Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 12/9/2005 6:10:07 AM EDT
Ok, so, here we go.

I bought this Colt Series 80 Government model, maybe 2 years ago. I've replaced a few parts here and there, consulting an Ed Brown's bench reference book.

So, last week, I'm at the range, I load my magazines, load the pistol, and when I attempt to fire the weapon... nothing.

The hammer drops, but, just that.

So, I figured it was a bad primer, or possibly hangfire, so, I rack in another round. Still, hammer drops, nothing.

So, I switch magazines to a different ammo. NOTHING!

So, I take apart the pistol, and examine the slide. If I push on the rear of the firing pin, it does Not peak out of the front, where it would contact the round.

So, I order a bullet proof firing pin from wilson combat, put it in the gun. And, wouldn't you know it, that doesn't come through either. The wilson looked to be maybe a 1/64-ish longer than the colt factory pin.


- Latest attempt. I consulted my Ed Brown manual, and it gives three possible causes for this problem.

- Bad firing pin/ replace firing pin. ---- Done that
- Bad mainspring/ replace mainspring.
- Bad firing pin spring, replace spring. ----- This is in the mail


I'm hoping that the new firing pin spring will work, cause I want to shoot my .45 again. Anything else I might have overlooked guys?

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Teflon
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 6:20:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 6:24:59 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 6:23:08 AM EDT
Well its obviously something to do with those unneccesary 80 series parts.

Oh , wait , Colt wouldn't screw up a perfect design with parts that cause problems

What was I thinking?

Read this for info.

forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=975
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 7:03:11 AM EDT
Twl- Yeah, I was aware of the series 80 parts. Still, I've disassemble, and reassembled the slide 3 times now, to be sure that wasn't the problem. But, the firing pin still won't peak through, even while depressing the plunger.

Also, I completely reassembled the pistol, and loaded it with a snap cap with a little masking tape on the end. If the pin hits the cap, there will be a mark. No mark....

Makes me wanna throw this thing out the window.

Oh well, my new spring should come in the mail today.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks guys-

Teflon


P.S.- AKsRule- 1- yes, they do. 2- next time, it's gonna be a Series 70.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 7:32:57 AM EDT
Series 80 is very reliable.

All major handgun manfacturers use some kind of FP block, which are all very similar as far as the parts in the slide go. This includes the series 80 colts.

The main variance in the systems is what activates the plunger in the slide. In series 80 it works off the trigger bow, in the glock it works off the trigger bar, in schwants/kimber series II it works off the grip safety.

I would remove the slide from the frame and place it upside down on a table.

Push in on the plunger for the FP block and hold it down. Now push the FP. Does it protrude from the breechface?

If not, disassemble the slide (FP stop, FP, FP spring, extractor, FP block plunger and spring).

Check the FP. Does the forward end look ok, or broken? Do you have another FP to compare it to for length? Is the rear end of it peened? Will the rear end fit in the FP stop? With no FP spring, will it move smoothly in the FP channel and will it protrude from the breechface if you allow it to move all the way forward?

Is the FP spring intact? Is it missing any coils?

Are there brass shavings in the FP hole in the breechface?

Using a Q-tip and perhaps a worn-out .223 bore brush, clean the FP channel with some bore solvent and enusre there is no build up of crud that can impair free movemen of the FP.

While you're at it, do the same for the extractor channel. You might be surpised at the crud that comes out.

Reassemble the slide and check the movement of the FP block plunger and also the FP.

Pick up the assembled receiver. With the hammer *down*, press the trigger. The series 80 lever should rise from the right rear of the frame. If it doesn't, it's been reassembled improperly.

Let us know what happens.

