Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
User Panel

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:58:31 PM EDT
My 21st birthday is coming up soon, which means I'll legally be able to own my first handgun!

I've been doing research on this for a long time and I've kind of dwindled down my choices to a select few. Right now the two primary ones are the SIG P226 in .357 SIG and the Springfield Armory MC Operator 1911 in .45. Both of them obviously have trade offs in certain areas.

I plan on concealed carry, taking it to ranges, and using it for the defense of myself and others if it's ever necessary. Accuracy is incredibly important to me, beyond round count but I'm not sure of what can be done with an Operator in regards to accuracy compared to the P226. I can't test either of these two guns out before I buy them, no range is going to be renting out thousand dollar 1911s, so any personal experience or advice in general is very much appreciated.

And yes I fully understand that these are full-size pistols, and that concealed carry will be difficult. I am also open to any other suggestions in regards to pistol choices, but I don't think I'd like Glocks for instance based on what I've seen.

Thank you in advance for any advice that is given, I don't know how well this thread will be taken. Take care!
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:36:48 PM EDT
[#1]
MC Op would be a good choice. The 1911 is gonna be thinner than the Sig and should be more comfortable to carry too.

Accuracy should be at very least, on par with the Sig too.

Just my two pennies worth.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:44:03 PM EDT
[#2]
So first off, congrats on getting your first handgun.  Also, I have rented a 1k 1911 at a range before and shot it, no biggie.    In fact, a range near me rents several guns worth way more than a thousand bucks.  

Of those two, I'd take the Springer 1911.  Easier to conceal, as many of us do.  But prepare yourself for people to scream "GET A GLOCK" at you.  Nothing against Sig, but my personal tastes would push me towards a 1911.  As I said though, I dunno where you live, but do try to find a range that rents them.  Even renting a GI 1911 or a 1911 from another company, just to get the general feel for it.  Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:54:14 PM EDT
[#3]
I've rented a P228 and a really plain GI 1911. The 1911 had this, bite to the trigger, it hurt my fingers after I shot it for a while. Not sure if that would happen with the Operator or not. Also, the grip safety was really picky and I kind of had to squeeze the grip to get it to work. No jams though! The P228... I had TONS of jams, probably about 20-25 in total with a box of 50 rounds. Lots of failures to feed, a few failures to fire.

I'm hoping the P226, especially a new one, would be better than the horrid experience the P228 was. The 1911..well, I can't aim that well yet, but it felt like it belonged. I also feel like I'd get more of that feeling with a P226 over a P228, but still.

So a few questions,

1911; would the trigger kind of bite, cut at your fingers with an Operator? I was told by someone that the trigger was serrated, are the higher end models serrated? Are all 1911 grip safeties that picky?

SIG P226; were the jamming issues with the P228 just because it was a rental gun potentially treated badly, and a new P226 would perform a lot better? Although..I've heard lots of bad things about new SIGs, supposedly the quality control has diminished severely.

Also, how accurate are these two? I would imagine the 1911 would be more accurate if you can handle the .45 recoil, but..yeah.

Thank you for the replies!
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:59:47 PM EDT
[#4]
another vote for the 1911.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 9:09:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Cost and availability of ammo, gives the .45 1911 an advantage over the Sig.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 9:12:39 PM EDT
[#6]
The P226 doesn't have to be in .357 SIG, that's just personal preference due to the specs/utility of such a round.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 9:30:03 PM EDT
[#7]
HK P2000 in 357Sig

or

HK P2000SK(subkompact) in 357Sig

or

HK USPC in 357Sig(rare)



I have the USPC in 40 and plan to add the 357Sig barrel to her when they are available .
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 9:33:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Someone likes H&K.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 9:49:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Glock 34 or 17 in 9mm.



Something that you can afford to shoot a lot of.



Stuff it with good HPs for defense and shoot Winchester white box from Wally World for training and IDPA/



The .357sig and the .45 are comparatively expensive to shoot.



If you are a leftie, why not the S&W M&P in 9mm or .40?



Other options:  The XD in 9mm or .40
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 9:36:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
The P226 doesn't have to be in .357 SIG, that's just personal preference due to the specs/utility of such a round.


There's not as much utility in a less common, more expensive round when you can't afford to shoot it as much whether it cost or availability. 9mm is a very potent pistol round these days as fair as pistol rounds go. The lines have balanced out alot and 9mm has great capacity, is more affordable and common. Just because you rented a P228 that had problems, doesn't mean it's a bad design. It's as reliable as the P226 which I've owned myself, but like any firearm requires care. There's no knowing how dirty that pistol was, what lubrication it had if any, how old the recoil and magazine springs were and what type of mags it was running. Magazines for one with auto pistols are hand and hand with there reliability. Bad mags makes for an unreliable gun. Alot of the the time it's best to only trust factory.

If you're going to carry this pistol, than you'd be better off going with a compact. Fullsizes like the P226 are concealable, but harder to conceal. I CCW my Beretta fullsizes and most people find them to be hard to CCW. The P226 is very very close in size. I recommend you give the P228 another chance (P229 if you buy a NIB current model) and learn more about proper maintenance even though the rental gun was out of your hands.

Link Posted: 10/31/2009 11:08:36 PM EDT
[#11]
OP:

both of your options are great options and i would have no qualms owning either one of them and i believe either will serve you well in your requirements

the only aspect i would consider is the ammo: i would reconsider the .357sig, if only for cost/availability/comonality of the round––i would instead opt for .40sw or 9mm

obvriously, test fire before you buy

good luck
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 11:10:11 PM EDT
[#12]
I guess it would be wise to get something with cheaper ammunition at first so I can train more with it, and if I really want .357 SIG I can get it later.

By the way, me wanting the .357 wasn't just because of the larger stopping power, it was because it goes out further with accuracy due to it being a faster cartridge. I'm not cartridge biased or anything. I really do appreciate the advice though. Thank you all.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 11:32:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Stick with 9mm, .40, or .45.  for your first firearm.  The .357 Sig just isn't that common or easy to find.   Heck, the shops around here are more likely to have 10mm than .357 Sig.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:34:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
OP:

both of your options are great options and i would have no qualms owning either one of them and i believe either will serve you well in your requirements

the only aspect i would consider is the ammo: i would reconsider the .357sig, if only for cost/availability/comonality of the round––i would instead opt for .40sw or 9mm

obvriously, test fire before you buy

good luck


+1
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:38:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Ill echo what others have said, both pistols can serve you well. However, I would reconsider 357sig. A few more years and the only way you will be able to shoot it is by reloading it yourself (IMHO).
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:21:05 AM EDT
[#16]
If you decide on the Sig I would suggest getting a .40 conversion barrel. That will allow your time at the range to be less expensive.(and probably more frequent) I bought a P229R in .40 and then found a brand new .357 barrel for it on the EE for $100 shipped. The new 9mm Barsto barrel I picked up at sigforum.com for $185. If money is no object, forget what I just said and get what you want and shoot away.

