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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/1/2006 10:32:17 AM EDT
On 1911's, what are the advantages and disadvantes of having an external extractor vs. a internal extractor?

I'm really interested in the SW1911 but don't know how reliable the external extractor is or if I would be better suited with a Kimber of Springfield that has an internal extractor.

The only disadvantage to the external extractor that I know of is that it takes away from the look of the gun, but performance and reliability wise I don't know what the differences between internal and external are.

Thanks
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:40:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 10:41:37 AM EDT by 45ProCarry]
The external extractors on S & W and Sigs seem to work quite well. The externals on the Kimbers SUCK. Lots of horror stories on 1911forum.com I personally have had 4 Kimbers. 3 had internal extractors. They work flawlessly. 1 had an external extractor. After a trip back to the factory and a trip to a well known gunsmith on my nickel, I still had problems with it. I got rid of that pistol.

Internal extractors you can tune/adjust and replace yourself. External extractors you can't.

Smith and Wesson and Sig GSR are the only 1911's that I would buy with external extractors.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:45:19 AM EDT
Buy the internal extractor. If you buy the external extractor you will only encourage further bad behavior by 1911 manufactures.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:51:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jcp:
Buy the internal extractor. If you buy the external extractor you will only encourage further bad behavior by 1911 manufactures.

The SW1911 which is what i'm most interested in is only available with an external extractor.

I'm trying to decide between an SW1911, a Kimber Stainless II, and a Springfield Loaded. Reliability is my #1 concern. What exactly are the advantages and disadvantages to having an internal vs. external extractor? Is one easier to adjust, clean, take apart, etc.?

I also heard that some of John Browning's later designs all had external extractors, so having on a a SW1911 wouldn't be blasphemy.

Thanks
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:19:19 AM EDT

18 Apr 05

Of Kimber and the USMC:

Kimber 1911s, recently ordered by the US Marine Corps, all have INTERNAL extractors. The Marine Corps specified this, because they believe in the inherent superiority of the original Browning design. They displayed no interest in "modern," external extractors, nor did they display interest in the (Series-80) firing pin safety, opting instead for the original, Series-70 design.

Most manufacturers currently producing 1911 pistols make them with external

extractors. However, external extractors have led to no end of extraction problems; problems that never manifested themselves with the original, Browning design (internal extractor). Kimber 1911s equipped with external extractor s have been particularly plagued with extractor and extraction difficulties.

Kimber's "Warrior" model is currently the only one produced (for public consumption) that comes with the original, internal extractor. All Kimber' s other models have an external extractor. If you want a Kimber, the "Warrior" is the one to get. The USMC is right!

/John

- John Farnam - http://www.defense-training.com/quips/18Apr05.html
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:26:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 12:27:18 PM EDT by JasonBurton]
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:35:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:58:50 PM EDT
Cool thread.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:03:02 PM EDT
All external extractors are proprietary. Kimber probably has gone through a half dozen "proprietary" extractors. There is nothing inherently wrong with an external extractor if it funtions properly (ie Glocks). The reason I prefer internal extractors on a 1911 is you can buy them from many sources and with a little (sometimes no) tuning, you are good to go. With a proprietary external extractor you have to deal directly with the company that manufactured it if there is a problem. Best internal extractor IMHO is Wilson's Bulletproof extractor. Aside from being extrenmely well made they have a lifetime warranty. I have heard many good things about Smith and Wesson's line of 1911s which have external extractors.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:40:58 PM EDT
I can change an internal extractor in the field in about 5 minutes TOPS, If I had one tuned and ready to go it would take less then a minute unless I was fumble fingered with the FP retainer. I've yet to see an external extractor made by ANY company even come close. The internal design is a GREAT design, especially in a military pistol, but if it is made from cheap metal, wrong processes, and incorrect specs it becomes a POS. For lack of spending $20 on a good one, way to many companies routinely use a $2 shit MIM piece of absolute JUNK that won't hold a set, and does not work properly from day one.Say what you want about MIM, but this is one place that it is totally inappropriate and a known reliability problem from day one. Casting is just as bad.

I won't comment much on external one's as none of mine are external. I would prefer to be able to have a selection of companies to purchase parts as needed rather then fighting with the maker who wants it sent to one of their repair facilities. All I will say is the parts are damn little and EASY to lose if you ever take one apart.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:33:44 PM EDT
fxntime, you took the words right out of my mouth.

External extractor = solution in search of a problem


I can change an internal extractor in the field in about 5 minutes TOPS, If I had one tuned and ready to go it would take less then a minute unless I was fumble fingered with the FP retainer. I've yet to see an external extractor made by ANY company even come close. The internal design is a GREAT design, especially in a military pistol, but if it is made from cheap metal, wrong processes, and incorrect specs it becomes a POS. For lack of spending $20 on a good one, way to many companies routinely use a $2 shit MIM piece of absolute JUNK that won't hold a set, and does not work properly from day one.Say what you want about MIM, but this is one place that it is totally inappropriate and a known reliability problem from day one. Casting is just as bad.

I won't comment much on external one's as none of mine are external. I would prefer to be able to have a selection of companies to purchase parts as needed rather then fighting with the maker who wants it sent to one of their repair facilities. All I will say is the parts are damn little and EASY to lose if you ever take one apart.

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:34:33 PM EDT
I just checked out the Wilson Bullproof internal extractors and wow, I didn't realize how dirt cheap they were, only $27 bucks. I'm new to 1911's and i've seen a lot of aftermarket parts that seem relatively simply cost several hundred dollars, so I just assumed it was the same in the case of aftermarket extractors, boy was I wrong and i'm glad I was.

To be honest, I love the SW1911's probably more so than any other 1911 in my price range, but I hate the look of the external extractor.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:14:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 7:32:33 PM EDT by hobbs5624]
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