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Posted: 9/4/2005 5:10:08 PM EDT
Hello one and all . .

need an opinion please . . .

Ohio went "shall issue" in April of 2004 and my most often "carry gun" has been either a Glock 19 or 26 -- both loaded with Remington GS 124+P HP's.    Both are very easy to control, reliable, and light-weight.  

Lately I've been thinking up "up-grading" my carry gun, to a Glock 23, in 40 S&W caliber.  Since winter is shortly on it's way, concealment will not be much of an issue for the G-23.  

So . . . .  should I "up-grade" of just continue to carry what I have ? ?   Doubt I'll sell my G-19 -- I really like it ! !  -- as new Glocks around here are around $475.  And if I do "up-grade" I can use the same holster and mag carrier.  

So . . .  any opinions on what I should do ? ? ?  Will the 40 S&W really be that much better than the 9mm+P ? ?

Thanks  ! !
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 5:41:07 PM EDT
Oh man...... not the 9mm VS _______ (fill in blank)


Well, 'traditional dogma' went along the ways..... '40 people wanted something more powerfull then 9mm, but didn't want the 45'......     Also, 40 was developed because of the 'downloaded 10mm' loads that were developed....so they say

If there is a range that rents a 40 SW in the Glock model you are thinking of, go and try it out.  See how you can shoot w/ it vs your 9mm.  Power of the round means NOTHING if you can not hit the target.  Agree?  I don't mean to question your ability.... just stating what I think.

For winter use, I suggest a FMJ round.  It's been shown that some hollow points tend to get full of cloths when shot through them.  In a 9mm, I suggest 115gr FMJ and in 40, go w/ 155 or 165gr.  I picked up some of those FMJ w/ the polymer tip (expands when hitting hard surface).

The recoil of a G27 isn't that bad and I was using 155/165 rounds at the range.  I could put the whole mag in the 9 ring of the B27 target (man sized) slow fire.  Rapid fire, a little wider....

Another thing is, if you have a 40 SW, you can change barrel and get the 357 Sig.... if you want.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 5:54:05 PM EDT
anyone happen to have the AGNTSA pic?

Asking which caliber is best is like asking about Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge.  You'll get answers based on our personal opinions, when the only opinion that matters is your own.

Ask yourself 3 questions:  Are you comfortable with the 9mm?  Can you hit what you aim at with the 9mm?  Why do you want to upgrade?  You should carry what you have confidence in, and nothing less.

There was a post here about a month ago that showed 9, 40, 357Sig and 45ACP fired into ballistic gel......surprisingly, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between the bunch--all penetrated to about the same depth and all had about the same wound channel.

IMHO, you'd be getting .02" bigger entrance wounds, more recoil and sacrificing 2 or more rounds capacity by moving to the 40.  Your call on what's important.



btw---only pussies carry anything less than a By-God-JMB designed-.45ACP   (<---JK!  seriously, I wouldn't feel undergunned at all with a 9mm w/modern JHP loads.)
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 6:26:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 6:32:10 PM EDT by anomad]
You'll be light years ahead investing the money you would spend on a new piece in professional training and ammo!

That said, a .40 will launch a 180gr bullet with 475ft/lbs of energy where a 9mm will launch a 124gr bullet at 400ish ft/lb.  Some argue that a heavier bullet with more expansion is better suited to a place like Alaska where bad guys will more than likely be wearing a few layers of clothes a good part of the year.

Edit to add:
If you want something with more power for occasional carry get a .357 wheelie with a 4+ inch barrel.  It will launch the same 124gr bullet with about 700ft/lbs!
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 7:24:58 PM EDT
If I am not mistaken, the 9 and 40 are the same frame width since they interchange in holsters.

I can't say for sure and didn't bother to check Glock's site, but I have seen plenty of 40 to 9 caliber switches at work.

Go shoot the gun you are looking at.....if you like it, buy it and carry it.

Caliber is personal preference.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:50:16 PM EDT
I made the switch from 9mm to .40S&W a few years ago.
First thing I noticed....I wasnt as accurate with my .40 guns as I had been with my 9MM guns....at first that really bummed me out, but after practice and getting accustomed to a different powder charge, I can hit what I want again.

Try a few things out before you settle on a caliber...
my advice...choose whatever you are most accurate with...

