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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/20/2004 5:33:32 PM EST
Anyone have experence with it? Looks cool and from what I've been told it's great mayby one of my next pistols.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 7:08:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 7:19:08 PM EST by p99guy]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/myTopics.html?b=1&f=5
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=212064

these are two threads that will keep you reading for a while, I own one and over time have found out a few things. Just as a 7.62x25 out of a CZ52..the 57 with the Hollow point civy round has no problems making swiss cheese out of Level 2 body armor. The bullet very consistantly tumbles also. The Pistol is very accurate, light recoil. Yet to see what the final verdict is on the pistol's ability to stop. the bullet out of the 57 only drops 5" at 100 yards, so its flat shooting and may have some hunting application when a scope mount comes out. FN is working on a semi auto carbine model of the P90 PDW. so we will see more of this round in the future. which means cheaper per box, more loadings etc.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 6:53:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 6:53:25 PM EST by nf9648]
When do we get a official FN Five seveN section on the forum? Seems like we get enough questions each week, at least one new thread every few days.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 3:20:06 AM EST
The guys at CMMG in MO have them and shoot them. You might want to hit them up for info. They seem very happy with their performance.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 9:55:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 10:01:21 AM EST by DmL5]
We do need an FN forum section here. Then post all BHP, 40-9, 5-7, etc threads in there.

But I doubt it will be done, what with the moderators moving 5-7 topics to the AR15 Ammunition Section.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:28:10 AM EST
nf...your going to have to get 20rds mags now :) x2 the fun!...and a true poopstorm on the wrong end.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:33:10 PM EST
The assholes at impactguns.com doubled their price right before September 13th, now I need to find another supplier. That pisses me off that they did that to try and make a buck, my money is definitely going elsewhere. Ive been waiting for the last 4 months to get their hi-caps at the $33 price tag that theyve been advertising to LEOs. Theres a sporting goods/gunshop on Singleton Blvd where I bought a couple 10 round mags a few months ago, you wouldnt know if they carry the 20 rounders in stock for a decent price would you? Its off the corner of Singleton and Sylvan Ave, you probably know the place.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:10:27 PM EST
try cheaper than dirt in fort worth 817-625-7171 as they are FN LEO dealers and have them on the shelf. they have both model 20 rounders, so be sure to ask for the IOM mag....or you will not be a happy camper when it fits but dont have the bump/shelf to work the mag disconnector.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:31:48 PM EST
Is the IOM the version w/ the mag safety? Can civies own the non mag safety version if so who has these available? Also CMMG and Botach have the 20rd IOM mags available. Trying to find as much information about these as considering gettign one. How does the grip on these compare to "normal" pistol like saig/glock/beretta etc?
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 6:08:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 6:13:08 AM EST by p99guy]
Keller,
there are three basic models to the 57 series

1. the original DAO, fixed sight, no mag safety...sold only to departments/not even idividual LEO's(though nothing illegal about a civy having one. Has been discontinued last I heard.)

2.The "Tactical" Single action trigger, fixed sights, no magazine safety..sold only to departments/not idividual LEO's ..sometime you seen on listed on auctionarms.com or gunbroker.com for around a 1000.00

3 The Tactical IOM(individual officers model) single action trigger, MAGAZINE SAFETY,adjustable sights..otherwise the same as #2. the magazine has a "bump" on the side
that pushes up on the mag safety when inserted and allows pistol to fire except for the bump magazine is the same as #2(and can be used in #2........but the #2mag WITHOUT the "bump will not work in #3 as it inserts just fine but doesnt disconnect the safety.

the grip isnt for small hands as the round is as long as a .357mag...but if you are comfortable with beretta 92's you can live with it....but the recoil is so light you will be able to shoot it ok regardless
and at 1.7 pounds loaded with 20 rounds, its quite easy to carry in a IWB type holster, you almost forget its there depite being the size of a COLT 1911.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 1:57:22 PM EST
Get one!!

And yes to the FN forum.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 10:11:14 AM EST
Looking high and low for 20 round FN Five-Seven Magazines, seems like no one has any left. Dealers say they will hopefully have some in 3 or 4 weeks. Guess I'm looking one week too late.
Cheaper than Dirt told me they are getting 100, hope they are right.
JR

