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4/22/2019 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 3/17/2013 6:07:07 PM EDT
I'd never heard of the Brazilian contract 1911s until I recently saw one for sale. I did some looking around and see slides but not complete guns. Sellers says it's one of five in the US...but of course you can't always believe the sellers. If it IS that rare, of course I imagine it'd be pretty valuable, does anyone have any real value information? Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/17/2013 6:30:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2013 6:35:29 PM EDT by Banshee35]
I can't really help you with value but a quick google search of "brazilian contract colt 1911" yields several results that say 14,500 were produced. Now how many of them made it back into the states is anybody's guess but I would bet more than five.

If the price is right I would want it just because I have a soft spot for GI Colts but I have no idea of the value. Buy the gun and not the story though.

What's he asking for it?

***EDIT***
It wouldn't be this one would it?
Link Posted: 3/17/2013 6:38:07 PM EDT
That's the one. He's in the $5,000 range expectation wise.

Link Posted: 3/17/2013 6:51:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wakko:
That's the one. He's in the $5,000 range expectation wise.



That is a $500 1911. WAYYYYYY more then 5 in the US. It's in poor condition, no collector value to speak of. Owner is FOS.
Link Posted: 3/17/2013 6:52:56 PM EDT
I did the rudimentary searches on the webs for more for sale and haven't found any at all. Haven't even found folks referencing more than just the slide.
Link Posted: 3/17/2013 7:09:36 PM EDT
It's in poor shape and the pics are designed to mask the flaws. Foreign 1911s just don't command all that much money usually, especially in poor shape. 5k is an absolute joke or someone looking to score a sucker buyer.
Link Posted: 3/17/2013 7:38:41 PM EDT
He's about a decimal point to the right off in his price, at most. Almost any surplus gun coming back from South or Central America will have significant rust issues from poor maintenance and storage.
Link Posted: 3/17/2013 10:09:33 PM EDT
I think he got hosed when he bought it from someone that told him it was rare.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 6:44:23 AM EDT
it looks like its basically a SISTEMA, which is a colt made under contract in a south american country on colt tooling. That being said, they were selling piles and heaps of SISTEMA's a few years ago for $350 all day long.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 6:50:41 AM EDT
Sure, it's the same basis as the Sistema, but Sistemas are commonly found still. I've got four of them. Can't really compare them though, it's like saying that a Singer made Colt 1911 is the same as a Colt made Colt 1911.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 6:52:51 AM EDT
Taurus 1911s are made in Brazil
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 10:22:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Taurus 1911s are made in Brazil


Along with Springfield Armory

Turns out Brazil has two major gun foundaries, Imbel and Taurus. Taurus, BTW, makes every single part of their guns in-house.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 10:34:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2013 10:45:05 AM EDT by rod727]
Looks like something Sarco would have from time to time...they pull all kinds of stuff out of S.A...Sarco......good opportunity to drool over 1911's

offer him $300......just kidding but don't get to excited its not that rare....

here is another link that might help you....Brazilian contract 1911

and moar....Brazil

The Brazilian army began purchasing 1911 and 1911A1 pistols from Colt in 1921, obtaining in excess of 16,000 of them over the next two decades. In 1942, Brazil declared war on Nazi Germany and sent the 25,000-man Forca Expedicionaria Brasileira to Italy where it fought with distinction alongside Allied forces in Italy. During this time, the U.S. army provided additional M1911A1 pistols to the Brazilian allies.

After World War II, the U.S. government supplied Brazil with machinery for producing the M1911A1 pistol which was installed at Fabrica de Itajuba (later known as IMBEL), a private firm that had been producing weapons for the Brazilian armed forces since 1934. Besides being issued, to the army, IMBEL sold pistols to a number of Latin America armies and police forces and exported them to the United States.

As did many other armies, in the 1970s the Brazilians began phasing out .45 cal. pistols and IMBEL began production of a 1911A1 pistol chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge known as the Automatico pistola M/973, which remains the standard issue handgun of the army to the present day, although supplemented with various Taurus and Beretta pistols
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 11:46:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rod727:
Looks like something Sarco would have from time to time...they pull all kinds of stuff out of S.A...Sarco......good opportunity to drool over 1911's

offer him $300......just kidding but don't get to excited its not that rare....

here is another link that might help you....Brazilian contract 1911

and moar....Brazil

The Brazilian army began purchasing 1911 and 1911A1 pistols from Colt in 1921, obtaining in excess of 16,000 of them over the next two decades. In 1942, Brazil declared war on Nazi Germany and sent the 25,000-man Forca Expedicionaria Brasileira to Italy where it fought with distinction alongside Allied forces in Italy. During this time, the U.S. army provided additional M1911A1 pistols to the Brazilian allies.

