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Posted: 4/19/2011 4:43:18 PM EDT
I had an occurrence this weekend that has me questioning my current carry type. I usually carry either a S&W M&P357c or a Kimber Ultra CDP II in a N82 Tactical IWB or a Comp-Tac MTAC IWB both at approximately the 4:30 position with either a S&W Bodyguard 38 or Glock 33 in a Desantis Nemesis Pocket Holster on my weak side.

Due to Back problems I have had to stop wearing a belt, at least a belt tight enough to secure a weapon, I have been restricted to pocket carry. I never thought anything of this because I can employ both my G33 and Bodyguard 38 extremely quickly. The problem is that this past weekend me and the wife were cleaning out my old house because we are selling the property and are under contract. Our property is very rural so there aren't very many neighbors and the next door neighbor is my oldest brother who is selling his adjoining property in the same sale as mine. Anyway it was cold inside the house so we had the front door open to let the warm Virginia Spring air in. The wife and I were working in the back part of the house in the dining room. We were wearing nitrile gloves because of everything being soiled from the house being uninhabited for the past 11 years. We hear footsteps coming up the hall from the living room. From me living in the house the first 18 years of my life I know if I can hear footsteps on the linoleum the person is inside of 50 feet from me. I quickly reach into my front strong side pocket to retrieve my G33 and I can't get the pistol out of my pocket. Luckily the footsteps belonged to my brother. If it would have been someone else I could have been unprepared. I don't know if it was the loss of tactility from the Nitrile gloves or from the situation. I have never had to employ a weapon from anything other than holster before but this is an eye opening experience.

I need suggestions for another way to carry that ya'll have found to work well. I carried in a shoulder holster when I was in the Army as a Black Hawk Crew Chief. I like this method a lot but I don't dress in a way to easily conceal carry this way. Also I believe ankle carry is out due to the back problems and having to bend over to employ the weapon. Any insight would be extremely helpful.
Thanks Craig.
Link Posted: 4/19/2011 4:52:49 PM EDT
Subcompact Glocks aren't pocket guns, in my experience, because you can't get a firing grip on them in the pocket...you end up juggling with them to try and get them out, which fails in an "oh ship" moment.

If my only option is pocket carry, it's a J-frame. My 442 works fine out of a front pocket. Glock 27 rides on the belt. Wish I had better news for you.
Link Posted: 4/19/2011 4:57:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2011 4:57:52 PM EDT by Flatulence]
I've used a stiff, tier one belt with the Spartan from Comp-Tac. Wore the belt out. Worked fine. I have also been using the smartcarry holster for years.
The Spartan IWB is great on many levels including the faster drawing capabilities over the smartcarry.
On top of the smartcarry's deep concealment abilities for my M&P 9c, I like being able to have a gun on me, secured, while wearing flimsy sweats or any of my everyday clothes that don't let the gun savy know I'm carrying. It's also nice to be able to change my pants right in front of my kids/golf buddies/hunting buddies... and them not having a clue that I have a gun on me.

I've been using the loopbelt for quite a while and I now enjoy an even more discrete carry w/ the Spartan and M&P 9c. No clips showing. No tell-tale belt to alert anyone.
I just put my underwear on, strap on the loopbelt - in no way too tight to cause the issues you talked about - and attach the Spartan IWB w/ M&P. Now I can wear whatever I want. No special belts with my pants or no belt at all with my pants/shorts/sweats. Change my pants and no one knows I have a gun on me. Turn my strong side away and change shirts w/o them knowing either.


If you like more discretion or want to carry while wearing flimsy pants, it's cheap enough to give it a try. Less than $10 shipped.
www.loopbelt.com Measure your waist. Buy a belt 2" longer than that for your IWB holster to fit under. Buy two for less than $20 shipped. It fits snug against your body and doesn't sag.

(No, I don't work for them. I'm just a guy who's carried the traditional ways and found something better for less money.)
Link Posted: 4/19/2011 5:01:11 PM EDT
I would put the gloves back on and give it a try a few times and see what the outcome was. This might shed some light on the prob. That being said I have carried a ultra light revolver in my rear pocket for 8 years. I find having the butt of the gun stick out aids in a quick draw. I wear long shirts untucked..

I have recently started carrying a USP compact and found that an OWB holster speeds up my response time compared to a IWB.. All of this is personal preference that I have gained for myself..YMMV
Link Posted: 4/19/2011 5:03:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By glenn_r:
Subcompact Glocks aren't pocket guns, in my experience, because you can't get a firing grip on them in the pocket...you end up juggling with them to try and get them out, which fails in an "oh ship" moment.