Good Luck.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:57:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
The P226 doesn't have to be in .357 SIG, that's just personal preference due to the specs/utility of such a round.


The cost to benefit ratio of a .357 Sig over a 9mm NATO does not justify the increased expense in ammo, as well as increased wear and tear on the gun itself (if you shoot it much).

I'd go 9mm, skip the muzzle flash show and go for center mass hits!  

As for CCW, I've done both the 226 and a 1911... either will serve you well- I suggest you get the one you can get the best deal on.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 5:49:19 AM EDT
[#18]
I have helped numerous first time handgun buyers select their first handgun.
I do not advocaye a 1911 type handgun nor do I recommend any Glock handgun for a first time buyer.
The potential and incidence of accidental/negligent discharges are simply too high when these hanguns are used by inexperienced shooters.

I agree with other posters that you should choose a caliber that is effective and affordable to shoot, choosing a caliber based on the machismo factor is never a good idea for the first time buyer and the cost of ammunition coupled with the difficulties in learning to shoot well with a pistol in a caliber that many find difficult to control effectively preclude the idea of suggesting the .45acp or the .357 Sig calibers.

Begin with a 9mm instead, the ammo is still affordable and available everywhere, the cartridge is accurate, and the handling qualities are much better for a new shooter.

Since you wish to concealed carry, have a handgun that is inherently safe, reliable, and easy to operate as well as own a pistol that will not disappoint on the target range and you have a budget that allows you to spend upwards of one thousand dollars on your purchase, my suggestion is for you to take a very hard look at some of the 9mm compact offerings from Heckler and Koch.

USP full size and compact handguns have an excellent reputation among those that own and shoot them.
There are very, very. few dissatisfied owners of these handguns and I think the vast majority of complaints one may read on the internet are posted by folks who have never actually owned a USP much less fired any great number of rounds through one.

Another indicator of my suggestion is how often a handgun is returned for trade or repairs, H&K handguns very rarely come back and when they do, it is generally because the owner is upgrading to another H&K handgun due to improved/advanced features or caliber.

There is but one drawback in my eyes concerning the H&K handguns and that is the cost of spare magazines.
I advocate that the owner of any semi automatic weapon have a MINIMUM of five magazines on hand.
H&Ks come with two and three spares will set you back close to another two hundred bucks.
The good news is that while H&K Compact handguns are not cheap by any means, they are priced well below the one thousand dollar threshold and purchasing the spares will still leave you money for a good supply of ammunition.

Another plus is target or tritium sights or sights featuring a combination of both can be easily fitted to the H&K compact handguns.
Not so big a deal because many if not most handguns offer this bonus, but it will be appreciated should you decide to personalize your handgun with non standard sights.

Anyway, if you have the bucks, the Heckler and Koch handguns are excellent pistols, for beginners and experienced shooters alike. HTH
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 9:34:14 AM EDT
[#19]
I think you need to put your ideas and preconceived notions aside and do alot of testing/renting of some guns/platforms.  even spend some time at other ranges to fire as many different types as possible.   btw, most guns out shoot the shooter.  

if you go  to any range, dont get it in your head that if you rent a ABC gun and it fails or has multiple malfunctions that ALL ABC guns will do the same.  you have no idea on what mainenance/PM was done or not done on the rental guns.  the idea is to try and see how they fit your hands and how you are able to opertate them.   If you do get malfunctions, let them know so they can try and do somethign about it.

afa caliber goes, do some homework and look at ammo prices in your area.  that may get your attention as to what caliber you will want to buy.  If its too expensive to buy/practice with, you wont be doing your part and will most likely be looking for some converison kit or some other way to practice/shoot cheaply or back here asking what type of 22LR gun to get to practice with.

also, if you have any shooting friends, i would be asking to try their guns too.  be nice and buy the ammo too.





Link Posted: 11/1/2009 11:10:49 AM EDT
[#20]
Thank you again for the detailed replies, I don't have any problem going with 9MM really as long as whatever pistol firing it is accurate. On a side note, can these compact/subcompact polymer pistols handle +P rounds?

And me choosing the .45 and .357 didn't have anything to do with testosterone haha, but I value your post greatly still. I guess I still have more research to do. How difficult would it be really to conceal a P226 to begin with, without wearing a coat 24/7? Does anyone have concealed carry tips for these larger firearms?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 11:36:24 AM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 11:42:14 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Thank you again for the detailed replies, I don't have any problem going with 9MM really as long as whatever pistol firing it is accurate. On a side note, can these compact/subcompact polymer pistols handle +P rounds?

And me choosing the .45 and .357 didn't have anything to do with testosterone haha, but I value your post greatly still. I guess I still have more research to do. How difficult would it be really to conceal a P226 to begin with, without wearing a coat 24/7? Does anyone have concealed carry tips for these larger firearms?


There's only so much different in frames from a fullsize of one manufacturer's pistol to their compact. Mostly it's length in forward barrel, slide, frame and grip. If your going to shoot alot of +P than move up your recoil spring to a higher lb weight to help protect the frame from extra wear.

Concealing pistols has alot to do with ones body shape from what I've found, the clothes they choose, how they rest on the body and what holster the person chooses. IWB's generally conceal much better concealing the forward part of the pistol and pull the pistol in closer to the body to print less from what I've found. I find them a bit uncomfortable, but many here use them as I do.

I use a BlackHawk leather IWB for carrying my 92FS/M9 at times and use a Gould & Goodrich OWB with my belt going through the loops and around the outside of the holster turning it into a IWB more often. In winter a good coat definitely provides more freedom of choice in shirts I wear as the coat now does the concealing. In summer though, I have to wear tshirt loose over the pistol, with a loose fitting unbuttoned, button shirt of stiffer material to conceal it well enough, but I can still carry it. I'm about to go out right now and have it on with a leather 2 mag pouch on my weakside.




Link Posted: 11/1/2009 12:01:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quality Holster and a Quality Gun Belt

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-4/989537/CustomNM001.jpg


+1  to above.  
Everything but the smallest, lightest, low capacity 9mm pocket pistol will be hard to conceal and be uncomfortable in a cheap holster and regular belt.

