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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/5/2004 7:35:38 AM EST
My wife asked me the other day when I was holstering my weapon as I was dressing to go run some errands "when do you think you would ever use your gun?".

It got me to thinking... as a private CCW carrying citizen, what would be the most LIKELY scenerios that I would encounter?

I can think of perhaps a half dozen "likely" scenerios, if any scenerios in life are every "likely".

Ive put the top 3 IMHO here... can you think of others????

1. Approached by a BG in a dark parking lot... attempted "mugging". (for a woman add possible rape)

2. Home invasion.

3. In a 7/11 (or other place of business) when an attempted robbery happens.

What type of situations can you see happening to a CCW citizen where he/she may be put into a situation?
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 7:41:44 AM EST
4. Road Rage: Some guy perceives you cut them off, etc. and you are unable to escape with your car. He gets out with a tire iron.

5. Dog attack
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 7:48:22 AM EST
car jacking always pops into my head for some reason.

just keep your eyes open and have 'situational awareness' (be aware of whats going on around you)
I do this and always find myself thinking about what I would do, where I would go for cover, and so on..
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:02:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:33:59 AM EST
I personaly dont know that I would even get involved in a 7/11 type hold up. If they are there for cash or property, unless they are actualy hurting somone most states would fry you for useing your CCW. I could see useing it in a dog attack or any situation where the perp is likely to actualy harm someone, you can just people by there inistial reaction. If a robber comes in and brandishes a HG , asks for cash or items but doesnt attempt to be violent then you are more then likely not in harms way and would probably escalate the situation if you drew down. Now if someone walked in, ran behind the counter and started assaulting a victim, then the time to use force could be judged. Is the perp armed? is he violent? Is someone really going to die if you dont step up?

Most people who do robberies are not violent. Most just say they have or brandish a weapon and demand property. If you can get out of the situation by giving them what they want and letting them leave, then you better do it. My fear is not from killing a person, but the shit storm you
WILL encounter after the person is dead. I would say that 90% of CCW holders dont understand the liability of killing someone and the financial issues you must endour if you chose this option. Even if its deemed justifiable, the civil suit alone could cost you all you own........
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:40:47 AM EST
Walking down the street when some dumb drunk asshole decides to randomly shoot a pistol off in various directions and one of those bullets manages to find you. BTDT got the scar to prove it, couldn't cary concealed at the time.
still can't carry concealed......
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:46:49 AM EST
Walking back from the ATM and someone comes up behind you and hits you in the back of the head. I know about this one.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:56:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By SGB:
Anything can happen to anyone anywhere at anytime. This I know to be true from having seen too much of it.





So true. You need to be prepared for anything at any time.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:58:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By SGB:
Anything can happen to anyone anywhere at anytime. This I know to be true from having seen too much of it.




True, and I'd rather have a weapon and not need it than to need a weapon and not have one.

I don't need a reason or an excuse to carry other than I'm alive and I want to stay that way.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:59:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By viper5194:
I personaly dont know that I would even get involved in a 7/11 type hold up. If they are there for cash or property, unless they are actualy hurting somone most states would fry you for useing your CCW. I could see useing it in a dog attack or any situation where the perp is likely to actualy harm someone, you can just people by there inistial reaction. If a robber comes in and brandishes a HG , asks for cash or items but doesnt attempt to be violent then you are more then likely not in harms way and would probably escalate the situation if you drew down. Now if someone walked in, ran behind the counter and started assaulting a victim, then the time to use force could be judged. Is the perp armed? is he violent? Is someone really going to die if you dont step up?

Most people who do robberies are not violent. Most just say they have or brandish a weapon and demand property. If you can get out of the situation by giving them what they want and letting them leave, then you better do it. My fear is not from killing a person, but the shit storm you
WILL encounter after the person is dead. I would say that 90% of CCW holders dont understand the liability of killing someone and the financial issues you must endour if you chose this option. Even if its deemed justifiable, the civil suit alone could cost you all you own........