If my only option is pocket carry, it's a J-frame. My 442 works fine out of a front pocket. Glock 27 rides on the belt. Wish I had better news for you.


I agree, I usually carry my S&W Bodyguard which is a J-frame but now I have been carrying the Glock 33 for added capacity. I have never had a problem employing the Glock from my pocket before in carry drills.
Link Posted: 4/19/2011 5:14:55 PM EDT
That loopbelt idea seems like a somewhat viable option...never really thought of having an IWB BELT lol...

That thing stays put even with a gun attatched? It looks fairly flimsy...
Link Posted: 4/19/2011 5:26:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2011 5:29:21 PM EDT by Flatulence]
Originally Posted By CeeDub:
That loopbelt idea seems like a somewhat viable option...never really thought of having an IWB BELT lol...

That thing stays put even with a gun attatched? It looks fairly flimsy...

Yep. It's less than $10. You have only that to lose in order to try it.
ETA: measure your waist w/o anything other than under pants on. Buy a belt 2" longer.

IWB all day every day with this belt. If IWB can't be risked, I use the smartcarry. The smartcarry gets used more, with the same gun, as the temps rise. If the pants won't let me use the smartcarry, then I use an ankle holster with a different gun.

Link Posted: 4/19/2011 5:27:44 PM EDT
Barami hip grip for the J-Frame perhaps?

Do your back problems prevent OWB carry as well as IWB?
Link Posted: 4/19/2011 7:09:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2011 7:11:06 PM EDT by jsucraig]
Originally Posted By Cleatus-V:
Barami hip grip for the J-Frame perhaps?

Do your back problems prevent OWB carry as well as IWB?


As I said in my OP I can wear a belt tight enough to secure my pants but when I wear a belt tight enough to secure a weapon on a OWB holster my back starts to hurt after about 15 minutes. If I loosen it up to where it doesn't hurt as much and my weapon (Kimber Ultra CDP II and S&W M&P357c) sags away from my body causing it to print terribly. By the way I use a 1 3/4 Galco Nylon reinforced Instructor style belt.
Link Posted: 4/19/2011 8:14:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2011 8:35:19 PM EDT by TexasRifleman]
Get the non-reinforced version of your belt, it will flex more, but it will also bend easier to the shape of your back.

And something along the lines of this : http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Belt-Pad,90,1384.htm might help. But for a pants belt, not a duty belt.

ETA:
My thought is making the belt easier on your back. Padding or softer belt.

Maybe something like this?
http://shellbacktactical.com/tacticalstickybeltbyshirtlock.aspx
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 5:22:44 AM EDT
You might want to try appendix carry of the small glock. I don't have to wear my belt as tight with appendix carry as IWB at 3:30-4:00.
You also could wear suspenders to hold your pants up and then the belt would only hold the gun and not need to be as tight.
Link Posted: 4/20/2011 7:00:17 AM EDT
Even for "pocket pistols", pocket drawing is still the slowest and most cumbersome.
How about going back to IWB and go with a clip on? If your pants are sized right and your build will allow it you could probably get away with not wearing a belt. I dont always have to.

Id suggest something like a crossbreed or Kholster.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:24:11 PM EDT
Yesterday I tried carrying my Kimber Ultra CDP II in my N82 Tactical (IWB) Holster with no belt. It didn't hurt my back that bad but it made my pants sag. I used to have a set of suspenders that I will try if I can find them.

Today I tried carrying my Kimber Ultra CDP II in my N82 Tactical (IWB) Holster with a 'double thick' non reinforced 1 3/4 Leather belt only tight enough to hold up my pants. After about an hour I had bad back pain with sharp shooting pains down my Right leg and that horrible burning sensation from my back through my right hip all the way down to my toes.

Looks like I'll have to do some more R&D in the carry department. Maybe while I'm looking for those suspenders I'll look through the closets tomorrow to see what kind of over shirts that I can use with a shoulder holster.

Thanks guys for all of the options.
Link Posted: 4/22/2011 2:47:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JSG:
You also could wear suspenders to hold your pants up and then the belt would only hold the gun and not need to be as tight.



