Do you think this would sell?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Do you think this would sell?

Posted: 12/13/2010 6:48:42 AM EDT

What I have in mind is a single stack 45 ACP. The frame will have a shape identical to a 1911. The rest of it would be more similar to an HK45. The goal is to introduce a handgun with identical ergos to a 1911 without having to deal with the 1911's temperamental nature.

This idea was inspired by Ruger's 22/45, which is a MkII with a grip that is identical to a 1911.

Posted: 12/13/2010 10:50:43 AM EDT

[#1]

Personally, I doubt it. A 1911 guy like me is going to buy more 1911's, or he's gonna buy some wondernines.

In today's world, people are much more easily swayed by the rounds in a mag.

Course, I could be wrong.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 12/13/2010 12:03:41 PM EDT

[#2]

Built right 1911s run. Problem is people dont want to fit the cash for such models.

Anything from HK is just plain ugly.

Posted: 12/14/2010 12:59:32 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Anything from HK is just plain ugly.

You're ugly.

I still don't understand busting 2k+ for a pistol unless it means something to you. OP, some people would buy it but I don't know how big the market is becasue the 1911 people would still buy 1911s. And the others will take advantage of double stack mags.

Posted: 12/14/2010 7:41:25 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Built right 1911s run. Problem is people dont want to fit the cash for such models.

Anything from HK is just plain ugly, but they will run like a top and they WORK.

Fixed.

Posted: 12/14/2010 9:04:09 AM EDT

[#5]

So the shape of the frame is what makes the 1911 magic, but the top of the 1911 is the cause of all the problems, which could be solved by the top of a HK?

Sounds like those Cheez It commercials where they interview the kids on how the manfucturers crammed so much cheesy taste in each one.

Posted: 12/14/2010 10:55:33 AM EDT

[#6]

OThe goal is to introduce a handgun with identical ergos to a 1911 without having to deal with the 1911's temperamental nature.

I think that's called a "mil spec," and several manufacturers including Springfield make them.

Posted: 12/14/2010 11:14:34 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Personally, I doubt it. A 1911 guy like me is going to buy more 1911's, or he's gonna buy some wondernines.

In today's world, people are much more easily swayed by the rounds in a mag.

Course, I could be wrong.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

This is a precise description of how the market would react. It would be costly to build and take years to iron out to HK45 reliability. Probably best to stash this idea away with the Glock single stack 9.

Posted: 12/14/2010 11:18:48 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
So the shape of the frame is what makes the 1911 magic, but the top of the 1911 is the cause of all the problems, which could be solved by the top of a HK?

Sounds like those Cheez It commercials where they interview the kids on how the manfucturers crammed so much cheesy taste in each one.

How much do you know about the internal operating mechanism of the 1911?

It ain't a Glock, that's for damned sure. It will not run if things are just "sort of in spec". They have to be RIGHT. No one takes the time to make them that way. I'm not sure if anyone these days even knows how to make them right anymore.

Yes, it's the grip frame, trigger reach, trigger pull, low bore axis, and thin profile that makes it the best shooting handgun ever made. Most of the shit that goes wrong with them is during feeding, which largely occurs in the top end (although on a mil spec 1911, the feed ramp is cut into the frame....a different upper unit could eliminate this need).

I just used HK as an example. Obviously, it wouldn't be a direct copy of anything as that would be patent infringement. But I think a 1911 grip frame built on to a gun that did away with such things as feed ramp on the frame, barrel link, locking lugs on the barrel, and shorter travel for the cartridge from the magazine to the chamber would really be a seller.

Some of us would like the 1911 shooting experience without all the ridiculous gunsmithing charges, cursing, hate, and discontent that tends to go with it.

I love and hate my 1911. It fucks up at the most inopportune times. But for putting rounds on target fast and accurately, nothing even comes close to it.

Posted: 12/14/2010 11:33:25 AM EDT

[#9]

I'd like to see something like the HK's modularity on top of a striker fired gun. Something you could have a regular DA/SA trigger group with a decocker on the back, or a SAO trigger group with a 1911 style trigger and a manual safety, to a SAO with a trigger safety, or a DA/SA with a manual safety, easily configurable by the end user.