Maybe I should have explained that one better... in a situation where the BG is just wanting to take money and leave, I say let him. Be observant and get a good description for the police.

I am more thinking you stop, walk in to buy a soda and a loaf of bread and you inadvertantly walk in on a robbery in progress and the BG decides he wants to start shooting cuz you now find yourself in his escape path.

If I am already IN the store and he comes in demanding money, there is no way im getting involved uless he starts shooting at me or innocent bystanders. THEN if its a matter of either standing there and watching the clerk get murdered or doing something about it... well I will have to make that decison at that time, but I would have a harder time sleeping at night knowing a clerk got killed while I stood there and watched than I would killing a gun waving bad guy who was bent on not leaving any witnesses.

Link Posted: 9/5/2004 4:22:16 PM EST
The only time I've thought about my weapon is when a stray dog is present. And that's only when I can't just walk away.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 5:03:01 PM EST
While hiking, you come across a meth lab down an abandoned logging road. Some guys there see you and want to have a chat.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 6:56:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2004 7:05:58 PM EST by Gunzer]
The way I understand it, use of deadly force can only be justified when your life or the lives of yours is in immediate danger. Alot of the situations listed above may not necessarily be considered directly life threatening.

If a 7/11 is being knocked over and I'm in it, I like to think my first instinct would be to remain out of the perp's line of sight or focus. Out of sight out of mind. Be observant without being observed. I would try to unholster my roscoe and keep it concealed. If a perp's gun muzzle was sweeping in my direction I imagine I would feel my life was in grave danger.

Home invaders should be shot.

An attempted mugging in a dark parking lot can be an iffy situation. Life threatening? Maybe maybe not. Also, get a Surefire and carry it with you always! They're small and more useful than you may think.

I also subscribe to the idea that if you were unfortunate enough to be involved in a defensive shooting that the legal fallout would rain down on you like fuck all. I'm a father now with major league responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is defending my family from harm via situational awareness and my CCW. I currently do not carry enough insurance to protect my property in the event of a civil suit.

The bottom line for me, I would have to be sincerely afraid for my life or the life of my family in order to drop the hammer on another person.

Gunzer
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:29:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 4:31:10 PM EST by wolffie]
My top 3 worries are

1. Home invasion.

2. Rabid animal, dog attacking me or my dog, cotton mouth or rattler... (honestly the snakes because I would love to harvest a snake skin...)

3. The accidental encounter with a "secret garden" or meth lab out in the woods...

The most likely reason I can think of to pull my gun would be to quickly put down a wounded deer that just met Mr. Bumper.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:11:38 PM EST
I think a home invasion is likely and even more so if it's known that you have a nice gun collection. In this case, they may come in shooting since they know you are armed or at least have guns around.
One of my ex bosses lived in Chicago in the subs and in a higher scale area. One evening they had a knock at the door and when they opened the door a bunch of armed guys burst in and demanded they hand over the drugs. It took awhile before the BG's figured out they were at the wrong house. Lucky they didn't kill the home owners as they left. I don't know about you but I never open my door with gun in hand (well maybe middle of the night).
As someone else mentioned, road rage is also very likely.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:26:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:08:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By heathen:
I think a home invasion is likely and even more so if it's known that you have a nice gun collection. In this case, they may come in shooting since they know you are armed or at least have guns around.
One of my ex bosses lived in Chicago in the subs and in a higher scale area. One evening they had a knock at the door and when they opened the door a bunch of armed guys burst in and demanded they hand over the drugs. It took awhile before the BG's figured out they were at the wrong house. Lucky they didn't kill the home owners as they left. I don't know about you but I never open my door with gun in hand (well maybe middle of the night).
As someone else mentioned, road rage is also very likely.



I do, I leave it tucked in my 6 o'clock strongside, shirt over the top. Thats IF I think they look normal enough for me to answer the door. If it is early in the morning, I use a 2 way intercom from somewhere in the house.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:26:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By anon23bf:
While hiking, you come across a meth lab down an abandoned logging road. Some guys there see you and want to have a chat.