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 1:52:22 PM EST
For what price per mag?
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 2:45:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 2:47:39 PM EST by JackDRipper]
Seen them listed from $30 to $49. Most are priced in the $30's. Hope they don't raise their prices like Impact did.
JR
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:59:30 PM EST
I was made a gift of a Tactical IOM today but did not get a chance to shoot it. Included were four boxes of the civi ammo. I've read some of the threads questioning the lethality of the round and I have to admit the rounds looks kinda puny compared to, well, damned near everything that is of the centerfire persuasion. I will keep an open mind though...the first time I was exposed to the .223/AR-15 system, I was a little shakey with the whole concept. Boy was I wrong about that.
This time of year we are getting our deer camps in shape down in South Texas which includes trapping out some of the damned feral hogs which are trying to take over. I generally end up with a good range of sizes up to maybe 200 lbs. I will do some penetration tests on them in the next couple of weeks and get back to you guys with the results...is it ok to post those kind of pictures here?
Anybody know where I can pick up a case of ammo? Is FN the only company which loads for the round? I have ABSOLUTELY vowed that I will NEVER try to reload the 5.7x28...for now at least...but I have to admit to a morbid curiosity about components and dies. Anyone have any information?
One last thing, are night sight available?

Thanks for any help,
PECOS

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:52:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 5:55:13 PM EST by nf9648]
Pecos, its ok to post those pics if you can get me some info on shooting hogs in Texas... I dont have a place to shoot that I know for sure will produce good size hogs, Im up at Ft Hood but Im willing to travel on a weekend to go shoot some animals. On the dies for 5.7x28, go to midwayusa.com, they sell the rcbs dies for the round, i dont know any source of actual 5.7x28 bullets although you can experiment with .223 and similar size bullets to see which fits best. I believe .223 (5.56mm) will be a near if not direct fit since the US measures calibers differently than europeans.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 6:00:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 6:02:54 PM EST by mkgunz]
try these people. My brother might buy a FiveseveN and P90 set for his swat team. I'll let you know if he does and what he thinks.

FN
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 3:37:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 3:57:39 AM EST by p99guy]
the Bullet is .224 diameter, and in south Tx I would call GT Distributers in austin as they have ammo for the 5.7x28 . and swing by cheaper than dirt if around FtWorth as they have 5.7 ammo on the shelf. Olin Winchester is the maker of the ammunition you have in FN marked boxes. Havelina hogs would be a good test, and all of us would be very intrested in the results (good or bad) that you see from the SS192 cartridge ...would love to see the pics even if you had to email them rather than post. Oh, and welcome to the 57 club :)
also if you find the grip a little too slick for your tastes ..the instant cure is skateboard tape! and it works on glocks and the like as well......found out about it on a Browning Hi Power forum and went and purchased some...
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:21:28 AM EST
Its nice that more and more people are acquiring Five-seveN's of their own -- that means more data (like p99guy's test) about a gun which most know little about.

FN forum section!
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:31:53 PM EST
NF,
What do you do up at Ft Hood?

P99.
Why were those guys ragging your ass over at the other thread after you were generous enough to sacrifice an $800 vest? You would THINK they would show a bit of appreciation. Go figure...

Pecos
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:45:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 6:50:18 PM EST by innocent_bystander]
American Rifleman, Jan 2000, p. 4) from Dr. Marvin Fackler:

"The article 'FN's FiveseveN System (No.v/Dec. 1999 p.40) seriously misrepresents the wounding capacity of the 31-gr. P90 bullet. Claiming it "produces a wound cavity that is similar to that of the 5.56 mm NATO ammunition is an absurd exaggeration. The 31-gr. P90 bullet has only half the weight of the M16A2 bullet - and its velocity is about 1000 f.p.s. less. (The reference was intended to convey that it is an FMJ design, not that it has equal energy and wounding characteristics to the 5.56x45 mm cartridge. - The Eds).

The amount of tissue disruption propduced by the P90 bullet is less than one-third of that produced by a well-designed expanding 9x19mm handgun bullet. And the P90 produces a temporary cavity of only about 8cm diameter - smaller than that of an expanding 9mm handgun bullet. Most of the P90's bullet's wounding potential is wasted in producing a temporary cavity that is too small to be a reliable wounding mechanism. The P90 bullet doesn't even come close to matching the wounding capacity of a well-designed, expanding 9mm handgun bullet.

The light recoil of the P90 should hardly come as a surprise: The momentum and kinetic energy of its bullets are only about half that of the .22 Hornet bullet. The P90 bullet's wounding potential is about equal to that of the .22 WMR bullet. The laws of physics cannot be denied - minimal recoil is inconsistent with maximal tissue disruption.

For the military, where any wound is often all that is required to cause an enemy soldier to leave the battlefield, perhaps this tiny P90 bullet is OK. Law enforcement officers are often faced with armed violent criminals at close range. In that scenario, a bullet capable of disrupting a significant amount of tissue is needed: One must incapacitate a criminal, a minor wound will not suffice. By no stretch of the imagination is the P90 bullet adequate for that task.

