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Posted: 10/9/2008 8:58:47 PM EDT
Been looking at these on Lin Schryver's page for some time now. Interesting and pricey also. Never really heard about them before. Whats the deal?
schryvergunsales.com/Big%20Dog.htm

Link Posted: 10/9/2008 9:35:52 PM EDT
Looks like a custom 1911 to me.

The way he's hyping the features makes me a little suspicious though.
It sounds like the Extreme Shok ads.

I'm sure you'd get all that and more on a gun from Miller, Les Baer, Nighthawk, or Wilson.
Link Posted: 10/9/2008 9:47:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2008 10:13:11 PM EDT by puskrat]
But BIG DOG is a kewl name
sounds like a cruiser motorcycle

Hmmm...the dealer is only about 80 miles from Miller. But those frames...
Link Posted: 10/9/2008 10:54:55 PM EDT
They look nice, I wonder how they shoot.
Link Posted: 10/9/2008 10:55:53 PM EDT
Never heard of them.  They want top dollar for guns that no one is going to know anything about.

ranburr
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 8:56:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2008 9:02:15 AM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 9:01:37 AM EDT
15 lpi checkering is no joke, have fun with that.  

I like this line "Magazines:  Mags are  designed and are in use by the FBI HRT team."

Link Posted: 10/10/2008 9:21:19 AM EDT
Looks like yet another 1911 with tough sounding words in the title to make it appeal to mall ninjas.  Who cares what state police unit uses it, the spetnatz use Marakov's, I wouldn't want to carry one of those.
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 10:20:57 AM EDT
Their site (cerberus tact) is old, but if you look closely at the specially designed HRT magazines you'll see the word Metalform molded into the baseplates.

They seem oddly proud that their grips will shred your hand if you don't hold the gun properly.
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 10:37:44 AM EDT
These appear to be CNC-machined out of tool-grade "do not want."
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 11:06:04 AM EDT
That sounds like one of the biggest scams I've heard in the gun world.  I see NOTHING in that pistol that constitutes the exorbitant price tag.
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 11:12:56 AM EDT
I didn't even look at the price. The gun itself appears to be nothing special over other semi-customs, and lots of other makers don't need to resort to the "Extreme-Shock" like advertising.
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 11:30:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2008 1:34:27 PM EDT by dedfella]
EDITED for abrasive content

dedfella
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 11:49:32 AM EDT
I love the flushed take down nub without the recess.  Let's take an otherwise beautifully easy to disassemble pistol and make it difficult.  
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 11:56:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2008 1:35:22 PM EDT by ken_mays]

Originally Posted By dedfella:
edited


Ehh, I wouldn't say that.  The machine work looks well done.  The frame/slide fit seems good.  

Never heard of the barrel brand, though.  The finish is supposedly IonBond but looks remarkably like a paintjob.  The paint spatter on top of the front sight, and the abraded areas on the slide dovetail make me think it's GunKote or something.



They may well be very nice guns, but the fact that they have zero name recognition and reputation, plus the fact they are awfully spendy, yet devoid of most of what I'd want in a custom, means I'll be passing these up.
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 12:38:27 PM EDT
Let's see...

Ridiculous hype? Check.
Ridiculous price? Check.
Lack of reputation? Check.
All phots NOT cocked-and-locked? Check.

Yeah. That's totally what I'm going to go with.

Oh, and anybody else notice that the center/bottom pistol (in the posted pic) is on half-cock?
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 4:31:47 PM EDT
the grips are shredders by Larry Davidson,and while aggresive they have yet to make me bleed....unlike my ex-wife
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 4:47:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:

Originally Posted By dedfella:
in spite of the fact that I do not yet own a custom or semi custom 1911 I know what 3400$ will buy in that market and those dogs don't even appear to be of good factory grade much less full house custom as claimed


Ehh, I wouldn't say that.  The machine work looks well done.  The frame/slide fit seems good.  

Never heard of the barrel brand, though.  The finish is supposedly IonBond but looks remarkably like a paintjob.  The paint spatter on top of the front sight, and the abraded areas on the slide dovetail make me think it's GunKote or something.

schryvergunsales.com/0FBH0041.jpg

They may well be very nice guns, but the fact that they have zero name recognition and reputation, plus the fact they are awfully spendy, yet devoid of most of what I'd want in a custom, means I'll be passing these up.



mayhap I did overstate it a bit.

