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Posted: 10/20/2004 11:47:33 AM EST
I like that its an intermediate caliber, and quite effective, but I have some hangups over the .40.

They are more prone to KBs. Loaded to the edge like that, a FUBAR at the loading table or by the manufacturer can be bad news. A tenth inch of bullet setback will double pressure in some loads.

FWIW, my next handgun will probably be a 10mm.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:52:50 AM EST
I don't see a real 'need' for it. I like 9mm +P+ or if I need something bigger I carry a .45 which has less muzzle flip than a .40 I do like the .357SIG but for its reach and penetration. I can shoot POA/POI with my SIGPRO at 100yds and it has the same mag capacity as a .40. Most of the time I carry a .45
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:58:48 AM EST
I dropped all my .40s a few years back and went back to all 9s.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:00:16 PM EST
don't see the point. happy with my .45
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:02:07 PM EST
I got about everything else but.
If my house burnt down and I lost most of my guns and reloading stuff I might consider it,but as it is I just hate this 40 as it f***s me up when I get some mixed in with me 45 brass
If ya got 38,357,9,38super,45acp,44sp+44mag why would you ever think about 40 short and weak?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:17:00 PM EST
lack of fully supported case kept me away from glock .40s for years. did my research and became comfortable with the level of safety as long as factory loads are used.

i was carrying mostly glock 9s. i was taking a look at a beefy buddy ofmine in the 285 range and realized my corbons might fragment and stop before they'd reach any vitals. who wants a gun that only works on little people?

i love 10mm. i just don't like to carry it. g20s are great cop guns, but a pain in the ass to conceal. g29? i'll bet the shorter tube gives velocities in the .40 range. chrono #s anyone?

i'm believer in fragmenting bullets. don't get me wrong, i love 1911s, but i don't think they justify the weight or capacity penalty.

does .45 work better than .40? maybe. does it work "better" enough for me to give up 8 rds and 10 ounces? nope.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:28:24 PM EST
I'm kinda in a holding pattern on 40 cal. I've got three right now (HK USP40f, Sig P229, and Sig P239). I have to say I shoot better with 45 or nine, except for the HK. The recoil reducing double spring on the full-size HK does seem to help me. I am thinking about parting with the two Sigs, though. Just don't shoot as well with 40.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:49:13 PM EST
I'll break the pattern here. I LOVE my .40s!

I have a Sig 226, 229, 2340, Glock 27, HK USP40, 2 Walther P99s in 40, an XD 40 and an AR upper in .40!

I love the round, to me it's a perfect blend of the benefits of 9mm and 45. I have a couple of 9s and I have 4 .45s and I carry a 45 every day but I love the .40 for general shooting.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:54:03 PM EST
+1 (JTW2)
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 1:03:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By jtw2:
I love the round, to me it's a perfect blend of the benefits of 9mm and 45.



Thats the good thing about it. For my two bits, I think I'll go with 10mm, as I don't conceal anyway.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 1:06:36 PM EST
"Dislike" is a little strong - disinterested would be more appropriate in my case.

I own 80+ handguns, and exactly 1 (one) is a .40S&W - and I only bought it to see what the fuss was all about. My very best friend is a Montgomery PD Detective - he carried a .40 when he was a patrol officer, he carries one now, he carries one off-duty, and he loves them (I've shot all of his, of course). To each his own - I hear/read great things about them all the time...
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 1:42:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By HardShell:
"Dislike" is a little strong - disinterested would be more appropriate in my case.

I own 80+ handguns, and exactly 1 (one) is a .40S&W - and I only bought it to see what the fuss was all about. My very best friend is a Montgomery PD Detective - he carried a .40 when he was a patrol officer, he carries one now, he carries one off-duty, and he loves them (I've shot all of his, of course). To each his own - I hear/read great things about them all the time...



Link Posted: 10/20/2004 1:43:49 PM EST
I have owned a couple of 40's now. They all were good shooters. I carry and XD-40 now and love it. The 40 in the loads I like (155 and 165 gr) shoot a little flatter than a 45. Pack more rounds per mag.

