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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/30/2005 6:56:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 5:12:19 AM EDT by metroplex]
I don't plan on firing a Glock underwater, but what modifications/parts are required to help it cycle once you pull it out of water? It's in case I have to retrieve the pistol out of water and need to use it right away (ala AK) w/o taking 15 min to drain out the water ala AR-15.

ETA: Maritime Spring Cups
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 6:59:52 AM EDT
If you ain't gonna do it why do you need to know about it?

Now if "your friend" wants to do it, do a Google search...you'll find all kinds of info about what's required.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 7:46:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2005 7:51:36 AM EDT by metroplex]
ETA: Nevermind, looks like special spring cups are needed.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 9:44:16 AM EDT
There is a video out by Lenny McGill that deals with shooting underwater. It's dumb, but there are a lot of interesting observations made about firing many different models and types of pistols underwater.

It's interesting from an entertainment angle.

LINK
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 9:50:05 AM EDT
The GLOCK factory "Marine Spring Cups" can be purchase at Lone Wolf item #GLO-70M..

Link Posted: 7/30/2005 9:57:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnHollister:
....Lenny McGill that deals with shooting underwater. It's dumb,....

Yep and I think Lenny’s entire camera crew quit after filming the video. Lenny needs to learn SAFE gun handling. Of course if CA wanted to Lenny would have a new home at the "Gray Bar Hotel", shooting in the city limits of San Diego is not the smartest thing he has done.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 10:03:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnHollister:
There is a video out by Lenny McGill that deals with shooting underwater. It's dumb, but there are a lot of interesting observations made about firing many different models and types of pistols underwater.

It's interesting from an entertainment angle.



Any shots of Lenny's Wife?? IIRC, she's quite a looker !
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 10:08:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BrianNH:
Any shots of Lenny's Wife?? IIRC, she's quite a looker !

Yea, Lenny bought her some improvements.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 10:11:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:

Originally Posted By BrianNH:
Any shots of Lenny's Wife?? IIRC, she's quite a looker !

Yea, Lenny bought her some improvements.



I've searched everywhere, cant find a pic of her. I might have to buy a video with her in it. Hopefully it's not the AR15 workout video where Lenny runs around in spandex shorts.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 10:27:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BrianNH:

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:

Originally Posted By BrianNH:
Any shots of Lenny's Wife?? IIRC, she's quite a looker !

Yea, Lenny bought her some improvements.



I've searched everywhere, cant find a pic of her. I might have to buy a video with her in it. Hopefully it's not the AR15 workout video where Lenny runs around in spandex shorts.



Link Posted: 7/31/2005 5:59:20 AM EDT
The spring cups and a lot of caution would be all IIRC. Marine spring cups don't cost much, but a Kaboom will cost ya.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 6:11:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sparky357:
The spring cups and a lot of caution would be all IIRC. Marine spring cups don't cost much, but a Kaboom will cost ya.



I hear ya, I don't have any plans to shoot underwater or in/above water. It's just to satisfy the "what-if" factor.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:20:18 AM EDT
FWIW, I didn't think the spring cups address potential Kb issues. I thought they were just to allow the firing pin to function (i.e. no light primer strikes) with water in the firing pin channel.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:22:11 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 10:37:27 PM EDT
From the TopGlock.com site:

Can I shoot my Glock underwater?

Just about any handgun will fire underwater -- at least once. :-) However, firing underwater is NOT recommended because it can have devastating effects on the pistol and the shooter -- a potentially dangerous activity that should only be utilized by trained personnel wearing proper equipment for protection against potential pressure wave effects of underwater detonation. The shock/pressure waves in water can really damage internal organs (ever heard of lithotripsy?). Shooting a pistol underwater can lead to property damage, serious bodily injury or even death.

NOTE: Glock, Inc., specifically disclaims any and all liability from anyone performing or attempting to perform underwater firing with a Glock pistol -- you do so at your own risk.

The Glock 17 may be equipped with an optional set of maritime spring cups for use in water environments. Maritime spring cups are not intended for submerged firing, but for surface use by special ops teams who operate in and around water. The maritime spring cups are two small parts within the firing pin assembly and are not included on any Model 17 sold by Glock (civilians can only get them through 3rd parties). They insure that water can pass by the firing pin within the firing pin channel, thus preventing the creation of hydraulic force within the firing pin channel -- which would slow the firing pin down, causing light primer strikes. With the special cups, the action will cycle reliably while submersed, if a little bit slower. NATO specification ammunition (such as Winchester's Ranger RA9124N) with waterproof sealed primers and case mouths is recommended.

