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Posted: 10/7/2007 12:10:09 PM EDT
Beretta 92 vs. CZ 75

1. Which is the most reliable overall?
2. Which is the most rugged from the standpoint of taking alot of high volume shooting?

Thanks guys. I want an all-metal 9mm mostly for taking to the range. I already have a bunch of polymer wonders, so let's keep the discussion to the two pistols in question (unless there is one in the same price range AND capacity range that will best these two).
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:15:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 12:15:41 PM EDT by Marksman14]
Pretty hard to say with any definitive answer.

Both are very reliable, and very durable firearms that will withstand damn near anything you'll be able to throw at them.

I'd vote for the CZ75 if you got the SAO model.

I'd vote for the Beretta if you got a DA/SA firearm. The CZ DA/SA trigger with decocker is one of the most aweful triggers I've ever had the "pleasure" of using.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:34:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:40:02 PM EDT
I bought the CZ-75 and reccomend you do the same.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:53:44 PM EDT
the 92FS has better quality of workmanship.
I went to a shop to get a CZ75 because of the raves. Well, the finish looks like shit, it looks like some kid just painted it with a paint brush.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:55:33 PM EDT
i would go for the CZ over the beretta any day of the week.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 1:32:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 1:40:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 1:44:38 PM EDT by eddiein1984]
They are both quality weapons. The Beretta is bulkier overall, and has an alloy frame. The CZ has a poorer finish and rougher machining. In terms of reliability, I would give the nod to the Beretta. In terms of longevity, the replaceable locking block design (every 30K rounds) of the Beretta is more likely to last forever than the Browning-type lugs on the CZ. Of course, it is unlikely either pistol will ever wear out with normal use.

In the end though, they are both top-quality military service pistols with a proven track record. I think both are worlds better than anything lower in price like the Ruger P-Series or S&W M&P. I think it really comes down to which fits your hand better.

Link Posted: 10/7/2007 2:38:22 PM EDT
I own both.

Reliable- Both 100%

Accuracy- For me thay are both accurate but I shoot the CZ more accurate

Ergos- CZ for ME hands down although the 92 is not bad.

Fit and finish- The new 92s I have seen are no better than my CZs but my Satin stainless 92 is a little nicer than my 75.

If I had to pick one over the other I would choose the 75.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 2:43:05 PM EDT
my first pistol when i turned 21 was the 92fs.


one of my next pistols was the cz75kadet pistol. i probably shot 2k round through the kadet, then never shot it again. i really didn't like the trigger pull. guess im just picky.

Link Posted: 10/7/2007 3:59:24 PM EDT
CZ
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 4:19:32 PM EDT
Thanks for the responses guys - it's starting to look like I may have to go the ARfcom way and get both .

How about magazines, is one cheaper or easier to find quality mags for than the other?
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:29:05 AM EDT
You can probably get 92 mags cheaper. I recommend you get a 75B. You can many different variants such as a SAO, DA/SA, DECOCKER, Stainless, Blued, Nickel, Railed, or non railed. The list goes on!
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:47:56 AM EDT
so which has a better trigger in SA?

what about in DA?
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:51:33 AM EDT
When I was looking for a 9mm, I shot both, as well as many other 9mm's.

The beretta was the one that said buy me.

The CZ, had a much sharper kick, shooting the exact same bullet.

I'd shoot a CZ anytime, and recommend it to many, who are on a budget, but it's just not as refined as the Beretta.

Shoot them both, that will answer your question.

TXL
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:04:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By polik6887:
so which has a better trigger in SA?

what about in DA?


In SA, I think they're close enough as makes no difference.

In DA, my CZ-75B has a very good trigger, if the trigger reach is quite long. The Beretta isn't quite as good, but if you replace the mainspring with the DAO spring (a five-minute operation), it is actually a little better than the CZ.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:41:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
The CZ, had a much sharper kick, shooting the exact same bullet.

TXL


Are you sure you were shooting a CZ-75 and not a CZ-52 or something? I have NEVER heard of anyone thinking the CZ-75 had harsh recoil, it doesn't even make sense from a physics standpoint since the CZ has a steel frame and the beretta is Al.

I also dont agree that the beretta is more "refined" than the CZ-75. I can shoot much better with a CZ-75 than with a M-92 myself.



Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:43:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
I'd vote for the Beretta if you got a DA/SA firearm. The CZ DA/SA trigger with decocker is one of the most aweful triggers I've ever had the "pleasure" of using.



The DA/SA version of the CZ-75 is not the same thing as the decocker version.