As for Kabooms, that whole thing had more to do with the Glock chamber than anything else. The chambers in my Sigs and XD were all fully supported.

Don't get me wrong, I still stack my 45 up as my top choice for a pistol round. But I don't feel under gunned with a 40.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:16:52 PM EST
Nope, no dislike at all. Have 2 XD40's and plan on purchasing a third. I like the .40 for it's capacity and bullet weight (165 grain) and size of bullet expansion, so the .40 just encompasses the characteristics I want. Also I don't reload, I use factory ammo, the bullet doesn't seat as deep with the 165 vs the 180 grain and the XD has a fully supported chamber. All in all, a nice blend of capacity and power with no Kaboom.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:22:29 PM EST
+1

i really dont like the .40 sw

its stupid, and it sucks going up against obstacles(i.e. ANYTHING not soft!)

i'd go w/ a .45acp any day; recoil is nothing and its more reliable
9 mm is ok
not sure on the 10mm, but i havent heard anything bad about em, jsut a lot of recoil....
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:25:04 PM EST
9mm = Subcompact Concealed carry
.45 = All my other semi autos.

Sold my last .40 recently, still hanging onto a few rounds of ammo.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:30:11 PM EST
i love the .40 cal. My duty gun is an HK USP in .40 and i have 3 glocks chambered in .40. I like b/c it's the middle ground between power and speed. The ballistics are fantastic on a .40 too. Never had one problem with the round. Not too mention it's a little cheaper to shoot than .45acp. JMO


J
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:15:27 PM EST
Have no major complaints with my Glock 22(.40). Like the fact that the ammo is cheaper than my SA Loaded.

I actually find that it is easier to control than my Sig 228, probably due to the low bore axis on the Glock.

Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:32:24 PM EST
Jack:

I don't like it. 9mm has more capacity and is easier to shoot faster and with less recoil, muzzle flip and noise. If something bigger is needed...a .45 still recoils less than a .40 (at least felt recoil to me anyway). A 9mm+p and the best .40 rd are not that ballistically different to justify the snappy recoil and reduced capacity. I don't understand why an itermediat round was needed. If you are recoil sensitive..shoot a 9, if not, shoot a .45! I have never had a use or seen a use for the .40 YMMV
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:03:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:
i love the .40 cal. My duty gun is an HK USP in .40 and i have 3 glocks chambered in .40. I like b/c it's the middle ground between power and speed. The ballistics are fantastic on a .40 too. Never had one problem with the round. Not too mention it's a little cheaper to shoot than .45acp. JMO


J



Love my Steyr M40 even with its overly expensive magazines and funky triangle sights since it is the most natural point pistol I've ever handled. The .40S&W has been disparaged like the AR15 but how many of us have the 'mouse rifles'?

wganz

Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:09:45 PM EST
I have a newly purchased .40 cal that I bought strictly because I plan to apply for the FBI once I get my degree. They train with the glock 22 in .40. So I bought one from a coworker who was selling it. I dont like glock or .40 but I want to fool with it.

I personally dont see the need or want for .40. 9mm and 9mm +p have excellent stoping ability and low recoil. .45 is a very low pressure round, low speed round. Its saving grace is big weights and because of that will carry energy farther. Because of the low speed, low pressure of the .45 it has very little muzzle flip and percievable recoil in an arm of appropriate size.

If I'm going to get something else based on a cartridge the same diameter as .40 itll be 10mm or .357 sig. The .357 is a laser when it comes to auto pistol calibers. It hits hard and is a common 9mm size. Its high energy, high speed good terminal balistics.

10mm is just a powerhouse. Its high speed, high power and heavy weight. Its heavy recoil as a byproduct but thats understood.