References for further reading in the Wound Ballistics Review are: Vol. 3, No. 3, 1998 (pp. 36-37) 'Corrections on the Wound Ballistics of the current FN P90 bullet'; Vol. 3, No. 1, 1997 (pp. 44-45) "more on the bizarre FN P90'; and Vol. 1., No. 1, 1991 (p. 46) 'Description of the first generation P90.' These may be obtained from the IWBA by calling (310) 640-6065, or its website at www.IWBA.com. (http://www.IWBA.com.)

Marvin L. Fackler, MD, FACS,
President, Int'l Wound Ballistics Ass'n.

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 3:52:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 1:24:54 PM EST by p99guy]
lol the really funny part of it is being that Fackler works for the Government on projects and hates this round.....when it was designed by folks just like him working for the U.S. Army as well(wonder why they didnt just ask Fackler). Most all of the hate mail is based on a couple of different articles written by Fackler and separate articles by(Brown?) which only cover the early model of the SS190 and was written before the SS192 exsisted. Though I dont think this is a do all end all caliber(none are) the truth is somewhere in the middle. Now the folks on this board and others, that are rabid in hatred of the round generally have only glanced through the Fackler stuff and that is what they are quoating...it not that they have ever fired a single round of the stuff themselves. And when a test is run showing it to do something that goes against their "religion" ,it is ridiculed flat to death. Fackler has stated that its bad and we will hear nothing to the contrairy(covering ears/closingeyesCRAZYTALKCRAZYTALKNANANANANANANAAN­ANANANANA)
its the poop I put up with But thats why I welcome the upcoming piggy tests...it hasnt been done and written about before...heck its ground breaking! because good or bad we will know more about the subject. But if it works ok...be prepared to be called a liar, and that you somehow rigged whatever you did. And if it dont work very well you will have happy campers telling you "told ya so rofl". But WE will appeciate your effort , no matter what the outcome.

I was reading an article about the .224 BOZ cartidge and it was intresting in some of the figures given.

.224BOZ 55gr 6 3/4inch barrel @muzzle 2000fps
9mm fmj approx@ muzzle 1138fps
M16 55grM193 20inch barrel@250yards 2000fps
FN 57 31gr SS190, 4.90in barrel@muzzle 2133fps

they went on to say that the FN57 with a 55gr bullet full power load would be approx 1,321fps by calculation.
which is about right, as the 5.7x28 subsonic AP is 55 grains and is what the terrorist leader in Lima Peru was punched though a L3 vest with(suppressed P90).
The lightest bullet loaded for the .224BOZ is 30grains, and the AP is 55gr.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:52:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By p99guy:
which is about right, as the 5.7x28 subsonic is 66 grains and is what the terrorist leader in Lima Peru was punched though a L3 vest with(suppressed P90).



Surely the round used in the suppressed P-90 was an SS-190. I doubt the Sb-193 (sub-sonic version) would penetrate a Level III vest AND kill him in one shot like it did. I believe the 5.7mm Subsonic is 55 gr. @ 1000 fps fired from the P-90 -- and FN intended it to be this velocity to make it subsonic, so they used less powder charge and a heavier bullet than the SS-190. So I think the reason why the 55 gr. 5.7mm is 1/2 the velocity is only because FN intended it to be subsonic. I think they could up the weight of the SS-190 to 50 gr. and only lose a couple hundred fps, but I may be wrong.

Didn't you say that the SS-192 uses a heavier bullet than the SS-190? All the 5-7 haters go around saying that the SS-192 is 28 gr. @ 2000 fps, but I don't see why a lighter bullet would mean less velocity than the 2133 fps of the SS190. How much heavier is the SS-192?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 12:56:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 1:20:45 PM EST by p99guy]
the SS193 heavy ball is classified as AP(and your right, it is 55gr) and is built with the AP steel nosecone...thats why you and I cant buy it off the shelf. If you used SS190 through your suppressor...it is going to be as loud as a un-suppressed .22pistol ,from the bullet making a sonic boom like a little jet fighter.
in fact if you stood and fired a round down a line of telephone poles you would hear (powpowpowpow) as the wave hit the poles as it passed by them. so no it wouldnt make more sense for them to use SS190 in a hostage resque where you may have to shoot a BG and not alert the 9 BG's in the next room. The SS193 in this situation did kill....as you have stated it went right through his heart. here is a handy comparison chart, and look in the P90 section at ammo. SS190 is 31gr.

http://remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/sp90/tables.htm
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 1:30:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 2:53:53 PM EST by DmL5]
I believe the official designation is Sb-193, but I may be wrong; the link you posted said SS-193, but I get alot more results on Google.com when I search Sb193 than when I search SS193.