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:48:14 AM EDT
+1 for the CZ
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:50:30 AM EDT
I've owned both I really like the CZ better due to it's frame mounted ambi safety .
Admitted it's CZ 85 but the only differance are the ambi controls .

Mecgars are $15 -18 .

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:53:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
I'd vote for the Beretta if you got a DA/SA firearm. The CZ DA/SA trigger with decocker is one of the most aweful triggers I've ever had the "pleasure" of using.



The DA/SA version of the CZ-75 is not the same thing as the decocker version.



???? Both the CZ-75B and CZ-75BD (decocker model) have DA/SA trigger. The only difference is that the CZ-75B has a non-decock safety, while the CZ-75BD has a decock-only.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:55:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Pretty hard to say with any definitive answer.

Both are very reliable, and very durable firearms that will withstand damn near anything you'll be able to throw at them.

I'd vote for the CZ75 if you got the SAO model.

I'd vote for the Beretta if you got a DA/SA firearm. The CZ DA/SA trigger with decocker is one of the most aweful triggers I've ever had the "pleasure" of using.


The SAO model isn't necessary - standard CZ75/85 pistols are equipped with a manual safety and can be carried in Condition 1.


As for the original post, they're both great guns. Shoot 'em both and see what you like - I opted for the Beretta.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 8:46:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eddiein1984:

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
I'd vote for the Beretta if you got a DA/SA firearm. The CZ DA/SA trigger with decocker is one of the most aweful triggers I've ever had the "pleasure" of using.



The DA/SA version of the CZ-75 is not the same thing as the decocker version.



???? Both the CZ-75B and CZ-75BD (decocker model) have DA/SA trigger. The only difference is that the CZ-75B has a non-decock safety, while the CZ-75BD has a decock-only.


Yes but the decocker requires you to use the DA trigger pull for the first shot while the SA/DA version does not.

I just did a writeup on CZ triggers, this should eliminate confusion:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=37&t=48746&page=1
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 8:47:54 AM EDT
CZ-75 of value. Beretta is decent I heard but the CZ gets a lot more positive feedback and it costs less.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:14:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 9:16:45 AM EDT by Marksman14]

Originally Posted By polik6887:
so which has a better trigger in SA?

what about in DA?


Beretta is better if you compare it to a DA/SA CZ in both modes.

If you compare the SA pull of a beretta to the SA pull of an SAO CZ, they are about equal, but a SAO CZ is very tunable.

FYI, when I say DA/SA model, I'm referring to the decocker version.

When I say SAO, I'm referring to the model with the safety, because you shouldn't be manually lowering a hammer on a loaded round. I dont care if it has double strike capability, for all practical purposes, if it has a manual safety that is engaged when the hammer is back with no decocker, its SAO.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:25:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 9:25:58 AM EDT by --bullseye--]

Originally Posted By Blacksnake:
Thanks for the responses guys - it's starting to look like I may have to go the ARfcom way and get both .

How about magazines, is one cheaper or easier to find quality mags for than the other?


Hands down the Beretta mags are less expensive and easier to find than CZ mags.

Not bashing the CZ, I'm just stating a fact.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 11:04:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 11:05:43 AM EDT by TexasRifleman]
I'd buyed a CZ-75 before I'd buyed a Beretta.

eta I still can't spell. I give up.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 3:43:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 3:58:46 PM EDT by Ralph]
I've owned both, I had a CZ-85, Bought new in 2000, I've also got a Beretta 92 compact (9mm) and a M96 (40 cal) I sold the CZ..In my opinion they are overrated..Mine had a lousy trigger in either mode, the trigger itself is long and can be diffcult to reach.After 2000 or so rounds the trigger never got any better as some have suggested they do. Mine also had a trigger slap problem, shoot about 3-4 boxes of ammo and my trigger finger hurt enough to get me to stop shooting it. That alone was part of the reason I sold it. Accuracy was good, although from the factory mine needed the rear sight moved to the right enough to be noticeable, Reliabilty was also very good. In the last 4-5 years CZ's have been noted for having problems with their springs. Extractor springs are known to be problematic, mine needed a slide stop spring replaced, at around 1700 rnds. CZ sent me a new slide stop spring I replaced it myself, it wasn't exactly easy either. New CZ buyers should also know that the stock plastic grips will be damaged if they come in contact with any cleaning solvents, I'd suggest replacing with factory rubber ones, ASAP.(ask me how I know) As far as pricing goes..locally one shop has a two tone CZ-75 for $469.00, That, in my opinion isn't what I call a bargin, I took a look at it, the trigger felt exactly the same as my old one, that told me all I need to know.. The Beretta's I own don't have any of the drawbacks that CZ's do, excellant triggers in either mode out of the box, sights are dead on, needing No adjustment. Very accurate, very reliable, easy to find mags, parts, holsters for. I'm sorry, But those of you who got a good CZ, good for you, mine was a turd, and after shooting the Beretta's I'll never go back to a CZ 75-85..
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 3:53:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By eddiein1984:

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
I'd vote for the Beretta if you got a DA/SA firearm. The CZ DA/SA trigger with decocker is one of the most aweful triggers I've ever had the "pleasure" of using.



