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Posted: 10/17/2004 5:57:10 PM EST
I am sure this issue has come up meny times in the past.
As you can see I have not posted much so lets start this all over again.
I also know most people have stronge convictions on this issue.
I would like to have personal feelings. experiences and facts, please.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:05:33 PM EST
What do you mean chambereed or not? Are you talking about a replacement barrel?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:14:22 PM EST
...Do you mean carrying with a round chambered?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:21:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By shotgun:
...Do you mean carrying with a round chambered?



I always carry my piece like this.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:29:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By shotgun:
...Do you mean carrying with a round chambered?



I always carry my piece like this.


That's what the......is for.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:33:21 PM EST
If you don't carry with one in the pipe, you obviously doubt choice of CCW and/or your skills.

If that's the case, you need to re-think your kit and/or train harder.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:36:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By shotgun:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By shotgun:
...Do you mean carrying with a round chambered?



I always carry my piece like this.


That's what the......is for.



I gathered, I was just voting.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:38:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By shotgun:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By shotgun:
...Do you mean carrying with a round chambered?



I always carry my piece like this.


That's what the......is for.



I gathered, I was just voting.


Well hell. I guess I'll vote too.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:38:56 PM EST
.45 is cocked and locked but Glock is unchambered
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:50:06 PM EST
An empty gun is nothing more than a club.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:06:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By shotgun:
...Do you mean carrying with a round chambered?



I always carry my piece like this.



+1

It does you no good to have a bg 5 feet from you with a big-ass rambo knife and you have to jack a round first... he will have that knife buried hilt deep in your gut before you can bring the gun into action.

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:23:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 7:23:41 PM EST by Hal9k]

Originally Posted By Bear_B:
It does you no good to have a bg 5 feet from you with a big-ass rambo knife and you have to jack a round first... he will have that knife buried hilt deep in your gut before you can bring the gun into action.



I maintain that, if you're 5' from said blade-wielding goblin with an unloaded piece, you've already screwed up pretty badly.

As for carrying an unloaded Glock because there's "no safety" well, what about all of the DA revolvers that were carried over the years, and especially before the advent of the modern "black guns," huh? Don't let your lack of confidence (training) get you a permanent dirt nap.

Remember, the best safely is between your ears.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:31:03 PM EST
I keep my P7 chambered. Just squeeze to cock it
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:41:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Taxman:
I keep my P7 chambered. Just squeeze to cock it



Yeah, but that's not really even fair, is it? The P7 is probably one of the more inspired designs of the last few decades. A .40 caliber P7M10 is on my short list. Imagine what a P7 lemon squeezer in .45 acp or 10mm could do for you, huh?

I'll keep dreaming.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:43:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hal9k:

Originally Posted By Taxman:
I keep my P7 chambered. Just squeeze to cock it



Yeah, but that's not really even fair, is it? The P7 is probably one of the more inspired designs of the last few decades. A .40 caliber P7M10 is on my short list. Imagine what a P7 lemon squeezer in .45 acp or 10mm could do for you, huh?

I'll keep dreaming.



Its a nice gun, until you want to buy an extra mag....
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 8:52:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rabon:
An empty gun is nothing more than a club.

yup
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 8:57:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 9:30:33 PM EST
Excuse me! You there, approaching me and pulling a gun from your waistband, yes you. Would you mind if I took the time to rack the slide on this gun I'm licensed to carry? It would only be fair.




Guess the answer was no.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 9:44:25 PM EST
If you're gonna carry for self defense, carry one in the pipe. If you don't think you can handle that, maybe you shouldn't be carrying. A good holster that covers the trigger is a must.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 9:55:24 PM EST
Condition One.