I guess it would make some sense for them to use the SS-190 in the suppressor just to quiet the round a little bit but still get the superior performance. I would be VERY surprised and impressed if the Sb-193 (or whatever it is called) is capable of penetrating Level III body armor AND penetrating deep enough to kill, regardless of the tip composition. 1000 fps is not too fast.

The incident in which the heart was shot was a different one -- the Houston, TX shooting. The only information about the Lima, Peru shooting was that he was shot once in the chest with a suppressed P-90 through his Level III (I've also heard it was IIIA) armor and died immmediately.



Is this legal to buy and own?

www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6100708
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:06:50 PM EST
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6100736

lol he has AP-T ammo for sale too.......no, technically that isnt civy legal ammo
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:56:09 PM EST
So tell me more about this .224 Boz...do any of you guys actually have one? I read an article about it three years or so ago in Combat Handguns (I think) magazine and vowed to get a Glock 20 converted to the round when it all got sorted out and standardized but never heard anymore about it.
Part two...Why does the Five-seveN get so much hate mail? Is it because it will punch a vest or because it is a "sub" caliber...or both? Such vehemence seems strange to me. Heck, my affection for my .500 Linebaugh (which will punch a vest like nobody's business!) doesn't keep me from wanting to experiment with the FN. Who is this Fackler guy anyway? Did ya'll say he works for the government? I don't mean to be contrary, but doesn't that in itself kinda make you look for coroboration of what the boy says before you accept it as fact? Just wondering...
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 3:40:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By p99guy:
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6100736

lol he has AP-T ammo for sale too.......no, technically that isnt civy legal ammo



There is always tracer and subsonic rounds sold on auctionarms and gunbroker, just not for a price I am willing to pay. The tracers look pretty mean with the red and black tips.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 9:32:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 9:40:35 AM EST by p99guy]
Pecos , I dont think anybody much got a .224BOZ over here goverment or otherwise....as little as have been about it lately...I think it died, It didnt help that it was invented in the UK with the laws they have plus all of our importation rules. It may pop back up one day, maybee slightly changed and called something else. But for right now the FN57 ia as close in concept as we can run down to the store and get. Been out looking for the javalinas yet? we egerly await your report!
On your part two..yep sub caliber is the problem until proven otherwise.....folks are nervious bout the consept of a 22 cal fight'en pisto-ly whupped up by fur'eners...heck it aint got not cylinder ta put .45LC in or a butt that can hammer fences with, and on top o'that falls out of my 1873 holster ever dag nab time!
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:29:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By p99guy:
Pecos , I dont think anybody much got a .224BOZ over here goverment or otherwise....as little as have been about it lately...I think it died, It didnt help that it was invented in the UK with the laws they have plus all of our importation rules. It may pop back up one day, maybee slightly changed and called something else. But for right now the FN57 ia as close in concept as we can run down to the store and get. Been out looking for the javalinas yet? we egerly await your report!
On your part two..yep sub caliber is the problem until proven otherwise.....folks are nervious bout the consept of a 22 cal fight'en pisto-ly whupped up by fur'eners...heck it aint got not cylinder ta put .45LC in or a butt that can hammer fences with, and on top o'that falls out of my 1873 holster ever dag nab time!



Ive gotta do a hunter safety course for texas, my Iowa one is lost and I dont think it transferred over anyways. On a side note, found a couple sigs to buy today, gonna wait til after xmas.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 6:24:12 PM EST
Nf, why do you have to do a hunter safety course here? I had one as part of FFA in High school...but the subject never came up again in decades.....walk into walmart and buy the old deer hunting Lic and nobody asks (last I bought one) You might ask parks & wildlife down there as it might have changed . We dont have the same game laws as some states....such as blaze orange vests with your permit pinned in the middle of your back etc.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 3:57:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By p99guy:
Nf, why do you have to do a hunter safety course here? I had one as part of FFA in High school...but the subject never came up again in decades.....walk into walmart and buy the old deer hunting Lic and nobody asks (last I bought one) You might ask parks & wildlife down there as it might have changed . We dont have the same game laws as some states....such as blaze orange vests with your permit pinned in the middle of your back etc.



Im doing my deer hunting on Ft Hood, and they require you do their course at the skeet range. I have a buddy with land out by Lampasas where I will be shooting hogs, but I want to make sure I have my ducks in a row just in case I run into a game warden.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:53:28 AM EST
Call the Iowa fish and game people. They should be able to find your number for you. All states accept hunter safety courses for other states.
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