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Posted: 2/28/2009 10:54:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2009 2:56:20 PM EDT by BulletBait]

Just imagine this with a frame safety where the pin is and in the correct caliber.


In another part of his thread Mr. Kassnar stated that since the now discontinued MRI "Baby Eagle" line sold so poorly due to the frigging slide decocker,
CD would be importing the Frame Safety version!
Condition 1 Baby!
Furthermore, the pistol will once again be called by it's proper name, JERICHO.
All for under $650 LIST!

For those of you unfamiliar with the 45 Jericho, picture a  CZ97 with a much smaller grip and trigger reach.
I prefer pistols with a grip size/trigger reach around that of a 1911 with the long trigger and I have no problems shooting the 45 Jericho from the DA mode.

The CD forum Thread money quote:
http://www.charlesdalyforum.com/showthread.php?t=469&page=9
Straight from the horse's mouth:

Charles Daly
Head Honcho



Originally Posted by HiVelSword :
...MY only wish is that a FULL sized .45 Jericho would be offered.

The full size .45ACP is in our line. We will be producing them for delivery in late March. The factory is ready to go on this as we saw a sample during my visit to Tel Aviv a few weeks ago.

Our only worry at this point is that production at IWI and Bul could be affected by the latest call-up of the reserves. And I pray all my friends stay safe over there.
__________________
Michael Kassnar, President
K.B.I., Inc.

Manufacturers, Importers and Distributors of Charles Daly and other fine firearms.



EDIT: here's the calibers/ options quote from earlier in the thread, he was convinced later that the Full Size 45 was a must have.


Charles Daly
Head Honcho


For example, many of you have made eloquent arguments for frame mounted safeties, and several of you have made the case for the slide mounted safety/decocker. There is obviously a market for both, and someday we may build both, but we won't be building both right away.

The gun will be marketed as the Jericho, manufactured by IWI in Israel. However, under current law, it will have to also carry the marking of the importer and the importer's city and state; so it will include KBI-HBG, PA.

We will be offering 9mm in polymer and steel frames, 40S&W in polymer and steel and .45ACP in steel only. THe .45 will be in the mid-size (or as they call it, the semi-compact). Since this holds 10 rounds of 45 and the full size also can only hold 10 rounds of 45, why would you want the full size 45? Just for the increased barrel length?

All mid and full-size will have rails. Compacts will not. All will have the new LPA "Novak" style rear sights. Meprolight does make tritium sights for the Jericho and we may offer one or two with this option. Nickel is more problematic. We are working with the factory on more durable finishes.


Edited: to fix spellin and Tech.
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 12:07:04 AM EDT
dang.... nice pistol..... might get one but CC's all maxed out for now.....
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 12:46:14 AM EDT
Cool!

I got the 9mm BDE with a 3" bbl & frame decocker for a little less than $350 a couple of years ago... Nice gun! I WISH I could get the .45 now!
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 1:37:18 AM EDT
Very cool.  Methinks that'll be a geat gun, a Jericho .45ACP with properly placed controls.

I remember the actual Jericho 941.  Interesting item, convertible from 9mm to .41AE as a kit.  Kind of a cool concept.  Don't see 'em around too much anymore, although I did behold one at a funshow a couple of months ago.
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 3:33:44 AM EDT
ohfuckohfuckohfuck

That made my day, thanks for the heads up.

(As some of you may know, I've been after one of these things for years - and now here it am with a rail to boot!)
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 4:20:31 AM EDT
So Charles Daly will be selling them?
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 9:11:40 AM EDT
holy crap....I might need to buy one.....

I think I'm gonna end up blowing that enlistment bonus rather quickly
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 9:49:44 AM EDT
If they decide to produce one in 10mm, and if the gun is strong enough for full power 10mm, I'll buy one, maybe two.  If not, then I guess I'll continue waiting for the Fortis.
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 9:59:26 AM EDT
The Bren 10, the newest copy of it called the Fortis, and the Jericho/Eagle are all 75s.  There are over a dozen makers of 75s, jsut as there are for 1911s (though the Colt had a head start, first starting in the year 1911 instead of 1975).

I have an early Magnum Research Jericho 941F with the frame safety in 40; I looked for one for years before it popped up on GunBroker.  Its one of my favorites.

Frames and slides are cast by Tanfoglio in Italy, then finished by IMI in Israel.
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 12:11:33 PM EDT
The Witness line is the identical pistol, in all the same calibers, but has always had the frame mounted safety for condition one carry.  They've been available for years, and shoot just fine.  I don't get what all the hoopla is about.
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 12:42:18 PM EDT
That's really nice looking but it also looks like it weighs like 45 pounds or something.
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 2:44:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
ohfuckohfuckohfuck

That made my day, thanks for the heads up.