Although you may install the maritime spring cups on any Glock model, *only* the Glock 17 was designed and intended to use the modified spring cups for aquatic firing -- and only then using 9mm ball ammunition to remain within acceptable pressure limits. The foolhardy who insist on living dangerously must keep several things in mind: The Glock 17 must be fully submersed underwater. There must not be any air left within the pistol as the muzzle is pointed towards the surface of the water after submersion to allow the air in the barrel to escape. Use only full metal jacket, ball-type ammunition because the water within the barrel can spread a hollow point out within the barrel upon firing. This increases the bearing surface of the bullet to the barrel and could catastrophically increase pressures. Even if the barrel doesn't burst, the expanded bullet would get even bigger upon exiting into the water and would slow down very quickly while tumbling. Accuracy would be terrible.

The marinized Glock 17 is primarily for use by various Special Warfare units operating in aquatic environments. At least one specialized Scuba diving group regularly uses G17's to dispatch sharks where they dive. The Glock 17 using NATO specification ball ammunition will completely penetrate a minimum of one 1/2" pine board at a distance of ten feet from the muzzle when fired underwater.

Trained personnel who use Glocks underwater know they must obey several rules:
1) use only a Glock Model 17 with amphibious spring cups (reliability issue);
2) use only 9mm FMJ subsonic, sealed primer ammo;
3) completely immerse the pistol and get *all* the air out of the barrel;
4) wear protective ear plugs, gloves, wet suit, face mask, etc.;
5) do not fire near solid objects or in enclosed spaces to prevent return
concussion.

However, any Glock -- even those not equipped with maritime spring cups -- will normally fire while submersed underwater. But doing so may generate excessive internal pressure and may cause the pistol to literally blow up. This is especially true with the use of high-pressure rounds (such as the .40 S&W/357 SIG) or hollow-point bullets.

I recall a reported incident where a Glockster on a boating holiday decided to show some friends how his Glock would fire underwater (because Tommy Lee Jones said so in the movies). He stuck his hand overboard, pulled the trigger and came back with a bunch of shredded plastic and a badly injured hand.

Another reported case was the Glockster who decided to try out his Glock 23 .40 S&W in the swimming pool after seeing pictures of Glocks being fired underwater on the web. He was totally submerged, with the gun, as he fired at a piece of wood on the bottom of his pool. The Glock did fire, the .40 S&W FMJ round left the barrel and went into the wood. The chamber also exploded and implanted shrapnel into his leg. Thinking that the water would muffle the blast, he did not wear hearing protection (the blast is actually about 4 times louder underwater). He is now mostly deaf in one ear and hears high-pitched tones most of his waking life.

As you can see, firing a pistol underwater is a *very* dangerous endeavor.
Several things could happen:
1) the firing pin may be slowed enough to not detonate the primer
(without the maritime spring cups)
2) the pistol could blow up in your hand;
3) the concussion could damage ears, eyes or internal organs;
4) the bullet may not go where you intend it to.

Even if you have the right equipment, know what you're doing and follow the rules -- the risks for underwater firing are minimized -- but not eliminated. Your pistol's barrel could be affected by water obstruction and your body by damaging concussion. By using hollow point bullets (water may cause the bullet to expand in the barrel), high pressure ammo, etc. -- you're asking for an underwater kaBoom! It you fire near solid or hard objects, the bouncing concussion can cause extensive, perhaps even fatal external/internal tissue injury. Why risk it?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:27:23 AM EDT
Emphasis on the last question (more than one in the posting).

I used to resent the reluctance of any gun manufacturer to "approve modifications". As I have grown older and seen the craziness in this world, I have gained an appreciation. Now just imagine the following. There is a modification such as putting on an extended slide release after sale from the factory. Glock excitedly "approves" a modification specifying partx manufactured by companyx. Some dofus decides that he is going to do the modification himself. So, he goes and buys a knockoff part made by companyz. He then buys a hand dremel (you'll understand why in a moment).