+1
I would suggest something like the Perry Suspenders that actually hook onto your belt. They aren't the usual style that hook or clip onto your pants. This would allow you to secure your holster to your belt, and keep your belt "pants tight" and use the suspenders to hold up your weapon and distribute the load to your shoulders. You could always wear the suspenders under your overshirt and they wont be visible if you are worried about your fashion.
Link Posted: 4/22/2011 2:30:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2011 3:02:54 PM EDT by jsucraig]
Originally Posted By aprosody:
Originally Posted By JSG:
You also could wear suspenders to hold your pants up and then the belt would only hold the gun and not need to be as tight.



+1
I would suggest something like the Perry Suspenders that actually hook onto your belt. They aren't the usual style that hook or clip onto your pants. This would allow you to secure your holster to your belt, and keep your belt "pants tight" and use the suspenders to hold up your weapon and distribute the load to your shoulders. You could always wear the suspenders under your overshirt and they wont be visible if you are worried about your fashion.


I found my Perry Suspenders in the bottom of one of my bedside table drawers. I went out tonight just long enough to get a bite to eat at mine and the wife's favorite local Italian Place, it's an every Friday Night thing. I was wearing a 5.11 Tactical Professional Short Sleeve Polo(un-tucked), with a 'wife beater' underneath, Sperry Suspenders(under the Polo Shirt), and a loose fitting pair of blue jeans with my Kimber Ultra CDP II in my N82 Tactical IWB holster, and two 8 round KimPro TacMags in a Fobus paddle holster, using a cheap Wal-Mart leatherette belt just tight enough to hold tension on the carry rig. I could barely feel anything was there. It also felt like my weapon was not held tight enough to my body so I was constantly adjusting my clothes like it was my first day concealed carrying. I don't know if it was just the different feeling or not but I felt as though my weapon was printing badly, Every time I would check it in a mirror it looked concealed enough for me. I usually wear a size 38 waist pant but since the epidural and nerve block that I had done in late March I have been wearing everything in size 40 and have just started being able to wear a belt again since the procedure. All in all the short time I was out and seated most of the time my back hurt no more or less than usual when not carrying a weapon. This maybe the answer to my question. I'll have to try this method again when I am out longer.
Thanks for reminding me about the suspenders guys.

Edit to help jsteele
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 9:58:18 AM EDT
I was thinking about you the other day and your issue, and I have a suggestion. Have you tried AIWB? You might be hurting your back when you carry IWB because your arching your back to better hid the pistol. With AIWB you stand up straighter or even lean forward, which is often more comfortable.
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 6:28:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2011 6:29:42 PM EDT by Badfish25]
Originally Posted By jsucraig:
Originally Posted By glenn_r:
Subcompact Glocks aren't pocket guns, in my experience, because you can't get a firing grip on them in the pocket...you end up juggling with them to try and get them out, which fails in an "oh ship" moment.

If my only option is pocket carry, it's a J-frame. My 442 works fine out of a front pocket. Glock 27 rides on the belt. Wish I had better news for you.


I agree, I usually carry my S&W Bodyguard which is a J-frame but now I have been carrying the Glock 33 for added capacity. I have never had a problem employing the Glock from my pocket before in carry drills.


Sounds like you answered your own question. If you have practice this before, the only two things that were different were the gloves and the stress.

I am becoming more of a fan of pocket carry as I can get a grip on my Kahr PM9 while its inside the pocket, and be ready to draw if the situation turns from orange to red.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 7:27:15 AM EDT
How about some type of elastic belly band?
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 9:51:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jsucraig:
Originally Posted By aprosody:
Originally Posted By JSG:
You also could wear suspenders to hold your pants up and then the belt would only hold the gun and not need to be as tight.



+1
I would suggest something like the Perry Suspenders that actually hook onto your belt. They aren't the usual style that hook or clip onto your pants. This would allow you to secure your holster to your belt, and keep your belt "pants tight" and use the suspenders to hold up your weapon and distribute the load to your shoulders. You could always wear the suspenders under your overshirt and they wont be visible if you are worried about your fashion.


