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Posted: 9/19/2016 10:08:02 AM EDT
Results are in from our own 10mm_ Here is his test video.  Just a short vid clip in slo-mo. Results are in the description if you click on youtube. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 3:06:21 PM EDT
[#1]
What were the ammo specs? Also, could you do one sometime with a 9mm for comparison. I know the 9mm train would tell that it would have passed through all 5 while simultaneously tilting the Earth off it's axis
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Posted: 9/19/2016 3:20:31 PM EDT
[#2]
I can't tell much with it being slowed down so much.
I like the slow-mo, but would also like to see it in real-time as well. Thanks for taking the time to do it regardless. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 3:46:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What were the ammo specs? Also, could you do one sometime with a 9mm for comparison. I know the 9mm train would tell that it would have passed through all 5 while simultaneously tilting the Earth off it's axis <strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; outline: none;">Technical Information[/span]
Don't have any 9mm hardcast to compare. There were a number of loads tested using the water jug system (totally unscientific)  , there will be more data and write ups, this is a project to give the 380 and certain loads a good look. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 3:52:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't tell much with it being slowed down so much. I like the slow-mo, but would also like to see it in real-time as well. Thanks for taking the time to do it regardless. I did the slo mo just for the kinda cool look, never did one before...pretty new to video and downloading. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 4:00:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will post the real time for ya, it will probably be tonight as it's on my ipad and it's at home. I did the slo mo just for the kinda cool look, never did one before...pretty new to video and downloading. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I can't tell much with it being slowed down so much. I like the slow-mo, but would also like to see it in real-time as well. Thanks for taking the time to do it regardless. And yet you are miles ahead of me.....
That whole video editing thing is a deep-ass rabbit hole. You don't realize the work and skill involved until you try it. Thanks for sharing. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 4:16:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet you are miles ahead of me..... That whole video editing thing is a deep-ass rabbit hole. You don't realize the work and skill involved until you try it. Thanks for sharing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't tell much with it being slowed down so much. I like the slow-mo, but would also like to see it in real-time as well. Thanks for taking the time to do it regardless. And yet you are miles ahead of me..... That whole video editing thing is a deep-ass rabbit hole. You don't realize the work and skill involved until you try it. Thanks for sharing. Multiple loads, all in ballistic gel. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 4:56:56 PM EDT
[#7]
I think ill have time on wed to do my testing.
.380 sig v crown, 9mm & .40 hst through a simulated car door into water jugs |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 5:44:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think ill have time on wed to do my testing. .380 sig v crown, 9mm & .40 hst through a simulated car door into water jugs I did 5 jug tests yesterday, also did what I call a plywood sandwich test (trademarked) I clamped together 8 layers of plywood pieces and put 11 different rounds into it, marked em while shooting as to which load into which hole. Then took it apart layer at a time to see where they stopped and marked each bullet as to how far they made it, all bullets were recovered. You may be asking what will that data show ?? hell if I know..  |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 5:45:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think ill have time on wed to do my testing. .380 sig v crown, 9mm & .40 hst through a simulated car door into water jugs That should be a good test! Representative of a likely encounter. I like your thinking. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 5:54:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That should be a good test! Representative of a likely encounter. I like your thinking. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think ill have time on wed to do my testing. .380 sig v crown, 9mm & .40 hst through a simulated car door into water jugs That should be a good test! Representative of a likely encounter. I like your thinking. Thanks. RWM was the motivation for this. And that really is my hangup with what I consider marginal calibers. I have no doubt a .380 can kill a personwith ideal positioning. I like to plan, within reason, for worst case scenarios. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 6:01:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks. RWM was the motivation for this. And that really is my hangup with what I consider marginal calibers. I have no doubt a .380 can kill a personwith ideal positioning. I like to plan, within reason, for worst case scenarios. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think ill have time on wed to do my testing. .380 sig v crown, 9mm & .40 hst through a simulated car door into water jugs That should be a good test! Representative of a likely encounter. I like your thinking. Thanks. RWM was the motivation for this. And that really is my hangup with what I consider marginal calibers. I have no doubt a .380 can kill a personwith ideal positioning. I like to plan, within reason, for worst case scenarios. As much as I think it has potential as a small defense pistol, the ammo selection will make or break ya. Hell even if ya get a great load that will penetrate, you still have to consider is it accurate and will it feed. My experience is that 380 can be a bit more picky about ammo than 9mm. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 6:18:38 PM EDT
[#12]
What gun?