After World War II, the U.S. government supplied Brazil with machinery for producing the M1911A1 pistol which was installed at Fabrica de Itajuba (later known as IMBEL), a private firm that had been producing weapons for the Brazilian armed forces since 1934. Besides being issued, to the army, IMBEL sold pistols to a number of Latin America armies and police forces and exported them to the United States.

As did many other armies, in the 1970s the Brazilians began phasing out .45 cal. pistols and IMBEL began production of a 1911A1 pistol chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge known as the Automatico pistola M/973, which remains the standard issue handgun of the army to the present day, although supplemented with various Taurus and Beretta pistols


I'm no expert, but this is pretty much in line with what I've learned. Depending on what sources you read, there could have been as many as ~25k Brazilian-made 1911s. When they decided to go 9mm, however, they started by converting the .45's, which of course limited the number of guns in the original caliber. Quite a few (certainly more than 5) have made their way into the States, but many more came here as parts (you'll find many more crested slides than complete pistols), and of the ones that were complete, most were refinished (usually parked).
So IF you happen to be a collector, and IF you happen to collect foreign-made 1911s, and IF originality means more to you than condition, and IF this one is all original (no way to tell from the photos), then this might be one you'd want in your collection.
But if you'd pay $5k for it...I've got a whole bunch of beat-to-hell pistols I'd really like to sell you!
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:46:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By OlGunner:
Originally Posted By rod727:
Looks like something Sarco would have from time to time...they pull all kinds of stuff out of S.A...Sarco......good opportunity to drool over 1911's

offer him $300......just kidding but don't get to excited its not that rare....

here is another link that might help you....Brazilian contract 1911

and moar....Brazil

The Brazilian army began purchasing 1911 and 1911A1 pistols from Colt in 1921, obtaining in excess of 16,000 of them over the next two decades. In 1942, Brazil declared war on Nazi Germany and sent the 25,000-man Forca Expedicionaria Brasileira to Italy where it fought with distinction alongside Allied forces in Italy. During this time, the U.S. army provided additional M1911A1 pistols to the Brazilian allies.

After World War II, the U.S. government supplied Brazil with machinery for producing the M1911A1 pistol which was installed at Fabrica de Itajuba (later known as IMBEL), a private firm that had been producing weapons for the Brazilian armed forces since 1934. Besides being issued, to the army, IMBEL sold pistols to a number of Latin America armies and police forces and exported them to the United States.

As did many other armies, in the 1970s the Brazilians began phasing out .45 cal. pistols and IMBEL began production of a 1911A1 pistol chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge known as the Automatico pistola M/973, which remains the standard issue handgun of the army to the present day, although supplemented with various Taurus and Beretta pistols


I'm no expert, but this is pretty much in line with what I've learned. Depending on what sources you read, there could have been as many as ~25k Brazilian-made 1911s. When they decided to go 9mm, however, they started by converting the .45's, which of course limited the number of guns in the original caliber. Quite a few (certainly more than 5) have made their way into the States, but many more came here as parts (you'll find many more crested slides than complete pistols), and of the ones that were complete, most were refinished (usually parked).
So IF you happen to be a collector, and IF you happen to collect foreign-made 1911s, and IF originality means more to you than condition, and IF this one is all original (no way to tell from the photos), then this might be one you'd want in your collection.
But if you'd pay $5k for it...I've got a whole bunch of beat-to-hell pistols I'd really like to sell you!


The only beat to hell 1911A1 I'd be willing to pay 5K for is going to be all correct and have Singer stamped on the slide.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:08:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By OlGunner:
Originally Posted By rod727:
Looks like something Sarco would have from time to time...they pull all kinds of stuff out of S.A...Sarco......good opportunity to drool over 1911's

offer him $300......just kidding but don't get to excited its not that rare....

here is another link that might help you....Brazilian contract 1911

and moar....Brazil

The Brazilian army began purchasing 1911 and 1911A1 pistols from Colt in 1921, obtaining in excess of 16,000 of them over the next two decades. In 1942, Brazil declared war on Nazi Germany and sent the 25,000-man Forca Expedicionaria Brasileira to Italy where it fought with distinction alongside Allied forces in Italy. During this time, the U.S. army provided additional M1911A1 pistols to the Brazilian allies.