Link Posted: 10/10/2008 6:50:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2008 5:31:59 PM EDT by Hawgleg44]
I assisted Christopher Provost, the owner of Cerebus Tactical with a class a few weeks ago, and got to spend a very short time with his personal DOG pistol.  I will say it's a very accurate, 100% reliable, good looking 1911 package that was well executed.

I'll admit the Shredder grips aren't my thing, but that's easy to change.  

These are true custom 1911's, not some thrown together parts guns offered by some "manufacturers".  

Before I give a full, "I love it" endorsement, I'd have to spend more trigger time with it and do some accuracy testing.  But my initial recommendation is a thumbs-up.  I've had a lot of trigger time on custom 1911's built by Karl Sokol at Chestnut Mountain Sports, so I know what to look for in a good 1911 (Karl has built mostly S&W revolvers for my father and me for the past 25 years or so, but he's doing a 1911 next).  The Big DOG seems to be right up there in quality from my limited experience with it so far.  

These 1911's are built by people who are true SRT operators, not some wanna-be's.  Christopher is the real deal, and is the go-to guy if things to bad in his jurisdiction.  He know's what works, and that's what he builds.

I may be getting more trigger time on a Big DOG towards the end of the month.  If that happens, I'll post a full review here if anyone is interested in facts instead of opinions after doing nothing more than looking at a picture and ad.


Originally Posted By ken_mays:
The finish is supposedly IonBond but looks remarkably like a paintjob.  The paint spatter on top of the front sight, and the abraded areas on the slide dovetail make me think it's GunKote or something.


After seeing the Big Dog in person, I can absolutely testify that the finish is NOT some spray on "paint job".
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 7:46:04 PM EDT
I don't know gents.  I just don't get the whole $3000.00 + custom anything let alone a 1911 pistol.  Now granted I have never shot an extremely high end 1911.  The spendiest one I own is a Colt Golt Cup Trophy Match.  I just don't understand how a uber high end 1911 is any better than a regular 1911.  They both shoot the same ammo so it's not like you're getting better performance from the business end.  Its not like the high end has an indestructable finish or cleans and lubes itself.  I just don't see the point.  Now don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of if you like it or want it and you can afford it then you should get it.  I personally just don't see the point.
Link Posted: 10/10/2008 7:50:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 8:32:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2008 4:15:36 PM EDT by Trumpet]

Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
Looks like a custom 1911 to me.

The way he's hyping the features makes me a little suspicious though.
It sounds like the Extreme Shok ads.

I'm sure you'd get all that and more on a gun from Miller, Les Baer, Nighthawk, or Wilson.


+1.  They way they're marketing them, I'm surprised they don't spell it "Big Dawg" or "Big Dawgz"  

On the positive side, it does have a Stainless Steel "tube".
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 4:13:20 PM EDT
I believe for the money I'd rather have two more TRSs...................
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 8:27:32 PM EDT

     I think if I were making the choice, i'd spend over $1000 less and buy a Springfield Professional.  I know that gun is top notch, tested, and proven.  It is also more reasonably priced and if I want the grips, I could probably buy more then a few pairs with the money I saved and some extra ammo to boot.  Just my $.02.

later,
AJ
Link Posted: 10/13/2008 6:24:53 PM EDT
As the designer and builder of the Directed Operations Group pistol I'm truly amazed and the number of experts out there on my pistol considering none of you have touched it.  

The term Big was given to it by some of the members of the SPTU when you compare it in size to standard Government pistols.  YES gentlemen, it is bigger!  

Yes I did design the magazines that Metalform makes and supplies to the FBIs HRT team.  Of course I don't make them myself, that's what Metalform does every day, so I have them build them.

NO the sights are not IonBond but the pistol is.  And if you've never held one, shot one, owned a high end pistol other than a Colt, how can you honeslty tell me in your expert opinion what my pistol should cost or how much it is worth?  

Please, as someone who actually does work in Law Enforcement,works on teams, teaches and certifies SWAT, CERT, SRT and every other acronym of team out there,(State, Local, Federal) who designs and builds guns of exceptional quality using MY OWN parts, I would ask for a modicum of logic when speaking about a product you've never known or owned.

And just for a reality check.  Every pistol that you've suggested was better than the DOG was tested and FAILED.  Now this wasn't a little test.  It was a 3 year program where the pistols went through extensive testing and evaluation for a plethora of criteria.  And my pistols beat them all, which is WHY we got the contract to build the pistols for the SPTU and which is WHY they now use my new CerTac 8 magazine because it too beat out every other magazine on the market for the same reason.  