SF
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 8:45:39 AM EDT
The firing pin in a 1911 is an inertial pin. It is shorter than the housing in the slide and does not protrude when the hammer is down.
It is driven forward by the blow of the hammer and momentum carries it forward far enough to strike the primer.
Make sure the tunnel is clean and dry. The only oil required is a slight film to prevent rust, but it should be nearly invisible on the pin, spring, and in the tunnel. Pipe cleaners work well for cleaning out the firing pin tunnel.
A quick test is to check for an empty gun, then insert a new pencil into the barrel, point the gun up, and pull the trigger. The firing pin should give enough energy to shoot the pencil all the way out of the barrel and up in the air some distance. Wear safety glasses.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 9:09:21 AM EDT
Check and see if there's something obstructing the firing pin's path. Drop the firing pin in the slide w/o the spring and see if the tip comes thru the hole on the breech face. If not, either there's an obstruction or you have the wrong firing pin.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 10:43:25 AM EDT
Pull side, press in on the FP plunger, then push the FP all the way forward (past the stop) with a punch until the FP bottoms completly out. Now look at the FP tip to see if it is sticking past the breach face. If no go, then either something is blocking the FP or you have the wrong FP in the pistol.

Next, if you installed a trigger with a overtravel stop set screw, make sure that you have set the trigger stop correctly that not only does the trigger release the sear, but also cams the sear far enough to allow the sear to make it past the safety sear hammer notch (first cock).

Now put the pistol back together, cock the hammer all way back, and retain it there when you pull the trigger. Again, use a punch and press the pin all way in until and check threw the mag well for the FP to be protruded threw the breach.

Thing to remember is that the FP slings forward when being struck by the hammer, and it will go farther in to bottom out foward (read just pushing it in flush will the stop will not get the tip past the breach, nor bottom it out.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 12:47:16 PM EDT
Have you checked to make sure the arm that engages the firing pin safety is moving when you pull the trigger? Take the slide off the frame and cock the hammer. You don't want to let the hammer fall hard against the frame so hold it with your support side index finger. Pull the trigger and see if the arm move up. Slowly let the hammer down against the frame while holding the trigger down. The arm should be up this whole time. See if you can press it down while the trigger is still depressed.

If you have and trigger that is adjustible for overtravel, its likely that its set too tight. Its allowing the hammer to fall but is not moving enough to disengage the FPS. Its also possible to install the two frame parts incorrectly so they don't move when you pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 12:50:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 12:51:37 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 12:50:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By a38337:


All major handgun manfacturers use some kind of FP block, which are all very similar as far as the parts in the slide go. This includes the series 80 colts.



SF



This is not true. Springfield, Wilson, Les Baer, Nighthawk, STI, Ed Brown and just about every custom and semi-custom shop does not have firing pin blocks. Even Colt has a series of pistols that eliminate this "feature" and Kimber has made the Warrior without one.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 2:08:33 PM EDT
I think you missed my point.

With the exception of Springfield (who uses their ILS lock on 1911' s and a FP block on XD series), the makers you list are not major manufacturers, and Springfield's status is debatable if you look production numbers.

Colt, Kimber, Smith and Wesson, Para, and not to mention Glock, Sig, Berretta, and H&K all use FP blocks. A small percentage of Colt and Kimber guns lack FP blocks.

This is neither good nor bad, it's just the way it is.

I prefer 1911's that lack FP blocks, of which I own a Springfield Mil Spec Custom, a Baer Premier II, an SVI .40 limited gun, an STI 9mm major open gun, and a soon a Heinie series 70 Colt Gold Cup.

My series 80 guns are just as reliable as the others.

SF


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By a38337:
All major handgun manfacturers use some kind of FP block, which are all very similar as far as the parts in the slide go. This includes the series 80 colts.
SF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is not true. Springfield, Wilson, Les Baer, Nighthawk, STI, Ed Brown and just about every custom and semi-custom shop does not have firing pin blocks. Even Colt has a series of pistols that eliminate this "feature" and Kimber has made the Warrior without one.