(As some of you may know, I've been after one of these things for years - and now here it am with a rail to boot!)


Thought it might.  Gonna be loving that 4.5bbl. full size.
The semi compact was OK. But the full size is the best IMO.

Originally Posted By Punani:
So Charles Daly will be selling them?

Yup. KBI inc is the actual importers name CD is their market brand.

Originally Posted By johnQpublik:
The Witness line is the identical pistol, in all the same calibers, but has always had the frame mounted safety for condition one carry.  They've been available for years, and shoot just fine.  I don't get what all the hoopla is about.


IWI's build quality and QC is far superior to EAA.
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 5:01:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BulletBait:
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
ohfuckohfuckohfuck

That made my day, thanks for the heads up.

(As some of you may know, I've been after one of these things for years - and now here it am with a rail to boot!)


Thought it might.  Gonna be loving that 4.5bbl. full size.
The semi compact was OK. But the full size is the best IMO.

Originally Posted By Punani:
So Charles Daly will be selling them?

Yup. KBI inc is the actual importers name CD is their market brand.

Originally Posted By johnQpublik:
The Witness line is the identical pistol, in all the same calibers, but has always had the frame mounted safety for condition one carry.  They've been available for years, and shoot just fine.  I don't get what all the hoopla is about.


IWI's build quality and QC is far superior to EAA.


Unless sometihng crazy happened I didn't hear about, EAA is just an importer. The "Witness" line is simply their branding of the Tangfolio line of licensed CZ75-derivatives.

Also, the IMI and Tangfolio designs are not identical, in terms of the lines of the frame and slide (i.e., the aesthetics and "feel" presented by the two is different). Just as the Tangfolios aren't exactly the same as the CZ75 itself in that department.

I have always liked the profile of the Jericho, and will likely be picking one of these up in 9 when they arrive.

(BTW, @ the OP's comment about "correct" caliber - the correct caliber for a Jericho is BOTH 9x19mm and .41AE. Nothing else. )
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 11:04:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Walkure:

Unless sometihng crazy happened I didn't hear about, EAA is just an importer. The "Witness" line is simply their branding of the Tangfolio line of licensed CZ75-derivatives.
True, I was typing in shorthand too much.

Also, the IMI and Tangfolio designs are not identical, in terms of the lines of the frame and slide (i.e., the aesthetics and "feel" presented by the two is different). Just as the Tangfolios aren't exactly the same as the CZ75 itself in that department.
The barrel and lock up aren't the same either.
Only the firing mechanism parts (but not the trigger itself) are the same.


I have always liked the profile of the Jericho, and will likely be picking one of these up in 9 when they arrive.

(BTW, @ the OP's comment about "correct" caliber - the correct caliber for a Jericho is BOTH 9x19mm and .41AE. Nothing else. )
BZZZZZZTTTTTT!!!!
The Jericho was specified by the IMI from the get go to be made in 45 as well.
That's why the 45 barrel fits in the slide so tightly and efficiently with no extra space but without any compromise to strength.


There used to be a great article on one of the Israeli sites about the developmental history and .MIL adoption drama surrounding the Jericho, but I can't google it up now.

Link Posted: 3/2/2009 3:46:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2009 4:22:04 AM EDT by 87GN]
Originally Posted By BulletBait:
IWI's build quality and QC is far superior to EAA.


Funny since (to my knowledge) the frames and slides are made by the same people...Tanfoglio, in Italy...
Link Posted: 3/2/2009 2:26:23 PM EDT
I have a Jericho in 45, the compact. I love it to death. Not as accurate as a 1911 but still combat worthy.
Link Posted: 3/2/2009 3:13:48 PM EDT
Very interesting pistols.  Too bad CZ only offers a rail on their biggest and smallest guns.  

Here's some more info:

http://www.israel-weapon.com/default.asp?catid={8C32EDEC-E0EA-41D0-8A73-69A1E711F583}
Link Posted: 3/2/2009 6:52:19 PM EDT
I tell myself "no more handguns for a while" and then you post this crap!
Link Posted: 3/2/2009 7:01:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BulletBait:
For those of you unfamiliar with the 45 Jericho, picture a  CZ75B with a much smaller grip and trigger reach.
I prefer pistols with a grip size/trigger reach around that of a 1911 with the long trigger and I have no problems shooting the 45 Jericho from the DA mode.