A quality rig will make even a full size disappear and be comfortable.
Don't skimp on this, it's the #1 rookie CCW mistake.

I'm 5' 7" 140lbs and have carried Full size, CCO ( 4 1/4" barrel W/ Officer's frame), Officer's and Micro 1911s.
The frame is the hardest part to conceal, unless you are a big boy, stick with the shorter grips or get a bobtail.

My personal favorite is the CCO size. Easy to hide and carry, plus fast shooting and reliable.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 12:38:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The P226 doesn't have to be in .357 SIG, that's just personal preference due to the specs/utility of such a round.


The cost to benefit ratio of a .357 Sig over a 9mm NATO does not justify the increased expense in ammo, as well as increased wear and tear on the gun itself (if you shoot it much).

I'd go 9mm, skip the muzzle flash show and go for center mass hits!  

As for CCW, I've done both the 226 and a 1911... either will serve you well- I suggest you get the one you can get the best deal on.


My experience is the same, and I couldn't agree more with everything said here.   My suggestion would be a G19 for price, reliability, capacity, and size, but if you've shot both and those are the two you've found that work the best for you, either would be a good choice.   They're almost polar opposites though, funny that you've narrowed it down to those two.

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:36:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quality Holster and a Quality Gun Belt

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-4/989537/CustomNM001.jpg


+1  to above.  
Everything but the smallest, lightest, low capacity 9mm pocket pistol will be hard to conceal and be uncomfortable in a cheap holster and regular belt.

A quality rig will make even a full size disappear and be comfortable.
Don't skimp on this, it's the #1 rookie CCW mistake.

I'm 5' 7" 140lbs and have carried Full size, CCO ( 4 1/4" barrel W/ Officer's frame), Officer's and Micro 1911s.
The frame is the hardest part to conceal, unless you are a big boy, stick with the shorter grips or get a bobtail.

My personal favorite is the CCO size. Easy to hide and carry, plus fast shooting and reliable.


+1. I also find that having the weapon at a cant and concealing against the flat of your back will help tremendously in concealing it. I can carry most any handgun in loose pants/shorts and moderately loose (just not tight, let's say) shirts, as long as it lies along the flat of my back, and it is usually at a forward cant.

If it is uncomfortable, you can always trade your setup later on for a smaller one, as there is always someone wanting something else, and someone that has what you want (you might have to be patient, though).

Good luck on your decision. Either a 1911 or a Sig 226 will be excellent.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:10:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:

There is but one drawback in my eyes concerning the H&K handguns and that is the cost of spare magazines.
I advocate that the owner of any semi automatic weapon have a MINIMUM of five magazines on hand.
H&Ks come with two and three spares will set you back close to another two hundred bucks.
The good news is that while H&K Compact handguns are not cheap by any means, they are priced well below the one thousand dollar threshold and purchasing the spares will still leave you money for a good supply of ammunition.

Anyway, if you have the bucks, the Heckler and Koch handguns are excellent pistols, for beginners and experienced shooters alike. HTH


I'd say 3 magazines in 9mm would be more around the $110 range. You could get used and save a little more. Or you could get low cap (10rd) and get 5 for about $100. You could also get the low cap mags in .40 and they will work as hi-cap 9mm magazines. I have not had a single failure as a result of using .40 mags for my 9mm, nor have I heard of anyone having problems doing so. However, I still only use 9mm designated mags for carrying to be better safe than sorry (though, as far as I can tell they look identical and may actually be. I might head over to the HK forum and ask that, cuz now I'm wondering.)
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:09:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Really don't know what to do now, I went from finally dwindling down to 2 choices to having almost 10.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:25:19 PM EDT
[#28]
You need to start off with a .22 if you havent really shot handguns before.

If you start off with a large centerfire pistol you will likely develop very bad habits such as flinching
and anticipating recoil.

Go buy a Ruger Mark II or III or whatever they call them now and PRACTICE your marksmanship skills
before you do anything else. It will save you alot of trouble and frustration.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:39:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Really don't know what to do now, I went from finally dwindling down to 2 choices to having almost 10.


It might help if you work it down into features you like or want.

Do you want a thumb safety?

Do you want second strike capability?

Do you want it to be light and thin?

Do you want high capacity?

What's your budget?

Do you want DAO?

Do you want to carry cocked and locked?

etc, etc.

Questions like that will take out some options and guide you towards what to look at, but don't knock too many out. Concentrate on the features that are really important to you. You may want a safety and be able to reach the mag release with your thumb, but you might not find a gun with both. Or you might find both, but it doesn't have something else you want. There will always be compromises, so find the important ones if you can.

Most important is finding a gun that fits your hand and shoots well for you. Some will just fit your hand better and have a natural point or a trigger that you like or controls that you can reach. You may be able to cut out some options just by picking them up, others may be cut when you fire them. If you have friends that shoot, go out and try them all. If you have rental ranges with a good selection try out some of the ones you think you'll like after cutting them down by features and feel. Maybe even try to set up a shoot in your state's hometown forum here on arfcom.

A gun doesn't have to be perfect for you either, as you will get better with practice. You may like one because it fits in your hand right and reachable controls, but you shoot a little to the left. While another gun you shoot better, but the controls are unreachable. With practice you'll learn the grip and trigger to put your shots on target, not left. Or if it's about controls, is there a way around it and would you rather work around it? Such as, if you can't reach the slide release with your thumb you can rack the slide instead. Can't reach the mag release with your thumb, use the middle finger of your strong hand. That's another thing that can be perfected with practice and won't necessarily be perfect right away.

Accuracy and reliability will be similar among the top brands. Once you knock it down to a few options visiting forums specific to that brand or pistol will reveal the possible problems that exist and whether there is a solution available.

I think once you look at what features you absolutely must have and a few likes, then go handle some, then shoot some you'll be able to knock it down to 3-4. After shooting you could maybe even find one that just speaks to you. After you have the choices, write down the pros and cons and consider which aspects are most important, unlivable, or solvable. Then visit some of forums specific to that gun and spend a few days looking around and asking questions.

There's a few you should definitely look at if you want a quality firearm to carry (in no specific order)...

Springfield Armory XD, Smith & Wesson M&P, Glock, HK USP, HK P30 (or HK45 if still considering 45), and the various SIGs. I'm not an expert in handguns, but those are the ones that are popular and standard in the world of handguns and carry. I don't mean to offend anyone by separating this list, but I just don't know enough about these others to comment, but some others are the various 1911s, Beretta 92, CZ-75, etc. Some others can come along and comment on other worthy options.

