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Posted: 1/2/2012 9:13:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 8:29:40 AM EDT by puskrat]
The G18 shot out to an early lead, maintained about 28% of the vote, and ended just a bit shy of that. Owing to the decreasing activity, I'm gonna call this one. G18 wins? :( Ah well. Have a nice weekedn guys


You asked for it. No, you demanded it. Here is your chance to vote for your favorite as the 'way coolest pistol ever'. There are no particle beam weapons, no hand phasers, no microwave gun, no hand cannon. Just a few options that arfcom and the world have suggested. The contenders, in no particular order:


The Glock 17. There can be no doubt it was innovative, as Gaston Glock dragged firearms manufacturing kicking and screaming into the 20th century. Add Polymer frames and a seventeen round magazine, and you have one cool pistol. Ask any gansta, to whom "Glock" is the firearm equivalent of "Kleenex", and you know it's cool. The side says perfection, and it obviously isn't, but it's cool.


The Glock 18. Take the cool Glock 17 and add a happy switch. Much cooler, in the OPs opinion, than the 17, because machine pistols are just plain cool.


Mauser's 712 Machine pistol. Machine pistols are cool. Paul Mauser was cool. Broomhandle pistols are cool. (Because Winnie said so)


Beretta 93. Machine pistols are cool. Did you miss that? One has to wonder if the 93 inspired the Austrians to full-auto their pistol. Any gun looks cool when held by Kate Blankenship, but this one looks cool even stationary.

Most of the coolest guns, like the machine pistols, are fairly rare. My own favorite, the 1911, doesnt appear because it disqualified itself by its own success. I almost didnt include the Glock 17 either, because cool kind of includes the abstract concept of "special". The G17 is too ubiquitous to be special, as is the 1911. Now, maybe a six inch hi cap LDA Para Ordnance gun would be unique, but generally speaking, a 1911 is not rare. Admittedly, this is not a "rare" gun poll, but I feel justified in saying the 1911 is too common to be cool. I finally relented and included the Glock 17 because it was so innovative in so many ways. Plus, this is not a comprehensive list, nor is it intended to be.


In discussing the 712, we mentioned the fact that broomhandles are cool. So, this is cool.


Powerful gun. Not especially innovative in itself, but it introduced the awesome 10mm Auto, which proved to be too much for the awesome FBI. I don't think J Edgar would have been proud. the Bren Ten also suffered from production issues, definitely delivery times, possible quality issues. We didnt say it had to work, just be cool. The Bren Ten is cool.


More powerful gun. Gas operated. Arfcom ought to love this. Made in Israel. Republicans ought to love this. Gold anodized. Saddam would love this. Magnum cartridges. I love this. This gun is cool. It's rare, but it's been placed in enough films to be easily recognizes by about everyone who's never owned a gun or wanted to.


From a big nasty gun to a litlte pansy gun. Despte being used by the worst bonds (that's right, I said it, and you know it's true), and being an underpowered waste of time (it's a popular gun for assassins though, so if you're an assassin, forgive my presumption), it's still pretty cool. Cool enough the Commies made their own copy (In a slightly more powerful and almost useful round). What kind of judgement can you expect from a man who drinks Smirnoff?


Because we didnt have enough German (nationally or ethnically) guns in this survey. The cool little semi-auto version of the Lemon Squeezer isnt especially memorable in the movies, but she's made her share of appearances.

More discussion: I really wanted to include a 29, or a 629, but regardless of the power, I couldnt get past the fact that they were just the same old thing made bigger. Can't deny there is an element of cool, I just couldnt bring myself to make it contend against these other tools. If your true favorite isnt included here, it's not an intentional slight. Most people know I can't stand Glock, although the guns aren't so much the problem, as the Company, and there are two included. Also note exclusion of 1911). So while my biases certainly will come into play, I'm laying them aside as best i can. I'm also not trying to start an arfcom 9mm vs 45 or ar vs ak thread. Have opinions, express opinions just don't start flaming each other. I mean who wants to be known as a "flamer"?
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 9:13:46 PM EDT
WORKING ON THE PHOTOS
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 10:06:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2012 10:10:40 PM EDT by zoom]
Funny how Flickr intentionally breaks the photos, but they'll advertise the fact that you took them using a Canon PowerShot SD850 IS. They're getting as unreliable as Photobucket.z