Posted: 12/14/2010 12:52:30 PM EDT

[#10]

1911s don't have issues. The problem guns seem to be ones that are far off the mark from original. Most factory guns run out of the box without problems.

Posted: 12/14/2010 1:14:01 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
So the shape of the frame is what makes the 1911 magic, but the top of the 1911 is the cause of all the problems, which could be solved by the top of a HK?

Sounds like those Cheez It commercials where they interview the kids on how the manfucturers crammed so much cheesy taste in each one.

hahahah yea, pretty much.

Posted: 12/14/2010 1:17:21 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So the shape of the frame is what makes the 1911 magic, but the top of the 1911 is the cause of all the problems, which could be solved by the top of a HK?

Sounds like those Cheez It commercials where they interview the kids on how the manfucturers crammed so much cheesy taste in each one.

How much do you know about the internal operating mechanism of the 1911?

It ain't a Glock, that's for damned sure. It will not run if things are just "sort of in spec". They have to be RIGHT. No one takes the time to make them that way. I'm not sure if anyone these days even knows how to make them right anymore.

Yes, it's the grip frame, trigger reach, trigger pull, low bore axis, and thin profile that makes it the best shooting handgun ever made. Most of the shit that goes wrong with them is during feeding, which largely occurs in the top end (although on a mil spec 1911, the feed ramp is cut into the frame....a different upper unit could eliminate this need).

I just used HK as an example. Obviously, it wouldn't be a direct copy of anything as that would be patent infringement. But I think a 1911 grip frame built on to a gun that did away with such things as feed ramp on the frame, barrel link, locking lugs on the barrel, and shorter travel for the cartridge from the magazine to the chamber would really be a seller.

Some of us would like the 1911 shooting experience without all the ridiculous gunsmithing charges, cursing, hate, and discontent that tends to go with it.

I love and hate my 1911. It fucks up at the most inopportune times. But for putting rounds on target fast and accurately, nothing even comes close to it.

The main thing that makes a 1911 fast and accurate is the trigger. Try a CZ variant with a worked trigger and you wont need to post stuff like this.

Posted: 12/14/2010 1:58:14 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So the shape of the frame is what makes the 1911 magic, but the top of the 1911 is the cause of all the problems, which could be solved by the top of a HK?

Sounds like those Cheez It commercials where they interview the kids on how the manfucturers crammed so much cheesy taste in each one.

How much do you know about the internal operating mechanism of the 1911?

It ain't a Glock, that's for damned sure. It will not run if things are just "sort of in spec". They have to be RIGHT. No one takes the time to make them that way. I'm not sure if anyone these days even knows how to make them right anymore.

Yes, it's the grip frame, trigger reach, trigger pull, low bore axis, and thin profile that makes it the best shooting handgun ever made. Most of the shit that goes wrong with them is during feeding, which largely occurs in the top end (although on a mil spec 1911, the feed ramp is cut into the frame....a different upper unit could eliminate this need).

I just used HK as an example. Obviously, it wouldn't be a direct copy of anything as that would be patent infringement. But I think a 1911 grip frame built on to a gun that did away with such things as feed ramp on the frame, barrel link, locking lugs on the barrel, and shorter travel for the cartridge from the magazine to the chamber would really be a seller.

Some of us would like the 1911 shooting experience without all the ridiculous gunsmithing charges, cursing, hate, and discontent that tends to go with it.

I love and hate my 1911. It fucks up at the most inopportune times. But for putting rounds on target fast and accurately, nothing even comes close to it.

The main thing that makes a 1911 fast and accurate is the trigger. Try a CZ variant with a worked trigger and you wont need to post stuff like this.

Tried the CZ variants. Granted, they hadn't been worked over by CZCustom. Nevertheless, they were notoriously inconsistent triggers (lots of bumpiness in the take up) and always stacked up a lot right before the break. Break itself was mushy and there was a lot of over travel. The CZ trigger mechanism looks like the innards of a swiss watch in its complexity.

Also, CZs are not single stacks. One of the things that sells me on the 1911 is the shape of the grip and it's thinness due to being a single stack. CZ falls short on both of those counts no matter how good the trigger is.

ETA: and as for 1911s, ask anyone who runs them at a class or has seen them run in classes. Even the expensive ones shit the bed at a higher rate than others.