That is all.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 10:32:38 PM EST
Should have been a bit more specific in your poll.....I'm guessing your talking about carry condition? It's just not smart to carry without one in the chamber. What good is it carrying if your carrying an unloaded gun? The bad guy is not going to wait for you to rack the slide.....
And just to add for the gentleman with the Glock that carries without one in the pipe. Pick another gun or a better rig. If you know what your doing a Glock is safe in a holster. I wouldn't stick one in the front of my pants otherwise, but you have to pull that trigger to set one off. I used to carry a Sig P232 .380 a lot always loaded no safety as a Glock other than decocker, but I felt perfectly safe with it in an in the pants holster. The trigger guard area was covered by the holster.

-John
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:48:21 AM EST
I have a glock 22. But if I was going to get my CCW I would get a Glock 36, and NOT carry one in the chamber. My reasoning, shooting someone would be the last thing I would want to do. Why you ask? Well, If I am ever brought up on charges for killing someone I will be sure that they don't think that I am a pistol packing lunatic that wants to walk around killing people. There will also be no question as to me using my firearm as a last ditch effort to defend myself.

If a situation were to develop I would think/hope that I could talk the person out of attacking me. I would first of all call 911(I always carry my cell phone), while I am doing that I would be telling him to stand down and that I am armed. By doing this whoever is on the other end(dispacher) will be able to record my conversation of attempting to talk the person down. ONLY if the person refuses to cooperate would I pull my weapon out, and then rack the slide as a last chance for him to change his behavior and see that I am serious and have the power to stop his attack. To me, racking the slide and him seeing that I NOW have a round chambered would be the same as firing a warning shot in the air only better because firing a warning shot may not be a good idea in a certain situation.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:50:45 AM EST
You need to get some training from someplace other than the TV.


Originally Posted By Msokol13:
I have a glock 22. But if I was going to get my CCW I would get a Glock 36, and NOT carry one in the chamber. My reasoning, shooting someone would be the last thing I would want to do. Why you ask? Well, If I am ever brought up on charges for killing someone I will be sure that they don't think that I am a pistol packing lunatic that wants to walk around killing people. There will also be no question as to me using my firearm as a last ditch effort to defend myself.

If a situation were to develop I would think/hope that I could talk the person out of attacking me. I would first of all call 911(I always carry my cell phone), while I am doing that I would be telling him to stand down and that I am armed. By doing this whoever is on the other end(dispacher) will be able to record my conversation of attempting to talk the person down. ONLY if the person refuses to cooperate would I pull my weapon out, and then rack the slide as a last chance for him to change his behavior and see that I am serious and have the power to stop his attack. To me, racking the slide and him seeing that I NOW have a round chambered would be the same as firing a warning shot in the air only better because firing a warning shot may not be a good idea in a certain situation.


Link Posted: 10/18/2004 8:17:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
You need to get some training from someplace other than the TV.


Originally Posted By Msokol13:
I have a glock 22. But if I was going to get my CCW I would get a Glock 36, and NOT carry one in the chamber. My reasoning, shooting someone would be the last thing I would want to do. Why you ask? Well, If I am ever brought up on charges for killing someone I will be sure that they don't think that I am a pistol packing lunatic that wants to walk around killing people. There will also be no question as to me using my firearm as a last ditch effort to defend myself.

If a situation were to develop I would think/hope that I could talk the person out of attacking me. I would first of all call 911(I always carry my cell phone), while I am doing that I would be telling him to stand down and that I am armed. By doing this whoever is on the other end(dispacher) will be able to record my conversation of attempting to talk the person down. ONLY if the person refuses to cooperate would I pull my weapon out, and then rack the slide as a last chance for him to change his behavior and see that I am serious and have the power to stop his attack. To me, racking the slide and him seeing that I NOW have a round chambered would be the same as firing a warning shot in the air only better because firing a warning shot may not be a good idea in a certain situation.