After World War II, the U.S. government supplied Brazil with machinery for producing the M1911A1 pistol which was installed at Fabrica de Itajuba (later known as IMBEL), a private firm that had been producing weapons for the Brazilian armed forces since 1934. Besides being issued, to the army, IMBEL sold pistols to a number of Latin America armies and police forces and exported them to the United States.

As did many other armies, in the 1970s the Brazilians began phasing out .45 cal. pistols and IMBEL began production of a 1911A1 pistol chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge known as the Automatico pistola M/973, which remains the standard issue handgun of the army to the present day, although supplemented with various Taurus and Beretta pistols


I'm no expert, but this is pretty much in line with what I've learned. Depending on what sources you read, there could have been as many as ~25k Brazilian-made 1911s. When they decided to go 9mm, however, they started by converting the .45's, which of course limited the number of guns in the original caliber. Quite a few (certainly more than 5) have made their way into the States, but many more came here as parts (you'll find many more crested slides than complete pistols), and of the ones that were complete, most were refinished (usually parked).
So IF you happen to be a collector, and IF you happen to collect foreign-made 1911s, and IF originality means more to you than condition, and IF this one is all original (no way to tell from the photos), then this might be one you'd want in your collection.
But if you'd pay $5k for it...I've got a whole bunch of beat-to-hell pistols I'd really like to sell you!


The only beat to hell 1911A1 I'd be willing to pay 5K for is going to be all correct and have Singer stamped on the slide.


and I don't doubt that one day you will find it....
Link Posted: 3/19/2013 9:43:40 AM EDT
There were two types of Brazilian 1911's - first the guns made by colt and shipped there, then those made by dgfm- fmap in brazil neither is super rare or worth a ton, unless you found say a 98% finish colt made version and even still that would be u see two grand in price
Link Posted: 3/19/2013 10:05:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2013 6:05:18 PM EDT by lazyengineer]
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Taurus 1911s are made in Brazil


Along with Springfield Armory

Turns out Brazil has two major gun foundaries, Imbel and Taurus. Taurus, BTW, [span style='color: red;']makes every single part of their guns in-house.


I've never put much value on that. So long as you have good quality control and vendor management, it's more cost effective for a better product to let people focus on what they are damned good at, and let them be your subcontractors. It takes a skill set and equipment to make something like a plastic molded grip panel, and a completely different skill sent and infrastructure to thread the end of a two piece guide rode (which Taurus does poorly).

Better to let a subcontractor who is a wiz and turning out precision shafts, and threading them, do that. When one guy calls in sick, the rest of the guys can fill in, because that's what they all do at that factory - turn shafts and thread them.

Hell it's the foundation of civilization - Trade. Do what you're really good at - just do that, and I'll do what I'm really good at, and just do that. We'll trade, and both be massively better for it. I don't blow my own wine glasses or make my own contact lenses either.
Link Posted: 3/19/2013 2:05:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hkusp9:
it looks like its basically a SISTEMA, which is a colt made under contract in a south american country on colt tooling. That being said, they were selling piles and heaps of SISTEMA's a few years ago for $350 all day long.


That's exactly what it is.
Link Posted: 3/19/2013 2:06:52 PM EDT
Not exactly...the rollmarks are different.
Link Posted: 3/19/2013 8:25:53 PM EDT
I've heard that Brazilian Colt contract are the finest Colt's poduced. These 1911A1 are commercial Colts with brazilian army roll mark and nice blueing finish.
We have a 1937 and 1942 contract. The pre-war 1937 are most common and the finest Colt Brazilian contract.

In the 90's and early 2000's the Brazilian Army used to auction the obsolete guns to collectors and we had the opportunity to buy these wondeful pistols as well as another guns (1918A2, Mausers, M3's, Tommy Guns, Garands, Lugers, 1919A4, FN49 and some other misc. obsolete guns). Good times!

Today in brazilian market these pistols in a good condition can worth R$3500 and in a very good condition R$6000 (brazilian Real), something about U$1.7k to 3K.
The brazilian contract Colt's are very common here among gun collectors and still very desired.

We have the IMBEL making 1911A1 pistols for Springfield Armory and Taurus. These pistols are 100% made in the house for 99% export market.
The imbel is a good choice to own a std 1911A1 pistol or full customize because they have forged frame and slide. They are a good platform to a customizing project.


Link Posted: 3/19/2013 9:28:44 PM EDT
Hey, thanks for chiming in here. Very cool to hear information from someone that's right there!
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