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Posted: 10/31/2006 4:19:56 AM EST

The requirements:




REQUEST FOR INFORMATION
AIR FORCE HANDGUN

Responses Requested By November 14, 2006

The United States Air Force is seeking information from prospective commercial suppliers for a new Air Force Handgun.

FAR 52.215-3, Request for Information or Solicitation for Planning Purposes (Oct 1997) applies to this request for information.
(a) The Government does not intend to award a contract on the basis of this solicitation or to otherwise pay for the information solicited except as provided in subsection 31.205-18 Bid and Proposal (B&P) Costs, of Federal Acquisition Regulation

(b) Although "proposal" and "offeror" are used in this Request for Information, your response will be treated as information only. It shall not be used as a proposal

(c) This solicitation is issued for the purpose of planning and budgetary forecasting by the government.

Objectives

We are seeking this information for a new handgun with improved capability as compared to the current M9 pistol. Our objectives are as follows:
• Weapon must be reliable in sand and dirt and have closed slide design
• Magazines must be reliable and durable in sand and dirt
• Weapon must be ergonomic and should have variable grip sizes
• Weapon must have capability to be configured for night aiming
• Weapon must have an integrated interface such as a MILSTD 1913 rail
• Weapon must be chambered for a round that provides an increased permanent wound channel diameter over 9X19mm NATO round and at least 12 inches penetration in human flesh when firing ball ammunition.

Performan­ce Parameters

DESIRED Performance Parameters for the new handgun are as follows:

Characteristic Performance Parameters

Caliber Must be chambered for round that has increased permanent wound channel diameter in human flesh over current M9 pistol and at least 12 inches penetration when firing ball ammunition. Preferred calibers are .40 S&W or .45 ACP as these munitions are currently available within DoD or will be available in short-term.

Action Action may be Double-Action/Single-Action (DA/SA), Double-Action Only (DAO) or Striker Fired Action (SFA). Various/changeable configurations are desirable

Operation Semi-automatic, magazine fed and closed slide.

Size/Variations System should include standard and compact versions.

Weight Should weigh less than current M9 pistol (33.86 oz w/empty magazine and 40.89 oz with fully loaded magazine..

Safety Pistol should have appropriate safety mechanisms that prevent accidental firing of cartridges. Operator must be capable of activating/deactivating safety mechanism without shifting firing grip. Pistol must be capable of withstanding an impact when dropped on a hard surface from a height of 1.2 meters without accidental discharge or degradation of function or safety. (Damage to, or movement of sights is permissible)

Magazine Release Left or right (ambidextrous) magazine release changeable by user is desired.

Ergonomic Enhancements Should incorporate modular grip adjustment system to provide enhanced ergonomics for wide range of operators.

Accuracy - Must meet or exceed accuracy specifications as follows.

Center of Impact: The average center of impact for ten, 10-round shot groups fired from a weapon at 50 meters shall not be more than 10 centimeters radially from the point of aim. Dispersion: The mean radius for ten, 10-round shot groups at 50 meters shall not be more than 3 centimeters greater that that for the same ammunition when fired from the standard proof barrel.

Sound Suppressor Should be adaptable to accept installation of sound suppressor and sights must be accessible with suppressor installed on barrel.

Sights Sights must provide rapid day/night target acquisition and must be optimized for snag-resistant rapid deployment from a holster. Sights must be replaceable at organizational level. Sights must be fixed, but drift-adjustable for windage. Self-illuminating sights for low light situations without ambient or external light source “charging” should be available.

Rail System should include a common integral interface such as 1913 MILSTD rail for attachment of accessories. Rail may be located at either top or bottom.

Magazine Capacity Must have magazine of no less than 10 round capacity for full size version that will minimize snag hazard when inserted in the magazine well. Compact version must have magazine of no less than 8 round capacity

Surface Finish Surface finish must be non-reflective, resistant to peeling, flaking, and chipping and require minimum of operator preventive maintenance.

Internal coatings should be lubricious/low friction mitigating use of lubricants. Non-metallic components must be fungus and battlefield chemical resistant. Materials and coatings must protect pistol from degradation in all climates and geographical areas including maritime, coastal, desert, tropical jungle, arctic, urban areas and mountain environments. Materials and coatings must minimize attraction of dust and contamination. Pistol and its component parts and accessories must be corrosion resistant and should be corrosion proof.