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Posted: 9/19/2016 6:25:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What gun? The gel block tests will be done from a Ruger lcp. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 8:58:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Real time requested by foursixty.
Recovered bullet..went thru 5 jugs, lying under 5th.  </img /> |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 9:33:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Underwood 65 gr ext def..1420fps
I have hopes for this lil bullet. Recovered bullet.
 </img /> |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 7:32:35 AM EDT
[#16]
Fixed the bad video in last post.
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Posted: 9/20/2016 9:03:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Underwood 65 gr ext def..1420fps I have hopes for this lil bullet.
 https://youtu.be/--KeIuxWpRE
Looks like it only damaged 1 jug of water. Did it enter the second one? |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 9:15:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like it only damaged 1 jug of water. Did it enter the second one? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Underwood 65 gr ext def..1420fps I have hopes for this lil bullet. https://youtu.be/--KeIuxWpRELooks like it only damaged 1 jug of water. Did it enter the second one? If I recall that was 4 jugs total. That bullets big brother (90GR Ext Penetrator +P), was not captured, 6 jugs pass thru and bounced off plywood for parts unknown. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 10:11:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I took detailed notes with every shot, but they're at home.If I recall that was 4 jugs total. That bullets big brother (90GR Ext Penetrator +P), was not captured, 6 jugs pass thru and bounced off plywood for parts unknown. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Underwood 65 gr ext def..1420fps I have hopes for this lil bullet.
https://youtu.be/--KeIuxWpRE
Looks like it only damaged 1 jug of water. Did it enter the second one? That bullets big brother (90GR Ext Penetrator +P), was not captured, 6 jugs pass thru and bounced off plywood for parts unknown. That is impressive |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 10:27:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is impressive Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I took detailed notes with every shot, but they're at home.If I recall that was 4 jugs total. That bullets big brother (90GR Ext Penetrator +P), was not captured, 6 jugs pass thru and bounced off plywood for parts unknown. That is impressive I want a broadside shot thru the front shoulder into the vitals and see how it penetrates and the tissue/vital damage that it does. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 2:00:50 PM EDT
[#21]
I went to that Underwood page.
Frankly, 1,140fps with a 100gr. bullet concerns me a little bit. As they say on their page, that is very hot. And I can’t find any data regarding the test barrel they are using on their page. It’s critical to know its length. I load Hornady’s 90gr. HP-XTP to 1,000fps using 4.7grs. of Power Pistol (chronographed @10’, in my G42). Gelatin testing shows the Hornady bullet getting 16” of penetration in ballistic gel with modest expansion @1,000fps; it’s an older HP bullet design. This is just one step below the maximum charge weight listed in Hornady’s reloading manual. It’s up to you, but I think the job can get done with less wear and tear on the equipment....and there is always 9mm as an option, too. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 2:18:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went to that Underwood page. Frankly, 1,140fps with a 100gr. bullet concerns me a little bit. As they say on their page, that is very hot. And I can’t find any data regarding the test barrel they are using on their page. It’s critical to know its length. I load Hornady’s 90gr. HP-XTP to 1,000fps using 4.7grs. of Power Pistol (chronographed @10’, in my G42). Gelatin testing shows the Hornady bullet getting 16” of penetration in ballistic gel with modest expansion @1,000fps; it’s an older HP bullet design. This is just one step below the maximum charge weight listed in Hornady’s reloading manual. It’s up to you, but I think the job can get done with less wear and tear on the equipment....and there is always 9mm as an option, too. I have a soft spot for it, I will get true chrono #'s listed when I get time. My water jug testing was soaking me and my chrono, so I pulled it. I will test the loads just for velocity, the 65 gr was just a lil over 20fps from published claim from Underwood. Lastly they are good folks, I will call em and ask what length bbl they used for 380 velocity. Thank you for your input.  |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 3:15:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very valid point as not all pistols are created equal, 9mm is not what this is about , I have lots of 9's and ammo, I am picking on the 380 here (we are testing some 9mm as well). I have a soft spot for it, I will get true chrono #'s listed when I get time. My water jug testing was soaking me and my chrono, so I pulled it. I will test the loads just for velocity, the 65 gr was just a lil over 20fps from published claim from Underwood. Lastly they are good folks, I will call em and ask what length bbl they used for 380 velocity. Thank you for your input. They use the Glock 42, Beretta 85, for testing, they have used the Ruger LCP also. Regarding +P, it is not recommended for the LCP unless you use a heavier recoil spring, and not a steady diet of it. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 9:54:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Recovered bullet pics added to previous video posts, along with penetration depth.