Posted: 12/14/2010 5:19:35 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

I'd like to see something like the HK's modularity on top of a striker fired gun. Something you could have a regular DA/SA trigger group with a decocker on the back, or a SAO trigger group with a 1911 style trigger and a manual safety, to a SAO with a trigger safety, or a DA/SA with a manual safety, easily configurable by the end user.

You'll like the P40

Posted: 12/14/2010 5:52:47 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'd like to see something like the HK's modularity on top of a striker fired gun. Something you could have a regular DA/SA trigger group with a decocker on the back, or a SAO trigger group with a 1911 style trigger and a manual safety, to a SAO with a trigger safety, or a DA/SA with a manual safety, easily configurable by the end user.

You'll like the P40

You beat me to it! hopefully its unveiled at SHOT

Posted: 12/14/2010 6:35:49 PM EDT

[#16]

So, I don't know my way around the 1911's internals because why again?

You expect a platform to confer all the benefits of a 1911 and Glock combined with zero drawbacks because you are too cheap to pay for a properly made one that does work,which will function as intended at a price that is more suggesting you can build this build this pistol at a pricepoint that makes more sense than buying a premium pistol?

Sounds like the same fantasy I mentioned before. Your solution exists in your own post... buy the right 1911 or suffer a compromise for your frugality.

Posted: 12/14/2010 7:27:10 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So the shape of the frame is what makes the 1911 magic, but the top of the 1911 is the cause of all the problems, which could be solved by the top of a HK?

Sounds like those Cheez It commercials where they interview the kids on how the manfucturers crammed so much cheesy taste in each one.

How much do you know about the internal operating mechanism of the 1911?

It ain't a Glock, that's for damned sure. It will not run if things are just "sort of in spec". They have to be RIGHT. No one takes the time to make them that way. I'm not sure if anyone these days even knows how to make them right anymore.

Yes, it's the grip frame, trigger reach, trigger pull, low bore axis, and thin profile that makes it the best shooting handgun ever made. Most of the shit that goes wrong with them is during feeding, which largely occurs in the top end (although on a mil spec 1911, the feed ramp is cut into the frame....a different upper unit could eliminate this need).

I just used HK as an example. Obviously, it wouldn't be a direct copy of anything as that would be patent infringement. But I think a 1911 grip frame built on to a gun that did away with such things as feed ramp on the frame, barrel link, locking lugs on the barrel, and shorter travel for the cartridge from the magazine to the chamber would really be a seller.

Some of us would like the 1911 shooting experience without all the ridiculous gunsmithing charges, cursing, hate, and discontent that tends to go with it.

I love and hate my 1911. It fucks up at the most inopportune times. But for putting rounds on target fast and accurately, nothing even comes close to it.

The main thing that makes a 1911 fast and accurate is the trigger. Try a CZ variant with a worked trigger and you wont need to post stuff like this.

Tried the CZ variants. Granted, they hadn't been worked over by CZCustom. Nevertheless, they were notoriously inconsistent triggers (lots of bumpiness in the take up) and always stacked up a lot right before the break. Break itself was mushy and there was a lot of over travel. The CZ trigger mechanism looks like the innards of a swiss watch in its complexity.

Also, CZs are not single stacks. One of the things that sells me on the 1911 is the shape of the grip and it's thinness due to being a single stack. CZ falls short on both of those counts no matter how good the trigger is.

ETA: and as for 1911s, ask anyone who runs them at a class or has seen them run in classes. Even the expensive ones shit the bed at a higher rate than others.

Well whatever. You can lead a horse to water and all that. How heavy is your 1911 trigger and how wide is the grip by the way, I am curious.

Posted: 12/14/2010 8:42:21 PM EDT

[#18]

I'm not too sure what it is you find so unacceptable about the 1911's design, but if there had been a market for what you're talking about I think it would already be out there.

Quoted:
What I have in mind is a single stack 45 ACP. The frame will have a shape identical to a 1911. The rest of it would be more similar to an HK45. The goal is to introduce a handgun with identical ergos to a 1911 without having to deal with the 1911's temperamental nature.

This idea was inspired by Ruger's 22/45, which is a MkII with a grip that is identical to a 1911.

