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Posted: 5/30/2008 8:23:07 PM EDT
Not Trolling!!!

I just found a sale on Sigmas over to summit for dirt cheap.
www.summitgunbroker.com/S_W_Sigma_cheap__.html

Smith & Wesson SW40C. 40cal with 3 14rd mags, night sights and come in original box. Lot of gun for $239. I also have some SW40E, the later model with the acc. rail for $259, also with 3 mags. Some of these have the box and some don't.

I just can't believe any newish gun going for so CHEAP if it shoot at all.

What do you guys think?

FB
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 9:31:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_Boy:
Not Trolling!!!

I just found a sale on Sigmas over to summit for dirt cheap.
www.summitgunbroker.com/S_W_Sigma_cheap__.html

Smith & Wesson SW40C. 40cal with 3 14rd mags, night sights and come in original box. Lot of gun for $239. I also have some SW40E, the later model with the acc. rail for $259, also with 3 mags. Some of these have the box and some don't.

I just can't believe any newish gun going for so CHEAP if it shoot at all.

What do you guys think?

FB


I have one. For the price, it shoots.

That said, it has a horrible trigger. Firing a Sigma is like squeezing a half-filled balloon and waiting for it to explode; some of the time, it does.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 7:16:41 PM EDT
I would steer clear of the older ones. I have one of the sw9ve's that I picked up in a multi gun trade and yes the trigger is heavy and grainy but it has been totally reliable. After a couple hundred rounds it does smooth out some.


Bottom line, brand new two tone with 4 16rnd mags for just a little over $300, reliable and have a crappy trigger, you decide

Summit gun broker has a deal on 2nd gen Glock 19's for not much more coin.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 7:47:09 PM EDT
shoot one, and determine for yourself

for what i've seen, they work more times than not, h/w, for the price, i'd just as soon put it to something else

YMMV
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 7:50:44 PM EDT
I had one in .40...it was very accurate and reliable...but the trigger sucked big time. That's why I got rid of it. I would wait and save up if the price is an issue and go for something else...but you can try one out and see if it's for you.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 9:26:56 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies. I don't really want one, I was just curious. For under $250 shipped w/ night sights seemed like a steal, but I really never heard of anyone liking them. I guess that is why they are so cheap. I am kind of a Glock man and have become "heavily invested" in their products; holsters and interchangeable mags. It becomes difficult to introduce something new into the mix, so I doubt I'll be changing anytime soon.

FB
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:38:55 PM EDT
my sigma has never let me down, it has ate every type of ammo i have

put through it and has never once that i can remember failed to fire when

i have pulled the trigger (which some times seems like a workout) i have had

my 9mm sigma for 3 or 4 years now and have so much faith in it that it is the

only weapon in my house that is not locked up it lives close to where ever i am

in the house.. sadly i think it is time to let my sigma go because the future wife

has a very hard time with the trigger pull so i think the old work horse is about

to find a new home and i will adopt a new xd9sc due to the lil miss liking the trigger

on my xd40 much better but she feels much better with a 9mm it's gonna be a sad day

to see my old friend go i hope she finds a good home
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 9:31:03 PM EDT


I carry mine everyday and have never had any problems out of it.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:42:58 PM EDT
Hell of a lot better than a Hi Point!!!

You could do a LOT worse!

I sold plenty to customers on a budget (NOT gang-bangers, either!) when I was in a gun shop. S&W name, warranty, plus they go bang. What more can you ask for a person not into the gun culture like we are but who wants a basic home defense weapon?
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:48:24 AM EDT
I like mine. Goes bang every time, accurate, not so great trigger, but nothing that can not be delt with.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 5:27:09 PM EDT
I was issued one at a department I used to work at. It was an old 1st Gen SW40F "problem" gun. I had never fired a Sigma, and I was not happy at all when I was issued it. So, I took it to the range with 500 rounds of my cast bullet reloads. Right out of the box, it went through those 500 rounds without any malfunction at all. While I was issued it, I fed it over 8000 rounds, and I had one FTE one time. Other than that, it was flawless.

While I was issued the Sigma, I picked up others over the years, just so I could be shooting the same thing at the range if I wanted to shoot a 9mm or .357 Sig. I've either owned or been issued 12 Sigmas over that time, and after many tens of thousands of rounds, mostly my own cast bullet reloads, that one FTE in the SW40F was the only malfunction I ever had.

The Gen 1 and Gen 2 Sigmas (pre-equipment rail versions) did have one major design flaw, that S&W addressed and stands behind under warranty. If you look at the front of the frame, the corners seem to curl up a little. That resulted due to the cooling of the polymer after moulding. It will eventually result in a stress crack, right in front of the serial number plate. No problem. Shoot it until it cracks, then return it to S&W (they even pay for shipping!), and they replace it with a new Sigma. I've had 4 of them replaced.

