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Posted: 9/2/2008 1:02:45 PM EST
I'm using Corbon DPX in my HK p2ksk. I have decided to switch to Doubletap but i cant decide on the grain. i've never looked at the 147gr in 357, so what does everyone think of them.


the King
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 3:30:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By kcking:
so what does everyone think of them.

Double Tap ammo?


For my .357 Sig:

Speer 125gr Gold Dots
Winchester 125gr Ranger T
Federal 125gr Premium JHP
Hornady 124gr & 147gr XTP
Remington 125gr Bonded Golden Saber
Corbon 125gr DPX all-copper bullet

*Corbon 125gr JHP [not DPX] performs exactly like 125gr .357 Magnum
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 3:44:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2008 3:51:45 AM EST by kevin44mag]

Originally Posted By kcking:
I'm using Corbon DPX in my HK p2ksk. I have decided to switch to Doubletap but i cant decide on the grain. i've never looked at the 147gr in 357, so what does everyone think of them.


the King


The sig was designed around the 125gr loading. The 125gr from double tap look pretty good, As they do from other manufactures such as federal hst, speer gd and a few others. If the 147gr hp is designed for that velocity then it would be good. Im guessing it is a 9mm projectile that has been loaded into a 357 sig case. Meaning the hollowpoint will expand very rapidly at those velocities. the hp will probably fold back decreasing the size of the projectile, im guessing .55. Is the bg going to know the difference? probably not, It should penetrate deeply enough considering it is a 147gr traveling around 1200fps. the 9mm hst 147gr +p actually expands less than the standard preasure loading in bg due to the added velocity folding the pedals back. so maybe we will se this with the sig. Im sure it would make a good round. there loadings are about 100fps faster than most other ammo manufacturers, so it makes me wonder about the preasure. Im sure it can handle it and other manufactures are playing it safe.
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 4:43:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rampant_Colt:

Originally Posted By kcking:
so what does everyone think of them.

Double Tap ammo?


For my .357 Sig:

Speer 125gr Gold Dots
Winchester 125gr Ranger T
Federal 125gr Premium JHP
Hornady 124gr & 147gr XTP
Remington 125gr Bonded Golden Saber
Corbon 125gr DPX all-copper bullet

*Corbon 125gr JHP [not DPX] performs exactly like 125gr .357 Magnum


What issues have you had with DT ammo?

First I have heard someone complaining about a niche that was needed to be filled.

TXL
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 5:37:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By Rampant_Colt:

Originally Posted By kcking:
so what does everyone think of them.

Double Tap ammo?


For my .357 Sig:

Speer 125gr Gold Dots
Winchester 125gr Ranger T
Federal 125gr Premium JHP
Hornady 124gr & 147gr XTP
Remington 125gr Bonded Golden Saber
Corbon 125gr DPX all-copper bullet

*Corbon 125gr JHP [not DPX] performs exactly like 125gr .357 Magnum


What issues have you had with DT ammo?

First I have heard someone complaining about a niche that was needed to be filled.

TXL


I was wondering the same. They are one of very few (2 that I can think of) that make real 10mm ammo (not the FBI Lite crap that all the big makers produce). Having a few thousand rounds of DT ammo through the business end of various firearms, what is your issue with them?
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 7:16:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2008 7:17:58 AM EST by hotpig]
I think Rampant_Colt is like me and prefers ammo with street credibility. DT like posted above by TxLewis is for a little nitch in the market mainly for velocity junkies. It will probably never have street credibility due to its limited market.
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 11:02:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By hotpig:
I think Rampant_Colt is like me and prefers ammo with street credibility. DT like posted above by TxLewis is for a little niche in the market mainly for velocity junkies. It will probably never have street credibility due to its limited market.

Couldn't have said it better myself...

Why use "dt" Gold Dot when the stuff that Speer sells is well-known and proven with many LE agencies. You can't fix something that already works.

Lots of internet chest thumping about how the dt factory-published velocity figures and factory-quoted terminal ballistics are so superior to Hornady's and Speer's using their bullets driven to higher velocity. I'm not buying into that mindset or falling for the marketing hyperbole.
I'm not throwing stones-- merely expressing my opinion
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 3:51:21 PM EST
I would stay away from DT ammo myself. Bullets are designed for certain velocities. Pushing them beyond that isn't a good idea.
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 5:11:32 PM EST
I carry an HKP2K in 357 Sig and stoke it with Federal 125 grain HST.
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 5:18:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2008 5:20:32 PM EST by Skg_Mre_Lght]
That may be true for normal/available rounds, but it is DT or nothing for the Centimeter. As a matter of fact, if we stayed with the logic that "no bullet should be pushed past the velocity the manufacturer loads it" we would be stuck with 1100 fps 180 grain XTPs out of a 10mm, or other craptastically weak loads because the FBI deemed this necessary nearly 20 years ago.

