Starting to do some research regarding my next 1911 purchase. I have a Range Officer now that is my carry weapon, and I like it allot. My brother just bought a V-Bob, and I must say, that this is sexy as hell.

I want to get a high end 1911 in the near future, and am starting to look into the higher end range. I have a few specs I would like in the gun, and was wondering if you guys could give me some advice on which company would be best to go to.

A custom build is not out of the picture either, as I have a very reputable 1911 smith / builder in the area.

Features I am looking for are:
- Durable black finish
- "Ledge" style night sights, also a fan of the "straight 8" style vs the 3-dot
- 5" slide & barrel
- Full size grip with mag-well
- Slim grips
- Checkered Front-strap
- Single sided safety
- High quality Internals (tool steel etc)
- All steel (Frame & Slide)
- Plain slide (no gaudy roll-marks or engraving)
- 45 ACP, Single Stack

I don't really care for front cocking serrations, but I will admit that on some guns they do look good, so that will have to be decided on later. Also, a rail is not a make-or-brake feature. I think a rail would be nice to have, should I decide to throw on a light, but it is not a "must-have". Given the choice, I would rather take a railed frame just for the added flexibility.

Primary use of the gun will be range use. I would not feel comfortable carrying it, that's why I have the R.O. for. I know it would be okay to carry this gun, but I would rather not.

I handled a Valor the other day, and really liked the gun, more than my brother's V-Bob. There is just something about a 5" 1911 that I love. The Valor has most of the features I am looking for, with the exception of the Mag-well, which could be added aftermarket.

Budget is probably going to be around 3,000 to 3,500, but less would be good too (For example, a Valor with some minor tweaking).

So what do you guys think? Should I go with a company like Brown or Baer etc, and buy exactly what I want? Or would it be better off buying a lesser gun and tweaking a little?

If your going to spend upto 3k. buy exactly what you want.

Thanks, that is what I was thinking.

I also prefer the standard bushing-type barrel, with a regular G.I. style guide-rod, but a bull-barrel is not out of the question.

If that's your budget, I'd either go with WIlson Combat or a semi-custom from the builder close to you. Whatever you get, make sure it's exactly what you want.


I'll second the VBOB... I've got one and it's awesome!

The 3,500 is the max I want to spend, after all is said and done. That doesn't mean that is what I want to spend lol.

So of the "high end" manufacturers (Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Les Baer, Nighthawk Custom, etc), who is the best to buy from, as far as value-for-dollar, and best C.S. etc.

Thanks!

I definitely give the nod/vote to Wilson Combat + Ron Phillips, Jared Phillips (Father & Son who started Nighthawk) are back @ WC building 1911's & Victor Tibbets is there as well - all outstanding pistolsmiths. Ron built my custom CQB in 2002...here's a couple of pictures below. In terms of warranty - WC is the best in the industry...my original night sights started to go dim. I called and worked w/Matt Riker to explain my issue. Without hesitating he said ship it back - I shipped my slide back (on my dime - not a big deal)...within 1 week, I had my slide back with upgraded white dot night sights and 2 mags thrown in for my trouble and reimbursement for paying the shipping to them. OUTSTANDING in my book - I can't recommend WC enough!

I wouldn't limit myself to those three. In the grand scheme of pistol builders. $ 3500.00 will buy a lot more than your choices will sell you.

If my choices were the same old, tired. Brown, Wilson, Baer, Nighthawk or Pie.

I'd have Pie.


and sure as hell wouldn't spend 3k for something with a spray-on finish.

Give me a polished blue, hard chrome or stainless.

There's a few other finishes like black chrome or nitrade or whatever it is Glock is using on a few silver colored slides I've seen.

If I had the itch to spend 3-3.5k on a pistol it would be a WC, all day every day.

But I think in all honesty Im just going to get another SA Professional.

go with the wilson, you'll get the best service but if you don't want to save some money get the brown (4 month wait last time i checked for a brown).

+1 Wilson.....you might also consider Springfield Custom shop,their Professional 1911 is quite nice as is their TGO1,special order only guns.
Of the brands you listed,Wilsons customer service is tops...........and one of the brands the gun might not work out of the box,you'll be told to run anywhere from
500 rds thru 2500 rounds for it to be reliable,the other brands will work just fine out of the box,if you buy brand X,add an additional $300 thru $700 to price tag for reliability ammo expenditure....Beware of brand X.

I've got a Wilson, couple of Browns, a Pro, Nighthawk, Baer, RRA, Valtro and a few custom pieces in there...I'd be very hard pushed to say any one was, across the board, better than any other. Non are more accurate or reliable than any other one. Buy whichever you best like the feel/look of and be confident that you're not giving anything up other than the name on the slide.