I found my Perry Suspenders in the bottom of one of my bedside table drawers. I went out tonight just long enough to get a bite to eat at mine and the wife's favorite local Italian Place, it's an every Friday Night thing. I was wearing a 5.11 Tactical Professional Short Sleeve Polo(un-tucked), with a 'wife beater' underneath, Sperry Suspenders(under the Polo Shirt), and a loose fitting pair of blue jeans with my Kimber Ultra CDP II in my N82 Tactical IWB holster, and two 8 round KimPro TacMags in a Fobus paddle holster, using a cheap Wal-Mart leatherette belt just tight enough to hold tension on the carry rig. I could barely feel anything was there. It also felt like my weapon was not held tight enough to my body so I was constantly adjusting my clothes like it was my first day concealed carrying. I don't know if it was just the different feeling or not but I felt as though my weapon was printing badly, Every time I would check it in a mirror it looked concealed enough for me. I usually wear a size 38 waist pant but since the epidural and nerve block that I had done in late March I have been wearing everything in size 40 and have just started being able to wear a belt again since the procedure. All in all the short time I was out and seated most of the time my back hurt no more or less than usual when not carrying a weapon. This maybe the answer to my question. I'll have to try this method again when I am out longer.
Thanks for reminding me about the suspenders guys.


I started using the Perry supenders awhile back and love em'.
My typical setup is a Colt Lwt. Commander or Defender using a pancake or belt slide OWB, carried on a Beltman 1 1/2" belt. I have a Mitch Rosen combo light/mag pouch on my offside. The perry suspenders are now an integral part of my carry system.
I'm considering going with a Wilderness instructor belt. Hopefully the bit of adjustment available with the velcro will help me dial in just the right fit.
A good gunbelt keeps everything upright even without being cinched down.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 10:36:16 AM EDT
Just a novel thought....how about seeing a doctor about your sciatica? If you are a candidate, epidural steroid injections work wonders. If not, I can tell you from personal experience, back surgery is not nearly as bad as many people make it out to be.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 2:59:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jtsteele:
Just a novel thought....how about seeing a doctor about your sciatica? If you are a candidate, epidural steroid injections work wonders. If not, I can tell you from personal experience, back surgery is not nearly as bad as many people make it out to be.


Reading comprehension is not your strong suit or is it too much trouble to read at least all of the yellow posts before you begin judging people. In a post slightly above yours, I'll go back and Highlight it for you, I stated that I had an Epidural Steroid Injection and Nerve block in late March at my Local VA Regional Medical Facility. The 24th to be exact. My back problems are a Service Connected Disability to which I receive a small Compensation for(20% $243.00). I recently lost my job because of this condition and I believe I was not hired at two other jobs because of it. The injections did hardly any to no good. I have an appointment to go back to the Pain clinic on May 10th. Due to having to wait months between doctors visits I came to the hive to get opinions on alternate carry. Thank You.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 8:38:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2011 8:41:17 PM EDT by jtsteele]
I actually comprehend very well, but I grow increasingly weary of run-on sentences with poor punctuation. In order to maintain my sanity and to keep my eyes from bleeding, I sometimes skip over sentences which employ tortuously specious grammar. Sorry I missed that information in the quagmire you consider a paragraph above.

I stand by my previous recommendation: fix your back, not your carry. Or you can ignore your back until you can't stand or sit, but are bed-bound. Then you only have to draw from under the pillow or nightstand.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 10:29:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ex_dsmr:
Even for "pocket pistols", pocket drawing is still the slowest and most cumbersome.
How about going back to IWB and go with a clip on? If your pants are sized right and your build will allow it you could probably get away with not wearing a belt. I dont always have to.

Id suggest something like a crossbreed or Kholster.

What I was going to say!


The Hybrid holsters mentioned REALLY spread out the weight of the gun, and the way the leather molds to your body (especially the larger Kholster) it takes some of the weight off the belt.

The Kholster is MUCH more adjustable than the crossbreed. With a deep ride depth, the belt would not have to be as tight to keep the gun from flopping over/ out.
Link Posted: 4/25/2011 8:27:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2011 11:26:04 AM EDT by jsucraig]
Originally Posted By jtsteele:
I actually comprehend very well, but I grow increasingly weary of run-on sentences with poor punctuation. In order to maintain my sanity and to keep my eyes from bleeding, I sometimes skip over sentences which employ tortuously specious grammar. Sorry I missed that information in the quagmire you consider a paragraph above.

I stand by my previous recommendation: fix your back, not your carry. Or you can ignore your back until you can't stand or sit, but are bed-bound. Then you only have to draw from under the pillow or nightstand.


Edited: You're not worth it. You're posting in the forums and not contributing any help. That's not how this sight works. If you just want to talk smack go back to General Discussion.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 3:03:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jsucraig:
Originally Posted By aprosody:
Originally Posted By JSG:
You also could wear suspenders to hold your pants up and then the belt would only hold the gun and not need to be as tight.



