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Posted: 2/14/2012 7:59:32 AM EDT
[#1]
It's a niche gun. It's a very low volume gun. Nobody else makes anything like it, and even the ammo is available only from FNH.
All these factors make the 57 a high margin pistol. That's just the way business works. Az |
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Posted: 2/14/2012 10:04:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Anybody get around to making a load that actually meets FBI minimums AND causes significant tissue disruption yet? I've been hearing rumors for years about how badass the next one will be but no one produces.
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Posted: 2/14/2012 2:32:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
It's a niche gun. It's a very low volume gun. Nobody else makes anything like it, and even the ammo is available only from FNH. All these factors make the 57 a high margin pistol. That's just the way business works. Az Not true, Elite Ammo is a custom 5.7x28 ammo maker |
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Posted: 2/14/2012 2:34:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Anybody get around to making a load that actually meets FBI minimums AND causes significant tissue disruption yet? I've been hearing rumors for years about how badass the next one will be but no one produces. S4M may fit what you're looking for. The next batch of it should be available in march. |
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Posted: 2/15/2012 6:55:36 AM EDT
[#5]
That looks like a Brassfetcher video. If so, those blocks are one inch and spaced one inch apart. That puts the penetration at less than 9". I want to like the cartridge because it does have a lot to offer but it just doesn't seem able to perform on par with more traditional handgun rounds.
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Posted: 2/15/2012 8:27:58 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's a niche gun. It's a very low volume gun. Nobody else makes anything like it, and even the ammo is available only from FNH. All these factors make the 57 a high margin pistol. That's just the way business works. Az Not true, Elite Ammo is a custom 5.7x28 ammo maker I stand corrected. Az |
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Posted: 2/15/2012 9:02:30 AM EDT
[#7]
While death on rabbits & squirrels, the 5.7 round is not a traditional SD pistol round. Yet police forces buy SBR AR's, throwing light .223" bullets @ 2200 fps, and we well know the casualty toll at Fort Hood.
It would certainly seem to be a capable SD round, but I've not seen a comparison and explanation of the wounding mechanism to other "heavy, slow" pistol SD rounds. Gig 'em, backbencher |
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Posted: 2/15/2012 9:38:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
That looks like a Brassfetcher video. If so, those blocks are one inch and spaced one inch apart. That puts the penetration at less than 9". I want to like the cartridge because it does have a lot to offer but it just doesn't seem able to perform on par with more traditional handgun rounds. Here is a better video with the results showing the rounds going up to 15" Well the video linking is not working, here is the direct link EDIT: The gel tests start at about 1:30 in. |
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Posted: 2/15/2012 9:39:50 AM EDT
[#9]
60gr soft points (typical LE load) out of a 10.5" AR cause dramatically more tissue disruption than any handgun round while still penetrating 14" or more at indoor distances. I have yet to see a 5.7 round that is capable of causing significant tissue disruption, while meeting minimum penetration depths. There are loads that can do either but not both. There ought to be a capable load out there. The numbers seem to be there but I'm not smart enough to know the reason that someone hasn't done it yet. Until it happens, the 5.7 is to me an interesting but expensive cartridge, unsuited for defense.
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Posted: 2/15/2012 9:59:41 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
That looks like a Brassfetcher video. If so, those blocks are one inch and spaced one inch apart. That puts the penetration at less than 9". I want to like the cartridge because it does have a lot to offer but it just doesn't seem able to perform on par with more traditional handgun rounds. Here is a better video with the results showing the rounds going up to 15" Well the video linking is not working, here is the direct link EDIT: The gel tests start at about 1:30 in. VERY cool. Assuming the gel was properly calibrated, this is much better than anything I've seen yet. Still, the penetration and fragmentation was somewhat inconsistent with 11", 12.5" and 15". One inch short of the FBI minimum doesn't seem that big of a deal to me but the sometimes frag nasty and sometimes just jacket separation is somewhat concerning. I'd rather have a consistently mediocre cartridge than an occasional hand grenade. Also, I couldn't find anywhere that he mentions whether the gel shots were with the FiveseveN or the AR57. Much more impressive if it was with the former but even if the latter, that means that an SBR'd PS-90 would finally be a useful HD weapon. It is also heartening to know that the handloader CAN put together something that is useful. I'm not a convert yet, but I'm getting there. |
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Posted: 2/15/2012 10:07:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That looks like a Brassfetcher video. If so, those blocks are one inch and spaced one inch apart. That puts the penetration at less than 9". I want to like the cartridge because it does have a lot to offer but it just doesn't seem able to perform on par with more traditional handgun rounds. Here is a better video with the results showing the rounds going up to 15" Well the video linking is not working, here is the direct link EDIT: The gel tests start at about 1:30 in. VERY cool. Assuming the gel was properly calibrated, this is much better than anything I've seen yet. Still, the penetration and fragmentation was somewhat inconsistent with 11", 12.5" and 15". One inch short of the FBI minimum doesn't seem that big of a deal to me but the sometimes frag nasty and sometimes just jacket separation is somewhat concerning. I'd rather have a consistently mediocre cartridge than an occasional hand grenade. Also, I couldn't find anywhere that he mentions whether the gel shots were with the FiveseveN or the AR57. Much more impressive if it was with the former but even if the latter, that means that an SBR'd PS-90 would finally be a useful HD weapon. It is also heartening to know that the handloader CAN put together something that is useful. I'm not a convert yet, but I'm getting there. At the 3 minute mark, it shows the shooter in the upper right hand side shooting a Five Seven hand gun |
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Posted: 2/15/2012 10:12:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Good catch. It's probably safe to assume they were all from the handgun, then. I'd like to see some from the 12" now. One would expect the results to be better but sometimes higher velocity causes faster frag and shallower penetration. It would be nice if there were a load that performed well in both pistol, SBR, and rifle length barrels. For now, 10mm fills my "holy shit that's expensive" pistol ammo niche.
