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Posted: 9/18/2004 3:45:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2004 3:56:13 PM EST by panzersergeant]
Finally got around to attending a CCW class today. The instructor was a 19-year veteran State Trooper and did a good job of teaching the class. Half the class used revolvers, the other half used autos. A lot of emphasis was placed on safe-handling of handguns, and being sure of target before shooting. The instructor's favorite carry weapon is a vintage Argentine M1911. (I don't know how old it really is, but the gun looked brand new.)

Some of the things I learned:
-fuck wounding someone; if you feel your life is in danger empty the magazine
-Florida has one of the best CCW permits as far as reciprocity with other states goes
-unless you are in your home or place of business, you have a duty to retreat
-draw your sidearm as a last resort
-recent changes to SC concealed-carry law: you can carry in a church or hospital now with written authority of responsible officials from church or hospital, and you can carry while at rest stops

I used my SIG P226 9mm and shot 50 for 50, which sounds impressive until you realize all you have to do is put the rounds in the black silhouette.

All in all, a very pleasant way to spend a saturday!
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 5:09:31 PM EST
While it can be a good option on a case by case basis, SC mandates a duty to retreat when in public?
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 6:34:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By JosephK:
While it can be a good option on a case by case basis, SC mandates a duty to retreat when in public?



Yes, unless retreating further endangers you or others. If a badguy has a gun and is shooting at you or others, retreating would further endanger you because he would be shooting you in the ass. In a case like that, you are not required to retreat.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 7:21:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2004 7:22:19 PM EST by Wables]
I took my CCW class as well today in MI. The class was more geared to the legal aspects of carrying and firing rather than safe handling, etc. Michigan also has the "retreat rule" unless you're in your own house. However, if your retreat puts the lives of others in danger, you are allowed to "put yourself in the victims shoes". In other words, you are allowed to stay in the situation and engage the aggressor if others are in danger who are not able to flee.

Though I ABSOLUTELY WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE THIS MANDATORY, it would be a good idea for all gun owners to take a CCW class to find out what the laws are and what happens when you pull the trigger during the defense of yourself or others. No one would like to lose their house after defending it.

Ironically, my instructor recommended to not carry a 1911 for various reasons. He was a fan of DA revolvers and DA and DAO semis. His main concerns were light, short trigger pulls on SA's and public perception of seeing the hammer back on a carry gun. Guess what, I would rather carry my Kimber that I have thousands of rounds through and can hit a buisness card with at 50' with than a DAO snubbie that I have a hard time hitting a pumpkin with at the same distance.

Although I am thinking about picking up some kind of pocket gun, when the SHTF, I want my Kimber in my hand. Better yet, does anyone make an IWB holster for an AR?
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:45:42 PM EST
Wables said ..... Ironically, my instructor recommended to not carry a 1911 for various reasons. He was a fan of DA revolvers and DA and DAO semis. His main concerns were light, short trigger pulls on SA's and public perception of seeing the hammer back on a carry gun. Guess what, I would rather carry my Kimber that I have thousands of rounds through and can hit a buisness card with at 50' with than a DAO snubbie that I have a hard time hitting a pumpkin with at the same distance.

In my class the main instructor is a 1911 fan but the other instructor kind of shuddered when he looked at my Officers Sized Springfield. He told me he did not like a 1911 for carry. Both are LEO's and I agree with you Wables as I like the 1911 as a carry gun. I believe they are safer than a Glock to carry as they need the trigger pulled, hammer safety disengaged, and grip safety disengaged for it to fire. If something catches in the Glock trigger guard, it can fire. This is not a Glock slam as I like them too. It's just that the one instructor thought the Glock was a great carry gun but not a 1911. My point is either is OK if you understand it's weaknesses and compensate for them.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 9:54:57 PM EST
Hey Heathen, I have carried that very same Springfield Micro 1911 for 4 yrs now, every day, most all day, and it has never given my anything but a nice, warm, safe and sound feeling. I have had cop buddies cringe and scoff at my little 1911, but then again, these guy's are LEO's and they still spend half the time at the range that I do. Train with it.... Become very confident and comfortable with it. Keep your head on stright, be careful and respect it, and hopefully you will never have a problem. One little note of advise, if that springfield of yours has the extended ambi safety on it, make sure to keep an eye on it if your carring it in a thumb break holster, the strap on mine has wiggled my safety off before... and all else aside, that one does make me a little nervous!
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 10:29:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wables:
Ironically, my instructor recommended to not carry a 1911 for various reasons. He was a fan of DA revolvers and DA and DAO semis. His main concerns were light, short trigger pulls on SA's and public perception of seeing the hammer back on a carry gun.



Thats what I like about a P99. The stress trigger always causes the first pull to be long and hard to preventa accidental discharges. Pulls no hammer for anyone to see so you can carry cocked if you like. Plus it fits your hand like a dream.

MadMan
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 8:55:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stright_Shooter:
Hey Heathen, I have carried that very same Springfield Micro 1911 for 4 yrs now, every day, most all day, and it has never given my anything but a nice, warm, safe and sound feeling. I have had cop buddies cringe and scoff at my little 1911, but then again, these guy's are LEO's and they still spend half the time at the range that I do. Train with it.... Become very confident and comfortable with it. Keep your head on stright, be careful and respect it, and hopefully you will never have a problem. One little note of advise, if that springfield of yours has the extended ambi safety on it, make sure to keep an eye on it if your carring it in a thumb break holster, the strap on mine has wiggled my safety off before... and all else aside, that one does make me a little nervous!



Thanks for the tip. My Officers has the standard safety but my full size has the extended ambi safety so I'll have to watch that if I carry it. When I get the cash saved I plan to get a Milt Sparks VM2 for it and a decent belt.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:14:51 AM EST
every once in a while at a gun show i overhear the instructor. seems like a LARGE percentage of the time i hear something which makes me cringe.

sometimes factually incorrect

sometimes tactically stupid

sometimes a personal opinion the instructor subjects his inexperienced class to



READ THE LAW ON A REGULAR BASIS! IT CHANGES!

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 1:39:13 PM EST

I personally belive that instructors should keep their personal opinions to themselves and present the class with facts
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 2:34:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 4:41:11 PM EST
i sat in on a class at the local range . I agreed to do their finger printing so there was no extra trip to have it done. I'm just nice like that anyway.. i sat there listening to this guy tell everyone that a glock is a gun designed to kill people . It has no safety and holstering it may result in shooting yourself. Then he went on to say how they were originally made of all polymer which he pronounced incorrectly as well. After the all polymer comment i got up and left the room. Sad to hear things like that from people who "repersent " the NRA.

J
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:37:44 AM EST
What gets me is the classes I have taken, a lot of discussion was made about what pistol was right for which person, none mentioned purchasing a good holster and belt.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 12:21:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 12:21:47 PM EST by wolffie]
If the gun is CONCEALED how the hell is anyone going to see a cocked hammer on a carry gun to get worried about it?

Carry Glocks, Carry 1911's, who really gives a shit. Carry a Hi Point if you want to. I don't F'n care. But, I do carry my 1911's and have carried my HK's cocked and locked. No one has ever had any issue with the hammers on my guns being cocked.
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