ETA: Well that didn't take long for Yahoo to send a threatening e-mail. I wish their IT department was as well funded as their legal department.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 12:57:09 AM EDT
I use and love imageshack.us

Hard to pick one and it's a toss up between the Desert Eagle and the PPK
I have always had a soft spot for the PPK and I want an original sometime but the Desert Eagle is just iconic and a beast.

Just on cool factory, I am saying Deagle in .50AE
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 1:08:41 AM EDT
Here are teh best three image sites in order...

photobucket
postimage.com
imageshack.us

Imageshack used to be #2 but sometimes its slow to load and has issues. postimage.com is somewhat new and I love it.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 7:35:56 AM EDT
The G18 with the 33 round magazine is my pick. It's as cool as a micro Uzi.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 1:04:35 PM EDT
While I'm a Glock fan, stock, they are more in the 'utilitarian' category than 'cool' one. As far as 'cool' goes, I think that longevity can show us what's stood the test of time so I'd have to say...

Semi-auto: Hands down, the 1911 and it's many clones.

Revolver: Colt Python or S&W model 10

Single action: Hands down the Colt 1873 Peacemaker and it's many clones.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 2:53:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2012 5:08:33 AM EDT by gmtmaster]
Originally Posted By puskrat:
WORKING ON THE PHOTOS


Here ya go....Use whatever you want. I own these two guns so if you need different pics I can take whatever you want. Pic # 4 may look familiar if you visit IMFDB. They liked the pic so much they used it themselves.










Link Posted: 1/3/2012 8:23:24 PM EDT
I'm off to imageshack
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 8:26:51 PM EDT
I'd say the Bren Ten because it took several sets of big brass balls to conceptualize, design, market and manufacture it from scratch. And chambering it in the Centimeter was just a big FUCK YOU to the milquetoasts of the handgun world.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 10:08:01 PM EDT
I still don't understand the love for the P7.

Heavy, single stack, overly complicated, expensive, too centered around safety, etc etc
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 6:28:16 PM EDT
Of the limited choices, I would have to go with the Bren Ten
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 6:47:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2012 6:51:36 PM EDT by BlitzPig]


Link Posted: 1/4/2012 7:51:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hb2:
Of the limited choices, I would have to go with the Bren Ten


Yup.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 9:05:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2012 9:07:03 PM EDT by kevinb120]
Interdasting

One everyone-has-one Glock and no Automag or Sphinx or even one of the old Springfield Armory factory compensated 'race guns' they used to sell back in the 80's...
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 7:24:54 AM EDT
Of the ones listed, I voted P7, with Bren Ten being a close second.

If I could list my own, I would go with either the classic Python style guns, or the ol' reliable 1911.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 7:56:41 AM EDT
Umm you forgot the VP70

But added a glock 17? poll FAIL
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 10:35:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zoom:
Funny how Flickr intentionally breaks the photos, but they'll advertise the fact that you took them using a Canon PowerShot SD850 IS. They're getting as unreliable as Photobucket.z

ETA: Well that didn't take long for Yahoo to send a threatening e-mail. I wish their IT department was as well funded as their legal department.


What's up with Yahoo threatening email?
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 10:37:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Here are teh best three image sites in order...

photobucket
postimage.com
imageshack.us

Imageshack used to be #2 but sometimes its slow to load and has issues. postimage.com is somewhat new and I love it.


Obviously photobucket blows
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 10:39:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kevinb120:
Interdasting

One everyone-has-one Glock and no Automag or Sphinx or even one of the old Springfield Armory factory compensated 'race guns' they used to sell back in the 80's...