If you can shoot 2 inch double taps with a 9mm, but cant barely 'wing' a silloutte with the .40, that extra powder and grain weight wont mean a thing
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 12:05:05 AM EDT
i love my .40
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 1:09:39 AM EDT
I own a Glock 23 and am pretty happy with it but as was stated earlier a conversion barrel can be bought to switch to 9mm however you cannot switch a 9mm to a .40sw but if you go with the forty and dont like it sell the barrel in the EE and use that money to buy the 9mm conversion barrel hope that helps. l8ter
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 10:13:53 AM EDT
There's no apprecable difference in the terminal ballistics of any of the major service calibers.  Baasically you're loosing two rounds for the ability to say "i'm the only one in this room professional enough to carry a glock .40"
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 2:56:58 PM EDT
The .40 Golck will blow UP!  Seriously, I think you should carry what you want, but...

I'd recommend keeping the 9mm and using the money to pay for some quality training.  It would be a much better use of funds, and you can always transfer the training later one to a .40 if you feel you need to.

You'll be FAR more likely to survive any encounter that you need a gun in with better training than a bigger bullet.

If you feel a need to upgun because of a preceived increased threat, then that's just the more reason to get quality training.

Training is where it's at.  That's been proven on the battlefield.  It doesn't matter what you carry as long as it's a decent gun (and your's is better than most).  What matters is how well you use it.  A training class will make a difference in your ability to survive.  A .40 might not.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 4:03:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ross:
I'd recommend keeping the 9mm and using the money to pay for some quality training.  It would be a much better use of funds, and you can always transfer the training later one to a .40 if you feel you need to.

You'll be FAR more likely to survive any encounter that you need a gun in with better training than a bigger bullet.

If you feel a need to upgun because of a preceived increased threat, then that's just the more reason to get quality training.

Training is where it's at.  That's been proven on the battlefield.  It doesn't matter what you carry as long as it's a decent gun (and your's is better than most).  What matters is how well you use it.  A training class will make a difference in your ability to survive.  A .40 might not.



+1
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 5:09:26 PM EDT
I love my .40 XD's. I think you should take a look at them before you buy. i wont buy a Glock after shooting my XD's
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 10:34:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kgpcr4:
I love my .40 XD's. I think you should take a look at them before you buy. i wont buy a Glock after shooting my XD's



Funny, I won't buy an XD after shooting my Glocks.Seriously, I have 9's and 40's, some difference but if you like what you have, then stick with it. If your looking for an excuse to buy a new gun, then yes, you need a 40.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 2:17:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2005 2:19:24 PM EDT by mo4040]
I started out w/ a 9mm, then went to 40 S&W. I was going from a 9mm P228 to a 40 cal P229. Given essentially same-sized pistols (P228 and P229), the 40 is a harder recoiling than 9mm. My ability to consistently get accurate hits out to 15 yards was degraded. I have subsequently improved my marksmanship, but, the 40 does beat up my hands.

Irrespective of caliber, if you can hit center-of-mass consistently out to 15 yards, you should be good to go. If you are good w/ 9mm, do not feel obligated to move up to 40 or 45 caliber. The most important thing is SHOT PLACEMENT.

As a matter of course, I am looking to go back to 9mm for daily carry. If I decide to stick to 40, I will carry a larger pistol (P226).
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:47:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 12:48:17 PM EDT by bob71]
I think if its between 9mm and .40s&w you should pick 45acp thats just me

.45 is the king of carry
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:52:31 PM EDT

For winter use, I suggest a FMJ round. It's been shown that some hollow points tend to get full of cloths when shot through them.

FWIW, if the HP gets plugged up it will act just like the FMJ, so you might as well stick with the HP for carry purposes.  No real loss, lots of potential gain.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 6:12:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 6:12:50 AM EDT by clubsoda22]
also it's really not true anymore.  Seen gel tests of gold dots and rangers against heavy winter clothing?  the vast majority of the time they still open up.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 6:21:43 AM EDT
I have a XD40 with a 9mm conversion barrel.  Both is good
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 8:56:16 AM EDT
BankerBilly,  i own a glock 23 that you are welcome to test drive.   Where are you at in Ohio?  I'm waiting on my CCW to process and it is what i will carry.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 9:49:51 AM EDT
Most important criteria for carry caliber:

1) shot placement
2) shot placement
3) shot placement
4) shot placement
....

Somewhere around number 23 is where you find the difference in caliber.  

