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Posted: 8/27/2023 9:53:52 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Well, after you order, you'll have 6-12 months to continue to rethink it. At least that's been the case for me. In the end it's not a huge risk. If you get it, and decide it's not worth it, you can sell it and get most of your money back. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By GreyBeardBiker: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Diminishing returns is a thing. However, you will get a little something for the money. In my opinion, the benefits are personal preference for how the gun looks and feels. Options that are not available in off the shelf configuration s elsewhere. Just like art, some people want, or can only afford the painting from target. Others want a Picasso, sometimes just because most people can't afford and don't have one. I certainly get all of this. Maybe I just get over myself and just purchase one. But damn, I find it hard to pull the proverbial trigger on one. Well, after you order, you'll have 6-12 months to continue to rethink it. At least that's been the case for me. In the end it's not a huge risk. If you get it, and decide it's not worth it, you can sell it and get most of your money back. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 6:59:27 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By monadh: "Diminishing returns" does not really apply to 1911s. You can get a good quality 1911 for all sorts of prices, but when you go higher in price, you should expect quality that does not exist in lower priced pistols. I've had 3 different Dan Wessons, including one "custom". They were all fine, well fitted pistols, but there is really no comparison between them and my GI Hellcat or ACW Prime Elite. The quality differences are not exactly based on accuracy, but the refinement of the movement of the slide and the trigger, the finish, the detail of the inside of the pistol, too many things to list. What it comes down to is not diminishing returns, but instead it comes down to how much quality you want. For some people, the quality difference is worth it. @monadh that's almost the exact definition of diminishing returns... Once you hit ~the limit of mechanical accuracy, the rest gets into minutia really quickly. The slide moves front to back and ideally not side to side, what can you ask for more than that? Detail finishing on the inside of the gun where it doesn't matter.... Who cares? I'm really curious to see your list of other things actually. I am willing to pay more for quality, but only to a certain point personally. I think that's true in almost all my life stuff, but we can get pretty ridiculous when it comes to nuances in pistols for some reason. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 7:16:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: AK-12]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steviesterno16: @monadh that's almost the exact definition of diminishing returns... Once you hit ~the limit of mechanical accuracy, the rest gets into minutia really quickly. The slide moves front to back and ideally not side to side, what can you ask for more than that? Detail finishing on the inside of the gun where it doesn't matter.... Who cares? I'm really curious to see your list of other things actually. I am willing to pay more for quality, but only to a certain point personally. I think that's true in almost all my life stuff, but we can get pretty ridiculous when it comes to nuances in pistols for some reason. Exactly; I could have spent around $1000 less on a Les Baer than I did ordering my Alchemy. I've shot Baers and they are phenomenal pistols; will the Alchemy shoot better? Maybe, but IMHO I'm getting nicer bluing, an undercut trigger guard, and high beavertail for the price of a new Colt on top of a Baer. And I'm completely fine with that. There's certainly a return, but it isn't proportionate to the cost increase that you'd see at the lower end of the market. Aesthetics certainly play a role in pistol prices, especially on the high end. The Colt Custom Shop offers an engraving package on SAAs that costs $13,000 for the engraving alone, and it isn't their highest tier either. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 7:49:49 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: I've shot ed browns, wilsons and nighthawks. They're nice guns but they don't really do anything for me. I just don't see the point unless there's certain features that you want. Like front grip serrations or an undercut trigger guard, etc. If I'm spending the money it would be a Springfield Pro. There's really nothing the higher end guns do that my Springfield loaded does This! |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 8:05:23 AM EST
[#5]
I like traditional looking 1911s. The Alchemy bluing is amazing. I would like to get my hands on one of those. Just. To. Try. It.
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Posted: 8/28/2023 8:37:23 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AK-12: There's certainly a return, but it isn't proportionate to the cost increase that you'd see at the lower end of the market. right, that's diminishing returns. Is a $500 sig 365 better than a $99 high point? Yes. Is a $1k Springfield loaded better than that same 365? again I think we'd all say yes. Is that $2k Baer better than the springfield? Well maybe. Is the $4k Alchemy better than the Baer? not enough for me to have pulled the trigger at this point. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 8:54:58 AM EST
[#7]
Where are Alchemy pistols made now? Are they being made at the Cabot facility?
