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Posted: 7/31/2011 4:47:10 PM EDT
Since the 92FS has an automatic safety (i.e. the one that's disengaged by trigger pull), does it make any sense at all to carry with the manual safety off (i.e. red dot visible)?  I ask because while I can train myself to flip the manual safety lever up as I draw, I'd like to have as little to do as possible should a life or death situation arise.  That is, I'd like to just draw and squeeze the trigger.  Under pressure, that will be quite enough to accomplish.

Am I completely loco here?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/31/2011 4:51:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Carry how you like. I carry mine safety off, hammer back.
Link Posted: 7/31/2011 5:02:32 PM EDT
[#2]
I used to carry with the safety on, but after running through the Virginia Tactical class with Noel and Walter, they recommended that I carry with the safety off unless I got to the point where I could reliably flip the safety off every time under stress situations. To be honest, I'm just happier carrying with the safety off after getting some more practice with it - I keep the hammer down, so it's a huge trigger pull anyway.
Link Posted: 7/31/2011 5:08:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Winterspite, I'm thinking the same as you.

Thanks to both you and KimberTLE45 for your input.
Link Posted: 7/31/2011 5:16:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Carry like you would a SIG DA is DA


GM
Link Posted: 7/31/2011 5:42:32 PM EDT
[#5]
I carried my M9 briefly. I carried safety off, de-cocked.
Link Posted: 7/31/2011 6:38:28 PM EDT
[#6]
safety off, hammer down.  Really wish there was an easy conversion to decock only.
Link Posted: 7/31/2011 11:44:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
safety off, hammer down.  Really wish there was an easy conversion to decock only.


I wish there was a conversion period without changing the entire slide. If you know of a hard way with a safety slide, LMK!  I like my Elite since its decock only and really wish Beretta would offer many more models with it as standard. The second I found out the PX4s where easily converted, I had a set of stealth levers on my subcompact before my second range trip with it.

To the OP: Safety off hammer down is the only way I'd carry any DA/SA handgun with a slide mounted safety/decocker, including my P89.
Link Posted: 8/1/2011 6:33:59 AM EDT
[#8]
While I don't carry mine. When I do holster work I have it chambered & hammer down, safety off. With the DA pull it's no different then a revolver.  The firing pin is blocked until the trigger is pulled.
Link Posted: 8/1/2011 7:02:10 AM EDT
[#9]


Safety on ....



there is a high risk of hesitation and fumbling if for some reason it is engaged while holstered and you expected it to be off.


Link Posted: 8/1/2011 11:34:29 AM EDT
[#10]
I carry my 92FS in condition 2: round chambered, hammer down, safety off. When I train, I always decock, reholster while having my thumb on the hammer and then flip the safety OFF once holstered.

There is always the possibility that the safety could get flipped on while in the holster and that when you draw the safety is off. This would create a hesitation because the shooter would expect the weapon to be ready to fire. Unfortunately, the same could happen when racking the slide. The only solutions are to train as much as possible, use only DAO or striker fired pistols, or replace the 92FS slide with a G or D model slide.

For the person that wondered, there isn't even a HARD way of converting an FS slide to G. One member on the Beretta Forums with lots of machining and smithing experience with 92's could not do it.

Link Posted: 8/1/2011 11:48:50 PM EDT
[#11]
For the person that wondered, there isn't even a HARD way of converting an FS slide to G. One member on the Beretta Forums with lots of machining and smithing experience with 92's could not do it.


That's what I figured and is the same thing I heard a few times before. Too bad since it seems more preferred by many Beretta owners. I know if I could have all of my 92s with decockers only like my Elite, I would.
Link Posted: 8/2/2011 1:12:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I carry my 92FS in condition 2: round chambered, hammer down, safety off. When I train, I always decock, reholster while having my thumb on the hammer and then flip the safety OFF once holstered.

There is always the possibility that the safety could get flipped on while in the holster and that when you draw the safety is off. This would create a hesitation because the shooter would expect the weapon to be ready to fire. Unfortunately, the same could happen when racking the slide. The only solutions are to train as much as possible, use only DAO or striker fired pistols, or replace the 92FS slide with a G or D model slide.