The above guns come in fullsize and compact usually and may offer different variants. Such as the M&P can now be had with or without a safety, or the HK USP can be had in more than 10 variants such as DAO, DA/SA, or a LEM trigger (similar to SIG DAK, Glock or M&P, in that it's light and the same pull all the way through), etc. Just go look and handle all of those guns and you might something you like or knock one out if you don't like it.

You could list some of the features you might like here and we can point out some that may include them. And/or come back after you've handled some and we can point out some features and pros and cons you might not know about or point you into the direction of similar guns. I know, I know, you don't want more options. But if you come back saying you liked the feel of the P30 due to adjustable ergonomics, then we might say now go check out other ergonomically modern guns like the M&P or SIG P250. Or if you check out the above and settle mostly on a 1911, then come back and ask about all the 1911s.

Don't forget to ask the dealer some questions and about possible variants when you find some you like. If you handle a gun in one variant that has a heavy trigger, you might wrongfully take that gun out of consideration even though there are lighter triggers available.

How's that for confusing you and making your choices even more difficult? Maybe I did, but you have an idea of some good guns and a bit of a plan on how to start dwindling your options.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:42:57 PM EDT
[#30]
When we each turned 21, one friend bought a well used P226 and I bought an old Sistema 1911A1 ( that full size 1911 I CCWed )
I still have that 1911 and the last time I saw him 3 years ago, he still had the 226.

Go with your first gut instinct.
Get either the 226 in 9mm or the 1911.
Head back to the store, put each one in your hand, pick a spot on the wall, close your eyes and point the pistol at that spot.
Whichever one is closest to being point of aim without being muzzle down is the one you should buy.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:47:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
/snip


Great post.  And +1.

To the OP, get picky.  The vast number of subtly different options in the handgun market ALLOW you to be picky.  Buy only what you want.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 9:17:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
You need to start off with a .22 if you havent really shot handguns before.

If you start off with a large centerfire pistol you will likely develop very bad habits such as flinching
and anticipating recoil.

Go buy a Ruger Mark II or III or whatever they call them now and PRACTICE your marksmanship skills
before you do anything else. It will save you alot of trouble and frustration.



Sorry, but that's straight up bullshit. People don't develop the same and have the same lack of backbone. If he wants a defensive carry pistol, it would be a mistake not to buy it. Training for anyone is good and he should get some, but to wait to buy a real pistol and spend the money on a .22LR first is plain silly. Depending on what he buys, he could still buy a .22LR conversion which is a nice plus to have around to practice while shooting the cheaper .22LR ammo.

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 11:19:32 PM EDT
[#33]
I've shot 50 rounds of .40 S&W, and .50 rounds of .45 ACP. I have a little bit of experience, but I'm no expert marksman by any means. I got a bit better with the P228 in.40 Smith by the end of my shooting though. Probably would have been better with the 1911 in .45 too if the trigger hadn't been messing up my finger.

In a way I've been made to feel crazy/criminal for wanting to conceal carry, or even open carry by my mom and, well, society in general. Any advice for getting over this? I'm sure there's at least someone out there who had people make them feel crazy for such things. I fully support the second amendment, and I know that people that think gun carriers are crazy, are often crazy themselves. It's just been kind of drilled into my brain for years.

In regards to what I want though, I want something with a manual safety definitely for my first pistol. One of the reasons I like the 1911 because while it's single action, it has a lot of logical safety imbued in it. I've also used a DA/SA P228, it was alright. If possible for that extra level of safety I'd like a DA/SA P226, or P229 (if I go the SIG path) with a manual safety. I've seen a few pistols that have a safety that also acts as a decocker. I like those, I want to have a decocker too. I'd just like to know that there is no way the pistol's going to accidentally discharge, and yes I follow the keep your fingers off the trigger principle.

I don't mind the recoil of the .45, although it does have a bit of a punch, I know it's something I could get used to, at least in a full-sized pistol like the 1911. I'm not sure if the recoil is substantially increased in compact polymer pistols, I think that it would be increased at least a little due to the shorter barrel and lower weight. The .40 S&W had a bit of punch too at first but it felt kind of smooth after a while, although there is a "fire per 4 second" rule on the range I go to so I never got to see how well I could control either. I really dislike that rule, I might talk to the people about it. It's really unrealistic to try to train for anything...real, with that kind of rule.

Quoted:

Do you want a thumb safety? Safety placement may not matter to me much as long as it's reasonable, and actually safe.

Do you want second strike capability? If you mean being able to hit in quicker succession than a DAO, yes. If that isn't what you mean then sorry, I don't understand exactly what you mean; unless you mean opposed to an actual single shot weapon.

Do you want it to be light and thin? These don't matter to me much as long as the weight is good for something and the pistol is still reliably/efficiently concealable.

Do you want high capacity? That depends, with some pistols over time as I've learned and become more accurate I wouldn't need 13-20 rounds. That's something I've been debating with myself over and is probably part of why TurnTwo found it funny I narrowed it down to a P226 and 1911 .

What's your budget? I plan on trying to pay for it myself when the time comes, so that depends. If I have the money to spend on a gun at the time, which I probably won't, but if I did and this pistol when properly maintained was going to serve me through life unless I choose to replace it, I wouldn't mind spending up to about $1000.

Do you want DAO? Probably not, from what I know the the long trigger pull makes accuracy more difficult and makes the gun more shaky as you pull the trigger. Maybe this could be phased out with training, but I wouldn't know.

Do you want to carry cocked and locked? If I can do so safely, yes. I would be fine with having to rack the rail though, maybe.



Honestly I don't know what to do, I keep finding new things now. I understand what you say Bullet, about going with my instincts on the P226 or the 1911, but I keep wondering if either of those are the right choice for me. I keep seeing things like the P2000, the USP, the XDm, other pistols that I had previously said "No." to, and I start to think of even more questions. I had also previously been interested in a USP compact, long ago. Jack Bauer used it and I was like cool! That isn't what's important though. Has a lot of variations though, lots of pistols have variations that might somehow fit me.

Thank you again for all of your help, I appreciate it all. It's really a rare sight to see a forum, like, actually help someone instead of putting on the troll mask and causing problems. Often on forums I'm the only one that I see trying to help people, this is refreshing in a way. And special thanks to SGB for posting here as I remember him previously telling me about the MC Operator when I asked. Haha, take care.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:35:28 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You need to start off with a .22 if you havent really shot handguns before.

If you start off with a large centerfire pistol you will likely develop very bad habits such as flinching
and anticipating recoil.

