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Posted: 9/30/2011 8:19:32 PM EST
Have a friend who's a Marine and he might be interested in buying one for himself. Any idea the specs or price?
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 10:30:12 AM EST
I was not aware that Springfield offered this commercially. Marine or not, unless it's a unit purchase, it's still civilian.

The PC9111 is the Professional (Bureau) Model.

The PC9111MC was ordered by Marines to use in training while waiting on quantities of the PWS MEU(SOC) .45 and Kimber ICQB to become available for the use of Det. 1.

They have since been added to the circulation of 1911s issued to the MSOBs and FR units equipped with MEU(SOC) .45 / M45 CQCPs.

According to Pat Rogers, they were unsatisfactory at first, he felt that they were too tight. He also did not like the front strap checkering or the blended S&A magwell. Furthermore, once PWS got a hold of them, they milled FCS in them. There are some photos in the MEU(SOC) .45 thread.

IIRC, the PC9111MC was simply a standard Pro with a lanyard loop in the magwell/MSH, Pachmayr grips, and parkerized finish. Not sure on the finish, I've heard a rumor to that effect, but the photos of the well used Professional in the above-mentioned thread seem to indicate a well worn Black-T finish.

Either way, as far as I know, the PC9111MC cannot be ordered commercially, however, getting a standard Pro and adding a lanyard loop and Pachmayr grips will be essentially the same thing "as delivered" if not "as issued."

~Augee
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 12:09:58 PM EST
I have no idea if this is available commercially.

Kind of why I asked.

Yeah, I'd read the stories on how it was related to the Pro, didn't know the exact differences, thanks for that.

I've never heard of anyone ordering an MC either, I don't know if it is available. Made me curious. I would guess only Deb would know.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 2:15:42 PM EST
Interesting. Should be easy enough to order a Custom Carry with these specs, though it won't have the 'Professional' roll mark on the slide.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 3:51:57 PM EST
Yep, can get a custom carry pretty much however you want it. I already worked out my build with Deb, going to be waiting 10-12 months.

Link Posted: 10/3/2011 4:54:28 PM EST
A couple of older posts and photos from this thread:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_49/86667_The_MEU_SOC___45__ICQB__and_M45_Close_Quarters_Combat_Pistol___Updates_to_OP.html&page=1

dealing with the Springfield Custom Professional (PC9111) and PC9111MC in Marine Corps use.





150 were ordered initially as an interim solution pending the availability of the Kimber Det. 1 ICQB, which in and of itself was an interim solution until PWS could catch up to demand.

Initially, they were reported to be too tight, and were generally issued unaltered from the standard Professional besides the addition of the lanyard loop to the SA magwell.

It appears however, that they are currently still in active service, and there is photographic documentation of at least one Pro that has been modified with the addition of a S&A flat checkered MSH with lanyard loop, King's ambi-thumb safety, and the addition of front cocking serrations at PWS. I suspect that quite a few have been modified similarly in the last few years, and there is evidence that they are being fielded to combat units.



This photograph dated 22 AUG 2010 from Afghanistan appears to show a Professional, based on the S&A magwell coupled with the "Wilson-style" ambi safety, and distinctive Springfield "delta" hammer and "S&A-style" beavertail.

There is also overwhelming evidence that Springfield Armory is now supplying complete pistols, not just top ends to the MSOBs, most likely out of the custom shop. They appear to be almost identical in specs to the Professional, but with a parkerized finish, FCS, and lacking the magwell, recessed slide stop, and most likely the checkered front-strap (as they use Pachmayr grips), and have a "USMC" serial number prefix. No indication yet of whether they're being built with the Springfield standard .38 Super firing pin like (I suspect) the Professionals were, or if they've been custom spec'ed to use .45 ACP firing pins like the slides PWS was buying.

I have, however, seen a couple of recent photographs that clearly show "MSOB(SOC)MEU .45 ICQBP M45...." whatever the hell we're calling 'em nows with SA hammers, beavertails, and ambi-safeties (replacing C&S and Ed Brown parts as spec'ed in the Variant 5).

