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Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
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Posted: 7/27/2011 7:26:10 PM EDT
I love the M&P.  I switched from XDs a couple years ago, and I've never regretted it.  The one thing I miss about the XD, was Springfield was apparently one of the few gun makers who understood that barrel length means almost nothing when trying to carry concealed.  The only advantage is weight reduction - and if that's your goal, it's a valid one.  However, because it's the grip that often prints, or digs into our sides, or makes carrying a full size handgun a pain, Springfield offered, at least for a time, and XD9 with a 4" barrel and a subcompact grip.  This, or something like it, is what I consider to be the ideal, general purpose, every day, IWB carry gun.  Service length barrel, subcompact grip.  These Glock 19alikes, with their short barrels and long grips make no sense to me.  They have a lesser sight radius, lower velocity, and print like a full size gun.  That's not a compromise - that's giving up advantages for nothing in return.

Enter the chop and bob.  I know I'm not the first to do this, but this is the gun I wish S&W would release.  Want a service sized model?  Put in a full size magazine with an X-grip.  Want to carry without printing? Use a subcompact magazine with a flat floor plate.  It's the best if both worlds.  And now I have an MP9 for every occasion





Link Posted: 7/27/2011 7:28:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Had to change my sig
Link Posted: 7/27/2011 7:33:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
However, because it's the grip that often prints, or digs into our sides, or makes carrying a full size handgun a pain, Springfield offered, at least for a time, and XD9 with a 4" barrel and a subcompact grip.  This, or something like it, is what I consider to be the ideal, general purpose, every day, IWB carry gun.  Service length barrel, subcompact grip.  These Glock 19alikes, with their short barrels and long grips make no sense to me.  They have a lesser sight radius, lower velocity, and print like a full size gun.  That's not a compromise - that's giving up advantages for nothing in return.


I always wondered about that myself!

Thanks for the post.
Link Posted: 7/28/2011 3:41:51 AM EDT
[#3]
Are you going to be at the Shiocton shoot? 'Cause I want to try that out.
Link Posted: 7/28/2011 5:33:32 AM EDT
[#4]
I don't know if I'll make it this year.  It's all the way across the state and I work weekends.
Link Posted: 7/28/2011 2:51:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Have you shot them like this? I assume they're still functional and reliable?
Link Posted: 7/28/2011 3:16:58 PM EDT
[#6]
I shot 50 rounds of ball and 2 magazines of my carry ammo today (124 grain XTP), there is no difference between how it functioned prior to chopping.  When I cut the frame, I left an 1/8" extra material from the length necessary hoping to use my belt sander and a file to get it as close as I could for a nice square magwell with little to no gap.  I had it shaped perfectly so when a mag was seated it looked like a factory finish, but the magazines would not seat reliably.  So it took about 30 more minutes with some emery cloth taped to a file to remove enough material that all of my magazines with whatever kind of floorplate would seat easily and reliably.  I ended up with a little bit of gap, but I guess it's necessary to make mag changes reliable.

The backstrap is completely functional and can still be removed and swapped out, however now it takes an allen wrench instead of a twist and turn.  This weekend I will machine an aluminum block that looks and fits better to retain the backstraps.  I'm thinking of making 20 or 30 of them since that's really the hardest part of a chop job, making a block to fill that empty space behind the magazine.  Maybe more people would take the plunge if they could buy that piece cheap.  I'll also make it to work with full size magazines with an X Grip spacer.
Link Posted: 7/28/2011 4:30:47 PM EDT
[#7]
What a fantastic idea and the execution is great as well.

Don't be surprised if Smith and Wesson picks it up and adds something similar to it's line.

The gun companies have people who pay attention to what they read on these forums.
Link Posted: 7/28/2011 5:19:57 PM EDT
[#8]
do want! thanks for the great post. looks awesome!

DD
Link Posted: 8/2/2011 6:47:12 PM EDT
[#9]
More pics with the aluminum block that replaced the quick and dirty plastic one.  Just needs Duracoat.






Link Posted: 8/3/2011 2:34:09 AM EDT
[#10]
I like it.  A lot.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 5:53:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Bravo!

Even though you didn't mention it, the shrunken beavertail is a great touch!
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 6:38:34 AM EDT
[#12]
Well done.  I've been carrying a Para P10 mated to a 4" upper for years, and have always wondered why this configuration was never picked up by a manufacturer. Hopefully the more people who "roll their own", the more the gun companies will take notice of the long slide/short grip configuration.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 7:17:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Bravo!