This is my Valor after I had some work done by Reid Pistolsmithing:





It's my favorite as it's exactly what I want. It's also less expensive than my Browns and much less expensive than my Wilson.
Soon it shall be off to coal creek for ferritic nitrocarburizing...

I agree with you on the first comment.

You won't find a "better" 1911 than the Springfield Professional.  All the guns listed in this thread are great guns and will do anything you need them to do. Get what you want.

If you're looking specifically at those 4 brands, I can offer my opinion.  I've owned at least 1 pistol of each of those makers.  I currently own several Wilsons, a Baer, and a Nighthawk.

If I could get rid of the Nighthawk I would, but I built it to commemorate a special event in my life and had my name engraved on the frame, in addition to a custom serial number.  If you want a custom serial number, they are one of the few makers that can do it.  The gun didn't work right out of the box and, to make a long story short, their CS sucked and charged me for shipping both ways and for the cost of looking at the gun and shooting the gun (all to make a determination that nothing was wrong).  It's not that I was being difficult or being an ass about it or anything like that.  Just called, explained my issue, and they said I could send it in.  Now I make it my personal mission to make sure as many people know about their "policy".  I fixed the problem myself by replacing the slide stop, but the finish doesn't match now.

I got rid of the Brown because I didn't like the bobtail (I had a Kobra Carry).  In terms of looks, this pistol was/is the best.  Brown knows how to make a pretty gun.  Gun was accurate, and fairly reliable.  It had one issue with the mag catch or slide lock (I can't remember anymore - it's been a while) and had to go back.  Brown fixed the issue and refinished (bead blasted) the gun without me asking, and free of charge.  No complaints here.

Wilson is my favorite, shocking, I know.  I think performance-wise they are all about equal, but Wilson's CS is amazing.  My CQB has been a fantastic pistol and I love it more than any other.  The front sight came loose and i was in the area, so I took it there and they fixed it while I waited, plus gave me a tour and a few free mags.  I've had custom work done at their shop and always been very happy with the results.  I had an extractor break that I purchased for my Kimber and they replaced it for free even after 3k+ rounds.  If the springs on their mags start to fail they will send you new ones.  You actually get good CS for the money you pay, as opposed to Nighthawk.

My Baer is my newest.  If you want the most accurate gun you can get, get one of these with the 1.5" guarantee.  They make an inexpensive high-end gun, meaning that you get the most bang for you buck for the level of performance.  However, to do that, the small parts are cast and of lesser quality.  Fit and finish on my example is top-notch and the performance so far at ~600 rounds, with 100+ of that being JHP, has been flawless.  Mine is a blued gun, so the finish isn't the best, but Baer offers other better finishes.  Mine isn't a carry gun, so I don't care.

Perfect response. I really like the fact that you can comment on all 4 I listed.

As to pigeon-holing myself to those four, I only stated those as they are common "house-hold" names when it comes to high-end 1911's. I don't mind going to another company, or having the local guy build me a gun, I just want to make sure I get what I want.

I was also looking into possibly having a custom Valor made for me, as the only thing they would have to add is the mag-well, and the gun would be what I wanted.

I've owned Baer, Brown and Wilson.   Never been interested in a Nighthawk, though I did inspect a few of them when they first started out.   I'm not going to go into an in-depth analysis, just the high points.

Fit and finish: Brown comes in first, followed by Wilson and then Baer.    The Brown is nearly flawless with regard to toolmarks and such, while you will find some minor file and tooling marks if you take the Baers apart.    Wilson has a bit more attention to dehorning and such than Baer.   The Baers are by far the tightest with regard to barrel fit / slide racking... then Brown, then Wilson.  Not necessarily better, but just a different build philosophy.

Reliability: I've got a lot more rounds downrange out of Baers than either my Wilson or Brown, but so far I think they are all excellent.   I don't use the Baer or Brown factory mags, preferring other brands like Wilson or CMC.  The Baer follower's front likes to jump over the tube when you drop it, empty, on the deck.  Brown's huge base pad looks dumb IMO and I'd rather have the extra round.

Accuracy:  I haven't done formal testing, but I think Baer leads, followed closely by Brown, with Wilson bringing up the rear.   Not that there is much of a discernable difference to me, short of using a Ransom rest.

Customer service:  I haven't used any of them, but I always hear Wilson is best, then Baer, then Brown.  

Personal preference:  I own, currently, 3 Baers, 1 Brown, and 0 Wilsons.  

I think 1911s should be blued or hard chrome, I dislike trendy serrations or features like bobtails, and I like my guns fit tight.   I got rid of the Wilson because I was never shooting it and never could warm up to it because it looked like a painted Kimber.   Brown finally offered a model I could get behind (Centennial) with tasteful rollmarks and the features I like.  

