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Posted: 12/3/2007 8:55:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 8:55:45 AM EDT by gringopistolero]
so, Im in the market for a CCW gun. I have and love other glocks, but I want a 19.

should I get a 19 (the standard) or a 19 C?

I really see no downside to the 19C. I have also never shot one.

this would be my everyday carry pistol.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 9:17:18 AM EDT
I and many others on here carry a regular 19. The recoil is not bad enough to make it worth getting a C model, IMHO, at least.

I once asked a police officer a similar question. His response: "Have you ever met a Glock that needed help?"
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 9:30:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gringopistolero:
so, Im in the market for a CCW gun. I have and love other glocks, but I want a 19.

should I get a 19 (the standard) or a 19 C?

I really see no downside to the 19C. I have also never shot one.

this would be my everyday carry pistol.


Get both!
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 9:31:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 9:36:52 AM EDT by LawdogRD10]
I've got a 19C and a 22C. The only downside I've seen is that the 19C seems to dry the lube up pretty fast when shooting. You have to keep it well-oiled. The expelled gases tend to blacken the front sight when shooting more than a couple of mags, so you have to wipe it occasionally. No big deal.

The 19C recoils like a .22 pistol. I got it for my wife to shoot. Otherwise, both are Glocks. What more can I say.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 9:35:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gringopistolero:
I really see no downside to the 19C. I have also never shot one.

this would be my everyday carry pistol.


You do understand that the ports allow hot, burning gasses to exit the top of the weapon every time you fire? This could mean quite a lot of flash (to destroy your night vision and give away your position), as well as hot gasses in your face or clothing (depending upon how desperate of an emergency firing position you find yourself in).

I don't think that anyone should carry a ported gun as their CCW piece. Ports are for competition.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 9:44:06 AM EDT
And...try to shoot extremely close-quarters with the pistol held against your hip/stomach. (Not sure of the right wording for that area.) I had to shoot like that in a qual course once and it was quite painful with, essentially, some of the muzzle blast hitting you in the face.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 9:45:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By gringopistolero:
I really see no downside to the 19C. I have also never shot one.

this would be my everyday carry pistol.


I don't think that anyone should carry a ported gun as their CCW piece. Ports are for competition.


Absolutely correct!! No instructor in defensive firearms worth his salt would recommend a ported gun for carry! Ever try to shoot a ported gun from retention postition? NOT a good thing.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 9:57:47 AM EDT
buy a 19C and have some fun with it...for carry just switch out the barrel to a non ported one. You have two options for that. $100.00 for another barrel.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 10:26:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:
You do understand that the ports allow hot, burning gasses to exit the top of the weapon every time you fire? This could mean quite a lot of flash (to destroy your night vision and give away your position), as well as hot gasses in your face or clothing (depending upon how desperate of an emergency firing position you find yourself in).

I don't think that anyone should carry a ported gun as their CCW piece. Ports are for competition.


+1

Get the regular G19. Ported guns will destroy your night vision and if you're firing from retention (close contact), you will not enjoy getting all the debris and gasses being blown against your body through the ports.



I don't think that anyone should carry a ported gun as their CCW piece. Ports are for competition.

Very well said.


Mike
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 10:38:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 10:40:15 AM EDT by HardShell]
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 10:54:39 AM EDT
This is an old argument, and tired.

Here's the thing Gringo........Most of the opinions you are hearing here are from those who don't carry a pistol for a living, have never carried one for a living, and will never carry one except for a CCW. Further, they probably haven't shot the "C" version, much less owned one.

I have carried a handgun for 19 years, for a living. I have carried a Glock for the last 12 of those. Presently, I carry a 21C, but also carry a 23C off duty. I shoot Master Class, and qualify as such every 6 months, but I did with a revolver as well. Like holsters, ammunition and grips on anything other than a Glock, it is all a personal choice.

While the argument of flash signature will give you away is used, have you ever seen a Glock discharged at twilight or dark? It is going to have a flame of 3-4 inches at the muzzle anyway. That's just what gunpowder does when ignited under pressure. As for the hot gases rising in a cqb situation.....yeah, they will, but it is minimal. I will take a powder burn to a bullet hole any day.

If you absolutely have to make a decision, I suggest the 19C. If you don't like it, or can't shoot it for some reason, sell it; they are in high demand anyway. If you buy it and don't want to carry a comp barrel, buy the std barrel. You will have the best of both.

