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Posted: 9/28/2004 3:40:42 AM EST
I am thinking about getting a Beretta M-92F Inox. However, I have learned through extensive direct contact with the military that they are problematic.
While some people swear by them, their is no doubt that this IS in fact a problem proned gun as has been displayed through years of reports.
I want those of you who've had problems with them to address what they are. The reason is so that I can figure out what the likley things to be done to make it fully reliable are and weather or not it's worth it to buy a Beretta M-92F inox. Worth it being not a matter of extent of work, but weather or not any sacrafices must be made that outweigh it's advantages.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:12:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 4:21:39 AM EST by Avalon01]
One of the largest complaints about the gun are the current USGI magazines (Checkmate I believe).

Basically, they are crap.

According to my cousin - a Marine armorer at Air Station Iwakuni - once USGI mags are replaced with factory mags or old USGI mags, the firearms work fine. He has noticed that some pistols are just "bad" - but he also said so are some M-16's he gets in, no one maker is exempt from putting out a bad gun every now and then.

You also have to remember that sand will kill anything. Troops in WW2 hated their weapons when they fought in North Africa. Enfield and Mauser bolts would stick, and Garands would jam. It not a problem that is happening for the first time.

There is also the ".45 is better" crowd that feels anything less than a 1911 is crap. A lot of people (civilian and military) were pissed when the military switched to a 9mm, and they still carry a grudge.

In my experience with my 92FS - I have had zero problems. I have a bit over 25K through it right now, and other than replacing the springs and the barrel, it runs like a champ. I shoot IDPA and other local pistol competitions with it, and it has not let me down. I had no work done to the gun - I shoot a factory pistol. It feeds hollowpoints and FMJ without fail. Winchester, Speer, UMC, American Eagle, Wolf, various reloads, USGI 9mm Ball, and +P rounds, all work great.

It is a very reliable gun, a bit on the hefty side for a 9mm, but none the less, I trust my life to my 92FS.

Av.

Edit: Your statement their is no doubt that this IS in fact a problem proned gun as has been displayed through years of reports strikes me as Trolling.

The 92FS has a very GOOD reputation - the gun itself is fine. I would like to see the "years of reports", most were probably way back when the M9 was first issued and slides cracked. That was a problem and was fixed. The only complaint that I have read is that troops want a .45. The gun itself seems good.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:19:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:44:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 7:07:19 AM EST by Dog1]
I'm not one of the .45 is better..you gotta hit what you aim at..and no cailber, big or small, is any good if you miss....

With that said, over 15,000 rounds later and nothing has broke on my 92F....all I did was replace some springs, not because they broke, because it was preventive maintance...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:08:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By 44-Canon:
I am thinking about getting a Beretta M-92F Inox. However, I have learned through extensive direct contact with the military that they are problematic.
While some people swear by them, their is no doubt that this IS in fact a problem proned gun as has been displayed through years of reports.

Uh huh. Exactly how direct is that contact? Have you actually been in the military or is your experience limited to war stories from your brother's friend's couisin's ex-roomate who was an Airborne Ranger SEAL sniper who was an original member of Delta Force? The Beretta has had recent trouble because the military was stupid enough to buy a bunch of cheap afetrmarket magazines for it. This problem was no surprise to anybody outside the military because we've always known that aftermarket magazines are crap, regardless of which weapon they are supposed to be used with. The Marines are solving this problem with a large contract they jut awarded to Beretta for a bunch of -factory- magazines. Except for the magazines the Beretta has been working very well for many years.


I want those of you who've had problems with them to address what they are. The reason is so that I can figure out what the likley things to be done to make it fully reliable are and weather or not it's worth it to buy a Beretta M-92F inox. Worth it being not a matter of extent of work, but weather or not any sacrafices must be made that outweigh it's advantages.
Beretta's don't need anything to make them reliable. Just get some good quality magazines and start pulling the trigger. I've heard some people say they needed to use a little more oil than normal on the slide rails for the first hundred rounds or so while it is breaking in but I didn't have any problems on either of mine.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:35:32 AM EST
Sounds like some polishing might do the trick.
I have had quite an extensive history with military. I never surved as a soldier. I mostly worked with soldiers and civilians who work with military and have spent quite a bit of time on bases. I even got to go see the RAH-66 before when it was at Ft. Hood.
I've spoken with armors on a regulear basis and have seen some of these beretta pistols.
The "some are junk, some or good" attitude was actually a better discription of the atmosphier. I've seen and looked over some of them and it seamed as though their may have been some durability issues, as the ones I have seen looked pretty banged up, and most were MP side arms.
My personal most defining experience ( having had very limited experience of actually firing the gun myself, which is why I am asking questions rather then making claims on the subject ) is that a family friend died in a drug raid after his Beretta 92F jamed on him in the middle of a shoot-out, and his gun was cleaned, oiled and cept up.
Anyway, I know how to make a gun reliable. I was just wondering if anyone might have any idea what things might be necessary to improve reliability.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:10:04 AM EST
I own a 92FS and I think it is a fantastic pistol.

