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Posted: 11/12/2005 8:21:19 PM EDT
OK, say that your wife or girlfriend has been invited by friends to go to a "party" or get-together at a friend of the friends house. It is a long drive and you would prefer to have your pistol with you. Not so much because of an elevated threat or bad area, but just out of general principle, same reason why you carry just to go to the gas station, etc.

You don't know these people, but they have invited you into their home. Would you feel that it would be wrong for you to CCW onto their property/into their home without their knowledge? Would you just leave it in the car?


Link Posted: 11/12/2005 8:27:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 8:33:29 PM EDT
What they don't know won't hurt them.........

Is she hanging out with a bunch of anti-gun Nazis???
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 8:35:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrsGloftoe:
If you don't know any reason why it would specifically be unwelcome, I wouldn't think there's a problem. They should never know you are carrying.





thats pretty much what I was thinking too. Its not like they'd know, but I just wondered if anyone felt it was disrespectful or something. If I knew a reason why it would specifically be unwelcome at someones home for me to carry a sidearm, then I wouldn't go there out of principle. But I have thought about this situation before, and I also know that there is no reason to ask everyone you meet the first time you meet them if they have a problem with you packin heat in their house, might scare em a little you know.

Link Posted: 11/12/2005 8:38:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2005 8:50:16 PM EDT by EternalVigilance]

Originally Posted By RDP:
What they don't know won't hurt them.........

Is she hanging out with a bunch of anti-gun Nazis???




No way that would happen in this house.


I just didn't know if it seemed somehow impolite to carry a gun into somebody's house without asking. Like sort of disrespectful to the homeowner or something. But like I said, you would come accross as a little nutty to some regular schmo aksing them if you can bring your gun in the first time you meet them.

ETA: I've been in this situation before and carried. Just got to thinking about it more though.



ETA again: Its not like it would be a big deal just to leave it in the car. But it is a pain in the ass to be taking it off and putting it on all the time. I also have always felt it was a little irresponsible to leave a loaded firearm unlocked in a vehicle also. Mine are always on me or locked up tight in a real safe.

Plus, you start making exceptions to carrying and pretty soon your not carrying much at all. You never know when something is going to happen. Probably not while you are at the persons house, but out of principle I'd feel better carrying. I always feel like I bitched out when I don't carry because I was scared of breaking some bullshit unConstitutional law or offending somebody. But in this case, its their property and you don't necessarily have a right to be there.

So I guess that the consensus is that you are not ethically wrong to carry as long as the property owner doesn't specifically say anything about it, and that you are under no obligation to ask them?
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 8:52:17 PM EDT
I almost always carry.

Yes, I would take it.

Link Posted: 11/13/2005 2:46:53 AM EDT
This is a situation where "don't ask, don't tell" would apply. What they don't know will not possibly upset them.
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 5:18:03 AM EDT
I have to agree with this. I made it a point to 'clear' my carrying a pistol with the wives of my closest friends because I often stay over in their homes and they have small children. One guy is ex LEO and the other is my best friend so I've had no problems with either. Unless you are staying the night I wouldn't let on.


Originally Posted By Bushman_269:
This is a situation where "don't ask, don't tell" would apply. What they don't know will not possibly upset them.

Link Posted: 11/13/2005 1:45:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
You don't know these people, but they have invited you into their home. Would you feel that it would be wrong for you to CCW onto their property/into their home without their knowledge? Would you just leave it in the car?



Feelings aside, it is illegal in all the states I have checked to carry in someones residence without permission.

Is there something that stops you from asking permission? Would they be surprised you are a gun nut?
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 1:54:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2005 1:55:48 PM EDT by Backstop]

Originally Posted By anomad:
...it is illegal in all the states I have checked to carry in someones residence without permission.



As in 'you have to get their permission first?' Like you're guilty if you do it and didn't ask?

There is no implied consent absent a sign, verbal notice, etc?

Edit: I'd do my own search, but I gotta run in about 5 mins.
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 3:33:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By anomad:
Feelings aside, it is illegal in all the states I have checked to carry in someones residence without permission.



Can you please provide a link??

So, failing to ask permission makes a CCW permit no longer valid??

And which Nazi states have this strange rule?

BTW, don't bother checking NV because that doesn't apply.
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 4:51:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By anomad:

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
You don't know these people, but they have invited you into their home. Would you feel that it would be wrong for you to CCW onto their property/into their home without their knowledge? Would you just leave it in the car?