+1
I would suggest something like the Perry Suspenders that actually hook onto your belt. They aren't the usual style that hook or clip onto your pants. This would allow you to secure your holster to your belt, and keep your belt "pants tight" and use the suspenders to hold up your weapon and distribute the load to your shoulders. You could always wear the suspenders under your overshirt and they wont be visible if you are worried about your fashion.


I found my Perry Suspenders in the bottom of one of my bedside table drawers. I went out tonight just long enough to get a bite to eat at mine and the wife's favorite local Italian Place, it's an every Friday Night thing. I was wearing a 5.11 Tactical Professional Short Sleeve Polo(un-tucked), with a 'wife beater' underneath, Sperry Suspenders(under the Polo Shirt), and a loose fitting pair of blue jeans with my Kimber Ultra CDP II in my N82 Tactical IWB holster, and two 8 round KimPro TacMags in a Fobus paddle holster, using a cheap Wal-Mart leatherette belt just tight enough to hold tension on the carry rig. I could barely feel anything was there. It also felt like my weapon was not held tight enough to my body so I was constantly adjusting my clothes like it was my first day concealed carrying. I don't know if it was just the different feeling or not but I felt as though my weapon was printing badly, Every time I would check it in a mirror it looked concealed enough for me. I usually wear a size 38 waist pant but since the epidural and nerve block that I had done in late March I have been wearing everything in size 40 and have just started being able to wear a belt again since the procedure. All in all the short time I was out and seated most of the time my back hurt no more or less than usual when not carrying a weapon. This maybe the answer to my question. I'll have to try this method again when I am out longer.
Thanks for reminding me about the suspenders guys.

Edit to help jsteele



Well, I am glad it somewhat got you pointed in the right direction. You might have to start the process over again of swapping around your carry rig to figure out what combination works best for your situation. Hopefully you still have some old stuff laying around and don't have to spend a fortune, since it sounds like you are only collecting your disability right now. Good luck getting it all figured out!
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 6:49:56 AM EDT
Saturday I tried carrying my M&P 357C in the same set up as my Kimber except using a Comp-Tac M-TAC IWB holster. I hurt like hell after the long drive, about 60 Miles, from my house to the in-laws. That was probably just the seat in the car. It usually hurts after that any way. I stopped by the local gun shop to peruse their seldom changing inventory. After I had been there about an hour I had to cut my visit short because I was starting to limp from the burning down my right leg.

Maybe I can IWB carry the Kimber but the width of the M&P is too much. I don't know. I will have to do more research. I think that I may try OWB or open carry, which is legal here in VA, next.

Thanks to all that have contributed and I appreciate your help.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 6:59:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Badfish25:
Originally Posted By jsucraig:
Originally Posted By glenn_r:
Subcompact Glocks aren't pocket guns, in my experience, because you can't get a firing grip on them in the pocket...you end up juggling with them to try and get them out, which fails in an "oh ship" moment.

If my only option is pocket carry, it's a J-frame. My 442 works fine out of a front pocket. Glock 27 rides on the belt. Wish I had better news for you.


I agree, I usually carry my S&W Bodyguard which is a J-frame but now I have been carrying the Glock 33 for added capacity. I have never had a problem employing the Glock from my pocket before in carry drills.


Sounds like you answered your own question. If you have practice this before, the only two things that were different were the gloves and the stress.

I am becoming more of a fan of pocket carry as I can get a grip on my Kahr PM9 while its inside the pocket, and be ready to draw if the situation turns from orange to red.


I am a fan of pocket carry for my back-up for this reason as well. I like being able to walk around with my hand in my pocket on the grip of my J-frame Bodygaurd 38 for just that situation. As far as being the primary carry I am not sure if I am completely confident in being able to reach into the pocket, acquire a good grip, and employ the weapon in a timely manner. That being said I pocket carried my back-up before and plan on continuing to pocket carry, as a back-up, even after I get my back straightened out. No pun intended.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:03:21 PM EDT
I have a very different experience with pocket carry than some of the other posters. It is by far the most comfortable for me. I carry a G26 in a Galco Horsehide pocket holster. I can get a full grip while it is still in the pocket, and it is a much faster draw for me because I usually have my hands in my pocket anyway unless I am carrying something. When I have practiced it seems to be about the same to reach in and draw from the pocket as it is for me to clear my shirt and draw from IWB. I have never had the holster come out with the gun either. For reference, I usually wear cargo shorts when I carry this way.

I am not very flexible (something I am working on) so reaching with my support hand to clear my shirt is akward for me.
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