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Posted: 5/13/2005 10:25:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2005 10:27:02 AM EDT by AROKIE]
which one should i buy?

the colt series 70 is satin nickle finish with 2 mags. hardly shot. $600.00

or

sig p200 with 2 xtra mags also in fine shape with night sights for 550.00

keep in mind i cant get both, which one should i get?

Link Posted: 5/13/2005 10:46:48 AM EDT
They are both good pistols. Get both. If I have 1 choice I'd get the Colt. My .02.

556man
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 10:50:18 AM EDT
I'd go the Colt.

Both are good.

Danny
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 11:11:04 AM EDT
Both are excellent guns........I'm not a big fan of satin nickle........but, once you use a single action trigger or if you have med. to small hands nothing feels or shoots better than a 1911!
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 11:56:38 AM EDT
My SIG went bye bye. I now have five 1911s. Kimber 17 mac 2 and custom 5 inch and custom 3 inch and stainless elete 3 inch and stainless elete target 4 inch and an STI double stack five inch. love them all.

tony

Cape Canaveral
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 11:57:53 AM EDT
Ah...

To be the voice of dissent!

Get the SiG!!!
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 1:01:55 PM EDT
is 600. good for the series 70? in great shape mind you
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 1:57:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
is 600. good for the series 70? in great shape mind you



Average. The Sig will more than likely work, while the Colt might be a a later B serial numbered junker. Do you have any inspection perios on the Colt where you can ascertain it's reliability. I quote noted 1911 pistolsmith Hilton Yam on the quality of Series 70 Colts:

"Colt Series 70: You better know what to look for, or else you'll get burned. Colt’s QC wandered dramatically during the Series 70 runs. The earlier, big letter (70G prefix and G70 suffix serial numbers) rollmark guns tend to be more mechanically solid, but an awful lot of the mid to late production small letter guns (70B prefix and B70 suffix serial numbers) were absolutely abhorrent. The slides on the “B for bad” serial number guns often had shallow or rolled radial lug cuts in the slide, which preclude the correct cycling of the gun. There is no saving such a specimen, and it is to be avoided at all costs. Other common issues include: lines/contours not machined straight, crooked or shallow slide rollmarks, thin or misshapen trigger guards, and thin or wavy front straps. A good specimen is a fantastic choice as a base gun, but it’s also very easy to end up with a turkey with some holes or other machining cuts in the wrong place. It’s currently safer to go with one of the new Colt Custom Shop Series 70’s or other available reproductions that they are making."


Now, to address differences between the guns. The Colt has the potential to ahve a far superior trigger with a very short reset. The Sig is double action and easier to learn to shoot than the 1911, which requires a little practice to ingrain opertation of the thumb safety into one's muscle memory. Also, the Sig is a little snappier to shoot, in part because of it's lightweight frame, and also becasue of it's relatively high bore axis. These are all minor considerations. I would simply shoot both types of guns and then decide. The price you quote for the Colt is average, and the Sig is too. However, you can get used Sigs even cheaper. I've seen decent ones for $400 lately.
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 4:43:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2005 4:48:43 PM EDT by 556man]

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
is 600. good for the series 70? in great shape mind you



No idea on the value of a series 70 but it sounds a little on the high side to me. If I had $600, I would add about $30.00 more and get a Springfield Loaded with night sights. Just my .02.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistols/PX9109LLarge.jpg

556man
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 6:33:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hobbs5624:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
is 600. good for the series 70? in great shape mind you



Average. The Sig will more than likely work, while the Colt might be a a later B serial numbered junker. Do you have any inspection perios on the Colt where you can ascertain it's reliability. I quote noted 1911 pistolsmith Hilton Yam on the quality of Series 70 Colts:

"Colt Series 70: You better know what to look for, or else you'll get burned. Colt’s QC wandered dramatically during the Series 70 runs. The earlier, big letter (70G prefix and G70 suffix serial numbers) rollmark guns tend to be more mechanically solid, but an awful lot of the mid to late production small letter guns (70B prefix and B70 suffix serial numbers) were absolutely abhorrent. The slides on the “B for bad” serial number guns often had shallow or rolled radial lug cuts in the slide, which preclude the correct cycling of the gun. There is no saving such a specimen, and it is to be avoided at all costs. Other common issues include: lines/contours not machined straight, crooked or shallow slide rollmarks, thin or misshapen trigger guards, and thin or wavy front straps. A good specimen is a fantastic choice as a base gun, but it’s also very easy to end up with a turkey with some holes or other machining cuts in the wrong place. It’s currently safer to go with one of the new Colt Custom Shop Series 70’s or other available reproductions that they are making."


