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Posted: 12/2/2007 8:35:32 PM EDT
I picked up a copy of Combat Tactics mag by guns and ammo(I think its the current edition). It has an article about the history of the 1911 and in one of the pictures it shows a 1911 with a double action trigger and the caption says it Seecamp double action conversion.

I've never heard of this before. Was it experimental? I didn't see anything about it on Seecamp's website. I like my single action just fine but this seem like a unique possibility for a future project.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:46:15 PM EDT
It was quite the thing in the day. Larry's Dad did them custom in house long before they designed and developed the Seecamp semi auto (of which I own a .32 of). You should find something out there on the conversion. Or, just ask Larry on the Seecamp forum about it.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:54:15 PM EDT
FWIW, Para is a substandard company that charges higher and builds lower, but their LDA is the smoothest DA application made. And even then it's as usless as tits on a station wagon.

I've had a few LDAs. They are impressive for what they are, but they are no substitute for a good 3.5-5 pound 1911 SA trigger pull (unless you are a 1911 zealot and your dept only allows DA).
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 10:09:36 PM EDT
I didn't even think about the Para LDA. I don't know the technical terms for it but the one in the picture has a pivot trigger in front of what looks like the standard 1911 straight trigger.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 10:16:09 PM EDT
Weird. I haven't seen a reference to these in years, and not ten minutes a friend of mine (who didn't see this thread) sent me a link to one on Gunbroker asking me what it was.

I've always wondered if these didn't have some influence on the Double Eagle.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 11:18:02 PM EDT
In for more info on this. I know I've read something where Jeff Cooper mentions the Seecamp Conversion for the 1911, and calls it "the best of both worlds" viz. DA/SA vs. SA-only
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 2:56:43 AM EDT
Colt's Double Eagle was another DA 1911. Went the way of the dodo.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 11:03:11 AM EDT
Fortunately.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 1:04:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
FWIW, Para is a substandard company that charges higher and builds lower, but their LDA is the smoothest DA application made. And even then it's as usless as tits on a station wagon.

I've had a few LDAs. They are impressive for what they are, but they are no substitute for a good 3.5-5 pound 1911 SA trigger pull (unless you are a 1911 zealot and your dept only allows DA).


IIRC, the LDA isn't a "true" DA. If the hammer falls on a dud round, the slide must be racked to recock the weapon. Similar to some of the striker-fired autos out there.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 1:09:29 PM EDT
YRC

An LDA is not "true" DA, as true DA requires second strike capability.

But it is quasi DA, because the trigger pull both draws back the hammer and lets it fall. The difference is the trigger doesn't cock the hammer. The hammer must be cocked for it to move back and then forward... pulling the trigger won't cock the weapon.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 1:11:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 5:12:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:

And even then it's as usless as tits on a station wagon.




Hell, for tits, *I* would drive a station wagon!!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 5:30:48 PM EDT
LOL
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:10:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 4:12:42 AM EDT by mattjedi]
Google is your friend

www.m1911.org/seecamp.htm
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 6:13:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RifleCal30m1n00b:
In for more info on this. I know I've read something where Jeff Cooper mentions the Seecamp Conversion for the 1911, and calls it "the best of both worlds" viz. DA/SA vs. SA-only


That's like calling a feces-frosted doughnut "the best of both worlds."

"The mouthwatering taste of human sewage without the annoying and disgusting sugary goodness."
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:38:59 AM EDT
You can hear the wind being sucked out of the room any time Cooper's words are being criticized, but when you're right, you're right.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:56:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
You can hear the wind being sucked out of the room any time Cooper's words are being criticized, but when you're right, you're right.


I never said I agreed with that particular line of his...I prefer SA to DA/SA.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 10:29:38 AM EDT
I was plainly acknowledging Ken mays' criticism of Cooper's statement, and while I can't speak for him, I don't think he (Ken mays) was doing more than criticizing Cooper's words.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 10:45:36 AM EDT
Cooper has written very little I disagree with. As I recall he was pretty consistently disparaging of DA triggers on autos, complaining that the CZ75 was encumbered with the "crunchenticker."

I'd venture to guess that his comment referenced above was probably tempered with something like, "If you have only shot revolvers your entire life, and have a pathological fear of cocked and locked carry, and need your Mommy to load your gun for you, the Seecamp conversion is the best of both worlds. A long DA pull for you milksops who think anything less than a 12 pound pull is horrendously unsafe, coupled with the One True Trigger for when you finally overcome your atavistic fears, take your thumb out of your mouth, and use it to deactivate the safety."