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Posted: 2/15/2012 10:18:44 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Good catch. It's probably safe to assume they were all from the handgun, then. I'd like to see some from the 12" now. One would expect the results to be better but sometimes higher velocity causes faster frag and shallower penetration. It would be nice if there were a load that performed well in both pistol, SBR, and rifle length barrels. For now, 10mm fills my "holy shit that's expensive" pistol ammo niche. I know what you mean there, but I had surgery on my firing hand and wasn't able to fire a 40 anymore without major discomfort. So, the minor recoil of this weapon is perfect for me and after all the researching I have been doing has me liking it more and more. Now I need to scrounge up the funds to buy one  Damned things cost an arm and 2 legs.
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Posted: 2/15/2012 6:40:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's a niche gun. It's a very low volume gun. Nobody else makes anything like it, and even the ammo is available only from FNH. All these factors make the 57 a high margin pistol. That's just the way business works. Az Not true, Elite Ammo is a custom 5.7x28 ammo maker How about decent ammo I don't have to wait until march for? Or better yet, buy in a store? |
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Posted: 2/15/2012 7:15:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's a niche gun. It's a very low volume gun. Nobody else makes anything like it, and even the ammo is available only from FNH. All these factors make the 57 a high margin pistol. That's just the way business works. Az Not true, Elite Ammo is a custom 5.7x28 ammo maker How about decent ammo I don't have to wait until march for? Or better yet, buy in a store? Well if you're an LEO you can get SS198LF which would be my next choice for SD ammo for 5.7 Someone commented on a youtube video that RWS is making 5.7 ammunition, but I can't find squat to verify that. |
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Posted: 2/15/2012 7:28:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: That looks like a Brassfetcher video. If so, those blocks are one inch and spaced one inch apart. That puts the penetration at less than 9". I want to like the cartridge because it does have a lot to offer but it just doesn't seem able to perform on par with more traditional handgun rounds. IIRC those are 10" 20% blocks that brass fetchers normally uses. We'd have to know the temp of the 20% block to know if the 1:1 relationship can be made. Of course in my totally non scientific tests, my 230gr +P HST only penetrated 9" of pork shoulder, whereas my 50gr CBST from my FSN did 10+" (ended in the water jug behind the meat), and the cavity in the tissue was as big if not slightly bigger than the HST.. Again totally unscientific due to variations in tissue density from piggie to piggie :) |
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Posted: 2/15/2012 9:15:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Apparently, they do quite well against Cylon Centurions.
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Posted: 2/16/2012 3:23:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's a niche gun. It's a very low volume gun. Nobody else makes anything like it, and even the ammo is available only from FNH. All these factors make the 57 a high margin pistol. That's just the way business works. Az Not true, Elite Ammo is a custom 5.7x28 ammo maker How about decent ammo I don't have to wait until march for? Or better yet, buy in a store? Well if you're an LEO you can get SS198LF which would be my next choice for SD ammo for 5.7 Someone commented on a youtube video that RWS is making 5.7 ammunition, but I can't find squat to verify that. That is almost as irrelevant as the EA ammo that I'd have to wait months for at best. 
Damn. I'm trying hard to justify getting one of these |
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:36:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Here is another link from the 5.7 forums of gel and a pork shoulder test of the more widely available rounds.
EDIT: The EA stuff seems to out perform the FN made ammo. |
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Posted: 2/16/2012 6:51:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's a niche gun. It's a very low volume gun. Nobody else makes anything like it, and even the ammo is available only from FNH. All these factors make the 57 a high margin pistol. That's just the way business works. Az Not true, Elite Ammo is a custom 5.7x28 ammo maker How about decent ammo I don't have to wait until march for? Or better yet, buy in a store? Well if you're an LEO you can get SS198LF which would be my next choice for SD ammo for 5.7 Someone commented on a youtube video that RWS is making 5.7 ammunition, but I can't find squat to verify that. That is almost as irrelevant as the EA ammo that I'd have to wait months for at best. Damn. I'm trying hard to justify getting one of these well something you have to expect from a niche caliber gun. I have to wait 6-8 weeks to purchase federal HST, which is a premium SD round. Same wait or less for EA ammo. |
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Posted: 2/17/2012 6:03:14 AM EDT
[#21]
nevermind
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