Automag would certainly have been a good addition. I fail much. This one cost me no money. The Sphinx? I think not.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 11:31:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2012 11:36:58 AM EDT by CBR900]
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
I'd say the Bren Ten because it took several sets of big brass balls to conceptualize, design, market and manufacture it from scratch. And chambering it in the Centimeter was just a big FUCK YOU to the milquetoasts of the handgun world.


They did not design it. The Bren 10 is a version of the CZ-75.

Plenty of CZ-75 clones out there:

-Armalite AR24 is a nice, all steel 75.

-IMI/IWI Jericho 941 is also called the "baby desert eagle" - I think Kahr arms bought them out recently. Also a nice 75.

-Tanfoglio makes a nice CZ-75 clone; about $300 to $400 for the Witness model & $1500 + for a "Gold Team" match gun

-Sphinnx Arms of Switzerland makes a good CZ-75 clone - for about $2000 each! Still a 75 design.

-At one time, Springfield Armory offered a 75 (the now discontinued model P9) and Colt actually marketed the CZ-40 as their own "Colt 40" - it was made by CZ.

Norinco and Imbell have made them too. Spain made some of the early frames for CZ and later copied aspects of the design for the Star M30. Moste recently, they have been copied in the Philippines as well.

"75s" are made all over the world - just like "1911s" Nothing new about the design - and, like the 1911, it is an excellent, timeless design.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:17:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 6:20:25 PM EDT by BravoSector1]

Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:26:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EBK:
Umm you forgot the VP70

But added a glock 17? poll FAIL


I did this crazy thing. I thought y'all would read the background and explanation of the poll. My bad.
you fail.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:35:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CBR900:
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
I'd say the Bren Ten because it took several sets of big brass balls to conceptualize, design, market and manufacture it from scratch. And chambering it in the Centimeter was just a big FUCK YOU to the milquetoasts of the handgun world.


They did not design it. The Bren 10 is a version of the CZ-75.


They most certainly did design it. Much of the basic design was adapted from the CZ-75 as a starting point, but the Bren Ten was much more than just a knockoff. Quoted from a post on another board:


When Dornaus & Dixon designed the Bren Ten with Jeff Cooper's input, their aim was to market a highly accurate, extremely reliable combat arm with all necessary "custom" features right out of the box. Among Jeff Cooper's requirements were:

1. the pistol must be de-horned.
2. have rugged fully adjustable sights.
3. have a self contained tool kit for sight adjustment and basic maintenance.
4. have a lanyard ring.
5. have an adjustable magazine drop.
6. have the ability to be carried "cocked & locked".
7. be chambered in the .40 special (10mm).
8. be capable of target impact velocities with a 200 grain bullet of 1,000 fps.(at all reasonable combat ranges)
9. have a loaded chamber indicator which can be verified visually and by feel.
10. must be very accurate.
11. have a reversible (not ambidextrous) thumb safety and magazine catch.
12. have an enlarged and flared ejection port.
14. have a larger trigger guard to allow firing with a gloved hand.
13. most importantly, have a 99.9% reliability rating.

When properly executed, the original Bren Ten achieved these goals. The operative words here are "properly executed". Assembly issues at start-up along with substandard outsourced components such as slide & frame investment castings and the original MEC-GAR dual caliber magazines had quality all over the map. Later manufactured guns with the 2nd generation 10mm magazines were on the mark however. Even Eric Kincel* made the following comment regarding the Bren Ten's accuracy in his Gun World feature article on the Peregrine Falcon:

"Dornaus and Dixon advertised that all production Bren Tens would produce a ten-shot group less than one-inch at twenty-five yards, while that auto was in production. From my own experience, I know this to be true. The use of Power-Seal rifling in the Falcon should make it highly accurate."

Apparently, Vltor has deemed that items number 3 and 5 are arguably extraneous and have been dropped. Their decision to use Witness magazine components in their magazine assemblies has left some people scratching their heads also. That said, do you feel that Vltor, with 2010, not 1984 technology available, will be able to maintain the accuracy, reliability and other general design requirements of the original?"