Do you mean smaller than the CZ97?  The 75 has a pretty small grip as it is.  They are nice pistols though.
Link Posted: 3/2/2009 8:40:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 87GN:
Originally Posted By BulletBait:
IWI's build quality and QC is far superior to EAA.


Funny since (to my knowledge) the frames and slides are made by the same people...Tanfoglio, in Italy...


Tanfoglio only does the forging and rough machine work (hogging out).
IWI does all the final work and fitting.
It shows when you disassemble them both and look inside.

Originally Posted By aaronrb204:
Originally Posted By BulletBait:
For those of you unfamiliar with the 45 Jericho, picture a  CZ75B with a much smaller grip and trigger reach.
I prefer pistols with a grip size/trigger reach around that of a 1911 with the long trigger and I have no problems shooting the 45 Jericho from the DA mode.


Do you mean smaller than the CZ97?


Yes, smaller than the 97
The Jericho and the CZ75B have the same size grip, but the Jericho is thinner and longer front to back.
Link Posted: 3/3/2009 10:15:19 AM EDT
Calling the Jericho's build quality "far superior" than the Tanfoglio is hyperbole, IMO.  They are much of a muchness.

I've had both.   After the Baby Eagle broke, I ditched it.  Still have the Tanfoglio.
Link Posted: 3/3/2009 10:53:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2009 10:53:47 AM EDT by CBR900]
He is right on this info.  Fact is, Ruger owns and operates its own "PIN TREE CASTING" division.  AND they make a lot of other company's 1911 frame casings.

But, you would hardly call all those 1911s "Rugers."   The fact that Tanfoglio does the casting means little about the final product or the quality of manufacture by IMI.  


Originally Posted By BulletBait:
Originally Posted By 87GN:
Originally Posted By BulletBait:
IWI's build quality and QC is far superior to EAA.


Funny since (to my knowledge) the frames and slides are made by the same people...Tanfoglio, in Italy...


Tanfoglio only does the forging and rough machine work (hogging out).
IWI does all the final work and fitting.
It shows when you disassemble them both and look inside.

Originally Posted By aaronrb204:
Originally Posted By BulletBait:
For those of you unfamiliar with the 45 Jericho, picture a  CZ75B with a much smaller grip and trigger reach.
I prefer pistols with a grip size/trigger reach around that of a 1911 with the long trigger and I have no problems shooting the 45 Jericho from the DA mode.


Do you mean smaller than the CZ97?


Yes, smaller than the 97
The Jericho and the CZ75B have the same size grip, but the Jericho is thinner and longer front to back.


Link Posted: 3/4/2009 8:07:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 1:44:03 PM EDT
I love my 941


Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:06:48 PM EDT
Ive been looking for a 941 for YEARS.

At this point I have too many CZs... but this would be hard to resist if I ever ran across one.

Link Posted: 3/4/2009 2:09:05 PM EDT
Whats the capacity, and what mags does it take?

Thanks,
Scott
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 3:11:26 PM EDT
they use a witness/EAA/Jericho mag and are 10 rounds in staggered formation.
Link Posted: 3/14/2009 9:43:32 PM EDT
so where can i buy one?
Link Posted: 3/15/2009 12:05:59 AM EDT
You can buy a 941 everywhere Jerichos are sold.
Link Posted: 3/15/2009 12:09:36 AM EDT
Seriously, they are in the pipeline.
CD promised them in march, so as it usually works with new guns, you can add a month or two.

Probably April. If it drags past May, I'll be pissed.
Link Posted: 3/15/2009 3:12:19 AM EDT
ummm, nifty? I guess?
Link Posted: 3/15/2009 10:34:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BulletBait:
Seriously, they are in the pipeline.
CD promised them in march, so as it usually works with new guns, you can add a month or two.

Probably April. If it drags past May, I'll be pissed.


can you give me a link, i cant find anything on the CD website?
Link Posted: 3/15/2009 2:04:27 PM EDT
I quoted Mr. Kassner (the CEO) in my first post.
Link Posted: 3/15/2009 2:18:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DKing:
they use a witness/EAA/Jericho mag and are 10 rounds in staggered formation.


Well I got mags covered already then
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 6:54:21 PM EDT
btt b4 archive
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 7:28:23 PM EDT
Just to update those interested.  The current crop of Jerichos will come only in slide safety/decocker for now.  The frame safety version may be brought over at some point in the future, but they want to keep the line the same as it was before until they get a better foot in the market.