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Posted: 8/28/2023 9:00:05 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyBeardBiker: Where are Alchemy pistols made now? Are they being made at the Cabot facility? They're in Fort Wayne Indiana, I think Cabot is in PA. My understanding is that Cabot owns ACW, but allows them to run pretty much everything on their own (fortunately). |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 4:37:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: monadh]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steviesterno16: @monadh that's almost the exact definition of diminishing returns... Once you hit ~the limit of mechanical accuracy, the rest gets into minutia really quickly. The slide moves front to back and ideally not side to side, what can you ask for more than that? Detail finishing on the inside of the gun where it doesn't matter.... Who cares? I'm really curious to see your list of other things actually. I am willing to pay more for quality, but only to a certain point personally. I think that's true in almost all my life stuff, but we can get pretty ridiculous when it comes to nuances in pistols for some reason. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steviesterno16: Originally Posted By monadh: "Diminishing returns" does not really apply to 1911s. You can get a good quality 1911 for all sorts of prices, but when you go higher in price, you should expect quality that does not exist in lower priced pistols. I've had 3 different Dan Wessons, including one "custom". They were all fine, well fitted pistols, but there is really no comparison between them and my GI Hellcat or ACW Prime Elite. The quality differences are not exactly based on accuracy, but the refinement of the movement of the slide and the trigger, the finish, the detail of the inside of the pistol, too many things to list. What it comes down to is not diminishing returns, but instead it comes down to how much quality you want. For some people, the quality difference is worth it. @monadh that's almost the exact definition of diminishing returns... Once you hit ~the limit of mechanical accuracy, the rest gets into minutia really quickly. The slide moves front to back and ideally not side to side, what can you ask for more than that? Detail finishing on the inside of the gun where it doesn't matter.... Who cares? I'm really curious to see your list of other things actually. I am willing to pay more for quality, but only to a certain point personally. I think that's true in almost all my life stuff, but we can get pretty ridiculous when it comes to nuances in pistols for some reason. I will respectfully split hairs and disagree. If you are considering the example of accuracy mentioned, I said that the differences I am talking about have little to do with that but are more about quality. Most good 1911s will outshoot me in better hands, and that is to be expected, but finding pistols made with the quality I want is a different matter. Sometimes the quality can make a difference. Like I said, I owned 3 DW pistols and even a Les Baer, but my marksmanship was getting steadily worse. I bought the GI Hellcat, inarguably the best pistol I have ever held or owned to that point, and it gave me my ability to group small back and returned my confidence. I don't think anyone here would say that either a DW or a LB are made with the same quality as a GI. Going to the ACW. I sold the GI to make room for the ACW because I wanted an old fashioned 1911 never expecting the quality of the GI, and much to my surprise, it was made with every bit of the craftsmanship of the GI. Do I believe there are other/more expensive 1911s that are made better than the ACW? Yes. Are they worth the extra $ to me to have one given those quality differences? No, but for some people they would be. If I am the frame of reference of what is worth it and what is not, I guess you could say that the law of diminishing returns applies to my decision. But the fact is, the quality difference exists independently of me and my available funds. I drive a Volvo V60. Does Mercedes make a better wagon? Probably, but I have the quality I want at the price I can afford. If I had the money for a loaded Mercedes E-class wagon, would I buy one? No, I'd buy a loaded Volvo V90 because I love Volvo's seats, and plus they are better looking. That doesn't mean differences between my V60 and the high line Volvos and Mercedes does not exist. It just means I don't have the money (or interest) in owning one. And OP, 360 is the only polished DLC 1911 ACW has made. To get that level of polish, you would need to get some form of blued. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 4:47:29 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By monadh: And OP, 360 is the only polished DLC 1911 ACW has made. To get that level of polish, you would need to get some form of blued. Much appreciated. I am enjoying reading the feedback on this thread. GBB |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 5:31:47 PM EST
[#11]
Damnit now I really want an Alchemy again. Bunch of enablers here.
I cheaped out and ordered a Wilson, because it's a more practical carry gun, and I can't stand the idea of putting scratches and holster wear on a beautiful blued Alchemy. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 10:19:10 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Damnit now I really want an Alchemy again. Bunch of enablers here. I cheaped out and ordered a Wilson, because it's a more practical carry gun, and I can't stand the idea of putting scratches and holster wear on a beautiful blued Alchemy. ACWs are made to be used. Mine still looks new because I had a few years of very poor health after I bought it. I wasn’t strong enough to shoot it. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 9:32:04 AM EST
[#13]
I want an Alchemy so bad. Im very tempted to sell some stuff to raise the $$ to acquire one.