Go buy a Ruger Mark II or III or whatever they call them now and PRACTICE your marksmanship skills
before you do anything else. It will save you alot of trouble and frustration.



Sorry, but that's straight up bullshit. People don't develop the same and have the same lack of backbone. If he wants a defensive carry pistol, it would be a mistake not to buy it. Training for anyone is good and he should get some, but to wait to buy a real pistol and spend the money on a .22LR first is plain silly. Depending on what he buys, he could still buy a .22LR conversion which is a nice plus to have around to practice while shooting the cheaper .22LR ammo.



You need to calm down a bit. But I do agree with you. For practicing correct form, he can simply buy some snap caps and dry fire his defensive weapon to death. Learning the trigger of your own self defense weapon is preferable to learning the trigger on a mkIII, then having to learn your defensive handgun's trigger later, anyway. Just dry-fire.

And OP, just go with what you originally had planned, unless something else really strikes your fancy. You might end up trading or selling at a loss a few times. I did. Now I've settled on an M&P 9, but who knows, I may trade that someday if I get too annoyed with concealing it. Don't worry too much about it. You've got lots of time to find the right weapon. Go with what you like best.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:50:18 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You need to start off with a .22 if you havent really shot handguns before.

If you start off with a large centerfire pistol you will likely develop very bad habits such as flinching
and anticipating recoil.

Go buy a Ruger Mark II or III or whatever they call them now and PRACTICE your marksmanship skills
before you do anything else. It will save you alot of trouble and frustration.



Sorry, but that's straight up bullshit. People don't develop the same and have the same lack of backbone. If he wants a defensive carry pistol, it would be a mistake not to buy it. Training for anyone is good and he should get some, but to wait to buy a real pistol and spend the money on a .22LR first is plain silly. Depending on what he buys, he could still buy a .22LR conversion which is a nice plus to have around to practice while shooting the cheaper .22LR ammo.



You need to calm down a bit. But I do agree with you. For practicing correct form, he can simply buy some snap caps and dry fire his defensive weapon to death. Learning the trigger of your own self defense weapon is preferable to learning the trigger on a mkIII, then having to learn your defensive handgun's trigger later, anyway. Just dry-fire.

And OP, just go with what you originally had planned, unless something else really strikes your fancy. You might end up trading or selling at a loss a few times. I did. Now I've settled on an M&P 9, but who knows, I may trade that someday if I get too annoyed with concealing it. Don't worry too much about it. You've got lots of time to find the right weapon. Go with what you like best.



It was late last night when I posted that and I was tired. No personal offense meant to the1919man, but I get a bit pissed off with the outlook some people have that a first gun needs to be a .22LR when the person in question is looking for a defensive weapon. Now more than ever in my opinion people should be getting what defensive weapons they need.


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:05:12 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You need to start off with a .22 if you havent really shot handguns before.

If you start off with a large centerfire pistol you will likely develop very bad habits such as flinching
and anticipating recoil.

Go buy a Ruger Mark II or III or whatever they call them now and PRACTICE your marksmanship skills
before you do anything else. It will save you alot of trouble and frustration.



Sorry, but that's straight up bullshit. People don't develop the same and have the same lack of backbone. If he wants a defensive carry pistol, it would be a mistake not to buy it. Training for anyone is good and he should get some, but to wait to buy a real pistol and spend the money on a .22LR first is plain silly. Depending on what he buys, he could still buy a .22LR conversion which is a nice plus to have around to practice while shooting the cheaper .22LR ammo.



You need to calm down a bit. But I do agree with you. For practicing correct form, he can simply buy some snap caps and dry fire his defensive weapon to death. Learning the trigger of your own self defense weapon is preferable to learning the trigger on a mkIII, then having to learn your defensive handgun's trigger later, anyway. Just dry-fire.

And OP, just go with what you originally had planned, unless something else really strikes your fancy. You might end up trading or selling at a loss a few times. I did. Now I've settled on an M&P 9, but who knows, I may trade that someday if I get too annoyed with concealing it. Don't worry too much about it. You've got lots of time to find the right weapon. Go with what you like best.



It was late last night when I posted that and I was tired. No personal offense meant to the1919man, but I get a bit pissed off with the outlook some people have that a first gun needs to be a .22LR when the person in question is looking for a defensive weapon. Now more than ever in my opinion people should be getting what defensive weapons they need.




Indeed. Practice with the gear you're gonna use.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:14:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Key assumption.... this won't be the last gun you purchase, only the first.

For your first gun, get a weapon you can learn with, but can still provide basic protection.  I agree with the previous posters who recommend something in 9mm.  For the first year or two, you want to spend more money on ammo than gun.  

Get a Beretta 92FS..  possibly used.  It's a great gun to learn with.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:15:24 AM EDT
[#38]
In a way I've been made to feel crazy/criminal for wanting to conceal carry, or even open carry by my mom and, well, society in general. Any advice for getting over this? I'm sure there's at least someone out there who had people make them feel crazy for such things. I fully support the second amendment, and I know that people that think gun carriers are crazy, are often crazy themselves. It's just been kind of drilled into my brain for years.

In regards to what I want though, I want something with a manual safety definitely for my first pistol. One of the reasons I like the 1911 because while it's single action, it has a lot of logical safety imbued in it. I've also used a DA/SA P228, it was alright. If possible for that extra level of safety I'd like a DA/SA P226, or P229 (if I go the SIG path) with a manual safety. I've seen a few pistols that have a safety that also acts as a decocker. I like those, I want to have a decocker too. I'd just like to know that there is no way the pistol's going to accidentally discharge, and yes I follow the keep your fingers off the trigger principle.
 


Understand, pity and ignore them. Some people like to brush off the reality of how dangerous this world can be with the "it won't happen to me" attitude and have been trained well by the liberal media to think that guns are just evil regardless of who's hands there in. Believing that there only meant to kill regardless of whether anyone is saved and it's a bad person killed. We commonly refer to these people as sheep. I have some family the same way to a point.

If you want something with a manual safety there are some excellent options out there. Don't let people make your choice for you in telling you not to buy a pistol with one if you want it. Many here only think about what they like and works for them without a thought about the individual their recommending to. You should take a look at and see if you like the H&K's, Beretta 92FS and PX4 series, Ruger's, Smith&Wesson's and F&N's. It's nothing but training yourself to flick the safety off as you draw. Repetition will eventually become natural and you won't even think about it anymore.