So, if you have a question as to why the pistol is the cost that it is, I'll be more than happy to explain it to you in detail.  But, if you ever get a chance to pick one up and shoot it, all of your questions will be answered immediately.  And yes, it does come in a suppressed version too.  And yes, those were old photographs.  

Any Questions, just email me.  

Link Posted: 10/13/2008 7:18:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2008 7:21:11 PM EDT by ian187]
If its good enough for St. Paul Tenants' Union its good enough for me!














Link Posted: 10/13/2008 7:22:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2008 7:24:14 PM EDT by Foxnews_FTW]
If you who you say you are, I hope not to sound like a disrespectful little punk but as this is a forum, you could knock out a whole bunch of redundant questions you might be bugged with, if you were to post the answers here.


Originally Posted By ProPistols:
As the designer and builder of the Directed Operations Group pistol I'm truly amazed and the number of experts out there on my pistol considering none of you have touched it.  
I lol'd. Nice smackdown

The term Big was given to it by some of the members of the SPTU when you compare it in size to standard Government pistols.  YES gentlemen, it is bigger!

schryvergunsales.com/0FBH0001.JPG
Unless that's not said pistol in question or isn't current (in which case disregard this), though it does appear to be a "DOG" model- that looks like it's the same size as a government model?

Yes I did design the magazines that Metalform makes and supplies to the FBIs HRT team.  Of course I don't make them myself, that's what Metalform does every day, so I have them build them.
O'rly? Unless I'm mistaken- which I may be, a family friend was on the FBI HRT, I'm going to ask him what mags he used. If we can verify metalform then it'll be +1 for you.

NO the sights are not IonBond but the pistol is.  And if you've never held one, shot one, owned a high end pistol other than a Colt, how can you honeslty tell me in your expert opinion what my pistol should cost or how much it is worth?  
A few other members here who are into the custom/semi-custom 1911's ALSO made the -face. I'm having a pistol custom built for me, with a whole boat load of options. Schuemann AET ultimatch barrel, Melonite finish, hiene night sights, heine magwell, tool steel internals, and the finest parts money can by- assembled by a smith that MANY swear by. The pistol costs about 1,000 less than yours... I'm not alone in my  "lol wut" concerning your pricetag. If you can explain it in detail here, I'll gladly eat marinated crow- as I feel your pistol does look awesome.

Please, as someone who actually does work in Law Enforcement,works on teams, teaches and certifies SWAT, CERT, SRT and every other acronym of team out there,(State, Local, Federal) who designs and builds guns of exceptional quality using MY OWN parts, I would ask for a modicum of logic when speaking about a product you've never known or owned.
They've owned similar products- and some of these guys work on teams too, it is from this that I don't believe their input on what they know about this pistol to be totally irrelevant. It is from this experience that they open their mouthes and wonder about a new comer's pistol they've never heard of until now- charging a pricetag over that which some very highly regarded smiths charge. Your pistol may be able to cure cancer, but the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it.

And just for a reality check. Almost Every pistol that you've suggested was better than the DOG was tested and FAILED.  Now this wasn't a little test.  It was a 3 year program where the pistols went through extensive testing and evaluation for a plethora of criteria.  And my pistols beat them all, which is WHY we got the contract to build the pistols for the SPTU and which is WHY they now use my new CerTac 8 magazine because it too beat out every other magazine on the market for the same reason.  
Someone mentioned miller custom, I don't think they tried him
Wilson magazines and tripp cobra mags have been known by many of the shooters here to have caused a whopping zero malfunctions in their service lifetimes... How much more zero were your mags able to get? Sorry, just playing devil's advocate here.



So, if you have a question as to why the pistol is the cost that it is, I'll be more than happy to explain it to you in detail.  But, if you ever get a chance to pick one up and shoot it, all of your questions will be answered immediately.  And yes, it does come in a suppressed version too.  And yes, those were old photographs.  
There are many great pistols at that price range, I'm sure your pistol shoots like Sarah Palin orgasms (which obviously is nothing short of scrumtrelescent)- but a lot of other high dollar pistols do too.
As for shooting the pistol, The promise of shredded hand grips and the 15lpi make me wonder as to how enjoyable it may be- but I may be alone in my of 15lpi.