The DA/SA version of the CZ-75 is not the same thing as the decocker version.



???? Both the CZ-75B and CZ-75BD (decocker model) have DA/SA trigger. The only difference is that the CZ-75B has a non-decock safety, while the CZ-75BD has a decock-only.


Yes but the decocker requires you to use the DA trigger pull for the first shot while the SA/DA version does not.

I just did a writeup on CZ triggers, this should eliminate confusion:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=37&t=48746&page=1


I think you just created more confusion. No matter how you look at it, the CZ-75B has a DA/SA trigger, as does the CZ-75BD. The difference is that the CZ-75B gives you the option of carrying cocked and locked to AVOID the DA trigger pull.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 10:07:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 10:10:44 AM EDT by SpacemanSpiff]

Originally Posted By eddiein1984:

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By eddiein1984:

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
I'd vote for the Beretta if you got a DA/SA firearm. The CZ DA/SA trigger with decocker is one of the most aweful triggers I've ever had the "pleasure" of using.



The DA/SA version of the CZ-75 is not the same thing as the decocker version.



???? Both the CZ-75B and CZ-75BD (decocker model) have DA/SA trigger. The only difference is that the CZ-75B has a non-decock safety, while the CZ-75BD has a decock-only.


Yes but the decocker requires you to use the DA trigger pull for the first shot while the SA/DA version does not.

I just did a writeup on CZ triggers, this should eliminate confusion:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=37&t=48746&page=1


I think you just created more confusion. No matter how you look at it, the CZ-75B has a DA/SA trigger, as does the CZ-75BD. The difference is that the CZ-75B gives you the option of carrying cocked and locked to AVOID the DA trigger pull.


How on earth is there anything left to be confused about. It is all there in black and white. There is NO need to use the DA function on the 75B. It is designed to be carried cocked and locked. It is essentially a single action gun with a restrike capability. There is absolutely nothing confusing about that. Nothing at all. You don't use the DA pull on a CZ75B. You just don't. No need. Never need to use it. Nothing confusing there.

Beretta M92 and decocker CZ-75... can't be carried cocked and locked.... must use DA pull.... CZ-75B is carried cocked and locked ONLY... never uses the DA pull. I fail to see how that is in any way confusing at all.



Link Posted: 10/9/2007 10:33:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ralph:
I've owned both, I had a CZ-85, Bought new in 2000, I've also got a Beretta 92 compact (9mm) and a M96 (40 cal) I sold the CZ..In my opinion they are overrated..Mine had a lousy trigger in either mode, the trigger itself is long and can be diffcult to reach.After 2000 or so rounds the trigger never got any better as some have suggested they do. Mine also had a trigger slap problem, shoot about 3-4 boxes of ammo and my trigger finger hurt enough to get me to stop shooting it. That alone was part of the reason I sold it. Accuracy was good, although from the factory mine needed the rear sight moved to the right enough to be noticeable, Reliabilty was also very good. In the last 4-5 years CZ's have been noted for having problems with their springs. Extractor springs are known to be problematic, mine needed a slide stop spring replaced, at around 1700 rnds. CZ sent me a new slide stop spring I replaced it myself, it wasn't exactly easy either. New CZ buyers should also know that the stock plastic grips will be damaged if they come in contact with any cleaning solvents, I'd suggest replacing with factory rubber ones, ASAP.(ask me how I know) As far as pricing goes..locally one shop has a two tone CZ-75 for $469.00, That, in my opinion isn't what I call a bargin, I took a look at it, the trigger felt exactly the same as my old one, that told me all I need to know.. The Beretta's I own don't have any of the drawbacks that CZ's do, excellant triggers in either mode out of the box, sights are dead on, needing No adjustment. Very accurate, very reliable, easy to find mags, parts, holsters for. I'm sorry, But those of you who got a good CZ, good for you, mine was a turd, and after shooting the Beretta's I'll never go back to a CZ 75-85..


If your CZ-75 had trigger slap something was wrong with it.