Please note that Vltor, in addition to deleting the original screwdriver/guide rod assembly and the magazine drop switch, has made the original owner removable castellated barrel bushing a factory only serviced part. The original design incorporated a left hand thread and roll pin which resisted unscrewing and facilitated easy replacement of the front sight. They have also added a third safety-a firing pin block of either the Colt series 80 or Swartz style. Also, Vltor redesigned the fire control geometry and strengthened the ejector/sear housing assembly. The sear housing was a trouble spot on the original. While of "adequate strength", the ejector was hand fitted and on some early guns, were not done so correctly. This led to empty cases bouncing off the slide behind the ejection port or in extreme cases, a broken ejector.

Vltor redesigned the fire control geometry so that no Fortis parts would interchange with the original gun (for product liability reasons I assume). This resulted in the expenditure of substantial time & engineering resources I would further assume. In view of the fact that less than 1350 original guns total were built and a substantial number of them have either been lost thru normal attrition or relegated to safe queen status; you have to wonder how large a liability exposure this really is and even more importantly, was it necessary. Remember that Tom Dornaus had already danced that dance with the Peregrine Falcon and he has not heard word one from Vltor. I also wonder what this change will do to the trigger pull characteristics which were uniformly excellent on later, correctly assembled original guns in both SA & DA modes.

Jeff Cooper's intent was that the pistol be totally self contained for basic field adjustment & maintenance. The castellated barrel bushing could be removed by using the magazine as a tool to unscrew it. The stocks, etc. could be removed using the screwdriver built into the guide rod assembly. That is gone now. The extractor/loaded chamber indicator assembly of the original has been redesigned by Vltor. The original was not prone to failure but contained a number of small parts. Vltor has eliminated a number of these parts which will make it easier to manufacture & assemble and therefore more economical. You (read I) also have to wonder about the new trigger pull characteristics.

When Tom Dornaus built the original prototype, he started by scaling up the trigger pull length and control locations of the 9mm sized CZ75 to .45 ACP proportions. When that happened, Jeff Cooper felt that it was a long reach in order to manipulate the thumb safety and insisted that Dornaus relocate it. This may have seemed like an easy and obvious revision to Cooper but in actuality, it wreaked havoc with the fire control geometry and Dornaus lost a fair amount of the hair he had left getting every thing to fit & work correctly after that. The length of pull was also tweaked by Dornaus and that plus the thickness of the grip compromised the magazine capacity to some extent. It was actually reduced twice before the ten rounds of .40 Special ammunition was settled upon. Anyway, this exercise is covered in more detail in Carrillo's book.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 9:07:28 AM EDT
How can only 19 people like the 93r? It has one of the coolest/probably useless vertical grips eva! Also pretty much every bad guy in that Johnny Depp/Angelina Jolie movie The Tourist, had one
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 10:55:00 AM EDT
Let's try this again...

Image Shack has been really iffy of late...


Link Posted: 1/7/2012 12:17:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RU1NER:
How can only 19 people like the 93r? It has one of the coolest/probably useless vertical grips eva! Also pretty much every bad guy in that Johnny Depp/Angelina Jolie movie The Tourist, had one


Most of us have better taste in movies.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 1:10:29 PM EDT
Wow the Bren Ten is a fugly gun. Looks like it has a really high bore axis.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 2:57:18 PM EDT
Most of us have better taste in movies.


Lol. I honestly wasn't expecting much we grabbed it at the library for my mom and two weeks later she never got around to watching so I figured I might as well watch it if i'm going to pay late fees and it wasn't half bad though it was predictable. Anyways did anyone read the Bren Ten article in the American Handgunner Tactical 2012 edition? Pretty cool I thought.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 3:11:33 PM EDT
Beretta 93, it's exotic look is part of it.

The G18 is only cool when you see it shoot.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 3:30:22 PM EDT
Write in candidate.

224Boz
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:06:04 PM EDT
is this a potest post?


RE 93......I didnt notice a post advocating for it, so I cant say why more didnt pick it, or why anyone did, other than machinepistols are cool.
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