S&W made some other changes between the earlier and Gen 3, currently produced Sigmas. The addition of the equipment rail not only lets you install a Streamlight M4, but it also strengthened the front of the frame and eliminated the frame cracking problem. Then, they changed from a loose tolerance, chisel tip striker system to a close tolerance (within .002") round striker system. They also lowered the ejection port and redesigned the entire trigger assembly, which eliminated the light primer strike issue which, although rare, sometimes surfaced in the earlier Gens. Then, they added the checkering to the frame and contoured the corners of the slide. Cosmetic, sure, but it looks a lot better than the earlier Sigmas.

Since I have 20+ pre-ban mags (I'm from MA )in both 9mm and .40, I never bothered to trade off all of my Sigmas, although I rarely shoot them anymore. I kept one 9G and one 40G. But, honestly, I can't remember the last time I fired either of them. I'll take one of my Glocks, 3rd Gen DAO Smiths, CZ75B, Kimber, etc, before I grab a Sigma when I'm on my way to the range, and I always carry something else.

For the money, they are good, reliable, accurate guns. But, if you can afford a few extra bucks, I'd recommend something else. A lot of people complain about the triggers, but if you can shoot a DA wheelgun, you shouldn't have a problem with the Sigma. Over all the years, I never qualified with anything less than a 100% with a Sigma. If I had to, yes, I would trust my life to one again, too. But I'm glad I don't have to resort to that anymore.
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 6:52:06 AM EDT
About 2 weeks ago, i made my first pistol purchase and got a barely used sigma sw40ve for $100. The guy i bought it from had sigs and glocks and did not care for it anymore. I took it to the range and i am very pleased with it. The trigger is really stiff, but otherwise, it was accurate, reliable and fun.
Pic of my sigma
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4035/hpim1084kq2.jpg
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 7:50:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Squamata:
img108.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/06/04/img00435-4aqcho1ke.jpeg

I carry mine everyday and have never had any problems out of it.


nice hat. i ordered one myself.
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 8:44:24 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By Unjust:
About 2 weeks ago, i made my first pistol purchase and got a barely used sigma sw40ve for $100. The guy i bought it from had sigs and glocks and did not care for it anymore. I took it to the range and i am very pleased with it. The trigger is really stiff, but otherwise, it was accurate, reliable and fun.
Pic of my sigma
img510.imageshack.us/img510/4035/hpim1084kq2.jpg


100$...nice deal
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 8:50:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By limppy:
my sigma has never let me down, it has ate every type of ammo i have

put through it and has never once that i can remember failed to fire when

i have pulled the trigger (which some times seems like a workout) i have had

my 9mm sigma for 3 or 4 years now and have so much faith in it that it is the

only weapon in my house that is not locked up it lives close to where ever i am

in the house.. sadly i think it is time to let my sigma go because the future wife

has a very hard time with the trigger pull so i think the old work horse is about

to find a new home and i will adopt a new xd9sc due to the lil miss liking the trigger

on my xd40 much better but she feels much better with a 9mm it's gonna be a sad day

to see my old friend go i hope she finds a good home


Sentences are your friend...
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 6:34:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/23/2008 6:35:43 PM EDT by BigBore45]
In the late 90's i bought a Sigma 40F over a Glock 22 just to be different. An absolute POS in every respect. I'm sure they've been improved since then.
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 9:52:16 PM EDT
I purchased my minimally used 10+1 9SVE approx. 1 mo. ago in original box and with two mags (but no other "perks" you describe) from a dealer for approx. $290.

The gun is perfectly adequate. I have fired nearly 1000 rounds (Remington and Wolf) since, and agree with other forum members concerning the trigger issue.

Practice, consistency of grip, posture, respiration etc. improve accuracy, ease of use and enjoyment since, statisticallly, the mechanical characteristics associated with firing a round are to a great degree constant in any weapon under average, standard conditions. The challenge with the trigger simply makes learning the gun not as rapid or rewarding as some others, but at only 1/3-1/2 the price of cetain other brands, as already discussed!

Assuming there are no technical issues with the gun, and a return policy, service plan and/or a warranty are in place, this sounds like an excellent deal!

On the other hand, you probably know the "old-timer's" advice to try to buy the most expensive (but not frivolous) weapon one can comfortably afford, which is a related consideration if you do not want to put the extra work in to get the kinks out.

Good luck and enjoy.

Victor.
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 11:25:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_Boy:
I just can't believe any newish gun going for so CHEAP if it shoot at all.