Worthy of note is that I've begun seeing this this year, while last year MARSYSCOM was seeking possible COTS pistols to supplement PWS pistols as USGI frame (from 1945) were beginning to wear out and PWS wad increasingly unable to keep up with the demand. Nothing yet seems to have cropped up indicating that such a COTS contract has been fulfilled, however they've been known (original purchase of SA Pros/Kimber ICQB) to spec and purchase commercial pistols on a small scale to fill urgent shortages. It's interesting, regardless, to see that a) MARSYSCOM and PWS seem to be quite happy with their continued relationship with Springfield Armory (slide purchases dating back to the early '90's at least, Springfield Pros, ect.) and b) that Kimber has not filled any further orders since the initial ICQB purchase.

The MC Operator may in fact be the closest COTS pistol to the MEU(SOC) .45 at the present time. Interesting as well that they continue to use standard dustcovers, again, since the ICQB and the discontinued Surefire IMPL, I've seen no real push to integrate a rail or a light into the M45 CQBP.

Like I said, eventually, one of these days I'll finish this, but both the SA Pros and this "SA Variant 6" will be in there, as well as the Kimber ICQB and the M45 CQBP.

In the meantime, a request- has anyone seen and/or can provide photographic documentation of the Kimber ICQB in use, both current, or with Det. 1? The only photographic documentation I've seen really is promotional and/or from the Pat Rogers article from several years back. I have not, however, seen any other photographs of them in use while numerous pictures of other variants of the MEU(SOC)/M45 continue to pop up, as well as the SA pistols. I realize that it's unlikely, given the small scale and secrecy of MARSOC Det. 1 that many public photographs exist of them in service, however, I'm having difficulty hunting down any positive indication that upon the dissolution of Det. 1, that the Kimbers continued to be used, whether by Recon or the MSOBs. I would imagine that they rolled back into the MSOBs when Det. 1 was reabsorbed, but I don't have any documentation. Given the small number of ICQBs, I don't expect them to be seen commonly, but I would think that there would be at least an inkling somewhere that they're still around, but so far, no photos, or even anecdotes of Kimbers still being in service.

Similarly, this being applied to the SA pistols, given the amount of documentation there is of them, one can assume that there's a fairly good number of them out there, more than I had initially suspected.

~Augee


It doesn't look like like too many changes were made to the Pro specs for the Marine buy, I think there was a rumor of some of them being parkerized, but the only evidence I've seen of that is a grainy scan from the Pat Rogers article on the Kimber ICQB, and it's inconclusive at best.

Other than that, it would seem the only thing that changed from the standard Pro from the factory was the addition of the lanyard loop and the change of grips, though PWS has done some work to at least some of them. That being said, whether it's a contract for fifty or one-hundred fifty, and if you the Marine Corps, and you ask Springfield to make some changes for your new SOF unit, I think they might give you a little bit more latitude in what changes they'll make to the Pro, versus if you or I were to call.

I'm thinking of trying to contact the Custom Shop, and see if I can dig any information out of them as well.

Side-note- Regrading the Millett sight, my understanding from Dave Berryhill is that the original MEU(SOC) .45s used a .213 front sight, because the rear sight was so tall, and they would be filed once installed. Either way, the Millett front sights for the 1911 have all been discontinued, unfortunately, though I've considered having some made that match the profile of the Millett front sight using a Novak covetail, just to make installation easier and make them more accessible. The old pre-Novak MEU(SOC) sights are pretty solid units, IMHO, pretty similar in look and function to the new 10-8 sights as well, though without a "U" notch.