Another point is that those of us that reload are always seeking to better factory stats, such as velocity. Velocities and pressures are not always sought for bullet construction, much of it is due to legal liability (take the .45-70 for instance...the .450 Marlin had to have a different case to produce velocities that the .45-70 Gv'ment was capable of due to legal concerns of old guns blowing up...not bullet construction).

If any of you doubt this, I will put up a full power 10mm round with Gold Dots of any given weight to a .40 S&W, and we will see which has more spectacular results in ballistic gelatin. I have done many oddball tests, and velocity only helps a Gold Dot and XTP's performance within reasonable handgun velocities.

Street credibility only means that the round was issued en masse. Anyone want to discuss the merits of a 7.62 ball round on living tissue as opposed to a real expanding hunting bullet? With this logic, one can surmise that the Toyota Corrolla is the best car available due to the shear number of them on the road.

Flawed logic.
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 11:18:36 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By threefeathers:
I carry an HKP2K in 357 Sig and stoke it with Federal 125 grain HST.


I havent been able to find HST for 357sig. Wheres a good place online.
I usually go to ammotogo.com but they dont have them for 357sig
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 4:29:08 AM EST

Street credibility only means that the round was issued en masse.


Street credibility means it has been used against many real live people with good results.

You are correct that it has to be on the streets in mass to earn credibility via flesh and blood shootings in a short period of time .
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 5:21:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By hotpig:

Street credibility only means that the round was issued en masse.


Street credibility means it has been used against many real live people with good results.

You are correct that it has to be on the streets in mass to earn credibility via flesh and blood shootings in a short period of time .


Exactly...street credibility does not necessarily mean that it is a superior design, but that it was issued more readily than other designs. Remember there are PDs that still issue Winchester White Box ammo.
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 10:50:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:
That may be true for normal/available rounds, but it is DT or nothing for the Centimeter. As a matter of fact, if we stayed with the logic that "no bullet should be pushed past the velocity the manufacturer loads it" we would be stuck with 1100 fps 180 grain XTPs out of a 10mm, or other craptastically weak loads because the FBI deemed this necessary nearly 20 years ago.

Another point is that those of us that reload are always seeking to better factory stats, such as velocity. Velocities and pressures are not always sought for bullet construction, much of it is due to legal liability (take the .45-70 for instance...the .450 Marlin had to have a different case to produce velocities that the .45-70 Gv'ment was capable of due to legal concerns of old guns blowing up...not bullet construction).

If any of you doubt this, I will put up a full power 10mm round with Gold Dots of any given weight to a .40 S&W, and we will see which has more spectacular results in ballistic gelatin. I have done many oddball tests, and velocity only helps a Gold Dot and XTP's performance within reasonable handgun velocities.

Street credibility only means that the round was issued en masse. Anyone want to discuss the merits of a 7.62 ball round on living tissue as opposed to a real expanding hunting bullet? With this logic, one can surmise that the Toyota Corrolla is the best car available due to the shear number of them on the road.

Flawed logic.


I'd pass on 10 mm as well.

I handload myself, but there is a lot of folly among the folks pushing velocity. Old rounds like the .45-70 and .45 Colt and .38 Special (.38-44 anyone?) can be prime candidate for hot rodding, since there is a clear liability reason they are kept downloaded that doesn't apply to shooters in the know with modern, strong firearms. But that hardly applies to something like .357 SIG.

Link Posted: 9/4/2008 6:21:20 PM EST
Get both, but get double tap first. The velocity difference between 3.5in barrel and 4.5in barrel is less than 100fps with the 147g
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 3:56:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By DonS:


I'd pass on 10 mm as well.




That's a shame, passing up on one of the greatest defensive pistol cartridges ever, because of a little speed.

Get the Double Tap and the Speer, try them both and see which one your gun likes.
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 8:01:58 AM EST
.357 Sig was originally designed around a cartridge firing a 125gr bullet @ 1350 FPS.
The slide velocity and spring weights are also designed to operate within those specs. Start changing things, and you're inviting the possibility of a malfunction.


... Besides, every handgun will give different velocities with the same load when chrono'd side by side-- as much as 50-75 fps difference. The extra pressure and velocity just isn't worth it to me


@ kcking - stick with your Corbon DPX ammo!



Link Posted: 9/5/2008 10:26:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:

Originally Posted By DonS:


I'd pass on 10 mm as well.




That's a shame, passing up on one of the greatest defensive pistol cartridges ever, because of a little speed.

Get the Double Tap and the Speer, try them both and see which one your gun likes.


It just isn't worth it. Back in the '80s reading Col. Cooper, I really wanted one. Now, I stick with .45 ACP and I'd consider 9 mm and .40.

I'd buy a 10 for the same reasons I'd buy a .38 Super: for fun, not serious use. That said I'd rather have a .41 Magnum Model 57, or a .45 Colt or .44 Mag. I regret selling my Model 29 . . .
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 12:39:58 PM EST
Surprise surprise, ammotogo now has the HST. I'll buy a box and see what i think of them.
I like the DPX but i'm always looking for something better. I might just stick with DPX but i will try hst.
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