What do you guys think?





I think to people that don't delude themselves, that's called A CLUE.
Link Posted: 7/25/2008 4:53:44 AM EDT
If you do a search on the Web, there is a procedure to lighten the trigger yourself.
From what I've read, it makes a huge difference.

I don't have a Sigma, nor have I shot one, but for the price ($250-ish new) with the coupon for a $50 rebate or two free 15rd mags, I've been very tempted.

Added to that, S&W has a lifetime warranty, and awesome customer service.

Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 7/28/2008 11:21:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Fat_Boy:
I just can't believe any newish gun going for so CHEAP if it shoot at all.

What do you guys think?





I think to people that don't delude themselves, that's called A CLUE.




For those of you playing along with the home game, remember that whenever you see the paw print, that means you have just found a clue. Remember to jot down each and every clue you find in your handy dandy notebook.



Link Posted: 7/29/2008 7:55:19 PM EDT
I have a Sigma in the .40 caliber. Some observations:

HEAVY trigger pull. I'm 6'3" and 285 lbs. I can fire it about 50 times before tiring. I've had the trigger pull on my weapon measured at a bit over 12 lbs. For a reference - my .357 mag. revolver when shot double action is right at 7 lbs.

Fairly accurate. Mine shoots 8" below where the sights line up - but it is consistently right there. To S&W's credit, they have offered to pay for the shipping back to the factory to see if the barrel is off center. If they would only make some sights that are adjustable and don't cost $175, then we'd be OK.

Huge handle. Fits my hand very well - possibly a bit too small for me. Way too big for the wife (she's 5'5" and would kill me if I posted her weight!). She shot it once - only about 50 rounds and had some slight bruising and mat burn on her thumb because she couldn't get her hand all of the way around it.

Heavy & large - perfect for me to carry concealed. Well balanced when loaded.

Fairly easy to disassemble and clean - once you figure out how to do so.

Has not had a single FTE, FTF or other mechanical problem - with cheap ammo or expensive, hollow point or flat nosed. It eats & eats (just like me happen
FWIW - my sister's boyfriend has shot it a bit, too (former gun-hating liberal who was won over to the "dark side" with this pistol and my Bushmaster!). He is about 5'6" and a buck-thirty soaking wet. He loves shooting it. Granted, the only other gun he's ever shot was a .357 mag.
Link Posted: 7/30/2008 6:18:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Usagi:
...HEAVY trigger pull...


FWIW, there is an extra spring you can remove from the sear group and a Wolff 10% reduced power firing pin spring you can buy to get your trigger pull down to a very manageable ~5-6 pounds.



Link Posted: 7/30/2008 6:37:15 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
height=8
Originally Posted By Usagi:
...HEAVY trigger pull...


FWIW, there is an extra spring you can remove from the sear group and a Wolff 10% reduced power firing pin spring you can buy to get your trigger pull down to a very manageable ~5-6 pounds.





Where would one find info on this? I've googled & googled to no avail. his

Any idea how to do the spring removal would be helpful... because by the time I pay a gunsmith to do that, and have adjustable sights put in so I can hit where the sights are ; and I might as well buy a Glock or something used in that price range for the same money.
Link Posted: 7/30/2008 10:00:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Usagi:

Originally Posted By kevins_garage:

Originally Posted By Usagi:
...HEAVY trigger pull...


FWIW, there is an extra spring you can remove from the sear group and a Wolff 10% reduced power firing pin spring you can buy to get your trigger pull down to a very manageable ~5-6 pounds.





Where would one find info on this? I've googled & googled to no avail. It's al;most like this trigger pull reduction has become the sasquatch monster - everybody's HEARD of it, just nobody has actually ever seen it!

Any idea how to do the spring removal would be helpful... because by the time I pay a gunsmith to do that, and have adjustable sights put in so I can hit where the sights are ; and I might as well buy a Glock or something used in that price range for the same money.


I don't know how long this link might be active as it is not my document -> Smith and Wesson Sigma Trigger Job from mini14jac at GlockTalk Forum.doc - This mod will basically reduce your trigger pull by ~50% from 10-12+ pounds down to 5-6 pounds.

You can get the reduced power Wolff striker spring from many places - retail is ~$5-6 - which drops almost a half pound off the trigger pull.