I didn't mean to step on a bunch of toes here, but damn, this argument is old.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 11:00:24 AM EDT
The "flames from the ports will destroy your night vision....blah, blah, blah" is just speculative blather. Popo's got it right, whether he's stepping on toes or not!
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 11:16:15 AM EDT
A lot of good duty-type ammo will not, per design, have much flash, anyway. Blasting ammo does and it doesn't matter.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 11:49:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Popo:
Here's the thing Gringo........Most of the opinions you are hearing here are from those who don't carry a pistol for a living, have never carried one for a living, and will never carry one except for a CCW. Further, they probably haven't shot the "C" version, much less owned one.


Whatever point you were trying to make, regardless of how valid, was lost on this paragraph.

I choose not to have ports due to:

1. Unnecessary loss of velocity.
2. Unnecessary blast when firing from retention.

If you can't shoot a service caliber handgun effectively without ports, you need more training not gun modifications. Ports are an enhancement not a replacement for skill.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 11:49:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Popo:
Here's the thing Gringo........Most of the opinions you are hearing here are from those who don't carry a pistol for a living, have never carried one for a living, and will never carry one except for a CCW. Further, they probably haven't shot the "C" version, much less owned one.


Here's the thing, Popo . . . you're talking out of your ass. Some of us do carry guns for a living, and have done so in places far more dangerous than any place you could find in Tennessee. STFU.


Originally Posted By LawdogRD10:
A lot of good duty-type ammo will not, per design, have much flash, anyway. Blasting ammo does and it doesn't matter.


Flash at the muzzle is different than flash from a series of ports down the length of the barrel.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 1:17:13 PM EDT
I've found that when firing the 23C, the ports blow a lot of crap onto the front sight, obscuring the dot completely. Probably not a big deal during the day, but I'd rather not cover my night sights.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 1:31:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By Popo:
Here's the thing Gringo........Most of the opinions you are hearing here are from those who don't carry a pistol for a living, have never carried one for a living, and will never carry one except for a CCW. Further, they probably haven't shot the "C" version, much less owned one.


Here's the thing, Popo . . . you're talking out of your ass. Some of us do carry guns for a living, and have done so in places far more dangerous than any place you could find in Tennessee. STFU.


+1
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 1:39:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 1:43:59 PM EDT by Popo]
height=8
Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:
Here's the thing, Popo . . . you're talking out of your ass. Some of us do carry guns for a living, and have done so in places far more dangerous than any place you could find in Tennessee. STFU.


The Computer Badass finally arrived. You know only what someone has told you. I didn't see anything in your statement(s) claiming to have owned or fired a compensated Glock. Until you do, go fuck yourself.

height=8
ShakenNotStirred: Flash at the muzzle is different than flash from a series of ports down the length of the barrel.

Further proof you know nothing of which you speak. Two ports at the muzzle of the barrel does not constitute ports down the length of the barrel.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 1:59:12 PM EDT
Wowza.... here's my opinion FWIW.
I own a 31, 32c and 33. Oddly enough, I currently carry a XD45 for CCW. Anyhow, back on point. My 32C does put out quite a bit of flash on the range, with practice ammo. I have shot defensive ammo at night and it isn't bad. Either way you look at it, the muzzle flash is still going to be there wether it's up and forward, or just forward. If you're using a flashlight or anything like that (which is a good idea at night anyways), your nightvision is going to be dimished anyhow. My best advice, get whatever ammo you plan on shooting, take it to a range that has both weapons, and find out what you can do to verify the muzzle blast. I asked a range when I purchased my G32C and they completely shut off the lights (minus a small Photon for loading, etc) and let me shoot a magazine through each firearm. Funny thing is now (last time I was up north) the range does night-shooting to help those so inclined to learn how to shoot at night.

It's easier to buy the G19C and then a BarSto standard barrel than it is to go the other route.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 2:01:47 PM EDT
funny i just came in from firing my 19c in the dark, the flash from the ports was cool but didnt bug my site picture. I used 5 types of high end PDF ammo including some +p stuff. I like my 19c,and the super quick follow up shots. It will be my CCW weapon. I do have to buy another barrel for IDPA. I dont think you can go wrong either way.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 2:51:38 PM EDT
I just started carrying a 22C on duty after using a 22 for years. Last week we qualified at night and conducted point shooting and close quarter drills. I did not have any problem with excessive muzzle flash with duty ammo nor suffered any burns from hot gas in close quarter drills. Besides myself 3 other instructors were using 22c and 23c. The only thing anyone mentioned was the front sights became blackened after a few mags.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 3:11:49 PM EDT
i'd get the regular G19

i'm one of those that would rather keep comp HGs for competition/non-duty use

can comped guns be used for CCW? sure

a lot of folks, including myself, believe that comped guns have increased muzzle flash which can screw w/ night vision, etc