Feelings aside, it is illegal in all the states I have checked to carry in someones residence without permission.

Is there something that stops you from asking permission? Would they be surprised you are a gun nut?



Then I doubt you have checked ANY state's laws. Show me ONE state that does not otherwise prohibit handgun ownership that has a law that resticts lawful carry onto someone's residence, or that requires one to obtain "permission".

And what makes a person who carries for protection a "gun nut"?
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 7:02:56 PM EDT
It is better to ask forgiveness then permission. In Oregon, we have the same laws, it applies if a person (Owner) finds out that you are carrying on their property they can ask you to leave. If you don't it is trespassing a class c misto a slap on the wrist. nothing you're going to loose your ccw over. Not that I would stay!
Link Posted: 11/14/2005 6:25:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wildbilljr:
In Oregon, we have the same laws, it applies if a person (Owner) finds out that you are carrying on their property they can ask you to leave.



Same as what?

Every state supports private property rights. The owner of private property can ask a person to leave that property for pretty much ANY reason.
Link Posted: 11/14/2005 1:06:53 PM EDT

Show me ONE state that does not otherwise prohibit handgun ownership that has a law that resticts lawful carry onto someone's residence, or that requires one to obtain "permission".

OK, here you go: Louisiana, where the CCW rules include the fact that you must opbtain permission from the owner before entering the home if you are carryijng. Failure to do so is a misdemeanor subject to fine.
Link Posted: 11/14/2005 2:00:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By darm441:

Show me ONE state that does not otherwise prohibit handgun ownership that has a law that resticts lawful carry onto someone's residence, or that requires one to obtain "permission".

OK, here you go: Louisiana, where the CCW rules include the fact that you must opbtain permission from the owner before entering the home if you are carryijng. Failure to do so is a misdemeanor subject to fine.



Very good. What other states have you checked?
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 11:01:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2005 11:06:57 AM EDT by Seydou]

Originally Posted By darm441:

OK, here you go: Louisiana, where the CCW rules include the fact that you must opbtain permission from the owner before entering the home if you are carryijng. Failure to do so is a misdemeanor subject to fine.



Link please.

Seydou

Edited to fix quote
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 11:17:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By anomad:


Feelings aside, it is illegal in all the states I have checked to carry in someones residence without permission.




I don't buy that. Links please
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 12:48:23 PM EDT

Link please.

How silly. Geez, don't ya'll know how to do a search?
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 12:52:05 PM EDT

Very good. What other states have you checked?

Can't help you past the one, as I don't check and don't worry about it (H.R.281 trumps). I know Louisiana's law because I'm one of the first 10 CCW instructors certified for that state, so I have to know their rules in depth.
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 1:34:06 PM EDT
I did the search and found the applicable statute here in subsection O.

It reads:

The provisions of Subsection N of this Section shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section. No individual to whom a concealed handgun permit is issued may carry such concealed handgun into the private residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person.

I didn't doubt you darm441, as there are countless absurd gun laws, as is this one, I was just being lazy.

Seydou
Link Posted: 11/16/2005 7:55:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By darm441:

Very good. What other states have you checked?

Can't help you past the one, as I don't check and don't worry about it (H.R.281 trumps). I know Louisiana's law because I'm one of the first 10 CCW instructors certified for that state, so I have to know their rules in depth.



SO your statement that;

it is illegal in all the states I have checked to carry in someones residence without permission.
was really just a ruse. You checked 1 state. Slick devil.

Link Posted: 11/16/2005 9:18:12 PM EDT
It's also illegal in SC.

"SECTION 23-31-225. Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings.

No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate. A person who violates this provision is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years. "

Shown Here
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 6:15:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By darm441:

Very good. What other states have you checked?

Can't help you past the one, as I don't check and don't worry about it (H.R.281 trumps). I know Louisiana's law because I'm one of the first 10 CCW instructors certified for that state, so I have to know their rules in depth.



SO your statement that;

it is illegal in all the states I have checked to carry in someones residence without permission.
was really just a ruse. You checked 1 state. Slick devil.




Unless there was a name change, or I'm going blind, you are quoting two different people. anomad was the one that said all the states he checked.
darm441 just jumped in with LA.


