So I have been a part of the Glock "religion" for going on 17 years. I bought my first Glock 21 in 1993 as a Tempe Police Officer and when we made the switch to 40sw, I sold it and got a 22C which has NEV ER malfunctioned during extensive training on the tactical team, department qualifications, and personal use. I retired just as weapon mounted lights and the accompanying holsters landed on the scene. There was a legal issue with weapon mounted lights because officers were using this as a flashlight at times when it would not be appropriate to point a gun at someone.

Anyway, I broke down and bought an X300 for my Glock 22 over a year ago. Now I am kicking myself for breaking a cardinal rule of firearms use because I never actually had any range time with the light mounted. Then I read on here about a malfunction that could be caused by the light. Yesterday I took my Glock to the range and it malfunctioned repeatedly, pushing the front end of the round into the front of the mag. A tap/rack fixed it but what is the deal. It doesn't seem like it even puts that much pressure on the frame. I verified it was the light by removing it and it ran like a top.

Has any answer to this ever been discovered or do you have to send it back to Glock?

Try the newest magazines. I think they are on their 8th or 9th generation of .40 magazine to deal with this.

FBI uses a downloaded Gold Dot 165gr loading to deal with this as well.

Is it the magazine or a timing/spring problem due to the extra mass of the accessory?
I don't claim to know.  I'm just studying about the GLOCK pistol system.
Does the Gen4 correct the problem mentioned?

Send the magazines back to Glock's Tech Service Dept. and tell them about the problems with the light.  Most likely they will send you brand new mags.  That's what they did for me without question since I carry a Surefire on my duty weapon.The new mags have a #9 follower and an 11 coil spring that have fixed my problem.

supposedly

Oops!! I was rushing to get my post done before church and forgot to mention I am now running this gun with a factory .357 barrel. I did use a Gen 9 22- round .40 mag and it malfunctioned with that as well. I was shooting DoubleTap 125 grain Gold Dots and Factory Gold Dots to test my carry round.

You can get .357 Gold Dots for less than 40 cents a round right now. Good time to stock up.

SWAT Dude,

You should be fine with new mags.  This was a problem with the older followers #5's and under. When the #6 followers came out the problem started to get solved.  With the newer #8 and #9 you should have no issues.  The tac lights change the flex on the frame and affects recoil of the firearm so you dont get a full cycle on the slide.   We had this problem back in 2003 and 2004 at my department, with only a few Glock 22's.  Glock fixed the problem with an 11 coil  on the mag spring initially and then corrected it with new followers when the #6 and #7 came out.  The #5 mags had a10 coil springs.   Im betting you have #4 or #5 followers on you mags.   Hope this helps.  

My #5 mags have the 11 coil  spring from back in 2004 when we replaced them and they have be 100% with light mounted, they are my range mags so they get shot a lot.  My duty mags are the current #8 and #9.

Run the .40 barrel with the new mags and let use know.  Not sure what the difference would be with the .357 barrel,  the follower is different on the .357 mag.

If it helps to restore your confidence I have had no issues for the two G17 Gen4 and two G19 Gen4 each mounted with a taclight.

where???

are you sure about that?

Not sure about the #9 .40 and the .357 But I think the .357 has always been a little different not 100% as I dont have one in front of me and not sure what difference that it would make.

the .357 #1 follower looks close to the #5 .40  But the #2 .357  and #8 .40 have a different shape divet where the nose of the round goes.  Once again not sure If that will effect the G22 firearm or not.

Since about 2002 The .40 follower has changed 5 times.  The .357 has changed twice.

The 11 coil spring cures these issues in almost every case.  Worn springs will cause this if they are older 11 coils.

It malfunctioned every time with a brand new 40sw 22-round mag with the #9 follower. Glockmeister sold these as being compatible with the 357 as well. I am calling Glock tomorrow. I was running one "real" 357 mag, gen 1.



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So is it failing in .40 or .357 configuration?

180gr. Winchester PDX1.



 

Does your recoil spring assembly pass "the test?"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSzqRlGsdD4&playnext=1&videos=mnGzpTlJEKM

I am running a .357 barrel in my G22. Works flawless without the Surefire.

I keep forgetting. Must be a new development.

Wow. I called Glock and the guy I spoke with told me it was a slide velocity issue. He said nothing about frame flex but indicated the added weight on the front caused the slide velocity to increase and the rounds in the mag don't have enough time to "pop" up before the slide comes shooting back forward. This catches them before they are all the way up and causes the nose dive. He said the 11 coil mag spring and number 9 follower fix the problem. I hinted around several times but no offer to send me new springs or followers was ever made. To say I am disappointed with Glock would be an understatement. I have sung their praises for years and wouldn't carry anything else. He did say that the model 22 seemed to be the only one affected. It really is just a weird glitch and maybe even Glock doesn't really know what causes it for sure. I will try the springs and followers on my own dime but I think this is pretty bogus. Glockmeister sells the latest followers for $2 each but the springs are around $8 each times 12 mags isn't going to be cheap.