I've been shooting decades, am prior military and have carried for years. I prefer manual safety pistols for various reasons. An inactive trigger is safer and one safety I prefer since I commonly just slide my pistols with no holster into the pants I've got on around the house when answering the door for example. I also know I'll be passing my firearms down to people with less experience than me in time. I'd also arm them when the shit hits the fan. At times I put my pistols outside of a holster where there always the chance to get knocked, fall or caught up. There  are reasons the military still sticked to safeties and reasons why most accidental discharges seem to be with non-manual safetied pistols.

BerettaUSA

If you did decide you wanted a PX4 or 92FS, than you've also got the option to add on a CX4 later on that runs the same ammo and magazines. There a very reliable, very accurate and fun to shoot carbine that's got fully ambidextrous controls and weighs about 6lbs.




CX4Storm.com

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:44:01 PM EDT
[#39]
I've looked at some Berettas recently too. I've heard a lot of bad stories about them though, including the military M9 version. Really bad things like slides failing, other lesser things. Are these made up? There was a poll for armed forces members and about half of them said they disliked their M9, but I don't remember where I saw that.

Do SIGs EVER have a manual safety? The very first pistol I wanted more than likely was the USP Compact because I saw Jack Bauer using it, and it looked cool. It turns out that beyond that, now, variant 1 of the USP series seem to have everything I want function-wise. If there are any SIG P226, or SIG P229s with a manual safety though.. I would like to see about those. I doubt there are though. Can you ever get a HK P2000 with a manual safety? Do current five-sevens?

I really want to have a manual safety, hopefully a decocker, although that isn't necessary depending on other safety features present (like on the 1911). Thank you again!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 2:47:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
In regards to what I want though, I want something with a manual safety definitely for my first pistol. One of the reasons I like the 1911 because while it's single action, it has a lot of logical safety imbued in it. I've also used a DA/SA P228, it was alright. If possible for that extra level of safety I'd like a DA/SA P226, or P229 (if I go the SIG path) with a manual safety. I've seen a few pistols that have a safety that also acts as a decocker. I like those, I want to have a decocker too. I'd just like to know that there is no way the pistol's going to accidentally discharge, and yes I follow the keep your fingers off the trigger principle.

I don't mind the recoil of the .45, although it does have a bit of a punch, I know it's something I could get used to, at least in a full-sized pistol like the 1911. I'm not sure if the recoil is substantially increased in compact polymer pistols, I think that it would be increased at least a little due to the shorter barrel and lower weight. The .40 S&W had a bit of punch too at first but it felt kind of smooth after a while, although there is a "fire per 4 second" rule on the range I go to so I never got to see how well I could control either. I really dislike that rule, I might talk to the people about it. It's really unrealistic to try to train for anything...real, with that kind of rule.

Quoted:

Do you want a thumb safety? Safety placement may not matter to me much as long as it's reasonable, and actually safe.

Do you want second strike capability? If you mean being able to hit in quicker succession than a DAO, yes. If that isn't what you mean then sorry, I don't understand exactly what you mean; unless you mean opposed to an actual single shot weapon.

Do you want it to be light and thin? These don't matter to me much as long as the weight is good for something and the pistol is still reliably/efficiently concealable.

Do you want high capacity? That depends, with some pistols over time as I've learned and become more accurate I wouldn't need 13-20 rounds. That's something I've been debating with myself over and is probably part of why TurnTwo found it funny I narrowed it down to a P226 and 1911 .

What's your budget? I plan on trying to pay for it myself when the time comes, so that depends. If I have the money to spend on a gun at the time, which I probably won't, but if I did and this pistol when properly maintained was going to serve me through life unless I choose to replace it, I wouldn't mind spending up to about $1000.

Do you want DAO? Probably not, from what I know the the long trigger pull makes accuracy more difficult and makes the gun more shaky as you pull the trigger. Maybe this could be phased out with training, but I wouldn't know.

Do you want to carry cocked and locked? If I can do so safely, yes. I would be fine with having to rack the rail though, maybe.



Honestly I don't know what to do, I keep finding new things now. I understand what you say Bullet, about going with my instincts on the P226 or the 1911, but I keep wondering if either of those are the right choice for me. I keep seeing things like the P2000, the USP, the XDm, other pistols that I had previously said "No." to, and I start to think of even more questions. I had also previously been interested in a USP compact, long ago. Jack Bauer used it and I was like cool! That isn't what's important though. Has a lot of variations though, lots of pistols have variations that might somehow fit me.


I really meant those questions as examples for you to think about features you might like and asking your own questions, but answering them does help.

If you truly want a manual safety, then I don't think the SIGs you've mentioned are in the running. I'm not up on all of the SIGs, because there's just too many of them, but from what I remember when I was looking at them the only ones with a safety were their 1911 and the P220 SAO (in .45). I looked at the 226 and I see no safety except on the X-5 which is an expensive marksman gun, not exactly a carry piece. If I'm wrong about SIGs safety availability hopefully someone will chime in soon enough.

The SIGs do have decockers though. The only guns that I know of that have both a decocker and a safety are the HK USP, Beretta 92, and I think the CZ-75 does as well. Those are the ones I know, but I'm sure there are others (perhaps the ones Lympago mentions above). I'm not sure if the P220 SAO has a decocker in addition to the safety. You don't particularly need both, but having both gives you options. You can carry your gun cocked and locked or as a DA/SA, or for extra safety DA/SA and locked, but that's not really necessary. Note that by carrying DA/SA you will need to practice two triggers and the transition. It's absolutely possible, but something to consider.

Modern pistols generally don't accidentally discharge, though they may negligently discharge (user error).

Finding somewhere to shoot at a faster pace is a good thing, especially when you own one and need to practice. For now to get an idea of how well you handle the recoil, see how easy and fast it is to reacquire the sights on target after you fire. Speed will improve with practice and can be achieved with any caliber, though it is easiest with 9mm, not to mention 9mm is cheaper and allows for more practice.

As for the q's...

Thumb safety is the standard manual safety. There are guns with slide safeties, but thumb safety is standard and is pretty much what you want.

Second strike capability means the gun can strike a round twice without needing to re-cocked. A Glock does not have second strike capability because it's a pseudo DAO pistol. If a round fails to fire, the slide must be cycled to re-cock the striker, which by doing so would eject the round. SAO weapons do not have second strike capability; because once the hammer drops it needs to be re-cocked. You'll get second strike capability in DAO and DA/SA weapons. It's a nice feature, but not absolutely necessary. If a round fails to fire, possibly due to hard primers, a second pull of the trigger may successfully strike it. If in a defense situation it might be better to cycle the round no matter what, just to clear possible failures instead of going for a try at a second strike. At the same time, continually pulling the trigger might be your instinct in a stressful situation and that second strike could work.