Posted: 12/14/2010 8:49:21 PM EDT

[#19]

That's it boiled down, 1911 trigger, light, crisp, same every time. no da/sa. Frame and controls all positioned where they work.

Posted: 12/14/2010 10:51:50 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
So, I don't know my way around the 1911's internals because why again?

You expect a platform to confer all the benefits of a 1911 and Glock combined with zero drawbacks because you are too cheap to pay for a properly made one that does work,which will function as intended at a price that is more suggesting you can build this build this pistol at a pricepoint that makes more sense than buying a premium pistol?

Sounds like the same fantasy I mentioned before. Your solution exists in your own post... buy the right 1911 or suffer a compromise for your frugality.

That's the problem....there is NO right 1911. Even the expensive ones are known to take a dump at inopportune moments. Go ask an instructor about that. 1911s malfunction more than any other pistol that gets run. Including the expensive ones. Why in the world would I spend $3k on a pistol that's going to shit the bed the same as the rest of the cheap ones?

I don't think anyone today even remembers how to make one right.

Posted: 12/14/2010 10:53:18 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So the shape of the frame is what makes the 1911 magic, but the top of the 1911 is the cause of all the problems, which could be solved by the top of a HK?

Sounds like those Cheez It commercials where they interview the kids on how the manfucturers crammed so much cheesy taste in each one.

How much do you know about the internal operating mechanism of the 1911?

It ain't a Glock, that's for damned sure. It will not run if things are just "sort of in spec". They have to be RIGHT. No one takes the time to make them that way. I'm not sure if anyone these days even knows how to make them right anymore.

Yes, it's the grip frame, trigger reach, trigger pull, low bore axis, and thin profile that makes it the best shooting handgun ever made. Most of the shit that goes wrong with them is during feeding, which largely occurs in the top end (although on a mil spec 1911, the feed ramp is cut into the frame....a different upper unit could eliminate this need).

I just used HK as an example. Obviously, it wouldn't be a direct copy of anything as that would be patent infringement. But I think a 1911 grip frame built on to a gun that did away with such things as feed ramp on the frame, barrel link, locking lugs on the barrel, and shorter travel for the cartridge from the magazine to the chamber would really be a seller.

Some of us would like the 1911 shooting experience without all the ridiculous gunsmithing charges, cursing, hate, and discontent that tends to go with it.

I love and hate my 1911. It fucks up at the most inopportune times. But for putting rounds on target fast and accurately, nothing even comes close to it.

The main thing that makes a 1911 fast and accurate is the trigger. Try a CZ variant with a worked trigger and you wont need to post stuff like this.

Tried the CZ variants. Granted, they hadn't been worked over by CZCustom. Nevertheless, they were notoriously inconsistent triggers (lots of bumpiness in the take up) and always stacked up a lot right before the break. Break itself was mushy and there was a lot of over travel. The CZ trigger mechanism looks like the innards of a swiss watch in its complexity.

Also, CZs are not single stacks. One of the things that sells me on the 1911 is the shape of the grip and it's thinness due to being a single stack. CZ falls short on both of those counts no matter how good the trigger is.

ETA: and as for 1911s, ask anyone who runs them at a class or has seen them run in classes. Even the expensive ones shit the bed at a higher rate than others.

Well whatever. You can lead a horse to water and all that. How heavy is your 1911 trigger and how wide is the grip by the way, I am curious.

Haven't measured either exactly. Has grips similar to USGI, just regular plain jane wood grip panels. Trigger is somewhere around 4.5 lbs. No fucking arched mainspring housing.

Posted: 12/14/2010 11:01:38 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So, I don't know my way around the 1911's internals because why again?

You expect a platform to confer all the benefits of a 1911 and Glock combined with zero drawbacks because you are too cheap to pay for a properly made one that does work,which will function as intended at a price that is more suggesting you can build this build this pistol at a pricepoint that makes more sense than buying a premium pistol?

Sounds like the same fantasy I mentioned before. Your solution exists in your own post... buy the right 1911 or suffer a compromise for your frugality.

That's the problem....there is NO right 1911. Even the expensive ones are known to take a dump at inopportune moments. Go ask an instructor about that. 1911s malfunction more than any other pistol that gets run. Including the expensive ones. Why in the world would I spend $3k on a pistol that's going to shit the bed the same as the rest of the cheap ones?