I carry .45 most of the time but sometimes .380. Both of my carry guns are 1911s as that platform works well for me.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:12:49 PM EST
I shoot my 9mm's most of the time, but I carry a 40. I like both calibers very well.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:03:03 PM EST
I wish someone would do up .45 with pressures like 10mm has. I wonder what the pressures and balistics on the .50gi are.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:08:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 6:09:19 PM EST by jdovell]
I carry my 40 everyday and like it fine. Would I feel better with 45, no, 9mm, no. Its good enough like most pistol calibers. I also carry a 1911 in 9x23 sometimes as well. Does that make me wierd? All my buds shoot 40 so I do.(I reload for all of us.) If they all shot 9mm or 45 I would carry that. Seems perfectly suitable, even if unneeded. I also like Berettas so i might be different. A new XD in 40 is looking nice though.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:24:29 PM EST
LHD,

I suggest you use the rule of IPSC Power Factor.

Bullet weight in grains x velocity divided by 1,000 = Power Factor

Will give you a good idea of a rounds recoil. You can also factor in the pistol's weight.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:43:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2004 6:06:03 AM EST by cnatra]

Originally Posted By LHD:
I wish someone would do up .45 with pressures like 10mm has. I wonder what the pressures and balistics on the .50gi are.



.45acp +P loads are close

then theres the .45 Super !!

www.texas-ammo.com/45super.htm

www.realguns.com/loads/45Super.htm

www.m1911.org/ammo.htm

I have two .40S&W's & have decided I like my G19's & .45acp 1911's better .

One thing I don't like about the .40(besides the high pressures at which it operates & it's apparently inherent poor accuracy) is that it basicly killed the market for 10mm pistols.

Now that the AWB is over though I'm going to by a G20 !!
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 1:06:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By cnatra:

Originally Posted By LHD:
I wish someone would do up .45 with pressures like 10mm has. I wonder what the pressures and balistics on the .50gi are.



.45acp +P loads are close

then theres the .45 Super !!

www.texas-ammo.com/45super.htm

www.realguns.com/loads/45Super.htm

www.m1911.org/ammo.htm



Also the .400 CorBon pushing a 10mm bullet pretty fast too.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 1:10:17 AM EST
I have a 40., but I dont care for the gun in general.

Link Posted: 10/21/2004 1:37:39 AM EST
I use to carry a full size .45 for a long time. It's damn heavy. Got a Glock 23 and I almost don't know it's there. I've had 9mm's before, but.............................I've read too many articles over the years beating up on it as far as effectiveness.

I do have a Glock 17 strickly for Glock matches though.
I shoot full size 1911's in IDPA and 3-gun matches.
Got a G23 for CCW.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 3:32:45 AM EST
No need for 40's.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 5:04:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2004 5:08:22 AM EST by HardShell]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By HardShell:
...I own 80+ handguns...







FWIW (not that I should have to explain having a lot of guns ), I used to be a "kitchen table FFL" (you know, the ones the antis hate). When I "went out of business" (i.e., didn't have time for it anymore), I had a lot of stock left over.

I still manage to tell Mrs. HardShell that it was "an unintentional and unfortunate consequence of ending my side business" with a straight face.


ETA: And, of course, I have kept buying firearms since as well. I started 2004 with a stern resolve not to buy any more new guns this year that weren't 100% necessary - I've only bought 17 so far... and I'm going to a gun show this weekend...
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 5:13:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By gotm4:

Originally Posted By cnatra:

Originally Posted By LHD:
I wish someone would do up .45 with pressures like 10mm has. I wonder what the pressures and balistics on the .50gi are.



.45acp +P loads are close

then theres the .45 Super !!

www.texas-ammo.com/45super.htm

www.realguns.com/loads/45Super.htm

www.m1911.org/ammo.htm



Also the .400 CorBon pushing a 10mm bullet pretty fast too.



The .45 super is great but if it were in the same length .45acp brass it may have more chamberings. Is there a glock, sig, XD or HK chambered in it?

The .400 Cor-bon kicks ass. I'd love to get a barrel for it to try in my next 1911. My idea about the .45-10mm was so you could shoot 10mm pressure loads in the same barrel gun as normal .45 acp gun. Like .38-.357. Granted 230 grains would kick like a mule at those speeds, but how many people shoot .44 mag, .454 casull and .500 S&W. I think an auto in that power range would be very cool.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 5:33:55 AM EST
The .40S&W round makes a lot of sense for me:

1) I have confidence in its ability to save my life.