Any Questions, just email me.  
I think I hit on most of the questions and comments most readers had, ansering them here would save you time The point of a forum like this is a medium by which you can reach a whole bunch of your market at one time. If you can prove the worthiness of this pistol, not only could you have a healthy amount of business stem from this- but I'll gladly eat my crow.
But as it stands, the burden of proof is on YOU the marketer- to prove to US the buyers- why your Xtreme pistol shoots better than other very high quality high dollar pistols.  


Link Posted: 10/13/2008 7:53:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Foxnews_FTW:
schryvergunsales.com/0FBH0001.JPG
Unless that's not said pistol in question or isn't current (in which case disregard this), though it does appear to be a "DOG" model- that looks like it's the same size as a government model?


This is another thing that made me go:

The pistol in this large pic is entirely different than the pistols in every other photo on the page.

It has different sights, forward cocking serrations, finer checkering (I'd guess 30lpi), Alumagrips, a different magwell, different ambi safety, different trigger, standard instead of ball cuts on the slide, an undercut trigger guard, and a non-recessed slide stop (pin).

The slides and frames on the other guns *do* appear to be extended further than a Gov't, though - but not as long as a longslide. It could just be an optical illusion due to the rail, but it wouldn't suprise me if those are sporting 5.25" or 5.5" barrels.
Link Posted: 10/13/2008 7:56:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Walkure:

Originally Posted By Foxnews_FTW:
schryvergunsales.com/0FBH0001.JPG
Unless that's not said pistol in question or isn't current (in which case disregard this), though it does appear to be a "DOG" model- that looks like it's the same size as a government model?


This is another thing that made me go:

The pistol in this large pic is entirely different than the pistols in every other photo on the page.

It has different sights, forward cocking serrations, finer checkering (I'd guess 30lpi), Alumagrips, a different magwell, different ambi safety, different trigger, standard instead of ball cuts on the slide, an undercut trigger guard, and a non-recessed slide stop (pin).

The slides and frames on the other guns *do* appear to be extended further than a Gov't, though - but not as long as a longslide. It could just be an optical illusion due to the rail, but it wouldn't suprise me if those are sporting 5.25" or 5.5" barrels.


+1
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 7:30:57 AM EDT
I'm not here to debate the quality of my firearm.  I know the designers and manufactueres of all the firearms in the testing program we were involved in and NONE of them were better than our pistol!  

So you're taking a pre-existing gun and adding parts?  So your frame is NOTHING like mine.  The point is you are not comparing apples to apples.  You're comparing All tool steel firecontrols to my firecontrols?  You don't know what is involved in my pistol so how can you compare?  

Here is my point.  The manufacturer of the firecontrol for EVERY MAJOR manufacturer of parts showed up at my shop with his wares.  He explained and showed the contracts with his clients.  He showed me the parts and explained how these parts are used in every pistol out there and how they've proved themselves time and time again.  When I asked their origin he tried to divert me away by explaining price and how much profit I could make from them.  I again asked their place of origin and manufacturer.  Finally he indicated their origin, method of manufacture and cost to me.  We concluded our business with a hearty thanks but no thanks.  THAT is one of the reasons my pistols cost more.  The fire control is made in the US, by Americans at an American wage.  

New comer.....nope.  I just don't advertise.  We've been building successfully here on the east coast for a long time.  Most people know us for our machineguns.  

Mr. Miller was not at the testing proceedure.  It may be because he was not invited, or any number of reasons I'm not privy of knowing.  I've never met the man or handled his product so I'M NOT GOING TO COMPARE MY PRODUCT TO HIS SINCE I'VE NEVER TOUCHED IT.  Gee, maybe I'm the only one who thinks that way here but it seems to be the more honest way of giving an opinion.  

It was more than what you think when it came to magazines.  I'll give you one hint: the follower.

15LPI:  Gee if my assistant Mrs. C can handle 15LPI, I'm more than sure you rough and tumble men out there can handle it.  

Have any of you handled 15LPI or are you just giving me wild speculations from your vast knowledge of the subject.  For your educational purposes.  My 15LPI is cut in such a way so that it looks like pyramids with the tops cut off.  It's abrassive without being sharp.  So, if a woman with total girly soft hands can shoot it comfortably then you can.  More importantly it was designed for a gloved hand.....or had none of you team members remembered you wear gloves when entering a methlab.  Hmm.

The point here is simple.  This was made for real entry teams, doing this for real on a daily basis.  