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Posted: 8/30/2023 10:49:58 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: I want an Alchemy so bad. Im very tempted to sell some stuff to raise the $$ to acquire one. Do it!  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:00:21 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: I want an Alchemy so bad. Im very tempted to sell some stuff to raise the $$ to acquire one. I am so very close to pulling the trigger on an Alchemy... So close. Pun intended.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:03:59 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: I want an Alchemy so bad. Im very tempted to sell some stuff to raise the $$ to acquire one. I don’t really have anything left I want to sell, except an old Baer that I’m sentimental about for some damn reason. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:16:50 AM EST
[#17]
I have a Springfield Mil-Spec that's had one malfunction in 2000 rounds, and that was when the gun was filthy. I don't get hammer bite so that may be an advantage I have over other people, but having owned other brands that weren't as satisfying as the Springer, it makes me want to take it out and give it a kiss at least once a day. I don't see spending a lot of money on a custom 1911 that may or may not do more than the Mil-Spec. It might be prettier; it might have better sights. But will a couple of "nice" features be worth the extra hundreds of dollars? Not to me.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:05:40 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: I have a Springfield Mil-Spec that's had one malfunction in 2000 rounds, and that was when the gun was filthy. I don't get hammer bite so that may be an advantage I have over other people, but having owned other brands that weren't as satisfying as the Springer, it makes me want to take it out and give it a kiss at least once a day. I don't see spending a lot of money on a custom 1911 that may or may not do more than the Mil-Spec. It might be prettier; it might have better sights. But will a couple of "nice" features be worth the extra hundreds of dollars? Not to me. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/SPRINGFIELD_MIL-SPEC_at_gun_show_jpg-2937366.JPG You make very good points. And you can upgrade the sights easily. My DW Valor is fantastic, which makes me hesitant to invest $4K with taxes for an Alchemy. But then my thoughts change to, “You only live once!” |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 10:56:08 PM EST
[#19]
I've got 2 SA Mil Specs, one blued the other stainless. The blued one had some work done on it by John Harrison. I love them both and never will sell them.
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Posted: 9/1/2023 4:14:51 AM EST
[#20]
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Posted: 9/1/2023 6:20:47 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: Only 1911s I own. If I ever get another, it will probably be another Wilson. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/34777/IMG_6711_jpeg-2939147.JPG Those are such great looking pistols. |
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Posted: 9/1/2023 6:41:50 AM EST
[#22]
 Attached FileZoom Zoom. Used, a grand. What's not to like. Sure I didn't have it built for me personally but I wouldn't change much if I did other then a more modern physically smaller rear sight. |
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Posted: 9/1/2023 6:44:47 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fxntime: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32224/IMG_1353_JPG-2939167.JPG Zoom Zoom. Used, a grand. What's not to like. Sure I didn't have it built for me personally but I wouldn't change much if I did other then a more modern physically smaller rear sight. There is nothing wrong with used pistols. Sometimes you just luck out and find that unicorn. Was it shot a lot? |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 9/1/2023 6:54:43 AM EST
[#24]
If I were going to buy a custom 1911, I would want it built by Hilton Yam.