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Posted: 9/20/2016 10:37:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What were the ammo specs? Also, could you do one sometime with a 9mm for comparison. I know the 9mm train would tell that it would have passed through all 5 while simultaneously tilting the Earth off it's axis I will post video of that later in this post.  </img /> </img /> |
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Posted: 9/21/2016 12:20:17 PM EDT
[#26]
I shoot pistol HPs into water fairly frequently I think it's fun.
Here's some in .380, 9mm and .38 I've done over the years. 
This was last week. Winchester 115gr JHP/6gr Unique 
Most bullets make it to third jug. |
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Posted: 9/21/2016 2:42:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Would a hardcast that duplicated regular loads offer an advantage over ball ammo?
Penetration, better cutting? |
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Posted: 9/21/2016 4:51:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I shoot pistol HPs into water fairly frequently I think it's fun. Here's some in .380, 9mm and .38 I've done over the years. http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10/astillwell90/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0285_zpspftzaduj.jpg This was last week. Winchester 115gr JHP/6gr Unique http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10/astillwell90/Mobile%20Uploads/20160921_091211_zpsnqxt57fj.jpg Most bullets make it to third jug. I have a new water system to try soon, should be more realistic, due to using baggies and not jugs. |
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Posted: 9/21/2016 4:57:18 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would a hardcast that duplicated regular loads offer an advantage over ball ammo? Penetration, better cutting? My hunch is maybe not, due to the fact it is hardened lead (probably not gonna mushroom too much) When I post the 11 bullets pulled from the plywood sandwich, you will see what the bullets looks like after burying up in multiple layers of clamped plywood. The hard lead acted like a fmj if I remember correctly, didn't deform much at 15ft and penetrated rather nicely. |
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Posted: 9/21/2016 5:04:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Thanks, wasn't tring thread jack just add something in.
If the hardcast bullet has a wide, flat meplat with sharp corners it will crush more tissue than RN and punch through heavy tissue and bone better too. If both RN probably very similar. |
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Posted: 9/21/2016 5:41:11 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, wasn't tring thread jack just add something in. If the hardcast bullet has a wide, flat meplat with sharp corners it will crush more tissue than RN and punch through heavy tissue and bone better too. If both RN probably very similar. Good point on the hardcast vs ball, I can tell ya that the lil 100gr bullet is a champ at penetration, I will try to get chrony #'s for all loads tested this weekend. Here is a sneak peek of the plywood sandwich, #5 is the 100gr hardcast, 4p, means it went deep into or thru the 4 panel. A few of those bullets are 9mm.
Plywood specs forthcoming, these were not thin pieces.  </img /> |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 6:08:58 AM EDT
[#32]
Another 380 load
Underwood 90gr jhp +P 1200fps  </img /> </img /> |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 6:48:53 AM EDT
[#33]
Looks good! I have:
90gr GDHP 115gr GDHP 115gr XTP 158gr LSWCHP And maybe a few more I'll test and add. These will be fired from a G19, LCP and 3" K frame S&W. |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 6:52:45 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks good! I have: 90gr GDHP 115gr GDHP 115gr XTP 158gr LSWCHP And maybe a few more I'll test and add. These will be fired from a G19, LCP and 3" K frame S&W. I will update all of the loads I posted soon with chrony #'s and what barrel they were shot with, so people can have an idea if they don't have a chrony. |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 7:10:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Great thread OP. I may have to reconsider carrying ball ammo in my 380
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Posted: 9/23/2016 7:53:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Ah, wish I could. No chrony. All my funds are going to stuff that might be hard to get later right now.
Plus 3/4 of those are handloads and wouldn't replicate what factory ammo would give for people. |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 8:16:49 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah, wish I could. No chrony. All my funds are going to stuff that might be hard to get later right now. Plus 3/4 of those are handloads and wouldn't replicate what factory ammo would give for people.  |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 9:11:21 AM EDT
[#38]
Yeah, I should probably get one lol.