imo, it does; does a regular, non-C version also have the same problem? sure can; h/w, the determining factor of excessive flash can also be traced to what types of ammo one uses (for example: a load w/ low flash in a C version will have less flash than a diff load w/ that may have excessive flash in a non-C version)

another point is that flash and debis (unburned powder, flakes, etc) does exit those top ports--a direction that isnt necessary and lessened w/ a std non-C as the flash and any debris goes forwards (away from you) and not forwards and upwards (a higher chance of it going towards you from certain firing positions, such as close to the body, point shooting, etc)

imo, why heighten the chance of possibly having more negative features in a duty firearm? YMMV

some also claim that the debis that can exit from a C version (since it tends to fly upward and back to the shooter--as anyone who's shot a "c" version can say, flakes do end up building up on the arms and hands and sometimes the face), its not harmful and doesnt even come close to piercing skin

imo, in a life/death shoot, one shouldnt have to even worry about the increased possibility of one of those pieces of debris from possibly entering the eye or something--a non-c version just cuts that variable out to baiscally nil

as to having your front sight eventually getting blocked out from the buildup of powder/debris, thats true; h/w, it takes more than several rnds for the buildup to even become noticible to affect sight picture imo, more shots that in an avg gunfight...so it might not even be a concern at all

a non-C version does take a lot longer to accumulate the amt of dirt onto the top of the slide imo

C versions do have loss of velocities (~25-75FPS), but not enough to affect terminal ballistics w/ most loads imo

increased noise, "increased" muzzle blast, etc imo are generally negligible and dependent on ammo also

the C does recoil smoother; h/w, the G19, as is, is hardly a harsh recoling gun and is easy to control--all one has to do is get use to it and shoot it (as w/ any other gun)

Link Posted: 12/3/2007 3:29:22 PM EDT
It's a 9mm, if you cannot handle the recoil of a 9mm without ports, then you have other issues.

Link Posted: 12/3/2007 3:36:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 3:42:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dog1:
It's a 9mm, if you cannot handle the recoil of a 9mm without ports, then you have other issues.



This is ridiculous, it has nothing to do with the flipping recoil. It's a nine that you can shoot a hell of a lot faster into a smaller area, not as much as a 22lr, but damn close. It will not affect night vision and the people who talk about shooting with a close retention, well the revolvers have burned me, a ported semi-auto has never. I don't have them because they dry your slide out faster than I will tolerate.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 3:45:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Popo:
The Computer Badass finally arrived. You know only what someone has told you. I didn't see anything in your statement(s) claiming to have owned or fired a compensated Glock. Until you do, go fuck yourself.


Oh, so now I'm the Computer Badass??? You were the one talking smack about only YOU being professional enough to comment on this topic!! Sounds like another LEO that has a video of him floating around on the Internet somewhere . . .



Further proof you know nothing of which you speak. Two ports at the muzzle of the barrel does not constitute ports down the length of the barrel.


You're right. It's been years since I fired a buddy's G19C (or was it a 23C?) . . . and I was visualizing the Arotek units. I'm sorry if I'm not in the Compensator Illuminati . . . but the wise NCO's who have trained me never felt that we needed extra compensation for a pathetic 9mm round. Maybe you're compensating for a lack of something else . . .

In any event, and back on topic . . . whether or not to CCW a compensated Glock is the OP's decision, and he deserves to receive both points of view. I stand firm on the position that a compensated gun is a BAD CHOICE for CCW or defensive work.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 3:48:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By Dog1:
It's a 9mm, if you cannot handle the recoil of a 9mm without ports, then you have other issues.



This is ridiculous, it has nothing to do with the flipping recoil.


99% of the ported guns that are sold, are sold for that reason. Cause people are afraid of the recoil, not for faster follow-up shots or the like.

Link Posted: 12/3/2007 3:48:43 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By BAMA47:
I just started carrying a 22C on duty after using a 22 for years. Last week we qualified at night and conducted point shooting and close quarter drills. I did not have any problem with excessive muzzle flash with duty ammo nor suffered any burns from hot gas in close quarter drills. Besides myself 3 other instructors were using 22c and 23c. The only thing anyone mentioned was the front sights became blackened after a few mags.here
Bear in mind that the recoil is not the issue, it is muzzle flip. In the line of duty or on the range, the porting allows a faster recovery time and second shot placement. All that macho bullshit is out the window when talking about recoil.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 3:53:31 PM EDT
LOL cant we argue about something more important? Like 9mm vs45 vs40?
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 4:01:00 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:
height=8
Originally Posted By Popo:
The Computer Badass finally arrived. You know only what someone has told you. I didn't see anything in your statement(s) claiming to have owned or fired a compensated Glock. Until you do, go fuck yourself.