Being accurate may lower your need for more rounds, but having more rounds is still more rounds to be accurate with. It's just something to consider when choosing a caliber.

Any pistol recommended here to someone willing to spend $1000 is going to outlive you, so yes with proper maintenance it will last a lifetime. You could spend $500 and get a pistol that will last you a lifetime. But if $1000 is all you're willing to spend it knocks out some possibilities of modding your 1911 (I think, I'm not familiar with 1911s much). Take into consideration any possible accessories or add-ons such as night sights, holster, carry belt, extra mags, etc. Ammo will be bought for life, but if you can't afford much having 9mm is cheaper, or even a .22 conversion barrel if available for you gun.

Of course you can carry safely cocked and locked with any quality pistol designed to do so. Follow the rules and know your weapon. By, "I would be fine with having to rack the rail though, maybe." do you mean to chamber a round? Because nearly all pistols whether they have a safety or not are carried with a round in the chamber. It's true that you wouldn't want to if you were carrying in your pants without a holster, but otherwise carrying with a round in the chamber is safe. Some still refuse to carry this way, but you won't get much support here if you admit that. I understand the idea though, because I thought the same thing when getting my first pistol. As you get more comfortable with guns, you'll see it's safe to carry chambered.

So try to think of the features you want and go handle some of these guns. If a safety is truly important to you, which is not a bad thing and was part of my decision for first pistol too, then you should look at some of the ones mentioned by Lympago above. Even some of the striker fired pistols that traditionally don't have thumb safeties now do, such as the M&P, XD, and even Glocks can have safeties added. Many of those don't need safeties, but are now being offered so they should stay in your options if they feel or shoot right for you. They don't require decockers though as the only way they can be cocked is by cycling the slide. The HK P30 should have a version with safety available the first quarter of 2010. And of course there are 1911s and the HK USP (which has decocker as well).
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 3:03:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
I've looked at some Berettas recently too. I've heard a lot of bad stories about them though, including the military M9 version. Really bad things like slides failing, other lesser things. Are these made up? There was a poll for armed forces members and about half of them said they disliked their M9, but I don't remember where I saw that.

Do SIGs EVER have a manual safety? The very first pistol I wanted more than likely was the USP Compact because I saw Jack Bauer using it, and it looked cool. It turns out that beyond that, now, variant 1 of the USP series seem to have everything I want function-wise. If there are any SIG P226, or SIG P229s with a manual safety though.. I would like to see about those. I doubt there are though. Can you ever get a HK P2000 with a manual safety? Do current five-sevens?

I really want to have a manual safety, hopefully a decocker, although that isn't necessary depending on other safety features present (like on the 1911). Thank you again!



The Beretta 92FS/M9 is one of the best made, most accurate pistols in the world. They've been around for a long time for good reason. Personally being former military I've learned that Joe's in general (soldiers) aren't the best people to listen to depending on what kind of soldier they are. The military is made up of a huge amount of people and many people in this world are morons. Don't think the military only has intelligent, honest people join their ranks.

Many Joe's had problems with some CMI mags the military issued where the finish was causing problems with feeding and have forever written the pistol off. As I said, in an auto pistol, mags are very important to reliable function. Not everyone, soldiers included properly care for their weapons. Soldiers in particular often get more training how to clean weapons than properly lubricate them and military weapons are some of the most abused around. If you want to base an outlook on the M9's off of a soldiers outlook than talk to an older soldier, preferably tabbed as they'll be more experienced and more intelligent. You'll find many people who'll says it's bad simply because they don't like it. Many don't like it for the safety alone.

If you'd like to read more on the Beretta's and get more opinions from owners, here is another good place to go. I've personally never had one single FTF or FTE with either of my Beretta's or any I've ever run. Just like any auto pistol, use good mags, make sure the springs are in good shape, properly lubricate it (I use Tetra grease) and they can be extremely reliable.

BerettaForum



No Sig isn't great for manual safeties, but you will find the P226's grip and size very similar to the 92FS. It's one reason I bought a P226 myself. They do make the X-Five P226 with a frame safety, but it's a big gun.


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 3:32:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I've looked at some Berettas recently too. I've heard a lot of bad stories about them though, including the military M9 version. Really bad things like slides failing, other lesser things. Are these made up? There was a poll for armed forces members and about half of them said they disliked their M9, but I don't remember where I saw that.

Do SIGs EVER have a manual safety? The very first pistol I wanted more than likely was the USP Compact because I saw Jack Bauer using it, and it looked cool. It turns out that beyond that, now, variant 1 of the USP series seem to have everything I want function-wise. If there are any SIG P226, or SIG P229s with a manual safety though.. I would like to see about those. I doubt there are though. Can you ever get a HK P2000 with a manual safety? Do current five-sevens?

I really want to have a manual safety, hopefully a decocker, although that isn't necessary depending on other safety features present (like on the 1911). Thank you again!


Someone else can comment on Beretta 92 and PX4, but I wouldn't compare them to the military M9 in terms of quality without looking into it. If for no other reason than that the M9 is bought and kept by the military which has to buy so many that they look for low cost. I believe there was a problem with the M9 barrel or chamber and though Beretta fixed the issue, the military instead just bought the lowest bidders replacement parts. Edit: And because it took me awhile to type this, you already have some info above from Lympago.

Like I said above, there's only a few SIGs that I know of with safeties. The 1911, the expensive competition X-5, and the P220 Carry SAO (which is only available in .45ACP).

The HK USPc variant 1 my exact pistol and the reason I made it my first. After trying out maybe 10 guns I had narrowed it down to Glock 19, some compact SIG in 9mm, and the USPc 9mm (M&Ps and XDs were not out then). I shot them each some more and found I liked things about each. The Glock was simple, reliable, cheap and I shot it well. The SIG was simple, reliable and I loved the trigger but not necessarily switching from DA/SA. If I recall correctly I liked the SIG trigger the best and in SA shot it a tad better than the others. The USP was reliable, fit my hand well and had good controls for my hand and I shot it just as well. In the end, what swayed me was the options and safety of the USP. It was my first pistol and I wanted to possibly carry it someday (do now) and I didn't know how safe it was to carry guns. I believe I asked questions or made statements on here to the effect of, "I might carry it with the safety on and no round in the chamber," or "I might carry it with safety on and hammer down." Why? Because I didn't know better, I didn't know what was safe, or what I'd be comfortable with. So I chose the USP because it had a safety and had the option to be changed. I could carry it DA/SA, I could carry it cocked and locked, I could carry it locked and uncocked, I could switch it to safety/no-decocker, I could switch it to DAO, I could switch it to the LEM trigger which would be more in line with the light trigger pulls of a Glock or M&P, but still have second strike capability. So I didn't know exactly what I wanted, but I did mostly want a safety, and if I later decided I wanted a simple Glock trigger I could just convert it to the LEM.