If you want to take a pre-existing gun and change our parts and call that a custom gun, then that is your privelidge, but a true custom gun is when the manufacturer makes his own slides, frames, barrels, bushings, firecontrols etc and just doesn't take them off the shelf and put them onto a pre-existing frame.  Thats the difference.  Fair enough?
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 7:42:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ProPistols:
NO the sights are not IonBond but the pistol is.  And if you've never held one, shot one, owned a high end pistol other than a Colt, how can you honeslty tell me in your expert opinion what my pistol should cost or how much it is worth?  


Okay, that explains why the front sight looked painted.  There isn't much else you can do with tritium sights.  Thanks for the clarification.  
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 9:29:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ProPistols:

If you want to take a pre-existing gun and change our parts and call that a custom gun, then that is your privelidge, but a true custom gun is when the manufacturer makes his own slides, frames, barrels, bushings, firecontrols etc and just doesn't take them off the shelf and put them onto a pre-existing frame.  Thats the difference.  Fair enough?


Norinco makes their own slides and frames, and fills them with their own parts. By your definition they are custom guns.

Heinie and Nastoff put parts in pre-existing frames and slides, by your definition they are not custom?
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 10:26:28 AM EDT
I'm merely distinguishing the difference between types of Custom Guns.  And yes knowing Richard, I know the quality of his work.  And yes Norinco is NOT American made with American parts with American know how.  

Just curious, what parts have you designed, brought to manufacture, sold to LE whether it be State, Local or Federal?  How many hours do you have involved and how much money of your own hard earned cash do you have invested in your projects?  

The point here being, when you've accomplished what I have, you too will have the right to get persnickity when somene looks at a PIC of your pistol and declares it over priced.  PLEASE.....show some common sense and a little courtesy to those of us who actually try to move the products forward by designing their own products.  Show some support for American Products using American labor using American Designs...or are you going to compare us to Norinco?
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 10:34:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ProPistols:

The point here being, when you've accomplished what I have, you too will have the right to get persnickity when somene looks at a PIC of your pistol and declares it over priced.  PLEASE.....show some common sense and a little courtesy to those of us who actually try to move the products forward by designing their own products.  Show some support for American Products using American labor using American Designs...or are you going to compare us to Norinco?


I suspect most reading this thread have no idea who you are, myself included. Please educate us.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 11:13:32 AM EDT
Anyone actually in "the know" would already know who I am.  

I didn't advertise my pistol.  The good Mr. Schryver did.  So I am not marketing my pistol.  

All I am asking is for someone to think logically.  I just Loved the statement "I've never owned an expensive gun"  or  it can't be worth over $3k.

Come on....the motor to my wifes 67 mustangs cost 3K to rebuild.   Judging by the number of posts some of the fine folks here have listed would indicate to me they spend more time Opining than shooting or building guns.

So lets get serious people.   Real American made guns with Real American Parts built by real American using real American steel (think about that....where do frames actually come from) cost real money.  

If you don't want to spend that kind of money, fine, but don't try to convince other people it's not worth it when you've never seen it, handled it, shot it, touched it, spoken to me about it.  That is like saying you're an expert on Ferrarri because you don't like the price tag.   Please......
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 11:46:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2008 11:55:02 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 11:54:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ProPistols:
Anyone actually in "the know" would already know who I am.  

I didn't advertise my pistol.  The good Mr. Schryver did.  So I am not marketing my pistol.  

All I am asking is for someone to think logically.  I just Loved the statement "I've never owned an expensive gun"  or  it can't be worth over $3k.

Come on....the motor to my wifes 67 mustangs cost 3K to rebuild.   Judging by the number of posts some of the fine folks here have listed would indicate to me they spend more time Opining than shooting or building guns.

So lets get serious people.   Real American made guns with Real American Parts built by real American using real American steel (think about that....where do frames actually come from) cost real money.  

If you don't want to spend that kind of money, fine, but don't try to convince other people it's not worth it when you've never seen it, handled it, shot it, touched it, spoken to me about it.  That is like saying you're an expert on Ferrarri because you don't like the price tag.   Please......


Jeez, a little arrogant about your guns


Your realize that we are all potential customers, and the tone of your response is enough to make customers think twice about your products, regardless of how fantastic you claim they are.

i suppose I'm not in "the know," is that some sort of exclusive, snob 1911 frat?
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 12:07:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2008 12:18:36 PM EDT by Foxnews_FTW]
Regardless of how long you claim to have been doing this? you're a newcomer to most here. This is the first time we've ever heard of this gun, or you the un-named operator. THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU to tell us why your pistol performs better than a $2600 Springfield pro (which keep in mind won FBI's contract, so apparently the FBI finds them to be adequate....) or any other of the guns that the enthusiasts here own and have run with 0 problems over the years. Sure, congrats the big dog pistol won a contract with a team- didn't kimber also win a contract with a SWAT team?

