firearm was a revolver, either .38 or .357, this was years ago, and I do not remember for sure.
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 11:22:49 PM EDT
[#6]
You asked a pretty specific question... based on your experience and the thin dimension of the animal, would GSS be a more effective load? Due to its under penetration and its large superficial wounding capabilities, it very well may have been a better choice. But that's a direct answer to a direct question. Is that all you are concerned about?

What if the animal faced you squarely and the only presentable target was the head and chest? It would seem to me that a round that gives adequate penetration to reach the vitals would be more desirable. Moreover, is the weapon loaded expressly for dogs, or are there other defensive applications in mind, like bipeds? In that case It seems like GSSs would be a poor choice as well.
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 11:40:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Here is my two cents.

I hunt coyotes on a regular basis on the family ranch.  I regularly use a .220 Swift, and I found highly frangible bullets (V-maxs, Ballistic Tips and Varmint grenades) to perform less than adequately at 4000 fps+.  The only thing I can surmise is that, more often than not, at extended ranges and when shooting at the chest, I hit ribs.  These bullets cause huge surface wounds, and the coyote suffers until I make a head shot.  The ones that make it inside drop them like a Neutron Star, but that is never a guarantee.  I started using a more stoutly made bullet in those rifles.

Now, straying back to topic, and tying it in.  I have finished off three coyotes at close range with my 10mm Glock, loaded with 165 grain Gold Dots loaded to about 1300 fps.  Absolutely anchored them from 15-40 yards, with a large exit wound.  

I believe the problem is using an outdated bullet design, that has always had expansion issues, in a mild .38 Special load.  If you stepped that up to a .357 Magnum, velocity wise, and used a modern bullet that expands well (Gold Dot, Golden Saber, HST, Ranger-T, etc.), you would be better off than with a highly frangible bullet.  What works on a human, will work on a coyote.
Link Posted: 11/9/2008 11:29:11 AM EDT
[#8]
Glasers seem a trifle expensive for 'yote work but I'm sure they'll do OK. That said I suspect a light bullet .357 mag (125gr) will be a more useful round. Glasers, being very light, are going to shed velocity very very quickly. What would work great at 10 feet, probably won't do as well at 50 feet. A 125gr JHP at 1400+ will still sizzle at distance. Let us know how they work out for you.
Link Posted: 11/9/2008 1:15:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
4in 357 smith sitting on the console loaded with .38 special hydra-shocks

Next time use .357MAGS
Wouldn't have made a difference - it still would have made no better than a (relatively) small hole through him.

As much as I detest Glasers, this may actually be a decent application for them. You routinely have the opportunity to shoot at coyotes with a handgun?
 



Why not the traditional 125 grain semi-jacketed hollow point?  In .357 magnum of course.
Link Posted: 11/9/2008 1:27:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 11/9/2008 1:42:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
A coyote is too small for a .357 to be of much use. Either a .38 or a .357 would have ventilated him; the extra velocity of a .357 would just be wasted). A Glaser - with it's relatively shallow penetration and nasty wound cavity in the first few inches would be great for a small critter. Then again, I would rather be using a .223 with some lightweight HPs to blow that critter up real good. I can't imagine being able to hit a coyote with a handgun much past 25 yards.



If we keep seeing as many song dogs I may start trapping, pistols would be easier to get around with but I would still probably carry a rifle.

This is more an excuse to use some of the "boutique" ammo that I bought for the collection (only one goes into the speed loader the rest just sit around)
Link Posted: 11/11/2008 10:45:25 AM EDT
[#12]
FORGET THE GLASSER SAFETY SLUGS, I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE. Use a good expanding hollow point of suffecient weight for your caliber and hit bone or vital organ or CNS to be able to cripple and/or disable. Vital hits are what matters regardless of caliber within reason!
Link Posted: 11/11/2008 12:21:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Destroying the central nervous system is the only guaranteed way to immediately shut down a living creature bigger than vermin.
Link Posted: 11/11/2008 4:16:27 PM EDT
[#14]
1) buy Glasers
2) shoot coyote
3) report back with graphic pics and detailed AAR
Link Posted: 11/11/2008 5:22:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Destroying the central nervous system is the only guaranteed way to immediately shut down a living creature bigger than vermin.



I am aware of that. The question is what would do it better? My theory is that coyotes are soft enough that the large shallow wound glasers are known for would be more effective than a .38 caliber hole straight through it.
Link Posted: 11/11/2008 5:26:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
FORGET THE GLASSER SAFETY SLUGS, I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE. Use a good expanding hollow point of suffecient weight for your caliber and hit bone or vital organ or CNS to be able to cripple and/or disable. Vital hits are what matters regardless of caliber within reason!



This entire thread has centered around what is more likely to hit bones or vital organs. Would it be a "good expanding hollow point" that doesn't expand because of the soft/thin skinned animals or a round that acts like a load of snake shot going off just under the skin?
Link Posted: 12/24/2008 7:32:00 PM EDT
[#17]
I have a friend that used to be a cop before he got tired of low pay and quit.  He shot a fat guy 4 times in the chest with glaser .380 in a Berreta 84 and the guy wanted him to call an ambulance for him.  He later tried to sue my friend from prison.  No more Glasers for him.
Link Posted: 12/27/2008 6:37:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Now long gone unfortunately Col. Jack Cannon designed the Glaser saftey slugs which were shot filled jackets with Glycerin and a teflon epoxy like tip.  I was a young pistol smith working for a company who was helping in some "field" testing overseas... I had the opportunity to speak with the Col. and have seen the amazing stopping power.  



Pity you didn't have them in your Smithy.



The concept behind the ammunition is a "pre-fragmented" round for active aircraft engagements.  The results are valid at sea level as well.  
Link Posted: 1/18/2009 7:39:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Why?  I regularly hit a 1-foot by 2-foot taget at 200 yards with a .44 Mag Bisley Vaquero with a rest.  Why is that surprising?  100-yard hits with my Python are actually easy offhand...
Link Posted: 1/18/2009 7:42:05 PM EDT
[#20]
<referring to they guy that can't understand hits with a handgun at 25 yds...who needs to read "Sixguns" by Elmer Keith.
Link Posted: 1/19/2009 6:50:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 7:13:09 PM EDT
[#22]


Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:55:29 AM EDT
[#23]
THe hydro-shok is an outdated round imho
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 7:50:51 PM EDT
[#24]
I have..have you????
I actually shoot better..or shoot more rounds until I am running again.  Either way, I am here, able to type with all my body parts still present.  
Dogs don't scare me..moojie guys with PKCs will take your life, though.
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