I do not regret my decision, it's a great gun with great accuracy and definitely reliable. I now carry cocked and locked with no fear of it being cocked or having a round in the chamber. I would feel comfortable with a Glock, M&P, XD, SIG without safeties as well, but I still prefer a safety. If I were buying a gun today I can't say it'd definitely be the one I'd end up with though. I think I would end up with an HK P30 or an S&W M&P. Those weren't around when I was shopping, but their modern ergonomic and adjustable designs do make for some great shooting and great fit. Although they don't need safeties, I think I would still get them with a safety. If it's not in my holster, then there's nothing wrong with having a safety on just for an added level of protection. My finger never goes in the trigger guard, but one more layer of safety is good with me.

The HK P2000 does not have a safety, but it's similar to the USP in feel anyway. The P30 will have safeties available early next year. The Five-Seven does have a discontinued variant with a safety, but it's not a thumb safety so I'm not sure how well it's accessible in a self defense situation. With a thumb safety you easily deactivate it as you draw. I've heard the Five-Sevens have really light recoil, but I don't know what is said about the caliber's self defense capabilities. If you want something for carry and SD it might be best to stick with the proven calibers. If I'm wrong, someone can speak out.

Oh, and if you like the M&P, XD, P30, PX4 due to the adjustability and ergonomics then I've got some bad news for you. Generation 4 Glocks are coming out (I believe early next year) and it looks like they'll be having adjustable grips as well. Not sure if they'll be changing the shape or keeping it blocky, but adjustable. So sorry about giving you yet another option, but if you don't have a gun by then it might be worth checking out. But if you try a Glock now and don't like the trigger, then there's no need to wait.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:19:33 PM EDT
[#43]



Quoted:


My 21st birthday is coming up soon, which means I'll legally be able to own my first handgun!







Unless you live in a 2'nd Amendment stripping state then this is false. There is nothing in the US Code that prohibits 18+ year-olds from owning and buying handguns from a private party. Only FFL purchases are restricted. Of course if you live in CA, NY MA, etc then never-mind since these state restrict private party sales.



As far as a handgun, I'd recommend a 9mm because you are going to be able to shoot it a lot more and Modern HPs make them just as lethal. FWIW I shoot my 22 Mosquito more that any other handgun.



 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:26:54 PM EDT
[#44]
I live in Virginia, but you can't conceal weapons in any state legally as far as I know until you're 21 and have specialized permits/training. I also need time to get money to spend on a firearm, and to decide what I want to begin with. However, my state has, over the years been turning to the dark side of politics sadly, lots of liberals have infested our state. Tomorrow, that may change. I pray it to be so, and that we finally get some politicians that do the right things in office instead of spending tax dollars on tennis courts.

I was happy when I started reading more about the Springfield XD, because among the high capacity, 5 inch barrel (if I chose that) among other things, I figured that I would be supporting a quality "Made in the USA" company. Their 1911s are made fully in the USA, but apparently their XDs are from Croatia. I don't hate other nations by any means, but I would prefer buying from here at home if you know what I mean. What do you all feel about this? And are the parts for the XD series perhaps, made here in the USA and then shipped over there due to lower labor costs?

Right now I'm kind of considering the 1911 Operator, the HK USP Compact in .40, perhaps the SIG P220 since there are versions that have a manual safety. I don't know as much about P220s though. Also still thinking about the XDm. Also somewhat considering a Beretta, I need to research the differences between the 92FS, the M9 and M9A1.

Again, I appreciate everyone's help here. Thank you, take care!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:31:00 PM EDT
[#45]
P226 is a fine choice. But not in 357 SIG. Go with 9mm.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:01:11 PM EDT
[#46]
I have USPc, it's a good gun. True you have to be 21 for a CWP in almost all states. (I believe one is 18 and Alaska doesn't even require a permit so I don't know how that's handled). But ownership is 18 in most states and Face to Face sales are OK in most; I'm pretty sure Virginia is OK with Private sales so 18 is the age for Handgun ownership there.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.7

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm



Of course you can't get a CWP till 21, but people in CA, HI, etc almost never get one ever. Whatever you get, make sure you run at least 2000 rounds through it before you carry it. Also, when I first was shopping for a handgun I required that it have a manual safety. Now being more experienced, it's not needed. Keep you finder off the trigger and the gun holstered and there will be Zero problems, Just something to consider. A Sig with a decocker would also be good since you don't have a manual safety to forget to disengage when SHTF and it's safer due to the heavy first pull.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 5:12:43 AM EDT
[#47]
Rather than a 1911, you should consider a 75 instead.  

The CZ-75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world.

Your 75 does not have to be a CZ though. CD Defense is not offering the excellent Israel Weapons Jericho 941. If you insist on a US product,  American 75s include the Bren 10, the Springfield Armory P9, the Armalite AR-24 and the Colt Z40.

For such a widely used, excellent gun design, the 75 is too often overlooked by those of us in the USA.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:17:26 AM EDT
[#48]
of the two choices, i'd say the 1911 due to more common 45acp ammo (debatable at this moment with strange ammo sales phenomena), and the thin profile conceals well.  plus 1911s are sexy.  springfield is also an excellent brand with a great reputation for customer service.
ETA
i read your OP and noticed you "didn't like glocks based on what [you]'ve seen"  what have you seen?  the funny "how a glock works" kaboom gif?  perhaps you can rent one and see how you shoot with it
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:58:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Why do kids think they are ready for NASCAR when they turn 16?

What you 'need' to get first is either this


or this




Buy one, shoot the heck out of it for a year,thus, actually LEARNING to shoot a handgun.  After that, you can sell it, get most of your cash back, buy something else.

I have plenty of handguns in pretty much every common caliber. I somewhat suck at shooting them.  But I suck MUCH less than I used to suck, because I now shoot thousands of rounds of .22 through my 'little' pistols and revolvers.


Sorry to rain on your parade, but good advice is rarely 'cool'.

Good luck.







Link Posted: 11/3/2009 12:03:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Skip the Sig and I say this as a huge Sig fan. Sig has a massive problem with quality today. Most of the pistols they make today are junk and it is very foolish to spend your money with Sig today......they flat out suck! If you are dead set on a Sig buy one older then 2002 or so.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top