Charles Daly is already working to do a much better job of product support and promotion.  The new website is HERE and as mentioned before there is a dedicated part of the charles daly forum for the jericho.  Additionally they are importing holsters from isreal and are going to have them available for purchace on the web site.  This is a big step up as there aren't alot of accessories available for the baby eagle, and Magnum Research had a very poor selection of accessories, just hogue wraparound grips, and some low quality courdoa holsters.  There are also some new nightsights that are supposed to be available for the new novak style sights.

I have already aquired one of the new Jericho 941s in .40S&W.

Here's a Pic
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 7:31:37 PM EDT
Ummmm... I see the 9 but where's the 41?
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 3:36:33 AM EDT
Slide mounted safeties are an abominiation.  Kudos to Sig and Taurus for being DA auto makers who understand where a safety / decock lever ought to be.  I've never understood why the Jericho has always been imported with the slide mounted safety; but I'll bet lawyers were behind it.  

With the slide mounted version, you can now have the true Israeli Servcie Pistol, or what used to be.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 5:12:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 3030ai:
but I'll bet lawyers were behind it.  .

No we weren't I promise.

Link Posted: 4/30/2009 9:51:33 AM EDT
Agreed! That new .45 caliber 75 has the safety right where God and John Moses Browning intended it to be: ON THE FRAME!   Nice looking 75; might have to work it into the budget!


Originally Posted By 3030ai:
Slide mounted safeties are an abominiation.  Kudos to Sig and Taurus for being DA auto makers who understand where a safety / decock lever ought to be.  I've never understood why the Jericho has always been imported with the slide mounted safety; but I'll bet lawyers were behind it.  

With the slide mounted version, you can now have the true Israeli Servcie Pistol, or what used to be.


Link Posted: 4/30/2009 11:00:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DKing:
they use a witness/EAA/Jericho mag and are 10 rounds in staggered formation.



Uh oh,  that's not good.   I was informed by smart people on the internet that a .45ACP pistol that only holds 10 rounds has a pathetically small capacity, to the point of being an inferior design.

Link Posted: 4/30/2009 12:08:27 PM EDT
so no frame safeties? fail
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 1:17:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 3030ai:
Slide mounted safeties are an abominiation.  Kudos to Sig and Taurus for being DA auto makers who understand where a safety / decock lever ought to be.  I've never understood why the Jericho has always been imported with the slide mounted safety; but I'll bet lawyers were behind it.  

With the slide mounted version, you can now have the true Israeli Servcie Pistol, or what used to be.


While I agree that the slide safety is the poorer option, the "baby" Desert Eagle was imported this way so it would have the same manual of arms as the big Desert Eagle.  The fact is that Magnum Research has never seemed to pursue the personal defense aspect of the firearms they sell.  The BFR (big bore single action revolver) and the Desert Eagle are range toys or hunting pistols.  People buy these guns mostly for novelty.  Their most recent marketing campain had the slogan "The Science of Kaboom!".  Pure idiocy there, a little market research would have revealed that "Kaboom" is slang for exploding malfunctioning firearms.

In the future we may see the proper frame safety, but not if the current version doesn't sell and KBI can't make any money on the line.  Charles Daly even suggested that there was talk of a combination frame safety/decocker that might be developed to get the best of both a easy to reach frame safety and double action hamer down on a chambered round (just a rumour)
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 9:58:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mercdank:
so no frame safeties? fail


Frame safeties are on the way.
Read my OP.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 10:06:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By DKing:
they use a witness/EAA/Jericho mag and are 10 rounds in staggered formation.



Uh oh,  that's not good.   I was informed by smart people on the internet that a .45ACP pistol that only holds 10 rounds has a pathetically small capacity, to the point of being an.


What Greywater commando typed that shit?

Just about any 45acp mag over 10 rounds makes the grip circumference bigger than a 1911's.
A historically proven way to be an inferior design.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 8:57:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BulletBait:
Originally Posted By mercdank:
so no frame safeties? fail


Frame safeties are on the way.
Read my OP.


i know but i dont like the sound of this:
Originally Posted By JustOneMore:
Just to update those interested.  The current crop of Jerichos will come only in slide safety/decocker for now.  The frame safety version may be brought over at some point in the future, but they want to keep the line the same as it was before until they get a better foot in the market.....


Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:53:29 PM EDT
That's catch 22.

They sell less than the other CZ types because of the frigging slide safety.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 7:22:10 PM EDT
my dreams are coming true right before my eyes!
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 7:43:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
ohfuckohfuckohfuck

That made my day, thanks for the heads up.

(As some of you may know, I've been after one of these things for years - and now here it am with a rail to boot!)


Sweet!  i'll get one to go along with my Springfield Loaded pistols!
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