2) I get an acceptable compromise of carryability, concealability and mag capacity with my Glock 27.

3) Both cartridge and weapon are highly defensible in court due to widespread use by LE.

4) I shoot IPSC Limited division a lot; the .40S&W round makes major comfortably.

5) Brass is dirt cheap.

For me, the .40 is the ideal choice. As always, YMMV.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 5:53:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2004 6:01:58 AM EST by cnatra]

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By gotm4:

Originally Posted By cnatra:
Originally Posted By LHD:
I wish someone would do up .45 with pressures like 10mm has. I wonder what the pressures and balistics on the .50gi are.



.45acp +P loads are close

then theres the .45 Super !!
www.texas-ammo.com/45super.htm

The exterior dimensions of the 45 Super® case are identical to the 45 ACP. During the early development of cases for the 45 Super® by Ace Hindman, many different cases, most predominantly the old 451 Detonic's cases, were modified to function in the 45 Super® handguns. Through the work and development by Ace Hindman, the specifications necessary for the 45 Super® case to handle the increased pressures of the 45 Super were determined and standardized and ultimately resulting in the 45 Super® cases which are now commercially available from Starline Brass.

The new and stronger design of the 45 Super® case means that the velocities and power can be achieved by the 45 Super® that are far superior to that of the old 45 ACP. The 45 Super® delivers more energy on target than any factory 45 ACP ammunition.

Additionally, because the 45 Super® and the 45 ACP share the same external dimensions, the 45 Super system becomes the most versatile high power shooting system available today because anyone who has a firearm chambered for the 45 Super® can use standard 45 ACP ammunition (loaded to standard hardball levels or higher), and can then acquire magnum power simply by loading 45 Super® ammunition. Once a firearm has been modified:

- !!!! No barrels or other parts need to be changed !!!! -
No other shooting system offers such versatility with so little effort. There may be other 45 automatic cartridges with more power than the 45 Super®, but all of these cartridges require either much larger and heavier guns, or heavily compensated guns, both impractical or uncomfortable to carry and use for hunting or self defense -- and none of these systems give the added versatility of also being able to shoot standard 45 ACP ammunition. The versatility of the 45 Super® makes the 45 Super® the only practical 45 caliber automatic handgun that produces true magnum power.

Converting Exiting 45 ACP Handguns to 45 Super®
Ace Custom 45's offers conversion on not only for the 1911 style handguns, but also for the Smith & Wesson Model 4506 and has now developed and refined a conversion system for the Glock Model 21. 45 Super® conversions are also available from .Robar Industries on the 1911 style handguns as well as the Glock Model 21.

SAFETY CONCERNS
With the dimensions of the 45 Super® and the 45 ACP being identical, one of the most frequently asked questions is what will happen if a 45 Super® Cartridge is fired in a gun that has not been converted to handle this hot cartridge. Although malfunctions and damages as described in the following paragraph can be expected, because the 45 Super® case is designed to handle the high pressures it generates in the unsupported action of the 1911 style handgun, the case itself should not rupture unless there is a defect in the firearm.

Because 45 ACP automatics are generally designed to handle and function with the pressures and velocities of the currently manufactured and available standard 45 ACP ammunition, the additional pressure and velocities generated by the 45 Super® will cause malfunctions resulting from those firearms functioning beyond their designed specifications. The shooter should expect such malfunctions as: (1) failing to feed ammunition properly; (2) frequent jams; (3) pierced primers; and (4) possible failures in the structural design of the firearm. This list is not exhaustive, and other problems and dangers can and will occur.
Because firearms manufactured for the 45 ACP only and are not manufactured for the 45 Super® and its increased pressure and velocities, Texas Ammunition Company advises all customers not to use 45 Super® ammunition in any firearm that is not specifically manufactured or converted for the 45 Super® cartridge.
45 Super® is the trademark of Ace Custom 45's, Inc.



The .45 super is great but if it were in the same length .45acp brass it may have more chamberings. Is there a glock, sig, XD or HK chambered in it?