I am also a fan and owner of 1911 types and Glocks, too but that does not diminish the love and respect I have for my 92.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:16:10 PM EST
Once we got our shipment of old "training" mags in from our stateside supply, we stored our crap new mags about 5 miles offshore in 250feet of water. Worked for us.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:34:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By 44-Canon:
Sounds like some polishing might do the trick.
I have had quite an extensive history with military. I never surved as a soldier. I mostly worked with soldiers and civilians who work with military and have spent quite a bit of time on bases. I even got to go see the RAH-66 before when it was at Ft. Hood.
I've spoken with armors on a regulear basis and have seen some of these beretta pistols.
The "some are junk, some or good" attitude was actually a better discription of the atmosphier. I've seen and looked over some of them and it seamed as though their may have been some durability issues, as the ones I have seen looked pretty banged up, and most were MP side arms.
My personal most defining experience ( having had very limited experience of actually firing the gun myself, which is why I am asking questions rather then making claims on the subject ) is that a family friend died in a drug raid after his Beretta 92F jamed on him in the middle of a shoot-out, and his gun was cleaned, oiled and cept up.
Anyway, I know how to make a gun reliable. I was just wondering if anyone might have any idea what things might be necessary to improve reliability.



Your military "experience" is non-existant. Don't bother saying you have as you don't.

I've had GI's tell me the 5.56mm tumbles in flight from the muzzle. I've had GI's tell me the 7.62 NATO will fit in the AK's chamber. I've had GIs tell me they had to use the M9's sights differently then we were teaching them because they were shorter and the bullet dropped to the ground faster. I've had GI's tell me alot of crap. Much of the time it was told to me by armourers I was inspecting. In all your "GI experience" you haven't given one example of the M9 failing a GI. Yet you claim it's "problematic" due to your extensive military contact.

You do mention the unfortunate death of your family friend with a 92F jamming. While we have no details on the event (and really don't need any, all autos jam at one time or another. I've seen even revolvers jam.) it would justifiably leave a bad taste in your mouth about the Beretta.

So to answer your question, the best thing to do is use good ammo and good mags, and maintain your Beretta properly and you shouldn't have any problems. Nothing different than any other gun.

I question the wisdom of buying a gun you don't like. I don't think you'd be happy with a Beretta because of your attitude towards them. Why not just buy a Sig P226 (which also passed the trials) and be done with it? There are many other handguns out there, and many are as good as the Beretta. You'd be better served with one of those.

Ross
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:38:27 AM EST
Mine went bang while I was in contact, that is all you can ask. This was despite the problems with the crap magazines that rounds would hang up in when you did your daily unload to clean.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:41:01 AM EST
Slide mounted controls suck, the trigger return spring tends to fail every 1500 rounds, its bulky and the trigger is too far in DA and too close in SA.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 6:28:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Slide mounted controls suck, the trigger return spring tends to fail every 1500 rounds, its bulky and the trigger is too far in DA and too close in SA.


The only problem I've had with slide mounted safety is that it sometimes gets bumped when racking the slide.

My full-size 92 has close to 4000 rounds through it and the trigger return spring is still working fine. The compact only has about 1500 through it.

Bulky is undeniable.

The trigger is fine for my hands but everybody is different.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 6:46:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Slide mounted controls suck, the trigger return spring tends to fail every 1500 rounds, its bulky and the trigger is too far in DA and too close in SA.



Yeah depite them sucking so bad and breaking so much Ernest Langdon won these blue titles using a shitty Beretta. Got 6K through my 92G Elite have yet to break anything. YMMV.