The CZ triggers from the factory aren't that great, the hammer, transfer bar, and sear are rough. The guns would cost significantly more if they did trigger work on them at the factory. The CZ-75 variants that do have trigger work done on them at the factory cost anywhere from $800-$1200. The base CZ-75B is a bargain at $450 even if you replace ALL its springs with U.S. made Wolff springs and do $100 worth of trigger work on it. Sorry you didnt get a nice trigger on yours, but with some work it would have kicked the pants off your beretta's trigger. Adjusting sights is something I expect to do for every firearm I buy, different ammo shoots to different point of impact, thats just how it is.


Link Posted: 10/9/2007 4:19:41 PM EDT
I was introduced to pistol shooting on the M9...Then did several months research and bought a CZ-75B with night sights for under $400...Also convinced several .mil shooters to do the same. They call it "the best decision in handguns I have ever made".

The one thing the Beretta has on the CZ is trigger. I plain do not like the DA trigger on the Beretta (too damned long) but the DA trigger on the CZ is too damned long AND too damned heavy.

The nice thing is that Matt Mink or Angus Hobdell do great smithing work. A tune job on a decocking CZ 75 will run $120-180 and result in a 7.5/4.5lb trigger.

The CZ is a real soft shooter. Mags run $19-20 bucks. Can be found for $350-400 whereas Berettas are $450-500.

CZ also comes in a plethora of different variations. Personally, I'd like the SP-01.

No malfunctions in 3k rounds. Only change I've made to mine is I put on the rubber grips from a P-01. Feels great, less bulk than Beretta.

Can't go wrong with a CZ. Great company, great product.

Link Posted: 10/9/2007 5:23:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 5:35:30 PM EDT by Ralph]

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By Ralph:
I've owned both, I had a CZ-85, Bought new in 2000, I've also got a Beretta 92 compact (9mm) and a M96 (40 cal) I sold the CZ..In my opinion they are overrated..Mine had a lousy trigger in either mode, the trigger itself is long and can be diffcult to reach.After 2000 or so rounds the trigger never got any better as some have suggested they do. Mine also had a trigger slap problem, shoot about 3-4 boxes of ammo and my trigger finger hurt enough to get me to stop shooting it. That alone was part of the reason I sold it. Accuracy was good, although from the factory mine needed the rear sight moved to the right enough to be noticeable, Reliabilty was also very good. In the last 4-5 years CZ's have been noted for having problems with their springs. Extractor springs are known to be problematic, mine needed a slide stop spring replaced, at around 1700 rnds. CZ sent me a new slide stop spring I replaced it myself, it wasn't exactly easy either. New CZ buyers should also know that the stock plastic grips will be damaged if they come in contact with any cleaning solvents, I'd suggest replacing with factory rubber ones, ASAP.(ask me how I know) As far as pricing goes..locally one shop has a two tone CZ-75 for $469.00, That, in my opinion isn't what I call a bargin, I took a look at it, the trigger felt exactly the same as my old one, that told me all I need to know.. The Beretta's I own don't have any of the drawbacks that CZ's do, excellant triggers in either mode out of the box, sights are dead on, needing No adjustment. Very accurate, very reliable, easy to find mags, parts, holsters for. I'm sorry, But those of you who got a good CZ, good for you, mine was a turd, and after shooting the Beretta's I'll never go back to a CZ 75-85..


If your CZ-75 had trigger slap something was wrong with it.

The CZ triggers from the factory aren't that great, the hammer, transfer bar, and sear are rough. The guns would cost significantly more if they did trigger work on them at the factory. The CZ-75 variants that do have trigger work done on them at the factory cost anywhere from $800-$1200. The base CZ-75B is a bargain at $450 even if you replace ALL its springs with U.S. made Wolff springs and do $100 worth of trigger work on it. Sorry you didnt get a nice trigger on yours, but with some work it would have kicked the pants off your beretta's trigger. Adjusting sights is something I expect to do for every firearm I buy, different ammo shoots to different point of impact, thats just how it is.




Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....I checked into getting an action job done by Miossi gun works, I'm told he's one of the best CZ 'smiths out there, his actions jobs run around $200 or so,and are I'm told, the best..period. but the waiting list when I checked was 18 months!! At that point I threw in the towel..I cound not justify pouring a bunch of money into a second tier pistol just to get it where it should have been in the first place...If Beretta can take a few minutes to fit, and smooth up the trigger parts before assembly, so could CZ. I can greatly improve the Beretta trigger with a $6.00 part, a "D" spring not $120 trigger job. That alone in my book, puts it ahead of the game. If you're happy with your CZ, great, I tried'em, was dissapointed in several ways, found something I like much better, dosen't require extra 'smithing to get a decent trigger, shoots as well, is just as reliable, and dosen't cost that much more, considering CZ has been raising their prices a bit the last couple of years. CZ's can be made into great pistols, if you're willing to spend the money. I'm not.