Baers have always shot well for me and I have always liked their looks the best.  I think they offer some excellent values in the semi-custom space.  I personally wouldn't pay the premium for the SRP or some of their other, more costly models.  I also think I'd stick with the 5" guns when it comes to Baer, but then I've never been a fan of sub-5" 1911s anyway.

Springfield Custom Carry. And build it up to youe exact specs.

I would look at the Wilson Tactical Elite http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-tactical-elite.asp  for something a little different.  It is my favorite and most controllable 1911, and I own several Wilson and Brown guns.

Bought my nighthawk grp roughly 3yrs ago.. Never a single issue from it. Shoots any crap I can find out of any mag. Only thing I would change about that purchase would be to not order the laser grips, waste of money.

Just picked up my new Les Baer Custom Carry this week, and it's a hell of a gun for under $1700.  Very tight, very accurate, and ran like a sewing machine through the first 150 rds I've been able to put through it.

SA Pro ... + more mags + more ammo + more training = $3000 plus.

I've got a WC CQB full size and a Brown Special Forces Carry.

I paid about the same for each. I bought the Wilson in the summer of 2010 at my local shop. I've never had an issue with it. Ever. I was lucky enough to find it in stock.

I ordered my Brown in June 2011, and it arrived in November. I ordered it exactly like I wanted it. I was not disappointed at all. It's become my EDC gun. Obviously, zero issues since I carry it.

In both cases I can't comment on the customer service because it hasn't been needed. I will say both pistols are much tighter and run better than my "regular" guns. the fit and finish are head and shoulders above anything else I've got. I also have a Kimber Tactical. It's a nice gun, zero issues, but it's not the same quality as the Brown and Wilson.

I'm probably going to order another this coming summer, and as much as I like the Brown, I think I'm going to go for another Wilson. I like the 4" barrel that Wilson offers. I have an idea of what I want, but i like the idea that I have several models I can customize. I don't have that same option with Brown. The downside to Wilson is thier wait times. I thiink they're running at about 6-7 months on their custom work. However, I'll get exactly what I want. I think that may be the main reason for the Wilson. My CQB was bought right off the shelf, and not a "custom". I still love it, but I'll get it the way I want it next time.

I don't think you could go wrong with any of your choices listed. I can only say that if you go for a Brown or Wilson, I don't think you'll regret it.

Good luck.

Ive been able to find my Wilsons at local shops.That 6-7 month wait doesnt sound too bad,compared to the Springfield Professional i have on order,15 month wait from order date,12 months to go.
I did see two show up in Gunbroker,but at over $3000,i'll wait the 15 months......and pay $400 less......Plenty of 1911 to keep me entertained till then.......

If you have the money and are interested in a very nice quality 1911 then you should go for it.

My personal experience with Les Baer Custom was very negative starting with an unreliable Premier II and ending 8 years and $3000 later with an unreliable Premier II after 3 sends back to them.

Steer clear of LBC (I've not heard similiar horror stories of the other big names) and you should be good to go!

Good luck!

3k no question Wilson

Nighthawk Custom I have been shooting a Talon II bobtail for 5&1/2 years and a Vickers Tactical for 4 years, they both work perfectly, I also have a SA slide and frame that was built completely by Wilson Combat with ALL of their parts then Amour Tuff coated in 2002 and it has been a great pistol.

Wilson Combat

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Of the 3, Wilson. NH would be second.

If it were me, 3 RIAs, a few smithing classes, and parts to make em run like champs.

Are you talking about a Model M?

If you know EXACTLY what you want, that might be a good way to go.

Personally, I'd be worried that I would end up changing my mind after owning it a while and want to change something out.

I do like the idea of a Valor modified to fit your needs.  They are REALLY nice guns to start with.  Take a look at the parts list on them.

I think that it would be more rewarding to go that route than to have a big name builder in your safe.  But honestly,  I don't think you could lose either way.  The Baer that I shot a few weeks back looked like it went to hell and back, but shot like a brand new gun.

 

Thanks for all the replies.

I honestly think I am going to hold off for now. I just got my Springfield back from being over-hauled, and am super impressed with the gun. I think I will spend time and training with it before I drop the cash on a "big name" 1911. I know for a fact my shooting technique needs attention, as I am still a rather new shooter when it comes to handguns.

I went with the Baer simply because I believe it gives more bang for your buck.  If I was wanting to spend $3000 for a pistol, I would save up for a total hand built custom to my specs.

There isn't a whole lot in the $2500 - $3000 range that I'd really care for in the custom 1911 arena.   It's not enough to get you a really nice custom anymore, and in the semicustom space, it's overpaying IMO.