OH YEAH... the old "Meth Lab In The Wood While Hiking" scenerio... forgot about that one!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:29:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Tell her that you never intend to need your life insurance either, but you still have it.



Best answer for the wife. This is what I tell mine.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:30:33 AM EST
Don't forget standing in line at bank (and of course fear for your life)
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:51:43 AM EST
I have been carrying for about 20 years. About 6 months ago this happen to me.
Short version. Red neck domestic dispute erupts at Quik Lube that I was about leave.
Cussing, spitting, fists, pepper spray. My only concern was the owners parents of the QL who are of retirement age, both were present. I didn't want one of them to get knocked down or have the door slammed on their hands. I'm not getting a chipped tooth or whatever over this kind of crap.
But then it got real interesting when the the female retrieves a 12 guage pump from the trunk
(I'm sorry, I don't remember the make). I back pedaled to my car 2 retrieve my P-12 from the console (it was hot that day, so it wasn't on me). I didn't have to drop the saftey, because she never pumped, pointed, or shouldered it at anyone. She just waved it around. The boyfriend took it away from her.

I have been glad to have something on me in other situations, but this was the first time I have ever actually slapped leather since carrying.

It was comforting...

Johnny C!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 2:27:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Johnny_C:
I have been carrying for about 20 years. About 6 months ago this happen to me.
Short version. Red neck domestic dispute erupts at Quik Lube that I was about leave.
Cussing, spitting, fists, pepper spray. My only concern was the owners parents of the QL who are of retirement age, both were present. I didn't want one of them to get knocked down or have the door slammed on their hands. I'm not getting a chipped tooth or whatever over this kind of crap.
But then it got real interesting when the the female retrieves a 12 guage pump from the trunk
(I'm sorry, I don't remember the make). I back pedaled to my car 2 retrieve my P-12 from the console (it was hot that day, so it wasn't on me). I didn't have to drop the saftey, because she never pumped, pointed, or shouldered it at anyone. She just waved it around. The boyfriend took it away from her.

I have been glad to have something on me in other situations, but this was the first time I have ever actually slapped leather since carrying.

It was comforting...

Johnny C!



Damn... Good example bro. Of course we dont know if she needed to "pump". May have been chambered. I'd say she is lucky you didnt drop here where she stood. There are those among us who would have, and been quite justified legally I would imagine.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:02:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 6:04:56 PM EST by Johnny_C]
I was talking to a cop in this same town a few years ago. He shot IPSC often in addition
to his LE training. He said that being familiar with drawing & shooting rapidly gave him the
ability to leave his gun in the holster a little longer than others which allowed more
diplomatic means to diffuse more than one situation. He & I know LE's that freak out
when a firearm is even mentioned. I have thought about what he told in context with
my QL experience. I could tell from the way she was handling the shotgun that she
was not that familiar with it, which allowed me to cover & not fire. It all happened real
fast, but I felt comfortable covering her, but also in not having to do the deed. I believe
that growing up around & shooting firearms with my brothers & under the supervision of
our father, allowed me to realize from her manner that she didn't intend to use the
shotgun. Had she racked the action, or shouldered it in a proficient manner, I know
I would have had make a split second decision. But again, although the adrenalin was
flowing ( no tunnel vision) I knew everyone, including her, were all safe.


I'm not trying to take over the thread. I just hope that this experience might help
somebody else. Great thread, Bear. I'll start looking in here (hanguns area) more often.

Be safe!

Johnny C!
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 5:56:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bear_B:

Originally Posted By anon23bf:
While hiking, you come across a meth lab down an abandoned logging road. Some guys there see you and want to have a chat.



OH YEAH... the old "Meth Lab In The Wood While Hiking" scenerio... forgot about that one!!