I guess I haven't because the way I see it the velocity is what it's gonna be. What I mean by that is that when I work up a load and it's accurate and at the upper limit of published data with no pressure signs I'm happy. You can find chrono numbers for pretty much any load combination with your barrel length if you dig enough. I know the approximate velocity and that's good enough for the shooting I do. |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 10:09:55 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I should probably get one lol. I guess I haven't because the way I see it the velocity is what it's gonna be. What I mean by that is that when I work up a load and it's accurate and at the upper limit of published data with no pressure signs I'm happy. You can find chrono numbers for pretty much any load combination with your barrel length if you dig enough. I know the approximate velocity and that's good enough for the shooting I do. I only have one tripod, and also this testing/playing and recording and posting data takes a good bit of time. |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 11:41:31 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I should probably get one lol. I guess I haven't because the way I see it the velocity is what it's gonna be. What I mean by that is that when I work up a load and it's accurate and at the upper limit of published data with no pressure signs I'm happy. You can find chrono numbers for pretty much any load combination with your barrel length if you dig enough. I know the approximate velocity and that's good enough for the shooting I do. Ive been reloading since I was 12. Thats 20 years and ive never used one |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 11:51:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ive been reloading since I was 12. Thats 20 years and ive never used one Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah, I should probably get one lol. I guess I haven't because the way I see it the velocity is what it's gonna be. What I mean by that is that when I work up a load and it's accurate and at the upper limit of published data with no pressure signs I'm happy. You can find chrono numbers for pretty much any load combination with your barrel length if you dig enough. I know the approximate velocity and that's good enough for the shooting I do. Ive been reloading since I was 12. Thats 20 years and ive never used one |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 6:23:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Five 380 loads on the way to 10MM_ for official ballistic gel test.
And I just remembered I forgot to put the denim in the box...oh well |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 7:02:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Five 380 loads on the way to 10MM_ for official ballistic gel test.And I just remembered I forgot to put the denim in the box...oh well |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 7:16:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which loads? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Five 380 loads on the way to 10MM_ for official ballistic gel test.And I just remembered I forgot to put the denim in the box...oh well 65gr +P Ext Defender 90gr Ext Penetrator 90gr XTP JHP 90gr +P XTP JHP 100gr +P Hardcast I am hoping he can test them all, The gel will be new and can be melted and reused, but I am not sure how many times. That is why I asked him to do it, I don't wanna get into the gel testing as it can get expensive. I blow enough money as it is
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Posted: 9/23/2016 10:37:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Here is part 1 of the plywood sandwich test.
Scroll up for an overall pic and definition. These measurements are not super precision, they are close, 3/4 or more (aprox) in the plywood panel, the bullet got credit for the entire panel penetration. Each panel was .665 Here are the ones that got thru panels 2 and 3, all loads passed thru panel 1, distance was aprox 10ft. I will post the other 6 bullets over the next day or two. I tried to keep the damage to bullets to a minimum while cutting them out, but some prying took place.  </img /> </img /> </img /> |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 6:41:20 AM EDT
[#46]
Interesting. Plywood really does a number on the hollow point cavity.
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Posted: 9/24/2016 10:38:13 AM EDT
[#47]
Is #9 standard ball?
Very interesting thread, btw. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 11:24:18 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is #9 standard ball? Very interesting thread, btw. Also That info on #9 is wrong, thanks for noticing, that bullet, it is 100gr rnd nose flat point. I will fix that. EDIT: Fixed |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 11:27:38 AM EDT
[#49]
Fixed the pics that explain the loads, scroll back up.
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Posted: 9/24/2016 11:32:11 AM EDT
[#50]
I was never a big fan of the 380acp.
But, I was a fan of the Beretta 84/browning BDA back in the day, but couldn't afford one. So, when the Israeli surplus Beretta 84's showed up, I bought one...an almost new looking 84F, for less than $300. My plan was to shoot it for while and someday use it for trade bait. However, I found I really like it. Fits my hand really well, points like a finger, and is surprisingly accurate. Compact, light, and easy to carry. And 14 rounds. So, I doubt it will ever be trade bait. It often gets house gun duty in preference to other, more powerful handguns...though the 12ga riot gun is never far away. I keep my Beretta loaded with Underwood +P XTP, and I'm satisfied with that load, which has proven remarkably accurate. My club has 10" steel plates ranging from 40yds to 100yds, and I rang the 80yd plate standing offhand. At 25yds, I put the whole mag in the black on an NRA bullseye shooting one handed standing. For an FMJ load, I want to try the Sigammo 102gn FMJ. I bought a box, and it looks like quality ammo, but I haven't shot any yet. The bullet has a small, sharp shouldered meplat. Looking forward to seeing how it shoots, and hoping to see some chrono results from someone, especially in a longer barreled gun like my Beretta. |
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