For the question, unless I lived in one of those states that specifically says that I have to have prior permission to carry, they'd just never know. Even people I don know a bit, don't know. Why does anybody else need to know if you are carrying or not?
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 6:36:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By anomad:

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
You don't know these people, but they have invited you into their home. Would you feel that it would be wrong for you to CCW onto their property/into their home without their knowledge? Would you just leave it in the car?



Feelings aside, it is illegal in all the states I have checked to carry in someones residence without permission.

Is there something that stops you from asking permission? Would they be surprised you are a gun nut?



Not in MI, the law states if they know or find out you are carrying they can ask you to leave, but that's all. I would not hesitate to carry in others homes, as they will not know I am carrying anyway.
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 1:13:00 PM EDT

SO your statement that;

Sorry, not my statement.
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 1:37:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 3:51:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcgrubbs:
I can't imagine being at someone's house who would have a problem with me carrying a gun concealed. Everyone whose house I would actually visit, knows I carry a gun everywhere. I generally don't associate with someone who would have a problem with it.




+1
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 4:00:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcgrubbs:
I can't imagine being at someone's house who would have a problem with me carrying a gun concealed. Everyone whose house I would actually visit, knows I carry a gun everywhere. I generally don't associate with someone who would have a problem with it.




+2
I've never given it a minutes thought. I carry at all times and generally don't associate with people that are anti-gun. My dad's wife doesn't care for them, but as long as she doesn't see it or have to touch it I don't think that she really cares. Her 1st husband was a bonehead and used to keep guns all over the house. One day he dropped one that was on the top shelf in the closet and it went off in their apartment. She's never been shooting, that's her only experience with them.
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 4:03:58 PM EDT
I think the question to ask here is this... "Are my life and the lives of those around me worth less at this time than any other time?"...
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 12:38:36 PM EDT
I think the question would be more "Why do I feel that I need to carry a gun inside this person's house?" If you are not comfortable going there without a gun you probably shouldn't go there with a gun.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 5:30:48 PM EDT
Yep...

Because criminals never go to nice neighborhoods to rob people

If you want nice stuff to steal, you need to go to nice neighborhoods. Not really rocket science!
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 1:20:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By darm441:
I think the question would be more "Why do I feel that I need to carry a gun inside this person's house?" If you are not comfortable going there without a gun you probably shouldn't go there with a gun.



The same reason I feel the need to carry a gun everywhere else I go. I would never give it a second thought to walk into a persons house carrying and don't ask for permission to carry any of the other things that are in my pockets including keys, wallet, candy, etc...

The thought of asking permission is is kind of strange to me, your just asking for some weird reactions.
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 4:33:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By darm441:

I think the question would be more "Why do I feel that I need to carry a gun inside this person's house?" If you are not comfortable going there without a gun you probably shouldn't go there with a gun.




Do you feel your friends house is a "SAFE ZONE"?


Just like schools are so called "SAFE ZONES"? Remember Columbine?


There are NO SAFE ZONES.


Why are you so willing to give up responsibility for your own self protection when you enter someone else's home?
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 6:13:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By darm441:
I think the question would be more "Why do I feel that I need to carry a gun inside this person's house?" If you are not comfortable going there without a gun you probably shouldn't go there with a gun.



Better to have and not need, than to need and not have...
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 6:27:54 PM EDT
I would absolutely carry and say nothing. A nice small piece (Glock 33 for me) with an IWB holster who would ever know.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 12:51:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2005 12:53:12 PM EDT by darm441]
I think some of you are missing the point. The question revolves around the wisdom of going someplace with a gun if you would not go there without a gun. If you are that afraid of the neighborhood, that house, etc. maybe you should not go there at all. If the only way you feel safe is if you have a gun on you, I would suggest there are deeper problems to address than your safety.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 2:03:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 2:50:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By darm441:
I think some of you are missing the point. The question revolves around the wisdom of going someplace with a gun if you would not go there without a gun. If you are that afraid of the neighborhood, that house, etc. maybe you should not go there at all. If the only way you feel safe is if you have a gun on you, I would suggest there are deeper problems to address than your safety.



I think you are missing the point, it has nothing to do with fear it has to do with preparedness.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 2:51:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2005 2:52:47 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By darm441:

I think some of you are missing the point. The question revolves around the wisdom of going someplace with a gun if you would not go there without a gun. If you are that afraid of the neighborhood, that house, etc. maybe you should not go there at all. If the only way you feel safe is if you have a gun on you, I would suggest there are deeper problems to address than your safety.