Check over at the CZ forum about the trigger slap, I seem to recall reading about it over there and as I recall, I'm not the only one who had it. what causes it I don't know,

Link Posted: 10/9/2007 7:01:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ralph:

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By Ralph:
I've owned both, I had a CZ-85, Bought new in 2000, I've also got a Beretta 92 compact (9mm) and a M96 (40 cal) I sold the CZ..In my opinion they are overrated..Mine had a lousy trigger in either mode, the trigger itself is long and can be diffcult to reach.After 2000 or so rounds the trigger never got any better as some have suggested they do. Mine also had a trigger slap problem, shoot about 3-4 boxes of ammo and my trigger finger hurt enough to get me to stop shooting it. That alone was part of the reason I sold it. Accuracy was good, although from the factory mine needed the rear sight moved to the right enough to be noticeable, Reliabilty was also very good. In the last 4-5 years CZ's have been noted for having problems with their springs. Extractor springs are known to be problematic, mine needed a slide stop spring replaced, at around 1700 rnds. CZ sent me a new slide stop spring I replaced it myself, it wasn't exactly easy either. New CZ buyers should also know that the stock plastic grips will be damaged if they come in contact with any cleaning solvents, I'd suggest replacing with factory rubber ones, ASAP.(ask me how I know) As far as pricing goes..locally one shop has a two tone CZ-75 for $469.00, That, in my opinion isn't what I call a bargin, I took a look at it, the trigger felt exactly the same as my old one, that told me all I need to know.. The Beretta's I own don't have any of the drawbacks that CZ's do, excellant triggers in either mode out of the box, sights are dead on, needing No adjustment. Very accurate, very reliable, easy to find mags, parts, holsters for. I'm sorry, But those of you who got a good CZ, good for you, mine was a turd, and after shooting the Beretta's I'll never go back to a CZ 75-85..


If your CZ-75 had trigger slap something was wrong with it.

The CZ triggers from the factory aren't that great, the hammer, transfer bar, and sear are rough. The guns would cost significantly more if they did trigger work on them at the factory. The CZ-75 variants that do have trigger work done on them at the factory cost anywhere from $800-$1200. The base CZ-75B is a bargain at $450 even if you replace ALL its springs with U.S. made Wolff springs and do $100 worth of trigger work on it. Sorry you didnt get a nice trigger on yours, but with some work it would have kicked the pants off your beretta's trigger. Adjusting sights is something I expect to do for every firearm I buy, different ammo shoots to different point of impact, thats just how it is.




Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....I checked into getting an action job done by Miossi gun works, I'm told he's one of the best CZ 'smiths out there, his actions jobs run around $200 or so,and are I'm told, the best..period. but the waiting list when I checked was 18 months!! At that point I threw in the towel..I cound not justify pouring a bunch of money into a second tier pistol just to get it where it should have been in the first place...If Beretta can take a few minutes to fit, and smooth up the trigger parts before assembly, so could CZ. I can greatly improve the Beretta trigger with a $6.00 part, a "D" spring not $120 trigger job. That alone in my book, puts it ahead of the game. If you're happy with your CZ, great, I tried'em, was dissapointed in several ways, found something I like much better, dosen't require extra 'smithing to get a decent trigger, shoots as well, is just as reliable, and dosen't cost that much more, considering CZ has been raising their prices a bit the last couple of years. CZ's can be made into great pistols, if you're willing to spend the money. I'm not.

Check over at the CZ forum about the trigger slap, I seem to recall reading about it over there and as I recall, I'm not the only one who had it. what causes it I don't know,



My old mans P01 had some minor trigger slap. It has since worked itself out go figure.

Great little gun...with the most horrific trigger known to man. But as stated earlier, CZ's without decockers are an EXCELLENT choice.

When I eventually pick up my own CZ (probably an SP01) it will most certainly be the condition 1 friendly flavor.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 1:10:24 PM EDT
Thanks for all the info guys. Good stuff!

I'll probably still follow the ARfcom way and get both eventually though!
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 1:12:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 5:39:58 PM EDT
My 92 elite is one of the most comfortable guns in the hand I have ever held. It is large but points and shoots so naturally, for me anyway.

S.O.
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