I've also just got permission from SWThomas over at 1911forum.com to use his photos that he was able to take of some M45 CQBPs, they show a great deal of detail:





A couple of great pictures of a Pro that's been well used and obviously reworked- the Smith and Alexander magwell is missing, and it looks like it's been replaced with a PWS made serrated mainspring housing. King's Safety has been installed, and front cocking serrations milled in by PWS, and shredding the "Springfield Custom" logo. Hard to tell because of the finish if it has the recessed slide stop pin, but the slide stop definitely looks like a replacement part, it doesn't have the same profile as Springfield's factory units. Finish definitely looks like it was delivered in Black-T, and not parked, though. I wish we could see the serial number more clearly and try to contact SA and see when it was made.



Close-up of the PWS milled serrations, note they look different from Springfield's factory serrations.



Still using the original Nowlin barrel as well. With that being said, however, they have kept the factory hammer, and possibly the fire control parts, as well as the factory beavertail.





Good pictures of a Variant 2 pistol without FCS and a BarSto barrel, whether they're the same barrels available commercially, or a special Marine Corps barrel like some have reported, the markings on the barrel are identical to commercially available barrels. Note the stamping of the last four of the serial number as well. It's clearly built on a USGI frame with a checkered mag release and wears the older Pachmayrs without the medallions, but they look in pretty good, near new condition, possibly NOS bench stock.

Slide is the new style Springfield Armory with the logo at the front of the slide, and in fact looks to be in terrific condition compared to many photos of older variants. Not sure if it's been recently refinished, or recently re-built which may explain it.

And now to the real interesting ones:




A new variant, "Variant 6" which looks like a factory built Springfield Armory pistol. You can clearly see the "USMC" serial numbered slide with Springfield Armory markings. The slide is unlike anything offered on the commercial market, with factory narrow FCS in carbon steel, with Novak sights. The sights appear to be genuine Novak, and not Springfield Armory, unlike the parts number and parts listings that we have seen in the last few years. Also, it's difficult to determine whether they're night sights or standard black like on the Variant 4s, though the paint would seem to indicate not. I'm assuming for the time being that the Pros shipped with the standard night sights, and the Kimber ICQB was spec'd with night sights.



The barrel appears to be the standard Nowlin part installed in Springfield Custom pistols, and interestingly, unlike earlier variants, does not appear to have ever been blackened, nor has the bushing or barrel tip. Also, the barrel hood does not seem to be stamped with the last four of the serial number.

The ambi-safety is still the King's, but the hammer and beavertail are Springfield parts. Same thing with the mag release, classic SA MIM part, down to the seams, but the slide stop looks like a USGI replacement. The "fit and finish" looks very much like a Springfield Custom pistol as well, and the mainspring housing looks like an off the shelf checkered part, not the custom ground parts that PWS uses. Slide stop hole is clearly not recessed. Again, no way of knowing whether there's a .45 firing pin in there or a .38 Super, but generally speaking, it looks like something that you could (and I might ) order yourself from the Springfield Custom Shop. This plus the photos that are popping up of what are clearly Springfield "delta" hammers and "Wilson-style" ambi-safeties downrange on MSOB pistols leads me to believe that MARCORSYSCOM has purchased a quantity of these pistols and put them into circulation, again, no indication of whether this is an interim thing, or if they've found their supplier for a COTS "M45."

Also note that there's no rail, Dawson or otherwise, or any provision for a weapon mounted light. The use of pistol mounted lights on the 1911s seems to have ended, note that it doesn't seem (considering that the 1994 dated TM mentions it as well) that weapon mounted lights have ever been authorized for use on the MEU(SOC) .45 or "M45" CQBP, though the ICQB specified them, and the Surefire 310R and 610R were popular for a while. I haven't seen any recent photographs of any 1911s with lights mounted, and any of the non-railed frame lights available have all been discontinued anyways.

Another note, and I'll get into it more later, but "M45" is in quotes because though it may be the way it's being referred to, it does not appear to be an "official" type-classified name in the "M" series like M4, M9, M11, ect.

~Augee

Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:27:18 PM EST
That's awesome, thank you! Forwarded on to my friend. :) He'll be deployed in November, and is wanting something like this as a 'back from deployment' self gift. :)
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