For the person that wondered, there isn't even a HARD way of converting an FS slide to G. One member on the Beretta Forums with lots of machining and smithing experience with 92's could not do it.



Condition 2 (hammer down on a single action weapon with a round in the chamber) does not apply to the 92 since pulling the trigger will cause it to fire.


Condition 4:
No magazine inserted, no round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.

Condition 3:
Magazine inserted, no round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.

Condition 2: (does not apply to the M16 or M9 or many others)
For 1911 style actions only: Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, hammer down

Condition 1: (for all except 1911 style action)
Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.

For 1911 style action: Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on-safe, hammer cocked. Also referred to as "cocked and locked"

Condition 0: (not in current military usage, derived from LtCol Jeff Cooper's "modern method" for 1911)
Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon OFF-safe, hammer cocked.
Link Posted: 8/2/2011 5:23:52 AM EDT
[#13]
round chambered, safety off, hammer down.

It's how I carry all my DA/SA handguns and also the way you have to start shooting IDPA for SSP division as well as the condition for when I shoot bowling pins. It seems it was the way the DA/SA was meant to be carried.
Link Posted: 8/2/2011 5:24:13 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I carry my 92FS in condition 2: round chambered, hammer down, safety off. When I train, I always decock, reholster while having my thumb on the hammer and then flip the safety OFF once holstered.

There is always the possibility that the safety could get flipped on while in the holster and that when you draw the safety is off. This would create a hesitation because the shooter would expect the weapon to be ready to fire. Unfortunately, the same could happen when racking the slide. The only solutions are to train as much as possible, use only DAO or striker fired pistols, or replace the 92FS slide with a G or D model slide.

For the person that wondered, there isn't even a HARD way of converting an FS slide to G. One member on the Beretta Forums with lots of machining and smithing experience with 92's could not do it.



Condition 2 (hammer down on a single action weapon with a round in the chamber) does not apply to the 92 since pulling the trigger will cause it to fire.


Condition 4:
No magazine inserted, no round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.

Condition 3:
Magazine inserted, no round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.

Condition 2: (does not apply to the M16 or M9 or many others)
For 1911 style actions only: Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, hammer down

Condition 1: (for all except 1911 style action)
Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.

For 1911 style action: Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on-safe, hammer cocked. Also referred to as "cocked and locked"

Condition 0: (not in current military usage, derived from LtCol Jeff Cooper's "modern method" for 1911)
Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon OFF-safe, hammer cocked.


Where does the Air Force's mag inserted, round in chamber, slide forward, on fire, hammer down fall in? Condition .5?

I guess we just have to be different

Link Posted: 8/2/2011 8:14:36 AM EDT
[#15]
No problem I see carrying safety off. Its the same as carrying decock only gun, which i have.

Decock only, and DAO is ready to fire and gives the same amount of safety as a normal "safety off" gun, once its been decocked.
Link Posted: 8/2/2011 12:17:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I carry my 92FS in condition 2: round chambered, hammer down, safety off. When I train, I always decock, reholster while having my thumb on the hammer and then flip the safety OFF once holstered.

There is always the possibility that the safety could get flipped on while in the holster and that when you draw the safety is off. This would create a hesitation because the shooter would expect the weapon to be ready to fire. Unfortunately, the same could happen when racking the slide. The only solutions are to train as much as possible, use only DAO or striker fired pistols, or replace the 92FS slide with a G or D model slide.

For the person that wondered, there isn't even a HARD way of converting an FS slide to G. One member on the Beretta Forums with lots of machining and smithing experience with 92's could not do it.



Condition 2 (hammer down on a single action weapon with a round in the chamber) does not apply to the 92 since pulling the trigger will cause it to fire.


Condition 4:
No magazine inserted, no round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.

Condition 3:
Magazine inserted, no round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.

Condition 2: (does not apply to the M16 or M9 or many others)
For 1911 style actions only: Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, hammer down

Condition 1: (for all except 1911 style action)
Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.

For 1911 style action: Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on-safe, hammer cocked. Also referred to as "cocked and locked"

Condition 0: (not in current military usage, derived from LtCol Jeff Cooper's "modern method" for 1911)
Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon OFF-safe, hammer cocked.