It is YOU that is missing the point.

You are talking about FEELINGS.


In REALITY, NO PLACE is 100% safe, including your own home.


It's not like I strap on a sideiron and go visit my friend's crackhouse. We're talking places that should be as safe as any other place - which is mostly safe, most of the time.


However, random violence can occur anywhere, anytime.


I'll bet you money that the folks that went to the mall in the recent shooting thought it was a "safe" mall.


I CCW all the time in places I consider "safe".

I don't go places I don't consider "safe"


Fear is not a factor.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 10:37:50 AM EDT
I'll check Florida statutes right away, but I can't say I ever thought much of it. FWIW ... not that ancient cultures weren't less "advanced" than us ... in some very old places (Scotland, etc.) it was considered good manners AND an obligation to be prepared to defend your host's home. Even when guests were disarmed at the door in order to avoid some problems, there was almost always the retention of, at least, a small blade. A Sghian Dhu was tucked into the stocking, and still is at times, as a remnant of that civilized tradition. I, for one, might ask "permission", but I will not be part of "the problem" during a home invasion. Stay safe
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 10:47:16 AM EDT
I carry if no drinking is involved. My friends carry at my home the same way.

I ask permission if going to someones house or riding in thier car. It is polite, and you must open carry in a car here.

Armed means no alchohol at my home. When we have a party I lock yours and mine in the safe if we are drinking. My bedroom stil has my nightstand gun in it.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 12:36:58 PM EDT

It is YOU that is missing the point.
You are talking about FEELINGS.
In REALITY, NO PLACE is 100% safe, including your own home.


That is the point. No place is 100% safe, and thinking or feeling that you somehow magically change an unsafe place into a safe place just because you have put a gun on is questionable, at best.

I don't go places I don't consider "safe"

Nor do I, unless it is part of the job. I won't willingly go there without a gun, and having a gun doesn't make it any better.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 12:39:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 12:40:27 PM EDT by darm441]

I don't go anywhere intending to get into a fight. In my case, my weapon is part of my attire.

I am much the same. Not sure what any of that has to do with what I said, however. If I did not feel safe enough in my friend's house to go in without a gun, I wouldn't think it particualrly safe just because I had a gun on me.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 12:41:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 12:46:31 PM EDT by darm441]

I think you are missing the point, it has nothing to do with fear it has to do with preparedness.

If you have to have a gun with you all the time to feel safe, it has everything to do with fear. If you feel that you have to have a gun at a friend's house, you probably shouldn't go there.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 12:48:42 PM EDT

Just like schools are so called "SAFE ZONES"? Remember Columbine?

I'm not aware of any schools being called "SAFE ZONES". So, are you telling me that you would not go to school unless you could carry a gun??
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 4:41:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By darm441:

I think you are missing the point, it has nothing to do with fear it has to do with preparedness.

If you have to have a gun with you all the time to feel safe, it has everything to do with fear. If you feel that you have to have a gun at a friend's house, you probably shouldn't go there.



Who the hell said I had any friends anyway.

My friends for the most part live on the same side of town as I do. I live in what I consider to be a very safe town. Still I carry in my own house, I carry in my friends house, I carry in the store, I carry everywhere I go, I don't ask for permission at any of those places.

Having a gun doesn't make me feel safe it makes me feel prepared.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 7:24:11 PM EDT
I would not sweat it. I don't really see an ethical delima here. Your personal safety if your responsibility and is no one elses business. If someone gives you shit leave and don't go back. Victims are no fun to hang out with anyway.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:56:44 PM EDT
[quote[Having a gun doesn't make me feel safe it makes me feel prepared.
Exactly. Feeling safe should not be dependent on whether or not you have a gun on you.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:59:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 2:02:30 PM EDT by MikeG23]

Originally Posted By darm441:

Having a gun doesn't make me feel safe it makes me feel prepared.

Exactly. Feeling safe should not be dependent on whether or not you have a gun on you.



I don't think anyone here is really arguing with that.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 2:05:57 PM EDT
Everyone has heard "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it". Hopefully there would not be a need for anyone to find out you are carrying. Besides, imagine your embarrasment if some life threatening situation happened and you were the only one there without a gun.
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