I don't think anyone today even remembers how to make one right.

BTDT in tons of threads. None of these instructors can vouch for all of the following: the 1911s didn't have the fresh recoil spring, the good mags, factory ammo, factory setup, etc. There are more problems with after purchase variables on 1911s by the operator than the (quality) 1911s themselves.

Posted: 12/14/2010 11:06:15 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So, I don't know my way around the 1911's internals because why again?

You expect a platform to confer all the benefits of a 1911 and Glock combined with zero drawbacks because you are too cheap to pay for a properly made one that does work,which will function as intended at a price that is more suggesting you can build this build this pistol at a pricepoint that makes more sense than buying a premium pistol?

Sounds like the same fantasy I mentioned before. Your solution exists in your own post... buy the right 1911 or suffer a compromise for your frugality.

That's the problem....there is NO right 1911. Even the expensive ones are known to take a dump at inopportune moments. Go ask an instructor about that. 1911s malfunction more than any other pistol that gets run. Including the expensive ones. Why in the world would I spend $3k on a pistol that's going to shit the bed the same as the rest of the cheap ones?

I don't think anyone today even remembers how to make one right.

BTDT in tons of threads. None of these instructors can vouch for all of the following: the 1911s didn't have the fresh recoil spring, the good mags, factory ammo, factory setup, etc. There are more problems with after purchase variables on 1911s by the operator than the (quality) 1911s themselves.

I can't argue with that. I know that mine really starts telling me in a big way when its time for spring replacements.

Posted: 12/15/2010 3:40:38 AM EDT

[#24]

1911s are from a time when people were smarter. They do require a higher level of maintance than most other pistols. If you are not willing to do all the PM, do not purchase one. Purchase aStock Colt 1911, make no mods and it will run, provided you know how to maintane it.

Most of the 1911 I see that do not function (IDPA USPSA matches) are almost always from 2 things, bad reloads and incorrect modifications. Its rare but I have come across broken extractors, but parts failure is rather low on why the 1911 will not run.

just like Glocks, when they stop working I ask the shooter what did you change? Sure as shit the gun always worked right before the changed something.

Posted: 12/15/2010 7:57:19 AM EDT

[#25]

Horse shit- the M1911A1 is a loose-as-a-goose combat pistol that sounds like a can of peanuts when you shake it and is unerringly reliable.
Now, if you want a super-tight runs-like-a-top tack driver, then be prepared to shell out the cash.

When exactly did the 1911 platform become such a finicky bitch? ISPC shooters in the 70's?
I'm honestly asking, it was before my time.

Posted: 12/15/2010 8:00:52 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So the shape of the frame is what makes the 1911 magic, but the top of the 1911 is the cause of all the problems, which could be solved by the top of a HK?

Sounds like those Cheez It commercials where they interview the kids on how the manfucturers crammed so much cheesy taste in each one.

How much do you know about the internal operating mechanism of the 1911?

It ain't a Glock, that's for damned sure. It will not run if things are just "sort of in spec". They have to be RIGHT. No one takes the time to make them that way. I'm not sure if anyone these days even knows how to make them right anymore.

Yes, it's the grip frame, trigger reach, trigger pull, low bore axis, and thin profile that makes it the best shooting handgun ever made. Most of the shit that goes wrong with them is during feeding, which largely occurs in the top end (although on a mil spec 1911, the feed ramp is cut into the frame....a different upper unit could eliminate this need).

I just used HK as an example. Obviously, it wouldn't be a direct copy of anything as that would be patent infringement. But I think a 1911 grip frame built on to a gun that did away with such things as feed ramp on the frame, barrel link, locking lugs on the barrel, and shorter travel for the cartridge from the magazine to the chamber would really be a seller.

Some of us would like the 1911 shooting experience without all the ridiculous gunsmithing charges, cursing, hate, and discontent that tends to go with it.

I love and hate my 1911. It fucks up at the most inopportune times. But for putting rounds on target fast and accurately, nothing even comes close to it.

The main thing that makes a 1911 fast and accurate is the trigger. Try a CZ variant with a worked trigger and you wont need to post stuff like this.