Why wouldn't condition 2 not apply to the M9 if it's the only good descriptor? Condition 1 has the safety on. Condition 2 mentions nothing of the safety but in the 92's case it would be with the safety off to differentiate from condition 1.
Link Posted: 8/2/2011 12:30:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Condition 1 or even 0 would be closet thing to that praticular construct, since pulling the trigger will cause the weapon to fire
Link Posted: 8/2/2011 1:13:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Condition 1 or even 0 would be closet thing to that praticular construct, since pulling the trigger will cause the weapon to fire


I've never seen those particular condition "exclusions" stated in any of my searches of LtCol Cooper's modern pistol techniques, i.e., condition 1 is only cocked and locked and only applies to 1911 style, not as you have it where you state for all except 1911 C1 is hammer down but for the 1911 it's "cocked and locked"


Condition Four: Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down.
Condition Three: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition Two: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition One: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
Condition Zero: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off.

Going by that, the M92FS could be carried in Zero, Two, Three or Four.
Link Posted: 8/2/2011 10:44:07 PM EDT
[#19]
I carry all my pistols safety on hammer decocked, I train with the longer trigger pull, and turning the safety off on the draw. I am not quite sure why people all of sudden have issue with turning a safety off upon drawing. If you practice enough it will become muscle memory. I carry my Beretta on duty the same way.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 12:14:52 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Condition 1 or even 0 would be closet thing to that praticular construct, since pulling the trigger will cause the weapon to fire


I've never seen those particular condition "exclusions" stated in any of my searches of LtCol Cooper's modern pistol techniques, i.e., condition 1 is only cocked and locked and only applies to 1911 style, not as you have it where you state for all except 1911 C1 is hammer down but for the 1911 it's "cocked and locked"


Condition Four: Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down.
Condition Three: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition Two: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition One: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
Condition Zero: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off.

Going by that, the M92FS could be carried in Zero, Two, Three or Four.


2 means the weapon cannot fire by pulling the trigger.  2 specifically doesn't apply to DA pistols.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 9:15:07 AM EDT
[#21]
I carry a 92FS concealed every day. I WANT a DA/Sa trigger - although, I have done some work on it, and it's got about a DA 8lb trigger.

Anyway, the long, heavier first shot IS my safety. I like that over something like a Glock, as it will keep me from making a stupid mistake when the drenaline kicks in.

I don't need a safety on top of that when i am carrying.

I only use my safety as a decocker for the gun. Otherwise, safety off, hammer down...

Link Posted: 8/3/2011 10:39:21 AM EDT
[#22]
All the G models are decock only, no safety.

When I carry my 92's I carry with the safety ON.

Just my .02
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 1:01:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Safety on ....

there is a high risk of hesitation and fumbling if for some reason it is engaged while holstered and you expected it to be off.



Good point HOWEVER in all my carrying my 92 (usually an IWB holster) I have NEVER had the safety accidently engage. You may be built differently / move differently, so verify that this is true of you by wearing the gun and see what happens.

Also, if you practice at it you can get your trigger pull to where you start to pull the trigger as you extend your arms them have it fire just as your arms lock and the sights come on target. with about 15-minutes practice you should be able to hit a 1-foot square target at 7 years in under 1-second (including reaction time). Just do it without bullets the first few times so you don't shoot your left hand.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 1:05:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I carry a 92FS concealed every day. I WANT a DA/Sa trigger - although, I have done some work on it, and it's got about a DA 8lb trigger.

Anyway, the long, heavier first shot IS my safety. I like that over something like a Glock, as it will keep me from making a stupid mistake when the drenaline kicks in.

I don't need a safety on top of that when i am carrying.

I only use my safety as a decocker for the gun. Otherwise, safety off, hammer down...