Competition Titles

* 2003 IDPA Custom Defensive Pistol Champion
* 1998 & 2000 IDPA National Stock Service Champion
* 2000 USPSA Limited Nationals Production Class Champion
* Three-time IDPA Winter Nationals Stock Service Champion
* Two-time World Speed Shooting Champion, IDPA Stock Service Class
* More than twenty additional National, Regional, and State shooting titles

Professional Activities

* Chief Instructor, U.S. Marine Corps Scout Sniper School
* Head Instructor, U.S. Marine Corps High Risk Personnel Course (they use Berettas)
* Law Enforcement Operations Supervisor and Technical Advisor, Beretta USA
* National Sales Manager, Triton Ammunition
* President, Langdon Tactical Technology

Certifications

* Beretta Factory Armorer School
* NRA Law Enforcement Instructor (pistol, shotgun, subgun)
* FBI Firearms Instructor Course
* Rogers Tactical Shooting School (advanced handgun rating)
* Various certifications from Gunsite, Chapman Academy, DTI (John Farnam), M.I.S.S. (John Shaw), Jerry Barnhart
* USMC Scout Sniper and Scout Sniper Instructor Schools
* USMC Small Arms Weapons Instructor School
* USMC Advanced Close Quarters Battle Team School
* US Army Ranger School
* US Army Anti-Terrorism Instructor School
* US Army Airborne & Military Free Fall Parachutist School
* US Navy SCUBA School
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 7:57:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By gotm4:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Slide mounted controls suck, the trigger return spring tends to fail every 1500 rounds, its bulky and the trigger is too far in DA and too close in SA.



Yeah depite them sucking so bad and breaking so much Ernest Langdon won these blue titles using a shitty Beretta. Got 6K through my 92G Elite have yet to break anything. YMMV.

Competition Titles

* 2003 IDPA Custom Defensive Pistol Champion
* 1998 & 2000 IDPA National Stock Service Champion
* 2000 USPSA Limited Nationals Production Class Champion
* Three-time IDPA Winter Nationals Stock Service Champion
* Two-time World Speed Shooting Champion, IDPA Stock Service Class
* More than twenty additional National, Regional, and State shooting titles

Professional Activities

* Chief Instructor, U.S. Marine Corps Scout Sniper School
* Head Instructor, U.S. Marine Corps High Risk Personnel Course (they use Berettas)
* Law Enforcement Operations Supervisor and Technical Advisor, Beretta USA
* National Sales Manager, Triton Ammunition
* President, Langdon Tactical Technology

Certifications

* Beretta Factory Armorer School
* NRA Law Enforcement Instructor (pistol, shotgun, subgun)
* FBI Firearms Instructor Course
* Rogers Tactical Shooting School (advanced handgun rating)
* Various certifications from Gunsite, Chapman Academy, DTI (John Farnam), M.I.S.S. (John Shaw), Jerry Barnhart
* USMC Scout Sniper and Scout Sniper Instructor Schools
* USMC Small Arms Weapons Instructor School
* USMC Advanced Close Quarters Battle Team School
* US Army Ranger School
* US Army Anti-Terrorism Instructor School
* US Army Airborne & Military Free Fall Parachutist School
* US Navy SCUBA School



Yep that makes it a shitty gun...
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 11:53:04 AM EST
I own
92FS
92 Combat
96 Combat
92G
96G
92 Target

The only problem is not enough time to shoot. several thousand rounds through each, not a problem yet.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:06:02 PM EST
Gotta go with Army Armorer's aren't always the best information source. I've been to the Unit Armorer course (2 weeks Ft Campbell). It taught me next to nothing about weapons. It did teach me how to disassemble and reassemble alot of weapons and how to keep up with the vast paperwork required to run an armsroom. I have a Berretta 92 that is beat to hell ugly as shit and runs like a champ. If you don't like them or have a bad taste in your mouth about them then don't buy one. There are plenty of other guns out there that are good reliable weapons too. As for me I will continue to trust the berretta with my life and have no qualms about doing so. Now FMJ rounds are another matter but hey you gotta work with what you got.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:16:14 PM EST
recently retiring from the army i've seen plenty of people have problems with the m9 almost all were from lack of experience or disregard for markmanship. they got it out to go to the range if they couldn't find a way out of it and didn't listen to instructors.