Even though you didn't mention it, the shrunken beavertail is a great touch!


Thanks.  The grip is the chop, the beavertail is the bob.  400 grit sandpaper seems to match the finish of the factory plastic so it looks fairly natural.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 8:24:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Man nice job!
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 9:04:48 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bravo!

Even though you didn't mention it, the shrunken beavertail is a great touch!


Thanks.  The grip is the chop, the beavertail is the bob.  400 grit sandpaper seems to match the finish of the factory plastic so it looks fairly natural.

Ah-Ha!  learned another new thing today!


Link Posted: 8/3/2011 11:59:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Nice! Now it looks just like my M&P 45c!
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 4:20:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Nice! I need to do that to my FS .357. Just hate to cut the grip and F it up.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 5:22:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Looks wonky, but I'm sure it shoots very well.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 5:44:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Nice! Now it looks just like my M&P 45c!


I wish I could just drop a long slide on a C frame.  Actually I can, there's just a gap between the dustcover and the slide then.
Link Posted: 8/4/2011 7:55:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Can you take a few pics with full size mag and x-grip. I really like this idea, I just want to see how natural the x-grip blends with the chop.
Link Posted: 8/4/2011 9:06:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Can you take a few pics with full size mag and x-grip. I really like this idea, I just want to see how natural the x-grip blends with the chop.


Waiting for them to come in the mail.  I will update when I get my hands on'em for sure.
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 9:41:29 AM EDT
[#22]
that is really cool.  I have (2) M&P Pro's and carry a 9c everyday.  You've got me wanting to find a used M&P9 to chop and bob.  Great work!
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 1:40:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice! Now it looks just like my M&P 45c!


I wish I could just drop a long slide on a C frame.  Actually I can, there's just a gap between the dustcover and the slide then.

I originally thought this is what you had done. It's disappointing that that can't be done
Link Posted: 9/4/2011 9:34:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Pics for the update????
Link Posted: 9/4/2011 10:25:04 AM EDT
[#25]
Crap!  I forgot

I have the X-grips, I'll snap photos when I get home.
Link Posted: 9/9/2011 1:28:57 AM EDT
[#26]
excellent.....
Link Posted: 9/9/2011 12:01:08 PM EDT
[#27]
that really looks nice !
Link Posted: 9/15/2011 3:11:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Excellent work Kuraki! Very nice craftsmanship and execution.
Link Posted: 9/18/2011 10:15:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Perfect pistol! I've wanted the exact same thing and is the reason I went from carrying my M&P9c to getting a new XDm9c. The compact grip and 3.8" barrel along with 13rd flush and 19rd full size mags makes it a near perfect pistol. The higher capacity is pretty nice in the XDm but the M&P's grip is much nicer.

S&W needs to make exactly what you have there, include a flush 12rd mag and 3 17rd mags with grip extensions! That aluminum filler looks pretty good.

Speaking of the X-grip, does anyone have any tips to get them to fit tighter on the mags?
Link Posted: 10/11/2011 6:53:59 PM EDT
[#30]
any pics with the x-grip on it yet???
Link Posted: 10/13/2011 6:10:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
any pics with the x-grip on it yet???


+1
Link Posted: 10/15/2011 4:31:31 PM EDT
[#32]




Left side you can see I didn't get the magwell quite square.  Hard to tell with a compact magazine.  The front strap doesn't match very well but could be sanded down.
Link Posted: 10/16/2011 8:06:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Love how it looks, except for the x-grip photos.
Link Posted: 10/16/2011 11:32:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I like it.  A lot.


^^^^^^^^^^
Link Posted: 10/17/2011 4:46:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/2011-10-15_19-25-14_758.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/2011-10-15_19-25-25_186.jpg

Left side you can see I didn't get the magwell quite square.  Hard to tell with a compact magazine.  The front strap doesn't match very well but could be sanded down.

I would imagine that doesn't effect its shootability much.

Again.  Looks great.

Excellent work.

Link Posted: 10/17/2011 5:38:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/2011-10-15_19-25-14_758.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/2011-10-15_19-25-25_186.jpg

Left side you can see I didn't get the magwell quite square.  Hard to tell with a compact magazine.  The front strap doesn't match very well but could be sanded down.