Lubrication Must not create any new lubrication requirements over existing systems

Worldwide Operation Weapon system, to include ancillary accessories provided by the manufacturer, must operate effectively in all climates and geographical areas, including, swamp, tundra, grasslands, forest, jungle, urban areas, maritime, riverine and alpine/mountainous environments. Pistol must operate at high and low temperature extremes, as well as other hostile (ice/rain/sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf/salt fog) environmental conditions.

System Configuration System (kit) should include a Pistol, holster, magazine pouches, 10 magazines, cleaning kit, and an operator’s manual.

Holsters/magazine pouches readily available on the market.

Maintenance Support Spare parts, any special tools needed for depot repair and inspection gauges should be readily available.

Information Requested from Industry

The following information is being sought by USAF from prospective commercial sources that will assist USAF in considering and defining a new handgun as follows:

• Each kit should include a Pistol, holster, 10 magazines, cleaning kit, and an operator’s manual
o Also included should be an Initial fielding spare parts package to include required inspection gages (total system fielding approach)
• Our estimated buy quantity is for 100,000 pistols over a five year time frame
o Your response should indicate the estimated contractor production rate (maximum monthly production capacity)
o Response to include estimated pricing data for the kit and spare parts package identified above; quantities at which significant price breaks occur should be identified.
o Response should include information on the manufacturer’s standard commercial warranty
• Response should indicate manufacturers recommended spare parts package based on rounds fired
• Response should indicate projected life expectancy data

I wonder if this will end up like the JCPO?
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:26:08 AM EST
HK45.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:32:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 4:34:01 AM EST by Black-Tiger]


Like Duh!
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:48:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 5:23:56 AM EST by extra_ammo]
Pretty much gonna boil down to Glock, Sig, HK....

I doubt Ruger will get this contract. Sure, they build reliable pistols that can take a beating, but, personally, I hate their safety and they're a lot heavier than their peers.

S&W might be able to get something in the running, with the M&P (variable grips).

eta - Kahr and Kel-Tec - both fine companies, but I doubt they'll get the contract.

Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:53:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 4:53:59 AM EST by Backstop]
The "variable grip sizes" is gonna throw many manufs out of the running.

They should just ignore that requirement, and go with the 220R (I think that's the rail desig).
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:57:37 AM EST
Notice that the AF also was the first to adopt the M16 platform. I guess it'll get the ball rolling on a pistol now as well.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:01:28 AM EST
Does "variable grip sizes" remove HK USP from the running? Those always feel too big in my small hands, but my 1911 feels perfect. (I know 1911 is SA only and does not fit the specs of this application)
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:15:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 5:16:56 AM EST by Rocklock]

Originally Posted By Backstop:
The "variable grip size" is gonna throw many manufs out of the running.

They should just ignore that requirement, and go with the 220R (I think that's the rail desig).


Yea thats what grabed my eye .

I'd vote for a CZ design .40 .

Why in the hell didnt they spec Ambi saftey !
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:17:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 5:17:34 AM EST by Mr45auto]

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By Backstop:
The "variable grip size" is gonna throw many manufs out of the running.

They should just ignore that requirement, and go with the 220R (I think that's the rail desig).


Yea thats what grabed my eye .

I'd vote for a CZ design .40 .

Why in the hell didnt they spec Ambi saftey !


Cause lefties are defective and dont get pistols
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:18:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Backstop:
They should just ignore that requirement, and go with the 220R (I think that's the rail desig).


FWIW, AFOSI carries mostly Sig's.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:27:42 AM EST
Don't know if its the same on the firearms side of gov't procurement but on the aircraft side, requests for information (RFI) are generally just fishing to see whats on the market. It may or may not progress into a new procurement depending on if they see something like in the information submitted.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:44:28 AM EST
Sounds like they wrote a request for quote on the S&W M&P
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:14:03 AM EST
FNP-45. Reliable, ergonomic, interchangeable back straps, SAO or DA/SA, and 14+1 shots of .45 ACP goodness.


Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Notice that the AF also was the first to adopt the M16 platform. I guess it'll get the ball rolling on a pistol now as well.