+1

You would be dead by the time you pulled your gun dropped your cell phone and racked the slide took aim and shot. And why the hell would you tell someone you are armed if your gun isnt even ready to use?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 8:39:19 AM EST
wolfman,
When I first started carrying a 1911 (20 years ago), I carried for a while
cocked & locked on an empty chamber so that I could safely get used to
seeing the hammer cocked. For a while, it would startle me to see that.
Now that I have learned that I can trust the 1911 safety system & me,
it's no problem. I feel better about the 1911 safety when it's in a holster.
If I have one of my bag guns, (P-12 or Hipower) they are usually loaded
chamber & hammer down. If they go from the bag, to my holster, then
they go cocked & locked.
Every things takes a little training. I hope this helps.

Johnny C!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 8:40:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 10:55:01 AM EST by Johnny_C]
Duplicate post, so solly!

Johnny C!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:04:53 AM EST
I didn't vote because it is not a clear issue. There are a lot of variables that can enter into the decision. But to shed some facts on the matter, for the CCW perspective it really doesn't matter too much. You can get the gun into action with about the same speed no matter what condition you carry it, and the difference is speed is more than offset by other factors such as type of holster, location of carry, etc. Most modern guns are perfectly safe carrying with the chamber loaded, but in most situations whether the chamber is loaded or not is not that important to the outcome.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:38:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hal9k:
If you don't carry with one in the pipe, you obviously doubt choice of CCW and/or your skills.

If that's the case, you need to re-think your kit and/or train harder.



+1

Any decent quality modern handgun SHOULD BE safe to carry with a round in the chamber. Even the old 1911 is perfectly safe.

Unless, of course, and idiot is handling it, and idiots will find a way to kill themselves with ANY weapon.

I know all the manuals say to never carry with a round in the chamber. But they sell those very same weapons to LE and military people for fully loaded carry. So screw that.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:52:20 AM EST
hell, when i carried a 1911 it was condition 0.

has as many safeties in the way of an ad as a glock (2).

if you don't want yer gun to go off, keep yer damn finger off the trigger!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:16:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
I have a glock 22. But if I was going to get my CCW I would get a Glock 36, and NOT carry one in the chamber. My reasoning, shooting someone would be the last thing I would want to do. Why you ask? Well, If I am ever brought up on charges for killing someone I will be sure that they don't think that I am a pistol packing lunatic that wants to walk around killing people. There will also be no question as to me using my firearm as a last ditch effort to defend myself.

If a situation were to develop I would think/hope that I could talk the person out of attacking me. I would first of all call 911(I always carry my cell phone), while I am doing that I would be telling him to stand down and that I am armed. By doing this whoever is on the other end(dispacher) will be able to record my conversation of attempting to talk the person down. ONLY if the person refuses to cooperate would I pull my weapon out, and then rack the slide as a last chance for him to change his behavior and see that I am serious and have the power to stop his attack. To me, racking the slide and him seeing that I NOW have a round chambered would be the same as firing a warning shot in the air only better because firing a warning shot may not be a good idea in a certain situation.





please tell me you're kidding...

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:28:52 AM EST
On the plus side... I'm glad to see so many people have given serious thought as to what they would do in a life or death situation. Personally, I agree that the gun coming out is a last resort. I, however, can imagine quite a few circumstances where there may not be time to rack a slide. If I ever have to draw, its going to be seroius and somebody is going to die. If life is not on the line, the gun stays put. I'm not going to bluster, bluff or threaten. If I pull it, I'm shooting and if I'm going to be shooting, I need to be ready. Adding in the step of racking a slide seems like a very bad idea to me.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:09:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 12:10:23 PM EST by _DR]


Originally Posted By darm441:
I didn't vote because it is not a clear issue. There are a lot of variables that can enter into the decision. But to shed some facts on the matter, for the CCW perspective it really doesn't matter too much. You can get the gun into action with about the same speed no matter what condition you carry it, and the difference is speed is more than offset by other factors such as type of holster, location of carry, etc. Most modern guns are perfectly safe carrying with the chamber loaded, but in most situations whether the chamber is loaded or not is not that important to the outcome.