I'm pretty bummed.

He would also be mistaken.

Some of my G23's have the same issue with a tac light mounted (TLR-1).

What, wow Im blown away that sucks.  I would shoot the .40 barrel with the light see what happens.  If your going to blow 120 on mag stuff anyway I would sell your .357 barrel and put all the mag money and barrel money on a G31.  

I have two G23's with #5 follower mags.  Have run lights on them for years now and never had a problem. Also my full size #5's for the G22 work as well in the G23.

Good luck hope it works out.

Call Glock again and tell them your pistol is malfunctioning with a light on it and you want to send the mags in for upgrading as you were told by a Glock armorer that the springs need to be upgraded.   See what they offer then.

DELETED

Our early G22s had the same problem w/o the lights.  New mag springs with the extra coil eliminated the problem.  M3X, TLR-1 has caused the problem you described.  Over tightening the TLR-1 to the frame has caused the problem also.  If you look at the dust covers on the gen 2s, the serial number plate is a raised hump.  The early gen 3s have the same hump.  Then Glock realized that the frame does flex with recoil and the clamping forces on the sides of the dust cover contributes to the problem.  Now, the gen 3s have a beefed up dust cover area.  The serial number plate is recessed.  I personally have not had a problem with my X200/X300.  I did have a M3 fly off once during a shoot.

How is the top locking block pin?  The G2Z does wonders when used with the harris technique, but not everyone likes the separate flashlight.

Just a quick question: how does one go about reloads while using the Harries technique?

Is that a genuine question or a sarcastic one?  Tactical or speed reload?  You look for cover, clip your light to your pinky finger and palm and grasp the new mag.  You should know how to do the rest.  

For all of Glock's answers about springs, this is what we've seen.
For .40 cal Glocks, there really isn't any rhyme or reason.  The gun may or may not work with the Surefire light.  Pop it off and try the Streamlight and again, it may or may not work.
When springs are replaced and do help, they appear to wear out quickly for replacement.
I know this doesn't help, but at least you know the rule about testing out your setup!

I was serious. I wasn't asking how to perform a reload in general, but rather how the reload was to be executed while a flashlight was in the support hand. I didn't think of putting the light in between the fingers. It seems like it would be a bit difficult and unwieldy while under stress. I'll have to give it a try, though a WML seems like it would make things far easier.

sure wish I had read this about 10 minutes ago . . . dang.


guess my new mags aren't the newest mags. . .

For all that believe the problem is in the magazines. That isn't truly the best fix. The best fix is to replace the recoil spring with a 20# spring made by ISMI. You can replace the factory spring on the factory polymer rod or buy the ISMI captured guiderod.
The 17# progressive rate recoil spring is designed around the 9mm cartridge and the pressures associated with it. Slow the slide speed down with a 20# ISMI spring and guns with lights or feed issues related to slide speed will run like a champ. The slide velocity will slow down enough to allow the slide to impact and strip the next round out of the magazine as to feed it at the proper angle into the chamber. With the old spring the slide was being sent to the rear and returning to battery and catching the next round just as it was starting to rise in the magazine. Therefore the feed rail would contact the top of the round causing a nose dive condition and jamb the nose of the bullet into the front of the mag or the bottom of the feed ramp.

I've never understood why Glock spent all the effort to fix a magazine when the $7 recoil spring was the issue. Its kinda odd that the new Gen4 guns have the 15# constant rate spring with triple the service life and those guns run without issue when a light is attached.

On the other side of that, I've had a TLR mounted on my G23 for a few years now. No problems. I do have a stainless guide rod and after market Wolfe spring. Not sure of the spring weight.

link?

This is the best post I have heard on the topic yet and it makes perfect sense. The slide speed could totally nosedive the round. I run IMSI springs in some of my mags but I really want to keep the stock guide rod. I know IMSI has the flat coil springs but how do you keep those on a stock rod? How do you change the spring on a stock rod? I know the captured end pops in but can you remove it without screwing it up?

Link to what? ISMI? Google is your friend.

As to the factual correctness of his statements, they are true. Look at the 4th Gen Glock. Biggest difference? BIGGER HEAVIER RECOIL SPRING. Herp derr (only applies if you were questioning his legitimacy).

You might also try replacing the factory recoil spring all the goddamn time, like every 2-2.5k.

okay, I just started looking at guide rods. What is the consensus on the best one? Captured or non-captured? I have to say I am very hesitant about going non-stock for a carry firearm. Is there any drawback to the stainless steel rods? Does the metal rub on the plastic frame? Does the fact it doesn't flex cause other issues? Any help is appreciated.

If your pistol will not reliably function with a light, even with current springs and followers and a new recoil spring assembly, why not just buy a Gen4 Glock 22? Or I'm sure the Gen4 Glock 31 will be out soon enough. Heck, maybe you can even put a conversion barrel into the Gen 4 Glock 22?