Obviously you're not any good at marketing, because you've commited a few  big mistakes
1) You claimed the experience of your market to be invalid.
-In the business world, this is fatal. You just called a potential customer stupid. Sure, you had to defend your product, but the BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU TO PROVE WHO YOU ARE AND WHY YOUR PRODUCT IS GOOD. You then went on to say "oh well if you're  in the know, then you know who I am". Instead of proving to us that you're a noble public defender and an honest man with a good product,  you just called us stupid again. Thanks

I guarantee you the gold cup guy has no kind words for you right now. Where as other smiths I know would have kindly said the differences between the colt and their product, and recommended that he shoots them a line for a good gun- you basically called him retarded.


2) You insulted the toughness of your customers
-the 15Lpi remark.  How can I make a judgement on that? 25lpi feels nice, many do not like 20lpi because they feel it is too abrasive, how is 15lpi combined with "xtreme shredder grips" going to feel any better? Keep in mind many of us don't wear gloves, because we don't raid meth houses- we defend ourselves and our families.

3) "We make all our own stuff, therefore it is better. It won a pistol trial!"
THE BURDEN OF PROOF, IS ON YOU TO TELL US WHY YOUR PARTS- WHAT COULD BE PROPRIETARY PARTS - ARE BETTER. One of glock's strengths and rugers weakenesses? Parts! glock parts can be had cheap and easy to find. For ruger? send it to the factory or you're shit out of luck. If I have to replace a part on my 1911, If i have to send it back to the factory for something simple like a spring- because of the custom maker's proprietary parts system? I'd be fuckin annoyed.  So if your 1911 is sooo custom as to the point of lack of interchangability? It hurts- not helps. Sure hope the gun is up to spec then!

If you had come in and said what the pistols accuracy is, how tough the parts are- how with blood sweat and tears you made this glorious pistol... In one post, a nice little history of it, I'm pretty sure by the end of it, at least I would be saving up my money for one!

Oh and just a heads up- If this pistol was made for teams, and marked as such- are all these pistols made the same way? So how custom can it be if they're alll made the same way with the same features... Isn't the idea of a custom gun- one that is totally unique?



4) In propping up your own pistol, you seemed to come out and say that the ones we have aren't any good. Blatant digs at other guns that many users like. Again, insulting your base is dumb.  Keep in mind these pistols have reputation for being very reliable, oh, and they're much less expensive. These guns are known to have 0 failures. Ever. And they cost a fraction as much.



Right now you have to tell us why your gun is great, and who you are- not insult us and tell us we don't know who you are. The "oh it's up to you to find out why my pistol is so good and then buy it" approach worked in the marketing scene of the 50's. Not anymore. You don't insult your prospective customers on a public forum that has huge exposure.

As it stands right now? Your pistol could cure cancer, but you're rubbin us the wrong way here. Personally what I think right now? I'm not high speed low-drag tacticool enough to own a Xtreme Big Dawgz wit da beamz 1911.  I guess I'm going to have to stick to with my non-custom one of a kind 1911.

My crow is getting cold, so I'm going to throw it out now.

Link Posted: 10/14/2008 12:07:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2008 12:27:42 PM EDT by vanilla_gorilla]
Hmm. I can't tell whether the maker is an arrogant guy with an inferiority complex about his guns, or a 13 year old copying and pasting this stuff.

Either way, I'll look elsewhere for a custom 1911.


Edit: If he cannot even explain why his gun is better than cheaper custom guns, then what's the incentive to buy? It sure as hell isn't for the customer relations.


So lets get serious people. Real American made guns with Real American Parts built by real American using real American steel (think about that....where do frames actually come from) cost real money.


You don't have the market cornered on that by any stretch of the imagination. I can deal with makers who won't insult me at lots of other places, though.


Edit2: Listening to this guy quickly reminds me of dealing with Jon Ciener.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 12:24:11 PM EDT
I can see ProPistols's point.

He (or they) are building guns that are obviously what they and their doorkicker, operator colleagues want.  No corners cut, etc.

He's not making any effort to market them to a larger customer base, so he doesn't feel particularly motivated to cite his bonafides to a bunch of strangers on the internet who probably won't buy one anyway.  He didn't come here to convince us how his guns kick the snot out of the competition.