The .45 Super is the same length as .45acp , a standard 1911 with a couple minor mods can
shoot the .45 super & I've seen a guy shoot .45 super in his Glock 21 & full size HK USP.
The difference in the case is the interior thickness of the brass at the base to allow for higher pressures.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 6:31:15 AM EST
Oh well shit. I was under the impression that .45 super was 3mm longer than acp. What kind of mods do you need to shoot it? I see a project in my immediate future.


Link Posted: 10/21/2004 9:03:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By LHD:
Oh well shit. I was under the impression that .45 super was 3mm longer than acp. What kind of mods do you need to shoot it? I see a project in my immediate future.





hell, some nutcase told me it was just a recoil spring change away. only thing that kept it from being just a +p+ load was the huge amount of old 1911s out there.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 9:25:33 AM EST
Go on over to WWW.1911forum.com and do a search on the 45 super. There was some data in the reoloading section a while back too.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 9:41:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By LHD:
Oh well shit. I was under the impression that .45 super was 3mm longer than acp. What kind of mods do you need to shoot it? I see a project in my immediate future.





Thats Rowland or something, IIRC. The only guns that can shoot. .45 Super stock are certain Springfields in that caliber and the USP45.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 11:01:02 AM EST
I'm there dude.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 4:50:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 5:11:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 6:40:13 PM EST
I have owned a couple 40s and I enjoyed them. I think the .40 is a good middle ground, and while it is a "snappy" round and may not be for everyone, I think its a great general purpose and/or LEO round.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 6:59:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:05:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:21:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
I used to feel the same way as a lot of you, that the .40 was a compromise caliber. I guess it was when I started shooting steel targets in competition that my interest in .40 increased. The 9mms just couldn't be counted on to reliably knock the targets down, where the .40 did it with no problem. On the subject of safety and kb!s, I will say I don't like the 180 grain rounds, they are just a little too close to the margin of safety for me. But since I got rid of my Glock 23 I don't have any safety concerns anymore.

I still like the 9mms and have a bunch of them but I don't really carry them anymore. They have been relegated to plinking status for the most part, along with the occasional competition.

I have an XD-40 on nightstand duty, and usually have a Beretta 96 compact with me for CCW when I don't carry my .45 Commander.

I like 10mm too, and would carry mine more if it didn't have a full sized steel frame. I don't shoot it too much because I hate chasing the brass for it :)




What do you compete in? What kind of targets are you knocking down? I've heard problems with 9mm knocking down certain reactive targets. In all my years of shooting pepper poppers and such I've never had such a problem. Just curious as to which ones dont always go over.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 9:15:47 AM EST
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000581
"Service Pistol Calibers" by DocGKR.

His points:
None of these rounds are "big enough".
Size of the pistol is a big deal to some users.
Get a gun you like and shoot good ammo.

I just find that the middle ground does nothing for me. 40 in tiny pistols is too big, in big pistols it's too small.

Mind you, I see the 9mm as a .380 ACP +P+, but good bullets are good bullets, regardless of caliber.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:38:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:27:42 PM EST
Anyone hear know anything about the .45 AGP. I know SA sells the XD chambered for it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:30:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By --bullseye--:
Anyone hear know anything about the .45 AGP...



Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:34:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By --bullseye--:
Anyone hear know anything about the .45 AGP. I know SA sells the XD chambered for it.



The .45 GAP is glocks baby. Its 3mm shorter than .45 acp so they can chamber smaller framed pistols in it. Its supposed to have about .45 acp power give or take a little.

I have no need for it. since all the pistols I shoot were originally chambered in .45 acp.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:06:45 PM EST
I love my USP Expert, but I hate it's .40 caliber. I keep meaning to trade it in for a 9mm, but something comes up every time I seem to have any extra cash laying around. I just didn't care for the snappy recoil characteristics. I find myself shooting my .45 Match and 9mm USP a lot more. I like to shoot a lot. I have a variety of 1911s as well as my USP, so I buy a lot of .45. I love the Walmart Valpack 9mm, so I buy a lot of that as well. I don't carry the Expert, and the ammo is not cheap enough to justify buying a box every trip to the range, so it mostly just sits there.
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