Link Posted: 12/9/2005 5:10:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 5:16:41 PM EDT by JCG4]
Do you have an adjustabble trigger? If so, have you messed with it recently? If you have adjusted it may be too light and even though the hammer falls it does not strike with enough force to activate the firingpin. Do you remember if any of your rounds had faint strike marks or any at all?
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 12:13:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 9:24:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 3:45:48 AM EDT by hobbs5624]
.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 9:45:23 PM EDT
easy fix,

remove magazine, replace pistol, reinsert magazine,

or get a glock
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:04:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 9:07:38 PM EDT by Teflon_Tip]
Hey guys, I'm still here.

-UPDATE-

I bought the pistol brand new, stock, Series 80 Government model.

Shot maybe 250 rnds, before the extractor broke. Put in a new wilson.

So, the pistol is stock, with the exception of these items:

Drop in Beavertail safety.
Drop in extended thumb safety.
Wilson sear.
Wolff 18.5lb recoil spring.

Now, I've had this thing apart a dozen times at least by now.

Tried:
Stock firing pin and pin spring
Wilson pin and spring
wilson pin stock spring
etc.
etc.
etc.
....and nothing's worked yet.

Trigger is stock. Tomorrow, I'm going to take it apart, check all the shit, and put all the stock shit back in it. If it doesn't work after that. I'll consult a gunsmith.

Thank you guys for all the info

This is Damn frustrating!

I want to shoot my gun.

-Teflon
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:40:27 PM EDT
Could be that the beavertail needs to be fitted to clear the trigger bow.

Try the stock beavertail and see if that fixes it.

Many times "drop in" parts are not, simply due to variances in manufacturing tolerances.

SF
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:33:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 3:46:02 AM EDT by hobbs5624]
.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:34:29 AM EDT
Drop in extended thumb safety.


I've installed at least 8 thumb safeties and never had one drop in. It has to be fitted.

SF
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 10:58:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Teflon_Tip:
Hey guys, I'm still here.

-UPDATE-

I bought the pistol brand new, stock, Series 80 Government model.

Shot maybe 250 rnds, before the extractor broke. Put in a new wilson.

So, the pistol is stock, with the exception of these items:

Drop in Beavertail safety.
Drop in extended thumb safety.
Wilson sear.
Wolff 18.5lb recoil spring.

Now, I've had this thing apart a dozen times at least by now.

Tried:
Stock firing pin and pin spring
Wilson pin and spring
wilson pin stock spring
etc.
etc.
etc.
....and nothing's worked yet.

Trigger is stock. Tomorrow, I'm going to take it apart, check all the shit, and put all the stock shit back in it. If it doesn't work after that. I'll consult a gunsmith.

Thank you guys for all the info

This is Damn frustrating!

I want to shoot my gun.

-Teflon




If your pistol shot fine until the extractor broke, then odds are you have assembled something wrong...no biggie....it happens to all of us at one time or another....

I am going to reiterate clffy's post

Okay....let's go to the frame. With the slide off of the frame, cock the hammer. Now put your thumb on the hammer to hold it back. Pull the trigger. On the right side of the frame, toward your shooting hand, a small lever should pop up from the frame as you pull the trigger.....

is this happening?

that little lever that pops up is what engages the firing pin stop on a series 80 slide...since you replaced the beavertail, I bet you two turntables and a microphone that you may have assembled the series 80 dog leg set incorrectly. This is VERY easy to do...I have done it more than once, I assure you.

next....when you depress the firing pin stop plunger and try to poke the firing pin through, you have to use something fairly slim and you have to REALLY push that firing pin quite a ways....as has been said, it is inertial. Also you can depress the plunger TOO far by hand and I think block the firing pin. make sure you puch the firing pin FAR ENOUGH while NOT pushing the Stop Plunger TOO far.


Look, the Series 80 can be a bit of a bitch.....but LEARN it.......with knowledge of how to troubleshoot the series 80 you can make new friends and influence people.....


it's true
Top Top