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Posted: 9/1/2023 7:06:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: fxntime]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyBeardBiker: There is nothing wrong with used pistols. Sometimes you just luck out and find that unicorn. Was it shot a lot? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyBeardBiker: Originally Posted By fxntime: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32224/IMG_1353_JPG-2939167.JPG Zoom Zoom. Used, a grand. What's not to like. Sure I didn't have it built for me personally but I wouldn't change much if I did other then a more modern physically smaller rear sight. There is nothing wrong with used pistols. Sometimes you just luck out and find that unicorn. Was it shot a lot? I doubt it had more then a couple boxes at most put thru it when I bought it. Same for my Briley Versitility. Now my Jim Clark Sr hardball 1911, yeah, that was shot but it's slicker then snot on ice and old school built. All three were right at a grand give or take a few bucks so they were and are out there. You get a lot of pistol for the money if you can find a good used semi custom 1911 lightly used. I also have one built by Brian Bilby but very few people will have heard of him. He also massaged and tuned my GCNM Colt. |
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Posted: 9/1/2023 7:19:34 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fxntime: I doubt it had more then a couple boxes at most put thru it when I bought it. Same for my Briley Versitility. Now my Jim Clark Sr hardball 1911, yeah, that was shot but it's slicker then snot on ice and old school built. All three were right at a grand give or take a few bucks so they were and are out there. You get a lot of pistol for the money if you can find a good used semi custom 1911 lightly used. I also have one built by Brian Bilby but very few people will have heard of him. He also massaged and tuned my GCNM Colt. I’m always keeping an eye peeled for a god used buy. |
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Posted: 9/2/2023 11:06:25 AM EST
[#27]
It will likely become your most shot, most trusted, and most treasured sidearm.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/2/2023 4:28:54 PM EST
[#28]
I never use 1911's anymore except as fun toys for the range. I really enjoy their triggers and its a welcome break from todays striker fired poly guns. However, while a quality 1911 is a world above the cheaper makes/models, as some have noted, there are truly diminishing returns once you go above the semi-custom 1911's. I'm down to just 3 remaining 1911's in 45 ACP and the semi-customs such as the Wilson Combat and Les Baer I have fulfill my needs just fine. I also really think the Dan Wesson's are another alternative that does a great job as well. While I've spent into that price range for collectible guns I just can't justify the cost of the full house custom 1911's when my needs are meet so well with the semi-customs.
My remaining 45 ACP 1911's: a Les Baer Premier II two tone, a Wilson Combat Protector and a relatively cheap alternative that shot too damn well to part with-an early SA Range Officer. 
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CA, USA
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Posted: 9/2/2023 5:45:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: adam556]
[#29]
I own a Springfield Professional and Colt Custom Shop Competition Government Model. I own other 1911’s that would be considered entry to mid-level production models. I will agree that there is a point of diminishing returns. My Springfield MC Operator is one of my duty pistols and can do 90 to 95% of what my Pro can do. The Pro is definitely more accurate and is easier to shoot well.
Everyone that has handled my Pro has said it is their favorite of all my 1911’s. Even without shooting the pistol. The Pro is almost triple the price of the MC Operator. To most, the price is probably not justifiable. To me it is absolutely worth the price. It is one of the pistols I will never sell and will become a family heirloom. If you are considering a custom or semi-custom 1911 and can afford one, pull the trigger. You will not regret it. 
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Posted: 9/3/2023 9:40:42 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By adam556: I own a Springfield Professional and Colt Custom Shop Competition Government Model. I own other 1911’s that would be considered entry to mid-level production models. I will agree that there is a point of diminishing returns. My Springfield MC Operator is one of my duty pistols and can do 90 to 95% of what my Pro can do. The Pro is definitely more accurate and is easier to shoot well. Everyone that has handled my Pro has said it is their favorite of all my 1911’s. Even without shooting the pistol. The Pro is almost triple the price of the MC Operator. To most, the price is probably not justifiable. To me it is absolutely worth the price. It is one of the pistols I will never sell and will become a family heirloom. If you are considering a custom or semi-custom 1911 and can afford one, pull the trigger. You will not regret it. https://i.imgur.com/DY2ngLo.jpg That’s a fantastic looking pistol! 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/3/2023 1:47:46 PM EST
[#31]
Just do it and see. Like others have said, from a functional standpoint you may not get a lot of additional bang for your Buck over a 1500-2k gun but some customs only start at 500-1k more (Baer, Wilson). If you appreciate nice fit and finish on a gun that feels like it has an actual soul, you’ll love it. Bonus points because it’ll likely be very reliable.
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Posted: 9/3/2023 2:01:37 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thatguybryan: Just do it and see. Like others have said, from a functional standpoint you may not get a lot of additional bang for your Buck over a 1500-2k gun but some customs only start at 500-1k more (Baer, Wilson). If you appreciate nice fit and finish on a gun that feels like it has an actual soul, you’ll love it. Bonus points because it’ll likely be very reliable. I’m just gonna have to buy an Alchemy.  Attached File |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/3/2023 5:55:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: thatguybryan]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyBeardBiker: I’m just gonna have to buy an Alchemy. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/nod-3.gif My man. Make it a quantico in 9mm. Or, you know, a quantico hicap carry, or a quantico carry (both new models). 