+1 unless you are at the OK Corral. I don't live anywhere near there.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:13:51 PM EST
If you carry, you must carry in condition one. Don't count on having both hands free.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:16:26 PM EST
<----cocked&locked.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 2:34:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 3:31:31 PM EST by VA-gunnut]
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 3:12:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 3:14:12 PM EST by Msokol13]
All I have to say is to each his own. I know that I WONT be the one in prison with the REAL criminals when the prosecution proves that I did not explore ALL options before I killed a man. Believe me, with the media the way it is any attorney would LOVE to put someone away for having a CCW and using it to defend himself. All they have to do is prove that there were other options available and if they determine that you pulled your gun out on the man like you were in the wild west with a shoot first ask questions later attitude it would be enough to put you away for homicide......ESPECIALLY if the assailant who you thought was armed had his car keys in his hand.


IIRC I once read an article in a reputable gun magazine(I believe Guns and Ammo) that was talking about laser sights, night sights, flash lights and other devices of this nature. The article basically said that in a case I believe in Arizona a man shot an intruder and was brought up on charges because he had a laser on his hangun. The jury basically convicted the man because "he was looking for a fight" by having a laser on his handgun.

With attitudes like that I will be sure that I cover my ass.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 3:30:18 PM EST
Unloaded gun = brick
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 3:40:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
All I have to say is to each his own. I know that I WONT be the one in prison with the REAL criminals when the prosecution proves that I did not explore ALL options before I killed a man.



I believe this is a good attitude to have but a poor way to carry your weapon.
Pepper spray gives you a non lethal option. A leo who trains leo's, moonlights as an expert witness, and happened to instruct my last ccw renewal class, said that if you are gonna pack, be damn sure and pack some pepper spray for the concern stated above. Pepper spray that never gets used looks better to a jury than a shooter without options.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 3:43:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 3:44:55 PM EST by -Absolut-]

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
You need to get some training from someplace other than the TV.


Originally Posted By Msokol13:
I have a glock 22. But if I was going to get my CCW I would get a Glock 36, and NOT carry one in the chamber. My reasoning, shooting someone would be the last thing I would want to do. Why you ask? Well, If I am ever brought up on charges for killing someone I will be sure that they don't think that I am a pistol packing lunatic that wants to walk around killing people. There will also be no question as to me using my firearm as a last ditch effort to defend myself.

If a situation were to develop I would think/hope that I could talk the person out of attacking me. I would first of all call 911(I always carry my cell phone), while I am doing that I would be telling him to stand down and that I am armed. By doing this whoever is on the other end(dispacher) will be able to record my conversation of attempting to talk the person down. ONLY if the person refuses to cooperate would I pull my weapon out, and then rack the slide as a last chance for him to change his behavior and see that I am serious and have the power to stop his attack. To me, racking the slide and him seeing that I NOW have a round chambered would be the same as firing a warning shot in the air only better because firing a warning shot may not be a good idea in a certain situation.



couldn't agree more. you need to seriously rethink owning and carrying firearms.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 3:55:26 PM EST
your right, I wouldnt want to argue with a guy who has 24+ posts a day on this website, looks like you may need to rethink about going outside once in a while
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 3:56:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
You need to get some training from someplace other than the TV.


Originally Posted By Msokol13:
I have a glock 22. But if I was going to get my CCW I would get a Glock 36, and NOT carry one in the chamber. My reasoning, shooting someone would be the last thing I would want to do. Why you ask? Well, If I am ever brought up on charges for killing someone I will be sure that they don't think that I am a pistol packing lunatic that wants to walk around killing people. There will also be no question as to me using my firearm as a last ditch effort to defend myself.