Now, to address differences between the guns. The Colt has the potential to ahve a far superior trigger with a very short reset. The Sig is double action and easier to learn to shoot than the 1911, which requires a little practice to ingrain opertation of the thumb safety into one's muscle memory. Also, the Sig is a little snappier to shoot, in part because of it's lightweight frame, and also becasue of it's relatively high bore axis. These are all minor considerations. I would simply shoot both types of guns and then decide. The price you quote for the Colt is average, and the Sig is too. However, you can get used Sigs even cheaper. I've seen decent ones for $400 lately.




Once again hobbs,...........outstanding post.......I never knew that about S70's!
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 8:43:28 PM EDT
Thanks Married2NAVCOP.

I thought I better clarify one more thing. There are two types of nickel S70 guns. One is completely satin nickeled. The other has a blued grip safety, slide release, bushing, plug, grip screws, trigger, and thumb safety, with Pachmayr Colt medallion grips. The latter is not very deirable, and if this is what will cost you $600, it has little collector value, and is probably a "B" serial numbered gun.

If it's the former, then $600 is a pretty good price. The last time I looked at Fjestad's Blue Book of Gun Values, the former was going for somethinglike $800 in 95% condition. I have a Blue Book at work, and can look it up if you want.
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 9:37:39 PM EDT
How much do you have budgeted for gunsmithing?

If you answered "none", or "I don't want to screw with gunsmithing" then get the P220. 99% of shooters aren't good enough to make one shoot better than the other. The Sig is more reliable, costs less, has night sights.

(I lament the loss of my P220 every day......)
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 2:26:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2005 2:27:11 AM EDT by M4]
The SIG 220. I can't believe you're even asking this.

If the purpose of this pistol is in any capacity related to personal defense, the SIG is by far the better choice.

Flawless reliability vs. might work, might not. Might have been a "good run", might have been slop?

SIG 220...absolutely no contest.
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 3:05:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4:
The SIG 220. I can't believe you're even asking this.

If the purpose of this pistol is in any capacity related to personal defense, the SIG is by far the better choice.

Flawless reliability vs. might work, might not. Might have been a "good run", might have been slop?

SIG 220...absolutely no contest.



+2

LB
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 3:41:42 AM EDT
cough/SIG/cough
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 4:28:59 AM EDT
thanks for all your responses, Im leaning toward the sig because i would rather not take the chance of having a problematic series 70.
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 4:31:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
thanks for all your responses, Im leaning toward the sig because i would rather not take the chance of having a problematic series 70.



Smart choice. I like an optimized 1911 better, but if you're looking for out of the box functionality, better to go with the Sig.
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 4:38:18 AM EDT
I'd go for a 1911. Take Hilton Yam's statements to heart, but a good 1911 is tough to beat. But of course, no matter how much I've tried to like the Sig, they've never worked for me. When it comes to shooting fast and accurately, 1911 beats the Sig hands down. Unless of course you're Ernie Langdon (Of course I wonder how he would have done with a 1911? The magic is in the magician not the wand) If defense is the goal, either will work, of course if you're looking for a tool, that's purely for self defense then I'd go a Glock.
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 4:23:30 PM EDT
SIG.
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 4:29:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 7:21:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolffie:
I'd go for a 1911. Take Hilton Yam's statements to heart, but a good 1911 is tough to beat. But of course, no matter how much I've tried to like the Sig, they've never worked for me. When it comes to shooting fast and accurately, 1911 beats the Sig hands down. Unless of course you're Ernie Langdon (Of course I wonder how he would have done with a 1911? The magic is in the magician not the wand) If defense is the goal, either will work, of course if you're looking for a tool, that's purely for self defense then I'd go a Glock.




Oh, no you don't.............you better not muddy the waters any further by dragging Glock into this!
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 9:16:24 PM EDT
Hey, I thought I was the only angry white male? At least I can claim large, angry man too.

You are right, Glock is a different animal. And if I could only own one pistol I'd have to make it a 1911. That said, my knock around, don't care if it gets banged up, spends it's life in an IWB soaking up sweat, neglected, take what I give it and beg for more, abused, cinderella of a pistol is my Glock 20. She may not be shiney and pretty but get's invited to the ball every day, because she's light weight, packs a wallop while being easy to control, accurate and a lot of fun.