Ever run into one? dangerouse places they are.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 8:29:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 1:49:05 PM EST by cqb-NH]
the first time i was glad i brought my ccw (SW99 .40) is when my gf took me to her friends b-day party in boston, it stayed in the car parked outside her friends house. the b-day girls boyfriend cut this guy off and he followed us back to their place in quincy, i was sitting behind him and said, it would be good to pull up to my car, as i got out the car, the car drove past, i looked at the driver, he stopped, just as i opened the door and grabbed it, i dont know if the guy saw me take it out of the holster and raise it behind my back or not but he drove away.
of course my gf started yellin at me cause she didnt know i took with me but everyone else was pretty happy that i did.


not so much a home invasion but a burglary
getting money from an atm in an unfamilar place
goin out with my gf and her friends like to a club/bar/resturant
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 12:14:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:35:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 3:41:07 PM EST by Thepilot]
a few years ago i was out with my dad, we were walkin' out of bilo. we get into the parking lot in time to see a cargo van of some sort come to a screeching halt in front of an expedition somebody jumps out of the van and yells a few explicatives, expedition dodges and leaves the parking lot. dad and i both think "cool, fight." so we follow (at a safe distance). we lose sight of the expedition. we figure that the situation was diffused so we passed the van and came to a red light. expedition reemerges from a parking lot (had gone in there to hide). we get a good look at the driver. single small framed woman with a terrified look on her face. white van follows- at least one large male, unknown passenger. well, that crap don't fly in TN. we take off after them on the phone with the police calling back positions and turns.

long story short we follow them for about 20 minutes when the expedition gets smart and pulls into the firehall and lays on her horn. van decides not to pick this battle. we got out to talk to her, she was REALLY shaken and had no idea why they were following her (they were following her aggresively). cops never showed (average response time runs about 30 mins where i am).

needless to say i had a moral obligation to that woman after i saw that she was in distress. i have no LE training and wasn't armed at the time. the whole time we followed i was tryin' to figure out what i was gonna do when the SHTF. don't want to be in that type of situation again, and especially not unarmed.

edit- retrospectively i don't know whether following was good idea or not, but my dad and i both thought it was right at the time, and with the way it worked out, it was ok.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 5:51:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 5:51:40 PM EST by guer03]
Ken Mays that's funny. Jules from Pulp Fiction.

Ezekiel 25:17


The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish, and the tyranny of evil men.......

Albert
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:15:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By Bear_B:

Originally Posted By anon23bf:
While hiking, you come across a meth lab down an abandoned logging road. Some guys there see you and want to have a chat.



OH YEAH... the old "Meth Lab In The Wood While Hiking" scenerio... forgot about that one!!



Ever run into one? dangerouse places they are.



Last week, a friend from school asked to speak with me. He's an outdoorsman, though not a hunter. A guy who likes to hike, and walk around in the woods, things like that. Has never owned a gun. He was in Southern Alabama, walking around a piece of land that he want's to buy when he's done with school. The place is in the sticks, nothing around for miles. While he was out there, he heard a loud muffler-less vehicle pull up near his truck, stop for a few minutes, then pull away. Something about it spooked him so he decided to hop in his truck and leave. As he was headed out, he heard the vehicle again, and this time it came pulling out of the brush with a half-dozen "very pissed, white-trash looking mother-f*&#er's in the truck bed." He said he hit the gas, and put some distance between him and them before they could get on the road. Anyway, he got away because he had an eerie feeling. Not wanting to depend on eerie feelings alone, he says now he needs a gun. I was happy to show him some options.

Link Posted: 9/15/2004 2:20:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By wolffie:

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By Bear_B:

Originally Posted By anon23bf:
While hiking, you come across a meth lab down an abandoned logging road. Some guys there see you and want to have a chat.



OH YEAH... the old "Meth Lab In The Wood While Hiking" scenerio... forgot about that one!!



Ever run into one? dangerouse places they are.