I have a 92f and wouldn't trade it. after years of use both military and civilian the only problem I see is maybee adjustable sights.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:19:24 PM EST
I own an Elite II and a Brigadier, and carried an M9 during my deployment in Iraq. no problems, but I take care of my firearms. I thought I would after to defend the Berretta, but you all have done a much better job then I could.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:50:19 PM EST
What most people fail to realize is that most GI's in all reality don't know jack about weapons. Sure, they're trained to use them and maintain them, but other than that, most are really ignorant on the subject. It's been my experience that most GI's pay half-assed attention to the combat arms guys in class, but after that, 90% of their firearms "knowledge" comes from their buddy who used to read Guns & Ammo when he was a kid or their NCOIC who came in in 1980 something and still regurgitates the crap he got from his buddy back in the day. That being said, you can see where most of this “Beretta is crap” attitude comes from as they are mostly hearing the warmed over slide separation and 9mm is no match for the .45 stories from ’85. My 92 has over 15,000 rounds through it w/o a single malfunction and for the past 4 years has been my daily carry. Even the rode hard issue M9s I’ve had never had a problem, though I never had to use one of the new Checkmate mags for duty. If you really like the 92, by all means, pick one or three up and shoot the living crap out of them and prove to yourself the quality of the gun. Keep it clean and well maintained and I guarantee you’ll like it. --ST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:08:28 PM EST
I've owned my 92FS since the spring of 1994. All of my mags are Italian and none have failed me. The gun has approx 3000 rounds thru it and never a failure that wasn't my fault. It has eaten every type of ammo I have thrown at it. I would buy it all over again.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:50:43 PM EST
Mine is great and fits my hand perfectly and the only problems I have had were running out of ammo and a big smile on my face! Thanks Arvin
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:57:04 PM EST
I really like 45s, but I use an M9 at work. To keep muscle memory the same I end up carrying a 92 when Im stateside.

My only complaint is with the ammo. I wish I could carry Hydrashoks while im operational.

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 9:14:25 AM EST
I had a failure to feed on the second round of the very first mag. fired in my brand new INOX, I nudged the slide closed and fired the rest of the mag.

After several thousand rounds of ball, hollow point, +P loads, you name it and Iv'e never looked back. When things go 'bump in the night' I grab my Beretta without hesitation.

And yes I do own two 1911's...
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 12:24:59 PM EST

I have owned a beretta 92fs centurian, a 85fs and a 1201 fp

the 85fs had 2500 rounds through it when I sold it without one Failure of anykind

the 1201fp had 200 rounds through it without 1 failure when I sold it

Now here comes the fun part.

My 92fs for which i have a 22 conversion kit has had over 30,000 rounds (20,000 .22) throught it with only 5 ftf's all .22.

you make your own judgements from that info

Chris
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 1:32:43 PM EST
My 92FS Inox has been completely reliable through about 2500 rounds.

I always use PB factory or Mec-gar mags.

Plus, it's all shiny and has lots of BLING.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 3:38:33 PM EST

I have a Beretta 92SB 9mm, It is a great pistol. I have put about a 1000 or so down the pipe
with very little trouble.

I also have a Beretta 96 with 92FS slide that I use. I have fire well over a 1000 in each
configuration with no problems.

The 92SB likes to jam a little if no kept clean. But this a the version just before the US
picked the 92FS for our armed forces. The 92FS shoots well and did not have any problems
when it was dirty.

good luck

John
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 2:36:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By MaineAR:
I've owned my 92FS since the spring of 1994. All of my mags are Italian and none have failed me. The gun has approx 3000 rounds thru it and never a failure that wasn't my fault. It has eaten every type of ammo I have thrown at it. I would buy it all over again.



Only 3000 rounds??

Don't baby that gun - send some rounds down range!!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 3:28:10 AM EST
I just hate the USGI mags. They are garbage!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:19:23 AM EST
44
You say "I want those of you who've had problems with them to address what they are"

Seems to me you have been fed a @*#xload of information from some that are obviously very confused. Just look at all the complaints you've gotten (LOL)

You also say "The reason is so that I can figure out what the likley things to be done to make it fully reliable".

I don't know of anything that is perfect, but I do know that the the "top dog" of the list always gets the negativity because everyone wants to be where he is. Have you ever heard the term - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!" This is why the gun has had limited (very limited) changes over the last 19 years.

Lastly, I ask you...do you know of anything that is "fully reliable"? If you do, then clue the rest of us poor souls in on it. The truth is getting out of your bed in the morning is a risk!

Buy the damn gun, you won't regret it! Instead, you'll be wondering why you waited so long to get one!
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