Want one? Fine.  Here's how you buy it.  Don't want one? Fine.  Don't worry about it.

Just my two cents.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 12:44:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 12:58:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2008 1:04:01 PM EDT by ProPistols]
I disagree kind moderator.

 I disagree with folks claiming to be in the know telling me how my pistol is crap when they've never touched it.  That's what my beef is about.  If you have NOTHING good to say, then say NOTHING until you've actually had a chance to shoot it.  

I don't compare my products to others.  If you want to compare my product to others than buy one of mine, shoot it then you can HONESTLY compare and contract the two on a point by point basis.

Everyone has the right to have an opinion, but that doesn't mean that just because you sit there and type a lot means your opinion is correct.

If you're going to judge me, or my guns, then either take a class with me, or buy one of my guns.  But don't judge me if you've done neither.  

NO I'm not here trying to sell my products.  I'm not trying to drum up business.  The product speak for themselves.  And those we own my guns will tell you what, where, when, how and why they made the purchase to own one.  

I've merely stated the facts from my perspective.  FACTS, no suppositions, not opinions merely facts.  

Thank you for letting a manufacturer vent.

Mr. Moderator:  Please read the first posts about my product and what posters claimed it to be.  I'm merely posting the position of someone who actually cares about the products we make for people who protect the rest of this country.  YES the door kickers!  And thank GOD for us! And may GOD protect us because I still get scared everytime I do it!
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 1:03:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 1:09:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2008 2:10:13 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 1:18:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 1:33:36 PM EDT
for my part I apologize if I spoke out of school.

Perhaps my tongue in cheek critique was out of place and I am editing my earlier post.

Link Posted: 10/14/2008 1:46:36 PM EDT
Mr. Moderator:  I'm a LE officer, I work with, am on and teach teams.  Yes, security aspects of my life are high.   I'm a professional instructor teaching everything from entry, to machinegun and everything in between.  I have students from America and beyond and this gun was built for working door kickers.  In this past conference, I had the lead instructor from the Royal British Army in my class.  Currently arrangements are being made to get me across to Britian to teach them my techniques.  I teach at select conferences and most of my classes are restricted to LE/Military.

This pistol: DOG (Directed Operations Group) is an operational GROUP. ALL the guns of the Group are marked DOG.  The Big DOG is it's affectionate name.  I have other DOG pistols and pistol designs.  The big thing is this is a HARDENED GUN!  Because of the clients it is primarily designed for, it has to be 100% every time.  True operators buy my guns or civilians who are looking for the ultimate working piece.  

HARDENED:  Just what it says....every piece is tool steel, forged, machined, magnefluxed, X-Rayed or tested and treated well beyond civilian guns are.  Everything was designed to be bigger for a Gas Mask, or SCBA, gloved hands, etc.  This was not designed to be a market gun.  This is a working gun.  And yes, most of my clients come to me from teams.  I have very few civilan clients.  I don't own a store front.  I am a manufacturer.  We build suppressors, machineguns, tactical rifles, etc.  We build guns so that the good guys can WIN and go home to their families at the end of their tour or shift.  

Now if someone wants to read an article on my pistol, you won't have to wait long.  Just today one was shipped to a leading writer and editor who caught wind of this project a year ago.  He will have the pistol shortly and you'll see and read about it soon enough.  

And to answer one question:  The entire team we just supplied received identical guns except for left handed operators who received Ambi-Safeties.  I don't know how to upload a pic but I can certainly show images of their guns all stacked up waiting for delivery.  

Mr. Moderator how else may I answer your questions.  Please advise.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 3:09:42 PM EDT
Hey I like your guns....everyone needs to just relax.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 3:26:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ProPistols:

The point here being, when you've accomplished what I have, you too will have the right to get persnickity when somene looks at a PIC of your pistol and declares it over priced.  PLEASE.....show some common sense and a little courtesy to those of us who actually try to move the products forward by designing their own products.  Show some support for American Products using American labor using American Designs...or are you going to compare us to Norinco?


I did not compare you to Norinco, I pointed out the fact that the definition you gave as to what a custom gun was could be used to describe a Norinco. I also pointed out the the process you belittled was the one that most of the repected builders in the country use.