If a situation were to develop I would think/hope that I could talk the person out of attacking me. I would first of all call 911(I always carry my cell phone), while I am doing that I would be telling him to stand down and that I am armed. By doing this whoever is on the other end(dispacher) will be able to record my conversation of attempting to talk the person down. ONLY if the person refuses to cooperate would I pull my weapon out, and then rack the slide as a last chance for him to change his behavior and see that I am serious and have the power to stop his attack. To me, racking the slide and him seeing that I NOW have a round chambered would be the same as firing a warning shot in the air only better because firing a warning shot may not be a good idea in a certain situation.



couldn't agree more. you need to seriously rethink owning and carrying firearms.



+1

Assuming you're going to have time for ANYTHING but a quick reaction in a violent encounter can get you dead.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:28:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:33:28 PM EST
yes, always
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:35:45 PM EST
You don't even understand what you don't understand about this. Good luck with all your machinations - I hope you get a chance to carry them all out.



Originally Posted By Msokol13:
your right, I wouldnt want to argue with a guy who has 24+ posts a day on this website, looks like you may need to rethink about going outside once in a while

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:22:25 PM EST
yes, of course!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 8:07:51 PM EST
In a real life confrontation, you should consider yourself blessed if you are able to draw down and shoot an assailant before he kills or maims you, especially if he is on the attack and you are reacting to that attack. KISS applies to the extreme here... draw, site picture, squeeze the trigger.

You are NOT going to be able to deescalate a situation in which someone is trying to kill you. There is either an immediate, believable, and deliberate threat to your life, or there is not.

If you are afraid to shoot someone, there is nothing wrong with that. But instead of carrying a firearm and practicing shooting, you should be wearing Nikes and practicing running.

As the old saying goes, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 4:42:02 AM EST
Carrying a firearm for the purposes of self defense that is NOT in a condition that is ready to fire is: STUPID.

When you TRULY NEED a firearm, you need it in a hurry. And I don't think the bad guy will be kind enough to let you load your weapon and get it ready before beginning the fight with you.

Any reasonable carry gun made from 1900 on is perfectly safe to carry with a round in the chamber in any normal circumstances. If you plan on bouncing the weapon off of concrete a lot, then you might want to reconsider, but if you intend to CARRY the weapon instead of slamming it around on the ground all the time, then chambered carry is perfectly safe.

I have NEVER carried a firearm without a round in the chamber for defensive purposes. Chambered round and safety off if it is a DA pistol, or thumb safety on if it is a SA pistol. There is no other way to carry a pistol. They must be ready to be put into action quickly and under awkward circumstances, AND under stress.

When staring over the sights at a guy trying to kill you, it might be a little difficult to remember to chamber a round. I have seen people nearly get killed because they forgot to take the safety off of their weapon when they drew on a threat before. In the moment where crap hits the fan, you need everything to be as simple and direct as possible.

Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:26:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
All I have to say is to each his own. I know that I WONT be the one in prison with the REAL criminals when the prosecution proves that I did not explore ALL options before I killed a man. Believe me, with the media the way it is any attorney would LOVE to put someone away for having a CCW and using it to defend himself. All they have to do is prove that there were other options available and if they determine that you pulled your gun out on the man like you were in the wild west with a shoot first ask questions later attitude it would be enough to put you away for homicide......ESPECIALLY if the assailant who you thought was armed had his car keys in his hand.


IIRC I once read an article in a reputable gun magazine(I believe Guns and Ammo) that was talking about laser sights, night sights, flash lights and other devices of this nature. The article basically said that in a case I believe in Arizona a man shot an intruder and was brought up on charges because he had a laser on his hangun. The jury basically convicted the man because "he was looking for a fight" by having a laser on his handgun.

With attitudes like that I will be sure that I cover my ass.




Dude....

Please tell me you didn't write this...

Look. Lethal force IS a last resort. But here is what you are missing:

I am not required to use various levels of force to meet the force being tossed at me. I don't have to ratchet through all the various levels of force before I resort to lethal force IF I am already confronted by lethal force. That is stupid and NOT required by law. All that is required is a reasonable conviction that my life is in danger to respond with lethal force.

