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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/11/2004 8:24:13 AM EST
My neighbor purchased a used Smith and Wesson 411 (I think it was what is now the 410?). Anyway, it is .40 cal, with an exposed hammer, and decocker.

Here is his problem:

He says he locks the slide back, inserts a loaded magazine, releases the slide at which time the hammer stays in the cocked possition. (Good so far right?). So now he says that the hammer wont fall when he pulls the trigger. He tells me that he has to decock the hammer, and then put an abnormal amount of force on the trigger to get it to fire. After the first round like that, he says the rest of the magazine shoots as normal. He thinks that it may be some sort of safety, but it sounds strange to me.

NOTE: I have never been shooting with him, and he asked me to check it out, but I refuse to check this out without being safely at a range (I am not about to figure out why a loaded gun, won't fire in my house or backyard!). So I am just going off of his explanation on this.

I have shot some older smith semi-auto's and I've never had a problem like that, but it is possible I have a different system of cycling the first round than he does.

Anyone know why it might be doing this?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 2:55:32 PM EST
Sounds like he's doing something out of sequence. Any time the hammer is cocked, the trigger allows the hammer to fall. If you wish to test it, do it empty or use empty cases. The owner has to be doing something incorrect as it works on all other rds, yes?
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 1:25:28 AM EST
These pistols use a magazine safety which supposedly prevents the trigger from being pulled if a magazine is not fully inserted. When the magazine is inserted, it pushes upward on the safety lever which is under tension from a spring housed under the rear sight. It could be an issue with a particular magazine and this safety, or something he is doing / not doing. Hard to tell without looking at the gun.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:27:43 AM EST
FWIW,

I have noticed in my 457 that you have to insert the mag all the way up. Most people gently insert mag and think it is fully seated. Like most 1911, use a little ooomf and get the mag fully seated. He may not be getting it all the way in.

Good luck

Rebel 13
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 6:00:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:15:35 PM EST
Thats kinda scary that new S&W semi-autos won't fire without a mag. Shit happens, and in an emergency situation, I sure would rather single load my firearm...instead of using it as a club
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:54:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By TXAGGIECCL:
Thats kinda scary that new S&W semi-autos won't fire without a mag. Shit happens, and in an emergency situation, I sure would rather single load my firearm...instead of using it as a club



Many guns have had a mag safety. The Browning High Power among them. Removing it was the first thing I did on my High Power. I'm guessing it was a cop thing that led to them being designed that way?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 3:22:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 3:24:02 PM EST by ikor]
The S&W mag safety is not as easy to remove as the Browning's. It was a lawyer thang, Bob!

It CAN, however, be removed. First thing you need to do is take out the rear sight, then make sure none of those damned springs sprang around, then make sure you ARE REMOVING THE SPRING AND PLUNGER FOR THE magazine safety, since the firing pin safety is also in there...and take all of it out...then reassemble and put the sight back in...while you're at it, be sure to come up with a good reason for disabling a factory safety since, while S&W will make guns without it for the LE market, they will NOT do so for the civilian market!

BTW none of the FBI contract guns had a mag safety!

I say pass on the S&W autos and get something else!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:09:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By ikor:
The S&W mag safety is not as easy to remove as the Browning's. It was a lawyer thang, Bob!
I didn't say *I* took it out!

I say pass on the S&W autos and get something else!
Well said!

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:55:13 PM EST
Thanks for the info on my friends smith and wesson. I called a reputable gunsmith that I have used a few times in the past, and he said he knew what the problem was, and it was an easy fix. (didn't tell me what it was, but I didn't ask for more info). I told my friend about it, and he said that he will take it in when he gets the time. He wasn't too worried about having it checked out soon, beings it is only a range gun.

As far as passing on the S&W and buying something else, I don't believe anyone was talking about purchasing one. This is my friends gun, and he bought it/uses it for his own purposes (range only), so I won't judge another persons weapon choice when it doesn't affect me. I was simply looking for info to possibly help a good friend.

Thanks to everyone who provided constructive information.
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