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Posted: 9/4/2023 9:07:53 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thatguybryan: My man. Make it a quantico in 9mm. Or, you know, a quantico hicap carry, or a quantico carry (both new models). https://alchemy1911.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/DSC07573-1-scaled.jpg That’s a sexy ass pistol. But I’m going to stay more traditional and it will be in 45 ACP. I have enough 9mm pistols. But you just can’t have enough 45 ACPs. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 9:17:27 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyBeardBiker: That’s a sexy ass pistol. But I’m going to stay more traditional and it will be in 45 ACP. I have enough 9mm pistols. But you just can’t have enough 45 ACPs. You need a blued Prime Government. 
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Posted: 9/4/2023 9:20:39 AM EST
[#36]
I’m looking at blued and a two tone ACW.
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Posted: 9/4/2023 10:11:35 AM EST
[#37]
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:16:20 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyBeardBiker: This has really caught my eye. I am in pure 1911 lust mode. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/581885/IMG_1355_jpeg-2942311.JPG Dang I didn't even know case hardened was an option |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 9/4/2023 2:11:18 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyBeardBiker: This has really caught my eye. I am in pure 1911 lust mode. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/581885/IMG_1355_jpeg-2942311.JPG Beautiful piece. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 5:09:53 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mississippiflush: Dang I didn't even know case hardened was an option It’s significantly more expensive, but if you’re buying something like that, what’s $1500 more?? |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 6:43:55 PM EST
[#41]
Whatever you do, don't look at the charcoal blue
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Posted: 9/4/2023 6:45:35 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AK-12: Whatever you do, don't look at the charcoal blue Wait… What?? Pictures? |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 7:56:36 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyBeardBiker: Wait… What?? Pictures? Pictures don't do it justice. It's an incredibly deep, highly polished blue job done with the pre-war charcoal and sperm whale oil method of guns that are scarcely made anymore. Hence the reason it costs twice what a hot salt blued Prime does. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 7:58:07 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AK-12: Pictures don't do it justice. It's an incredibly deep, highly polished blue job done with the pre-war charcoal and sperm whale oil method of guns that are scarcely made anymore. Hence the reason it costs twice what a hot salt blued Prime does. I went in and found it. It is a sexy 1911 for sure. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 9:20:07 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AK-12: You need a blued Prime Government. This is absolutely true |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 9:46:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: fxntime]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AK-12: Pictures don't do it justice. It's an incredibly deep, highly polished blue job done with the pre-war charcoal and sperm whale oil method of guns that are scarcely made anymore. Hence the reason it costs twice what a hot salt blued Prime does. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AK-12: Originally Posted By GreyBeardBiker: Wait… What?? Pictures? Pictures don't do it justice. It's an incredibly deep, highly polished blue job done with the pre-war charcoal and sperm whale oil method of guns that are scarcely made anymore. Hence the reason it costs twice what a hot salt blued Prime does. While I wish they had polished it more, Colts original WW1 reissue had a Carbonia blued finish and it was a PITA to do. I doubt Colt will ever bother with it again. [they farmed it out] For the $850 they initially cost the finish was stupidly cheap because it wasn't easy to do. Any of the later WW1's were done in a far cheaper and easier to do finish. [Black Oxide] |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 10:21:30 AM EST
[#47]
Decisions, decisions, decisions. I’m gonna pull the proverbial trigger soon. And the way the Alchemy looks, that’s what I want and need.
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Posted: 9/5/2023 11:27:56 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fxntime: While I wish they had polished it more, Colts original WW1 reissue had a Carbonia blued finish and it was a PITA to do. I doubt Colt will ever bother with it again. [they farmed it out] For the $850 they initially cost the finish was stupidly cheap because it wasn't easy to do. Any of the later WW1's were done in a far cheaper and easier to do finish. [Black Oxide] Those were beautifully finished. I wish I'd have bought one |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 1:24:51 PM EST
[#49]
Baer has ruined me on production pistols. Although slide/frame fit has very little affect on accuracy, non tight 1911's are just gross.
That said, the 3 old school DW Valor's I've owned had better trigger's than the 5 Baer's I've owned. The Baer's are good, just the Valor's were a little better.  |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/5/2023 1:31:05 PM EST
[#50]
OP you won't regret an Alchemy.
I just got a Prime Elite Compact as well as a full house custom done by Rob previous to him joining Cabot. Both are just flawless. Even the standard Alchemy blue is stunning. |
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