You shouldn't need adjustable sights to hit where you are aiming. The factory sights work pretty well for me and I can hit 6" steel plates and get good hits on IDPA targets out to 25 yards with them when using factory ammo or my reloads. If you really have a POA/POI problem, you might want to call S&W and see if they will just swap out front sights for you. IIRC, they have a few different heights available. The Sigma isn't a "target" gun, so I can't see any reason to buy adjustable sights for it. If you want a gun strictly for shooting targets easily, get a single action gun or a .22.
Link Posted: 7/30/2008 8:14:12 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By kevins_garage:

I don't know how long this link might be active as it is not my document -> Smith and Wesson Sigma Trigger Job from mini14jac at GlockTalk Forum.doc - This mod will basically reduce your trigger pull by ~50% from 10-12+ pounds down to 5-6 pounds.

You can get the reduced power Wolff striker spring from many places - retail is ~$5-6 - which drops almost a half pound off the trigger pull.

You shouldn't need adjustable sights to hit where you are aiming. The factory sights work pretty well for me and I can hit 6" steel plates and get good hits on IDPA targets out to 25 yards with them when using factory ammo or my reloads. If you really have a POA/POI problem, you might want to call S&W and see if they will just swap out front sights for you. IIRC, they have a few different heights available. The Sigma isn't a "target" gun, so I can't see any reason to buy adjustable sights for it. If you want a gun strictly for shooting targets easily, get a single action gun or a .22.


Thank you for the link. I have performed the operation (took less than 10 minutes) and the trigger is much lighter - just a little more than the revolver I own and have had measured at 7 lbs. Very manageable.

As for "shouldn't need adjustable sights" - I agree I shouldn't, but I do. I don't use the gun for targets - it is a CCW for me as well as home defense. I do go to the range regularly to stay sharp. I just have this little obsessive side that wants the gun to hit what the sights are pointed at! ht).

Note to any S&W employees that might read this site - you have a great company, a truly fabulous product, and a reputation second to none. Surprise us all and fix one of these little things. I promise the dividends will be well worth it!
Link Posted: 8/1/2008 5:06:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Usagi:
As for "shouldn't need adjustable sights" - I agree I shouldn't, but I do. I don't use the gun for targets - it is a CCW for me as well as home defense. I do go to the range regularly to stay sharp. I just have this little obsessive side that wants the gun to hit what the sights are pointed at! . Right now the one I have is fairly consistent - only 8" low. a simple adjustable sight (like the one that came included as standard on my .357) would completely eliminate the need for me to send the weapon back to S&W, purchase an additional sight, or purchase a Glock (which I will likely do anyways!).


Are you lining up over the center of the target (covering it) or using a 6" hold? What distance are you shooting at?

Both of my Sigmas are pretty much on out to 20 yards with several different types of ammo, even the really downloaded stuff I shoot through them for IDPA.

I still wouldn't waste the time or money on adjustables for a defense firearm. Just call S&W and tell them what is going on. They'll either have you send it in, or they may just send you a replacement front sight that is shorter.
Link Posted: 8/1/2008 7:21:22 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By kevins_garage:


Are you lining up over the center of the target (covering it) or using a 6" hold? What distance are you shooting at?

Both of my Sigmas are pretty much on out to 20 yards with several different types of ammo, even the really downloaded stuff I shoot through them for IDPA.

I still wouldn't waste the time or money on adjustables for a defense firearm. Just call S&W and tell them what is going on. They'll either have you send it in, or they may just send you a replacement front sight that is shorter.


Since I have no idea what a "6" hold" is, I cannot say whether I am doing that or not. I am lining the sights up, as pistol sights should be lined up - even spacing on both sides of the front sight and the front and rear lined up on top. The target sits just above that. I fire. The bullets hit 8" low at 10 feet. The bullets hit 8" low at 20 feet. The bullets hit 9" low at 45 feet.

If, at any of these ranges, I aim what I guess to be about 8" above what I want to hit - I can put bullets there all day. Problem is, when I line the pistol up that way, I cannot see exactly what I'm aiming at - my hands and the pistol block it from view. This is not desireable in a self defense situation. It is not desireable in a target application, either (most target shooters I know get upset when the bullet is an inch off - much less eight inches!)

S&W has offerd to ship it back and look at it. I just don't want to waste their money. They think the barrel might be off a bit. All that shipping and looking at it would be more expensive than if they switched to an adjustable sight (like they made on my S&W .357) for future models. I still to this day do not understand why any manufacturer would put fixed sights on anything - unless they sold adjustable sights separately and wanted to increase profit margins!

Looks like I might be going down to the range here pretty soon with a file in hand to solve this little problem. Now, what I would like is a little laser sight like Glock has that fits in the frame under the barrel. That would be sweet. Methinks, however, that S&W doesn't trust their QA methods enough to do that - it might point out how inaccurate some of their models really are!
Link Posted: 8/4/2008 6:22:26 AM EDT
That should have been "6 o'clock" hold - Sorry about that. I think of it as "pumpkin on the post" - line up your sights and then put the target circle right on top of your sight picture, rather than covering your target circle partially with your sight picture.