That's how I like to imagine he felt, anyway.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 11:28:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Cooper has written very little I disagree with. As I recall he was pretty consistently disparaging of DA triggers on autos, complaining that the CZ75 was encumbered with the "crunchenticker."

I'd venture to guess that his comment referenced above was probably tempered with something like, "If you have only shot revolvers your entire life, and have a pathological fear of cocked and locked carry, and need your Mommy to load your gun for you, the Seecamp conversion is the best of both worlds. A long DA pull for you milksops who think anything less than a 12 pound pull is horrendously unsafe, coupled with the One True Trigger for when you finally overcome your atavistic fears, take your thumb out of your mouth, and use it to deactivate the safety."

That's how I like to imagine he felt, anyway.


Pretty much...let me see if I can find the page in To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth...

Okay, p118-119 of the 1998 paperback.

prefacing bits are about how most DA semis are to his mind so awkward, and activating the manual safety also is a decocker, and how converting a DA/SA with a decocker/safety to a DA/SA without the safety being also the decocker, and how things can go wrong with that.

"And then, of course, there is that preferred form of d.a. [sic] auto that offers trigger-cocking in conjunction with a convenient Condition 1 override. This truly selective double-action is a feature of the Czech 75 and the Seecamp Conversion of the 1911. This system offers the best of both worlds."

And then he goes on to say why DA might, in some circumstances, be a good thing.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 11:40:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RifleCal30m1n00b:
"And then, of course, there is that preferred form of d.a. [sic] auto that offers trigger-cocking in conjunction with a convenient Condition 1 override. This truly selective double-action is a feature of the Czech 75 and the Seecamp Conversion of the 1911. This system offers the best of both worlds."


That makes some sense. The CZ75 is a great operating system, which allows you to completely ignore the DA trigger if you are so inclined. It's about the only thing I like about the USP as well.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 12:17:36 PM EDT
1911s are never "double action," converted or otherwise, in my (not humble at all) opinion.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:08:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
1911s are never "double action," converted or otherwise, in my (not humble at all) opinion.


+1

They are the unholy and unfortunate offspring of the DA donkey and the 1911 racehorse.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:11:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
FWIW, Para is a substandard company that charges higher and builds lower, but their LDA is the smoothest DA application made. And even then it's as usless as tits on a station wagon.

I've had a few LDAs. They are impressive for what they are, but they are no substitute for a good 3.5-5 pound 1911 SA trigger pull (unless you are a 1911 zealot and your dept only allows DA).


my problem exactly. I like 1911s a lot, but I have no use for a weapon i can't carry on/off duty. So i got a 7.45 LDA and i've learned to shoot it VERY accurately with that trigger. Its not as nice as a tuned kimber or something, but it'll do the jobbetter than a lot of stock triggers.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:13:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
1911s are never "double action," converted or otherwise, in my (not humble at all) opinion.


If I am not mistaken, Seecamps conversion was. Or at least it was the best one. Which is why it was so popular at the time. Again, go ask Larry Seecamp if you want to know. He is pretty good about answering these sorts of things and he grew up doing them with his Father. He could tell you exactly what you wanted to know about this. I do recall reading some of his explanations on this but, with my lack of detail knowledge about 1911's, it all went right over my head.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 11:01:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cphilip:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
1911s are never "double action," converted or otherwise, in my (not humble at all) opinion.


If I am not mistaken, Seecamps conversion was. Or at least it was the best one. Which is why it was so popular at the time. Again, go ask Larry Seecamp if you want to know. He is pretty good about answering these sorts of things and he grew up doing them with his Father. He could tell you exactly what you wanted to know about this. I do recall reading some of his explanations on this but, with my lack of detail knowledge about 1911's, it all went right over my head.


I don't want to know anything about them as "1911s are never "double action," converted or otherwise, in my (not humble at all) opinion."
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 11:04:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
I've had a few LDAs. They are impressive for what they are, but they are no substitute for a good 3.5-5 pound 1911 SA trigger pull (unless you are a 1911 zealot and your dept only allows DA).



THe LDA pull is smooth and light as any hammer cocking action could be. But the reset sucks ass beyond words.
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