I was once at a shooting competion (they call it IDPA? I can't remember) and some douch-bag safety officer insisted that I turn-on my safety. I wouldn't have argued except that he was carrying a glock. Go on u-tube and search "shoots himself with glock" and "shoots himself with beretta" and similar searchterms... you'll find lots of people shooting themselves with glock, few if any with beretta. Perhaps beretta owners are smarter or perhaps berettas are safer... I think it's a combination of the two ; )
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 5:08:43 PM EDT
[#25]
At work, I carry mine hammer down, safety off, in a SERPA holster.



Nothing's dicking around with that trigger in that rig, and I figure that the security offered, plus the FPS of the 92 series, and the DA pull, is plenty "safety" enough.  I basically treat it like a G model, unless I'm at home, in which case I activate the safety unless it's my nightstand gun.  Once it goes in the holster, the safety gets deactivated.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 5:39:27 PM EDT
[#26]


I carry mine safety off once holstered, hammer down. I still keep up with consistant flip up motion of the safety regardless though. You can't count on it not being knocked down during movement throughout the day and it's better to train like it's on than off to me.





Link Posted: 8/3/2011 9:51:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Its perfectly normal to carry the 92FS with the safety off. Its the whole point of a DA/SA automatic.

Beretta made the 92G which only had a decocker, and Sigs also only use a decocker.
Link Posted: 8/5/2011 6:37:53 PM EDT
[#28]
Always have mine with the decocker down to keep myself in the habit of flipping it off. It's perfectly safe to carry with the decocker off. I'll even be blasphemous enough to say it's safe to carry with the hammer cocked as it won't fire unless the trigger is pulled to the rear.
Link Posted: 8/5/2011 10:05:34 PM EDT
[#29]
After it's in the holster, I flip the safety off.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 4:23:11 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:

I carry mine safety off once holstered, hammer down. I still keep up with consistant flip up motion of the safety regardless though. You can't count on it not being knocked down during movement throughout the day and it's better to train like it's on than off to me.



Agreed.
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 3:51:38 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Carry how you like. I carry mine safety off, hammer back.


I carry mine safety off, hammer back, emptey chamber, empty magazine
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 6:51:01 PM EDT
[#32]
I've carried an M9, concealed and unconcealed, in a high threat environment for a period of several years.  In pre-deployment training, we were taught the "lever down, lever up, reholster" mantra to decock, and carry off safe.  It was more geared toward folks who had come from carrying SIGs or Glocks, or other pistols with no manual safety, and I think it has applications in that regard.  HOWEVER, one of the biggest design flaws of the M9 is the slide mounted safety.  It's up and unprotected for the most part, and susceptible to being swept back on, or off by all manner of things ranging from your carry garment, to body armor or straps from LBE, to seat belts, door frame, etc.  

I routinely would find my M9 back on safe even though I had just decocked and off-safed it 30 minutes prior before getting in a vehicle.  This basically defeated the purpose of carrying it off safe because you'll never really know what position the safety will be in.  So, I decided it's far better to train to swipe the safety off during the draw stroke as one would with an 1911 or Hi Power.  The one exception I would make, is if the holster you are intending to carry it in covers the safety/decocker so as to prevent it from being brushed on or off.  Examples would include the Safariland 6280 and related holsters.  YMMV.

Quoted:

I carry mine safety off once holstered, hammer down. I still keep up with consistant flip up motion of the safety regardless though. You can't count on it not being knocked down during movement throughout the day and it's better to train like it's on than off to me.


Wise man.
Link Posted: 8/14/2011 4:34:00 AM EDT
[#33]
I carry round in the chamber and hammer at half cock...that way the safety cannot be inadvertantly be put on.  I have a holster that completly covers the trigger guard so I am not worried about being at half cock.   I always do keep my thoughts about the fact that I am carrying a loaded weapon.

There is an added bonus that carrying at half cock, makes the first round so much easier to fire.
Link Posted: 8/14/2011 5:17:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Before I got a "G" slide, I always carried safety off. If you can carry a DAO firearm or revolver without accidentally shooting yourself, or a busload of nuns, then you can carry a Beretta with the safety off.
Procuring a 92G slide was the best "mod" I've ever done to my 92.
Link Posted: 8/14/2011 5:21:06 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Carry like you would a SIG DA is DA


GM


^This.^

Always OFF, in half cock when I carry the 92FS.
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