Last week, a friend from school asked to speak with me. He's an outdoorsman, though not a hunter. A guy who likes to hike, and walk around in the woods, things like that. Has never owned a gun. He was in Southern Alabama, walking around a piece of land that he want's to buy when he's done with school. The place is in the sticks, nothing around for miles. While he was out there, he heard a loud muffler-less vehicle pull up near his truck, stop for a few minutes, then pull away. Something about it spooked him so he decided to hop in his truck and leave. As he was headed out, he heard the vehicle again, and this time it came pulling out of the brush with a half-dozen "very pissed, white-trash looking mother-f*&#er's in the truck bed." He said he hit the gas, and put some distance between him and them before they could get on the road. Anyway, he got away because he had an eerie feeling. Not wanting to depend on eerie feelings alone, he says now he needs a gun. I was happy to show him some options.





Gun or not...your friend did the right thing by leaving quickly. I hope he finds another piece of land elsewhere.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 3:15:54 AM EST
I can't believe no one has mentioned zombies yet.

It is the mother of CCW situations.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:20:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By 455SD:
I can't believe no one has mentioned zombies yet.

It is the mother of CCW situations.




Oh yeah... cant forget the zombies...

Walking out to your car one late night and you hear shuffling foot steps behind you... you turn around and there creeping up behind you...

BRAIN EATING ZOMBIES!! AHHHHH!!! OPEN FIRE!!!
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:51:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 6:50:19 AM EST by guer03]
1st off I live in a bad neighborhood. Having said that, one night at 3am I got a phone call. My neighbor told me that a white van with a man in it was parked next to my driveway. I grabbed my P220 loaded with Black Talons and my 4D Maglight and cracked my front door enough to see the man. He was there smoking a cig for about 20 minutes. In that time I called the police and told them what was going on and my address. I also told them I was at the door with my gun watching the guy.

Before they got there (45 minutes later) the guy got out of his van, walked in my yard and started to jump the fence between my house and my right side neighbors house which happens to be my sister. It was dark in between the houses as there is no light there. I rushed out of the house yelling LOUDLY at him to get the F off the fence on onto the ground. Spotlight in his eyes and .45 with hammer back on him the whole time. He was scared $hitless and froze. I stayed about 30ft away from him to make sure I had some distance between us.

My adrenaline was pumping and my senses seem to be more acute during this time as I was noticing EVERYTHING that was going on, him, his van, his behaviour, does he look or act high or drunk, everything. As I was yelling at him he was trying to get me to let him go but I kept up the barrage of verbal assualts hoping it would keep him aware that I was not f'n around with him and that I had no problem letting 2 fly at him if he tried anything.

My sister was in the middle of a nasty divorce and this guy said he was coming to visit my brother in law who hadn't lived there in a year. He said they were close friends. I yelled the questions like 'What were you doing in my yard jumping the fence? Why didn't you park in front of their house? Why 2 doors down and stay in your van for almost an hour? Why 3 in the morning? He had BS answers. The police finally got there (Damn it's hard to stay drawn on someone for that long) and cuffed him. He had some coke in his van and was on probation. I told him before they took him away that if I saw him again over here, in our property the coroner would be taking him away, not the cops.

Later I sat in bed reflecting on what happened and realized that I was ready and willing to take a life to protect my family. It bothered me for a little bit but I felt that I did the right thing. My Police Officer brother in law tells me that chances are I would have been justified in shooting him in that situation with all the elements there were. Undercover of night, the coke, jumping my fence and going to the dark side in between houses, I didn't know if he was armed or his intentions, parked 2 doors down. All in all I'm glad I didn't have to drop the hammer but I wouldn't hesitate to protect myself or my family. Take care.

Albert

PS - Sorry this isn't a CCW situation but at least it was a situation.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 11:39:31 AM EST
A friend of mine and his mother were driving on a fairly remote strech of highway late one night coming back from a family reunion in another state. The got behind a car going kind of slow and passede them. The then got behind another car going kind of slow (and in the middle of the road) and noticed the one they just passed had sped up behind them. The one if front continued to slow down and would not let them pass. The one behind stayed close also. On coming traffic forced the one in front to get over and my friend took the opportunity to get in the passing lane and turn on the juice (he had a trans-am or firebird or something). Anyhow he got around and out of there. Could have been bad though. Is it likely to happen to me or you? Maybe.
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