Now he is all set up. Dofus has been drinking beer and just had a fight with his wife. He forgets to put on his safety goggles. He holds up the extended slide release and is going to dremel off a burr on the knockoff part. The dremel touches the burr which flies off and strikes him in the eye.

Dofus goes to a lawyer (and I am a lawyer). Well, Glock never specified the procedures for installation of the part at home, so it is Glock's fault that the guy was injured. Oh, and Glock never and should have cautioned about using knock part of companyz, so it is Glock's fault. And, stretching itttttttttttttttttt, some lawyer will assert that it is dumb to approve of home modifications to firearms when the original manufacturer has no way of examining and approving of the skills of the home tinkerer.

How much do you think it costs, in legal fees, for a lawyer to pick up a defense file, evaluate it, establish that Dofus is a certifiable idiot and to convince his lawyer to drop the suit. Try $20,000. So, if you spread $20,000 over 2,000 pistol sales at $10 a throw, you are covered.

And, people get pissed because a manufacturer doesn't "approve" of modifications? Get real.

Next, Glock tells the general public about specific modifications to a Glock 17 that will enable a person to shoot a Glock under water.

Dofus has a son in a fraternity at UCLA. Dofus, Jr. decides it would be cool to shoot the gun underwater in the fraternity swimming pool at a party. Get the point? Frankly, I have never heard of a civilian shooting range with underwater facilities such as 25 yard targets. Is it understandable why Glock will do that type of modification for LEO or military only?

The series of questions are routine and repetitive on a number of boards. People shouldn't get worked up and attack the poster. It is a stage that we all go through.

Eventually, if we live long enough, we appreciate that our energy is better spent learning how to shoot on the run, cover 360 degrees, shoot in low light, and learn a shooting technique that covers handgun, shotgun, rifle, and submachine gun and stay away from time wasters like:

9mm vs. .45acp
Glock vs government model
Savage vs. Remington bolt action
the purchase of cheap ammo (that doesn't work in a firearm)
Markovs and why they are the performance equivalent of an HK pistol costing 8 times as much
what equipment SF uses (particularly when we are so fat that we cannot take the trashcan to the street)
the advantage of owing a 2 foot bowie knife that we leave in the safe
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:01:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bcochran:

Eventually, if we live long enough, we appreciate that our energy is better spent learning how to shoot on the run, cover 360 degrees, shoot in low light, and learn a shooting technique that covers handgun, shotgun, rifle, and submachine gun and stay away from time wasters like:

9mm vs. .45acp
Glock vs government model
Savage vs. Remington bolt action
the purchase of cheap ammo (that doesn't work in a firearm)
Markovs and why they are the performance equivalent of an HK pistol costing 8 times as much
what equipment SF uses (particularly when we are so fat that we cannot take the trashcan to the street)
the advantage of owing a 2 foot bowie knife that we leave in the safe



That's some funny shit. . . . Except for the Remington/Savage question.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:31:46 PM EDT

G17, Firing Underwater, what approved mods are required?

Paging Doctor Darwin, Doctor Darwin to the pool please.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:36:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
I don't plan on firing a Glock underwater, but what modifications/parts are required to help it cycle once you pull it out of water? It's in case I have to retrieve the pistol out of water and need to use it right away (ala AK) w/o taking 15 min to drain out the water ala AR-15.



Just shake the pistol to dislodge some of the water and it should do fine. I shot under drenching rain and it was fun No misfeeds, no jams.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:01:08 AM EDT
Since the title of this thread is "G17, FIRING ABOVE WATER, WHAT MODS ARE REQUIRED?", my recommendations are that you aquire a health dose of something called "Common Sense"...the manual that came with your G17 should help you.

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:17:18 AM EDT
I hate to be the fool to continue this but I will anyways...

i wonder about the safety of using something like a 38 revolver under water? No, not something I really want to do but with a revolver you have much less of the issues that a semiauto is looking at and revolvers can be overbuilt to some degree...

Now, I am just thinking here so if someone if foolish enough to try it... don't blame me as I am just thinking and have no plans to do it myself!
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:23:32 AM EDT
I don't think anyone said they were actually going to try shooting it under water.
The maritime cups are less than $10 shipped. I just want to be prepared for a worst case TEOTWAWKI situation.
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