The Gen4 Glock 31 is out. Been out for over a month now. As to springs on the factory plastic guiderod. The small pop in retaining plug can be jimmied out with ease and reinstalled to hold a new spring in place. After about the 4th time its garbage though.

As to metal captured guiderods. I've got a G34 that I have shot competitively since 2005 that has 137k rounds on it. It still has the captured ISMI guiderod that I put in it back then. I have changed the recoil spring probably 30 times in that period. The rod is absolutely fine. The gun has not malfunctioned more than 5 times in that time frame. It has been the most reliable pistol I own or have ever shot.
I started using heavier recoil springs in the Glocks with high pressure cartridges back about 4 years ago. They are much more manageable to shoot and they feed much more reliably. I had a Glock 31 because I had available to me all the 357sig Gold Dot I could shoot. After a days shooting of 5-600 rounds, my elbows would ache for a few days. So I started running a heavier spring. One that I took off of a G20 guiderod. It was amazing how much more comfortable the gun was to shoot. My sights tracked much better too. I had some friends who started having malfunctions with their G22 duty guns. The temporary fix was always to replace the recoil spring assembly. It is recommended by Glock to replace it every 2500 rounds. It just seemed like 1000-1500 was all they were good for. So we started running the G20 springs in the G22's and malfunctions were pretty nonexistent from that point on. Even the guns with weapon lights that would not work started working.

The issue with the weapon lights being mounted to the frame is that it stiffens the front dustcover of the frame and causing the front frame rail to not apply any resistance to the slide rails hence an even greater increase in speed over the already fast slide speed of the high pressure rounds. When the light is not attached, there is a small amount of drag creating resistance to control the speed of the slide a little more. Different rounds with different burn rates of powders tended to exacerbate the problem with or without a light. Remember the 40 cal was basically a modified 9mm. Recoil spring rates were never increased as they should have been. Now we have the 4th Generation. built around the pressure curves of the .40 and .357sig.

I shared this with Glock over the years in Smyrna. I just think they had a hard time convincing the Austrians that there might have been a small flaw. The Austrians are a weird bunch. They hate admitting they were wrong. The guys in Smyrna were always extremely receptive to any valid feedback from the field and seemed to constantly be aware. Like I said....the Austrians were their roadblock. There are a couple of guys in the technical services department that absolutely know what is going on. They just dealt with continued resistance. It took that long to get a recoil spring assembly designed around the pressure curves of the .40 and .357sig.

Take it for what it is worth. Go heavier in your recoil springs and follow the 2500 round replacement interval and your Glock should rock much better.

I'm not just a guy who shoots every once in a while. I shoot 4-5 days of the week. Most rounds out of all models of
Glocks.

Basically am I to understand that stock 17 and 22 springs are 17 pounds and the IMSI 20 pounders will work? So how many pounds is the Glock 20 spring? This is a great option and I can keep my gun totally stock!!!

The G20 spring is about 20 pounds. The ISMI 20# spring feels a little stiffer than the G20 spring.

I started using the G20 springs til I found out that ISMI made a 20# spring.

Just ordered a 20# captive for my G23, I noticed that shooting the 19, 23 and 38 side by side that the 9mm had much slower slide velocity with standard pressure 147 gr Gold dots and the GAP was downright pedestrian. I have had a few malfs due to this and am glad to see a simple and common sense fix. I hate to go anything but OEM,usually, but since Glock hasl not address the problem outside of the Gen 4, I guess I have no other recourse. I love my G23 and 15m headshots with rounds less than 1" apart are the norm, this may make things better.

00bullitt, wouldn't happen to be near FLETC would you?

Send the mags to Glock's Techincal Service.  They will install new springs, followers, and floor plates for FREE!

That ship has sailed. He already tried this fix, and it didn't work.

I've heard of G23/22 light failures but this is the first I ever heard of a 357sig/light failure.  I've put 200 rds of Gold Dots thru my G32 with Insight Procyon and no issue. Stock spring or Wolff 18#, doesn't matter. Oh and a 22 rd mag also.

But my 125 grain Corbons knocked the light completely off thursday.  Not good.

This is a Glock 22 running a 357 barrel. I don't think that matters though. I'm pretty sure it is the same setup from the factory with the exception of the 357 mag followers.

You'd be wise to save yourself any more headaches & trade for a new Gen4 G22. None of these problems with tac lights have come up.

I was having the same issue with 2 mags in my G20 with X400 mounted the last time out. One mag was an original that came with the gun and one I had bought slightly used with a Arredondo extension on it. Had 5-6 mags total that trip and consistently had problems with 2 of them.

Bought the Glock 20 spring today. I checked it against an ISMI 20 lb spring and I would say the Glock 20 is alot less, almost the same as the stock Glock 22 spring. Plus, what did you do about the extra 1/4 inch of rod stickng out the front?

I didn't use the G20 guide rod. I took the spring off and put it on the G22 guide rod.

10-4.