No shit. The AF is always the first kid on the block with the cool shit.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:38:54 AM EST
Interesting that the last 2 of these I read the agency had a "restrike" requirement and a leaned toward manual type safetys, effectively knocking Glock and some others out of the running. Maybe somebodys wising up
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 6:52:55 AM EST
HK P2000 in .40 S&W ?
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 8:19:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By Backstop:
The "variable grip size" is gonna throw many manufs out of the running.

They should just ignore that requirement, and go with the 220R (I think that's the rail desig).


Yea thats what grabed my eye .

I'd vote for a CZ design .40 .

Why in the hell didnt they spec Ambi saftey !


Cause lefties are defective and dont get pistols


Oh, SNAP!
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 8:57:19 AM EST
HK45 seems to fit the bill perfectly....
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 9:03:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 9:11:56 AM EST
I bet they are going to yank this just like half of the RFPs they put out there. Hope they don't though, I want an HK45!
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 9:13:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Backstop:
The "variable grip sizes" is gonna throw many manufs out of the running.

They should just ignore that requirement, and go with the 220R (I think that's the rail desig).


Beretta PX4 has this.

PX4 in 45?
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 9:18:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
HK45 seems to fit the bill perfectly....


Yup.

The "various and changeable configurations desired" phrase is a BIG clue...

And as for the Air Force getting stuff first, it was an Air Force RFP that resulted in the M9; the army had already decided against a new pistol, but was forced into it by Congress.

In the 70s, the Air Force was VERY unhappy with the performance of the 130gr ball round they were using in their S&W M-15 revolvers; after several really heinous failures, they were getting desperate. The Air Force "trials" at Hurlburt Field formed the basis for the Joint Service Small Arms Procurement program that eventually produced the M9, after Congress was aroused and cut off funding for .45 ammunition procurement. THAT is what forced the army off the dime.

Looks like they are now unhappy with the 9mm. But ya gotta wonder... is this a legitimate deal, or an ingenious end-run by DoD?????

.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 12:20:12 PM EST
Not happening any time soon.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 12:56:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Curare:
Not happening any time soon.


And we know this how?
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 1:04:48 PM EST
Hmmm. SOCOM wants a 45, the ARMY wants a 45, the Air Force wants a 40 or 45.

Anyone else see a pattern here?
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 1:27:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
Hmmm. SOCOM wants a 45, the ARMY wants a 45, the Air Force wants a 40 or 45.

Anyone else see a pattern here?


Unfortunately, both the Army and USSOCOM canceled their respective .45 ACP pistol solicitations.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 2:34:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 2:37:17 PM EST by trwoprod]

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
Hmmm. SOCOM wants a 45, the ARMY wants a 45, the Air Force wants a 40 or 45.

Anyone else see a pattern here?


Sure. What they really need is a .41 Magnum loaded lightly because everyone needs a .41 Magnum loaded lightly, hence the 10mm AUTO and the .40 S&W, which even Jeff Cooper was OK with (obviously, in the case of the 10mm). What they could have is a 10mm-like .40 S&W (200 grains at close to 1200 fps) which is possible with the better powders we have today. That would give you high capacity, good sectional density, and more effectiveness than a 9x19. Sure would be nice to have a .40 S&W grease gun getting 1500 fps out of an 8" barrel with 200 grain bullets, wouldn't it?

It sure would be nice if Ruger would make a pistol that could meet all of these needs. Rugers seem to run forever.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 3:52:28 PM EST
im glad they didnt specify fde. unless i missed it.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:02:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:02:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By LSP972:

Originally Posted By Curare:
Not happening any time soon.


And we know this how?


I could think of a few dozen things the US war machine needs before a new sidearm. A new pistol program is lacking two important things: necessity and funding.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 3:07:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Curare:

Originally Posted By LSP972:

Originally Posted By Curare:
Not happening any time soon.


And we know this how?


I could think of a few dozen things...


Ah... so. You're speculating....

Like the rest of us.

.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 5:30:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Curare:
I could think of a few dozen things the US war machine needs before a new sidearm. A
new pistol program is lacking two important things: necessity and funding.


Well the air force is already getting rid of an assload of people to fund new planes. get rid of a few more and we could all be carrying suppressed H&Ks.
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