Not trying to muddy the waters, just singing the praises of my carry gun. My vote for this thread is still to go with a good 1911. Even if that doesn't happen to be the Colt in question.
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 9:23:50 PM EDT
Get the Colt, you wont be dissapointed
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 10:51:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2005 10:57:27 PM EDT by bushjumper]

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
which one should i buy?

the colt series 70 is satin nickle finish with 2 mags. hardly shot. $600.00

or

sig p200 with 2 xtra mags also in fine shape with night sights for 550.00

keep in mind i cant get both, which one should i get?




$600 seems fair for an original series 70 in satin nickle. If it's a refinish job, it's worth less than that though.

$550 seems high for a Sig P220. CDNN is selling trade ins for $389.00

Heres the deal. If you want to take the time to learn the nuances of the 1911, get the Colt.
If you want a gun that will grow in value, get the colt.
If you don't like your gun not having a manual safety, get the colt.

If you want something simpler to operate, get the sig.
If you want something that will feed more ammo types stock out of the box, get the sig.

Both guns should be accurate. The nickle finish on the Colt will hold up better. Sigs rust pretty easy.

I've had both guns. I actually traded the Sig away (paid $469.00 for it brand new in 1994) for a Colt 1911 US Property marked pistol made in 1918. It had been refinished, but IMO I got a bargain. In your case I'd get the Colt. I do plan on owning a Sig P220 and P226 again someday though.

Edited to add: I'd take what Hilton Yam said with a grain of salt. It sounds like the same kind of crap American Handgunner printed when they said the Colt Commercial (pre 70 series) pistols were all made from rejected USGI parts and were terrible guns.
Link Posted: 5/15/2005 8:18:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bushjumper:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
which one should i buy?

the colt series 70 is satin nickle finish with 2 mags. hardly shot. $600.00

or

sig p200 with 2 xtra mags also in fine shape with night sights for 550.00

keep in mind i cant get both, which one should i get?




$600 seems fair for an original series 70 in satin nickle. If it's a refinish job, it's worth less than that though.

$550 seems high for a Sig P220. CDNN is selling trade ins for $389.00

Heres the deal. If you want to take the time to learn the nuances of the 1911, get the Colt.
If you want a gun that will grow in value, get the colt.
If you don't like your gun not having a manual safety, get the colt.

If you want something simpler to operate, get the sig.
If you want something that will feed more ammo types stock out of the box, get the sig.

Both guns should be accurate. The nickle finish on the Colt will hold up better. Sigs rust pretty easy.

I've had both guns. I actually traded the Sig away (paid $469.00 for it brand new in 1994) for a Colt 1911 US Property marked pistol made in 1918. It had been refinished, but IMO I got a bargain. In your case I'd get the Colt. I do plan on owning a Sig P220 and P226 again someday though.

Edited to add: I'd take what Hilton Yam said with a grain of salt. It sounds like the same kind of crap American Handgunner printed when they said the Colt Commercial (pre 70 series) pistols were all made from rejected USGI parts and were terrible guns.



Let me put this into context. Yam is not bashing Colts, and is simply stating that b serial Series 70 guns can be atrocious. I know this from personal experience. I've worked on several, and owned a few too. Several have been way out of spec. Unfortunately they were made a the lowest point of Colt's production quality, a time when labor and management did not get along well at all. It's hard to tell just by looking if you get one of these lemons, and I think that is all Yam is saying.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:40:33 AM EDT
fwiw:

i own 3 1911/1991s. all of them have required some time at the gunsmith's bench to function properly, normally i discover this in the middle of an idpa match, or a bowling pin shoot.

i own 2 sig p220s, one with and one w/o night sights, the older one w/o night sights is stamped "made in west germany" while the newer one simply states: "made in germany" on the slide.

if i couldn't own both, i'd choose the sig. better weapon overall, and i've run literally thousands of rounds through both of 'em.

Link Posted: 5/22/2005 8:19:07 AM EDT
I have both and carry both. Go with the Colt first. No matter what it will work with two rounds, any hardball and Winchester Silvertip. I'd bet the farm it will work well with Corbon DPX also. Then get a police buy back refurbished Sig from CDNN. If you need you can have fun upgrading the Colt if you want. I enjoy putting in a Ed Brown drop in Beaver tail, etc but wasn't needed. I have 5 Colts and 3 Sigs and carry for specific purpose. For shtf when I will need to be armed with the same caliber as the military I have a Detonics in my grab bag and a Taurus 92 on my LBE shoulder holster.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 12:15:05 PM EDT
Sig 220. I have the 220ST and by far has out shot all my other guns I've owned and shot. You will not be disappointed with such a fine handgun.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:41:37 PM EDT
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