As to acomplishing what you have, it depends on what you mean. Have I marketed products, no I haven't. Have I been involved with Law Enforcement and built guns that have been used to save lives, yeah, I have. 15 years ago pretty much all I was doing was building guns for LE, and some of those guns were used for their intended purpose, rather successfully. Wile I felt a certain amount of pride that my guns worked as intended, I am also mature enough to understand that they (the Deputies involved) would have done just as well with a Sig 220 or a Glock 21. No BG's killed with a gun I built were any deader than the ones that were shot with any other handgun used by other members of the Department.

There are a lot of neat toys being used by LE these days but lets not kid ourselves that a $3,000+ dollar hangun is needed to accomplish any law enforcement mission. A State LE Agency, or unit needing three years to select a handgun sounds like a waste of taxpayer money to me. I'd really like to see the criteria of the test, just to see how relevant to LE it is.

Changing gears here, I did look at the gun, and I think it's pretty darned cool.

Tim Bacus

Link Posted: 10/14/2008 3:38:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2008 3:41:55 PM EDT by Trumpet]

Originally Posted By pistolwretch:
As SGB said, the lukewarm reception was predictable.

I for one do not see the price of $3400 as being excessive. In fact, it's a lot less than what some of our more prominent smiths charge for a similar gun. Wilson and Nighthawk just to name two companies, have offerings priced well above this.

If I may, I'd like to suggest 'restarting' this thread.
Let's give Mr. Provost a fair opportunity to describe his products and experience.

The marketing hype may well not originate with Mr. Provost. The distributor may be responsible much to Mr. Provost's chagrin. It happens in many industries.

I did a google search on Christopher Provost and only found a site that has not been updated for quite a while.
I did not search for a team using the acronym SLTU as my google-fu is weak.

I understand the importance of personal security and operational security and I realize that Mr. Provost may need to be less than specific in some areas.

Mr. Provost, the floor is yours.


I agree, but the Top Secret (intentionally NOT giving his name and cryptically saying things like "The point here being, when you've accomplished what I have") schtick and the whole "you're not a door-kicker so you wouldn't get it" attitude aren't exactly endearing.  I mean, I searched LTW, 1911forums, and Pistolsmith and got NO results for anything related to him.  I figure you, Bob, Ned, Jason, Ted, Pete, etc. have built a hell of a  lot more pistols for "Operators" etc. yet you're not afraid of being attacked by Ninjas (at least I don't think you are) in the middle of the night for divulging your real name.  Heck, Pat Rogers and Larry Vickers are pretty "High speed" and have no issues with putting themselves "out there".

I think if he drops the secret agent bit, and is more upfront about his product and who he is (and his experience) and dropped the condescention ("Mr. Moderator"), the reception would be warmer.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 3:53:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet:

Originally Posted By pistolwretch:
As SGB said, the lukewarm reception was predictable.

I for one do not see the price of $3400 as being excessive. In fact, it's a lot less than what some of our more prominent smiths charge for a similar gun. Wilson and Nighthawk just to name two companies, have offerings priced well above this.

If I may, I'd like to suggest 'restarting' this thread.
Let's give Mr. Provost a fair opportunity to describe his products and experience.

The marketing hype may well not originate with Mr. Provost. The distributor may be responsible much to Mr. Provost's chagrin. It happens in many industries.

I did a google search on Christopher Provost and only found a site that has not been updated for quite a while.
I did not search for a team using the acronym SLTU as my google-fu is weak.

I understand the importance of personal security and operational security and I realize that Mr. Provost may need to be less than specific in some areas.

Mr. Provost, the floor is yours.


I agree, but the Top Secret (intentionally NOT giving his name and cryptically saying things like "The point here being, when you've accomplished what I have") schtick and the whole "you're not a door-kicker so you wouldn't get it" attitude aren't exactly endearing.  I mean, I searched LTW, 1911forums, and Pistolsmith and got NO results for anything related to him.  I figure you, Bob, Ned, Jason, Ted, Pete, etc. have built a hell of a  lot more pistols for "Operators" etc. yet you're not afraid of being attacked by Ninjas (at least I don't think you are) in the middle of the night for divulging your real name.  Heck, Pat Rogers and Larry Vickers are pretty "High speed" and have no issues with putting themselves "out there".

I think if he drops the secret agent bit, and is more upfront about his product and who he is (and his experience) and dropped the condescention ("Mr. Moderator"), the reception would be warmer.


I heartily agree. I'm really getting the mall-ninja vibe.  I IMed Mr. TopSecret and offered to host the pics of his work, so we shall see. I'm willing to be proven wrong.
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