Remember, a hit with a 22 is better than a miss with a 44.  If you're better with a 9mm, stick with that.  The negligable difference in hit power with a .40 isn't worth the sacrifice if it's harder for you to control/follow up with.


Link Posted: 9/27/2005 12:04:00 PM EDT
with the way JHPs are nowadays, I don't see any reason to switch from a 9mm to .40. The size doesn't make much of a difference in the tests. If you are comfortable with the 9mm, stick with it and do what the others have said about getting some good training under your belt. Caliber doesn't stop a person, placement does.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 12:20:44 PM EDT
Glock 19 = greatest handgun ever produced.



Don't waste your money, you've already got what you need.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 12:41:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 52brandon:
with the way JHPs are nowadays, I don't see any reason to switch from a 9mm to .40. The size doesn't make much of a difference in the tests. If you are comfortable with the 9mm, stick with it and do what the others have said about getting some good training under your belt. Caliber doesn't stop a person, placement does.



This is correct.  The popularity of .40 S&W with the police came at a time when the shallow penetrating 115gr +P+ was the hot round for 9mm and before 147's were the reliable expanders they are today.

Modern 147 gr 9mm's will do everything a 40 can.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 8:36:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
Glock 19 = greatest handgun ever produced.



You musyt have low expectations
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 6:20:18 PM EDT
Stick with 9 and spend that money on ammo and training. 40 is alot more expensive to shoot than 9 and the BG will never know the difference, I promise.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:33:26 AM EDT
If money is your limiting factor of how much practice and training you do, then most folks are better off spending the money on practice ammo and quality training.  If time is the limiting factor on your training and practice, or if you already are putting in 1000-2000 rounds per year in practice ammo PLUS one or two training courses, then you might be well served to move up to the .40 S&W.  

Michael Courtney
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 7:01:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RDP:

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
Glock 19 = greatest handgun ever produced.



You musyt have low expectations



If your minimum expectations are for a reliable, affordable, combat-ready-out-of-the-box gun that has been long tested and proved worthy- Then few handguns will do.  

I have the expectation that a low number of guns will fit that bill.  The G19 is definately one of them.

Tex78
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 7:04:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Stick with 9 and spend that money on ammo and training. 40 is alot more expensive to shoot than 9 and the BG will never know the difference, I promise.



$500-$600 will buy a LOT of training ammo!
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 10:40:17 PM EDT
just my .02 and it may have been posted already but I didn't read all the posts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

bullet placement is more important than caliber (granted your not carring a .22)


good hits from a smaller caliber(9mm,.380,.32) would be more effective than bad hits from a large caliber(.40,.357,.45 whatever)

so my suggestion would be to find the biggest caliber YOU are comfortable with  AND accurate with and stick with that year round.

and like it was said in a earlier post I did read,,,, the cost of a new .40 would buy alot of ammo,range time and training.
but by all means if you want to buy a new weapon ,,,well,,,, you can never have to manypersonally a carry a .40 at the moment and have carried a 9mm in the past.  either way I'm comfortable with either, makes no differance to me.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 4:24:20 AM EDT
The best solution for 9mm vs 40 is to have the same type of gun in each of them!  Then get the 45, 357 sig,  380, 32 and 22 of the same type and your set!  
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 4:27:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:
"i'm the only one in this room professional enough to carry a glock .40"




Where have I heard that one before?  Hmm...
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 4:32:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:
There's no apprecable difference in the terminal ballistics of any of the major service calibers.  Baasically you're loosing two rounds for the ability to say "i'm the only one in this room professional enough to carry a glock .40"



Well said.

Ammo is like tickets in an arcade - the more you have, the longer you can play.

Here's what Marshall said about it:

"In my opinion, it doesn't make much difference whether you select a 9mm, .40 caliber, a .357 caliber, or a .45 caliber as long a you use the proper ammunition. Any weapon of these calibers is adequate for law enforcement use. My advice is to select a weapon that you can fire most accurately given the different size, weights, and recoil of each weapon. I think the data I have provided makes that point very clear. I also urge you to buy a weapon that is safe to handle in our rough and tumble world and can be stored at home without any worry about the potential of an unintentional discharge by a child. Finally, for God's sake, learn how to handle the weapon safely and shoot accurately. In the final analysis, safety and being able to shoot the weapon accurately are the two most important aspects in the selection of a law enforcement handgun.
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