Tried the CZ variants. Granted, they hadn't been worked over by CZCustom. Nevertheless, they were notoriously inconsistent triggers (lots of bumpiness in the take up) and always stacked up a lot right before the break. Break itself was mushy and there was a lot of over travel. The CZ trigger mechanism looks like the innards of a swiss watch in its complexity.

Also, CZs are not single stacks. One of the things that sells me on the 1911 is the shape of the grip and it's thinness due to being a single stack. CZ falls short on both of those counts no matter how good the trigger is.

ETA: and as for 1911s, ask anyone who runs them at a class or has seen them run in classes. Even the expensive ones shit the bed at a higher rate than others.

Well whatever. You can lead a horse to water and all that. How heavy is your 1911 trigger and how wide is the grip by the way, I am curious.

Haven't measured either exactly. Has grips similar to USGI, just regular plain jane wood grip panels. Trigger is somewhere around 4.5 lbs. No fucking arched mainspring housing.

I can promise you my SP-01 has a lighter trigger with an equal or shorter reset, and the grips are smaller than your 1911, with the same control locations, the same balance, and the same weight. And it holds 20 rounds instead of 8.

Posted: 12/15/2010 8:40:21 AM EDT

[#27]

only 2k 1911's run ?

wow, dont tell that to my springfield GI please....it may stop working

Posted: 12/15/2010 11:40:25 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
only 2k 1911's run ?

wow, dont tell that to my springfield GI please....it may stop working

Last I checked Colts are not 2k.
SA are known for extracotrs that need replacement and recoil springs that are weak.

Posted: 12/15/2010 12:51:57 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:

only 2k 1911's run ?

wow, dont tell that to my springfield GI please....it may stop working

Last I checked Colts are not 2k.

SA are known for extracotrs that need replacement and recoil springs that are weak.

I'm a Springfield fan, but +1.

To be fair, they have weak recoil springs to offset the 28lb mainspring they use in the ILS. They use the 28lb to ensure adequate ignition with the Titanium firing pin w/heavy duty spring. They use the light pin and heavy spring for drop safety.

Return them to standard (I keep the FP and FP spring), and you're back to stage one.

Posted: 12/15/2010 1:22:58 PM EDT

[#30]

HK They hate us...... but they are like a metal glock with a hammer.

Posted: 12/15/2010 7:45:56 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'd like to see something like the HK's modularity on top of a striker fired gun. Something you could have a regular DA/SA trigger group with a decocker on the back, or a SAO trigger group with a 1911 style trigger and a manual safety, to a SAO with a trigger safety, or a DA/SA with a manual safety, easily configurable by the end user.

You'll like the P40

You beat me to it! hopefully its unveiled at SHOT

SHOT next year or 2013?

Posted: 12/15/2010 10:03:05 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
HK They hate us...... but they are like a metal glock with a hammer.

Unless you're referring to a P7, HK's were polymer last I checked.

Posted: 12/15/2010 10:05:12 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

OThe goal is to introduce a handgun with identical ergos to a 1911 without having to deal with the 1911's temperamental nature.

I think that's called a "mil spec," and several manufacturers including Springfield make them.

Mil-Specs are plenty tempermental.

Posted: 12/15/2010 10:18:06 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Horse shit- the M1911A1 is a loose-as-a-goose combat pistol that sounds like a can of peanuts when you shake it and is unerringly reliable.
Now, if you want a super-tight runs-like-a-top tack driver, then be prepared to shell out the cash.

When exactly did the 1911 platform become such a finicky bitch? ISPC shooters in the 70's?
I'm honestly asking, it was before my time.

It became so finicky right about the same time it started being able to hit the broad side of a barn door.

Most 1911's are finicky. If you want to be in denial about that, then that's ok. Throw SD ammo (read: hollow points) in the mix, and things go from bad to worse.

And a stock Colt is no guarantee either. How many stock plain-jane Colts will eat any hollow-point you throw at it w/o feed ramp work. Mine won't.

This all comes out sounding negative, but I say all this with love. I have two 1911s and love them both. I reload for them and they are my favorite range guns. Go with me every time. But not a headache I want in a SD gun.

Like the OP, I think there must be a way to make them run. "We can put a man on the moon"...and all that.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Do you think this would sell?

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