I would imagine that doesn't effect its shootability much.

Again.  Looks great.

Excellent work.



You'd be right, in your hand it feels just like a full size.
Link Posted: 10/17/2011 7:54:48 PM EDT
[#37]
I confess.  The only reason I know that is because I have the 9c and an x-grip on 17rd mag.. as well as the 9 FS.

I shoot my 9c as well as my full size... so I'm inclined to have two 9c's instead of one of each.

Hmm.... maybe I should send you my Full Size for you to do the same chop and bob thing? !?!?!?!?!?!

Link Posted: 10/17/2011 9:49:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/2011-10-15_19-25-14_758.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/2011-10-15_19-25-25_186.jpg

Left side you can see I didn't get the magwell quite square.  Hard to tell with a compact magazine. The front strap doesn't match very well but could be sanded down.


It doesn't match up too well on my M&P9c with 17rd/X-grip either. It's nothing you did.
Link Posted: 10/18/2011 4:52:51 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
I confess.  The only reason I know that is because I have the 9c and an x-grip on 17rd mag.. as well as the 9 FS.

I shoot my 9c as well as my full size... so I'm inclined to have two 9c's instead of one of each.

Hmm.... maybe I should send you my Full Size for you to do the same chop and bob thing? !?!?!?!?!?!



I was actually thinking of building a small fixture/jig to lend people wishing to do this.  A hacksaw guide that put the cut right where it needed to be, a small amount of sanding just to clean it up and voila.
Link Posted: 10/18/2011 10:59:41 PM EDT
[#40]
I would be most interested in the guide and the alluminum spacer you made. That looks great. You should get a patent on the chop and bob...
Link Posted: 11/18/2011 6:14:30 AM EDT
[#41]
I hadn't thought of this option before.  Can someone post some pictures of the M&P and M&Pc slides, side by side, for comparison.  I'd also like to see the chopped M&P with a full size mag without the XGrip filler.  

Thanks!
Link Posted: 11/19/2011 11:58:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I hadn't thought of this option before.  Can someone post some pictures of the M&P and M&Pc slides, side by side, for comparison.  I'd also like to see the chopped M&P with a full size mag without the XGrip filler.  

Thanks!


So I went by the gunshop today and looked at them side by side and there's only a small difference between the slides.  Maybe just a little over a half an inch but I'd get to keep the longer sight radius.  They had a barely used M&P 40 full size for $425 so I decided to pick it up.   I'm a little nervous about cutting it so I could use some more pointers.
Link Posted: 11/20/2011 2:45:54 AM EDT
[#43]
Do you own a compact to use as a comparison?  Or did you buy a compact magazine to use in the gun?

I measured the difference in over all length between the full size magazine and the compact magazine with a caliper.  Then I measured that distance up from the bottom of the magazine well and made a mark with a sharpie marker.  I wrapped masking tape around the grip so that the bottom edge of the tape acted as my cutting line, and I made sure to leave about 1/16" extra material to sand/file to fit.  I used a hacksaw to make the cut, smooth, slow strokes and you can cut a nice straight line.
Link Posted: 11/20/2011 3:55:11 AM EDT
[#44]
I bought the compact magazine but haven't received it yet.  I was going to measure the difference then cut just like you said, leaving the grip a 1/4" or so long so I could sand it down to the perfect size.  I was also thinking about getting the X-Grip or A&G mag spacers before starting so that I could make sure I got a good fit with them.  Which are better, the A&G or the X-Grip?  I also found a pair of the MecGar +2 base pads to try out.  I'm not sure if I want to try to make a grip shoe like you did or just epoxy the the grip into place.  

Link Posted: 11/20/2011 3:18:48 PM EDT
[#45]
I can't comment if that other thing is better than the X-Grip, but I find it hard to believe that it would be worse.  1/4" is a lot of material to hand sand.  I've seen a lot of guys leave too much material on projects, and get frustrated, end up going too far because of the frustration.  A hacksaw is a reasonably precise tool, if your work is supported and you make unidirectional cuts.  When I was in trade school, we had to lay out and cut out a drill gauge with a hacksaw, then file to finished size.  Good work with the saw was the difference between 1 day of filing and 2 weeks
Link Posted: 11/21/2011 6:51:56 AM EDT
[#46]
If companies such as S&W, Glock, Springfield, etc started making a product like this...I would definitely buy one in a heartbeat.
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