If I pull my weapon, it is because I am in fear for my life. If the bad guy relents after having seen my weapon, then great. I call the cops and he lives. A good outcome for everybody. But once I pull out that pistol, I had darned well better be prepared to pull the trigger and do so RIGHT NOW. Because if the encounter wasn't at lethal levels before I pulled the pistol, it sure as hell is AFTER I pull it. The minute that pistol comes out of the holster, the stakes go up and everything starts to happen REAL QUICK.

And what does chambering a round do to the bad guy? When I pull a gun on someone I manifest the intent to use that weapon. Depending on a slide rack is akin to a parent telling a kid "I really mean it this time!!" Might somebody be convinced that you are serious when you rack the slide? Sure. Somebody MIGHT be convinced. But that is a very fuzzy calculation. Let me give you some hard numbers: It takes the average TRAINED person 1.5 seconds to draw a handgun from an OPENLY CARRIED holster and place a single shot on a target. It takes LESS THAN 1.5 SECONDS FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON TO CHARGE ANOTHER PERSON 20-30 FEET AWAY WITH A KNIFE.

That means that by the time I even have the opportunity to pull the trigger, the bad guy is already so close he can tell what I had for lunch. So now is the perfect time to go fumbling with my slide right?

No. Not to mention that you can actually induce a nasty jam in the weapon by waiting to make the thing ready for combat in a hurried situation like that. In bad situations even the SIMPLEST actions become very difficult.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:31:21 AM EST
Condition 1 red' to go...always!

I couldn't imagine pulling pistol, racking slide, then aiming. What if you didn't have both hands free? What if your attacker is on top of you or is striking you. What if, what if, what if.....You need to act fast and having one less thing to do to save yourself is important IMHO. So keep one in the pipe and be ready to go.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:41:37 AM EST
Oh, and if you haven't served as a slotted sniper, please change your avatar and message..you're embarrassing the community and yourself.

Thank you,

The Management
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:43:43 AM EST
<Sigh> It is sad to have to bring facts and reality into discussions like this, because it tends to get so many people so excited, but let's at least try it, OK? Let's look at history first. Historically chamber empty carry has been advocated by an overwhelming number of authorities/agencies in some pretty hostile areas, and there has not been much of a problem with it. In fact, until fairly recently, chamber empty carry was the normal, common way to carry an autoloading pistol, and there was not much of a problem with it. Some firearms (particularly but not exclusively older models) actually lend themselves to a more effective use with chamber empty due to atrocious trigger pulls, poorly designed safeties, etc. Depending on a persons lifestyle, in some circumstances it can make more senese to carry chamber empty. I find it sort of funny to see all these folks talking about how the gun is useless when carried chamber empty when there have been so many instances of the gun, carried with an empty chamber, having been used effectively.
For those who are so concerned about speed of presentation, as mentioned before that is going to be far more dependant on things like the holster design, where the gun is carried, and other factors nobody seems to get so worked up about. In reality for the chamber empty carry to matter the incident has to happen in an extremely short timeframe. If the incident occurs before you can draw and fire, it doesn't matter what the chamber condition is. If it happens after you have had the time to draw, chamber, and fire, it doesn't matter what the chamber condition. So the only time it will matter is if the incident occurs in that tiny fraction of time it takes to actually chamber the round. Let's assume that you can draaw and fire in 2.0 seconds. Let's assume it takes you 1/4 second to rack your slide. So any incident that occurs before a 2.0 second time the carry condition does not matter. Any incident that occurs after 2.25 seconds the carry condition doesn't matter.
The other argument, that one might not have both hands available, has a bit more credence, but only a bit. It is a fairly rare event that will start with only one hand available, and learning how to rack the slide one-handed should be as much a part of a gun carriers skills as shooting strong-hand only and weak-hand only.
So, while there is little need to carry chamber empty for most, given today's modern firearms designs, the person who chooses to do so does not put themselves at much, if any, disadvantage in real life.
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