Some manufacturers (Springfield comes to mind) cover the different types of sight alignment and POA vs. POI depending on how you shoot in their owners/instruction manuals.

LaserMax used to make a replacement guide rod with laser in it for the Sigma, but I believe it was discontinued a year ago, maybe more.
Link Posted: 8/4/2008 6:27:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2008 6:28:44 AM EDT by HardShell]
Link Posted: 8/4/2008 7:19:09 PM EDT
I was going to buy one so, i went to a local range and rented one for $5.00 and shot a box of ammo. I'm gald I paid $5.00 to rent and did not buy one. I shot an XD SC along with the Sigma and with a shorter barrel the XD was dealy accurate and the Sigma was lucky to hit the target, and I'm a better than avg. shot. Buy a used XD or glock and you will be happier in the long run. the sigma have no re-sell value.
Link Posted: 8/5/2008 7:00:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2008 7:09:26 AM EDT by kevins_garage]

Originally Posted By jsmith15:
I was going to buy one so, i went to a local range and rented one for $5.00 and shot a box of ammo. I'm gald I paid $5.00 to rent and did not buy one. I shot an XD SC along with the Sigma and with a shorter barrel the XD was dealy accurate and the Sigma was lucky to hit the target, and I'm a better than avg. shot. Buy a used XD or glock and you will be happier in the long run. the sigma have no re-sell value.


Somehow I doubt the veracity of your claims and others like them. If anyone is truly a better than avg. shot, they should have the fundamental trigger control skills to shoot a Sigma and hit a target without "falling apart" at the mere sight of a Sigma.

I like to think I'm a better than avg. shooter myself (IDPA ~expert class) and I have no trouble shooting a Sigma and hitting targets. I can even hit 4-6" steel out to 25 yards with my Sigma - Oh my!

Am I better with a single action 1911 that has a 3.5 lb. trigger than I am with a stock Glock - hell yes - but a better than avg. shooter doesn't just "fall apart" when shooting a Sigma anymore than a better than avg. golfer would fall apart if they had to shoot a $100 set of clubs from Kmart instead of a $1000 set of Callaways, or a better than avg. baseball player would all of sudden come unglued if they had to use a $15 vinyl mitt instead of a $100+ leather mitt, or a race car driver would all of a sudden turn into a numb nuts and crash immediately upon getting into a Geo Metro and driving it on a surface street - well, I hope you get the picture. If not, rock on!


Link Posted: 8/5/2008 8:33:05 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
Somehow I doubt the veracity of your claims and others like them. If anyone is truly a better than avg. shot, they should have the fundamental trigger control skills to shoot a Sigma and hit a target without "falling apart" at the mere sight of a Sigma.




I'll agree with this. And I am unhappy with my Sigma.

I will say that it is entirely possible that someone is a good shot and the trigger pull on the Sigma affects their skill until a point when they develop the strength to overcome it.
Link Posted: 8/6/2008 9:56:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2008 5:59:08 AM EDT by Hawgleg44]
Anybody who is an average or above shot will NOT have a problem shooting the Sigma. Are there better guns? Yes. Would I choose a Sigma over other brands/models? Not many. But, back when I was issued a Sigma with no other choice but to carry it on duty, I didn't whine about it, I just shot it, and trained with it. I can hit a 14" steel plate between 5-10 times out of a 17 round mag at 100 yards sitting at a bench with no bags with my 9GVE and my cast bullet reloads. When my neighbor was training, I practiced the MA State Police STOP Teams qual cours. He shot his issued Sig P226, I shot my Sigma. Guess what....100%. He said he didn't see anyone at the qual do that with a Sig before.

If you can shoot a DA revolver, you can shoot a Sigma. I feel the Sigma is an inexpensive, reliable, and adequately accurate pistol for the money. That said, my Kimber Classic Stainless Target LE is on my hip now.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 5:23:38 AM EDT
the one I shot at an indoor range falt out sucked. terrible trigger and all over the target at 7 yards.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 6:02:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jsmith15:
the one I shot at an indoor range falt out sucked. terrible trigger and all over the target at 7 yards.


The Sigma is mechanically capable of 1-1.5 caliber sized groups at 7 yards, just like 99.9% of the other handguns out there. Anything larger is simply a matter of operator error. The Sigma's trigger doesn't lend itself to extremely accurate shooting, but on the qual course, it's still easy for most of the officers formerly issued Sigmas to shoot one ragged hole in the middle of the target after 50 rounds.
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