Oh, so now I'm the Computer Badass??? You were the one talking smack about only YOU being professional enough to comment on this topic!! Sounds like another LEO that has a video of him floating around on the Internet somewhere . . . height=8

Further proof you know nothing of which you speak. Two ports at the muzzle of the barrel does not constitute ports down the length of the barrel.


You're right. It's been years since I fired a buddy's G19C (or was it a 23C?) . . . and I was visualizing the Arotek units. I'm sorry if I'm not in the Compensator Illuminati . . . but the wise NCO's who have trained me never felt that we needed extra compensation for a pathetic 9mm round. Maybe you're compensating for a lack of something else . . .

In any event, and back on topic . . . whether or not to CCW a compensated Glock is the OP's decision, and he deserves to receive both points of view. I stand firm on the position that a compensated gun is a BAD CHOICE for CCW or defensive work.


Learn to read, asswipe. I never once said I was the only one qualified, but I am Goddamned sure qualified to address the topic on a professional level. This ain't the jungle and this ain't the desert, and I could give a flying fuck less where you ever carried a pistol or who taught you where the trigger was. All I can tell you is that I have carried a handgun more years than not, and the environment that I was trained in, and worked in, closely resembles that which he plans on carrying in.

My position (along with other trained law enforcement professionals here) is that your arguments don't hold water and the "c" version is an excellent choice. My personal preferrence is something heavier than a 9 mm, but that is a whole 'nuther discussion for a whole 'nuther day.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 4:05:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dog1:
99% of the ported guns that are sold, are sold for that reason. Cause people are afraid of the recoil, not for faster follow-up shots or the like.


The c is better for follow up shot, if the op wanted it to get one for other reasons, well I don't know what to say, other than thats sad
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 4:25:32 PM EDT


Lemme run this through the Universal Translator . . .


Originally Posted By Popo:
Learn to read, asswipe. I never once said I was the only one qualified, but I am Goddamned sure qualified to address the topic on a professional level. This ain't the jungle and this ain't the desert, and I could give a flying fuck less where you ever carried a pistol or who taught you where the trigger was. All I can tell you is that I have carried a handgun more years than not, and the environment that I was trained in, and worked in, closely resembles that which he plans on carrying in.

Because I am the 2nd Deputy Assistant Park Ranger in Podunkia, TN, I am far more qualified to speak on this issue that anyone other than a member of TTBL™ (The Thin Blue Line™). No one is as professional as we! Pay no attention to anyone with experience but no badge!! They are all posers!! WE ARE THE ONLY AUTHORITIES YOU EVER NEED!!!

Now . . . HUNH!! Lemme wipe away deez donut crumbs . . . HUNH!!!! Lemme see if I can find my compensated pistol on my belt . . . HUNH!!! Damn belly . . . HUNHH!!!! Thank you . . . thankyouverymuch!!


My position (along with other trained law enforcement professionals here) is that your arguments don't hold water and the "c" version is an excellent choice. My personal preferrence is something heavier than a 9 mm, but that is a whole 'nuther discussion for a whole 'nuther day.

Mellow Citizens, the Protectors of the Realm (TTBL™) have spoken!!! Go back to your peasant labor or we shall say NIE!!!!!!!!


Link Posted: 12/3/2007 5:51:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Popo:
Learn to read, asswipe.

Do we have a COC violation here?
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 5:57:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Popo:

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By Popo:
The Computer Badass finally arrived. You know only what someone has told you. I didn't see anything in your statement(s) claiming to have owned or fired a compensated Glock. Until you do, go fuck yourself.


Oh, so now I'm the Computer Badass??? You were the one talking smack about only YOU being professional enough to comment on this topic!! Sounds like another LEO that has a video of him floating around on the Internet somewhere . . .



Further proof you know nothing of which you speak. Two ports at the muzzle of the barrel does not constitute ports down the length of the barrel.


You're right. It's been years since I fired a buddy's G19C (or was it a 23C?) . . . and I was visualizing the Arotek units. I'm sorry if I'm not in the Compensator Illuminati . . . but the wise NCO's who have trained me never felt that we needed extra compensation for a pathetic 9mm round. Maybe you're compensating for a lack of something else . . .

In any event, and back on topic . . . whether or not to CCW a compensated Glock is the OP's decision, and he deserves to receive both points of view. I stand firm on the position that a compensated gun is a BAD CHOICE for CCW or defensive work.


Learn to read, asswipe. I never once said I was the only one qualified, but I am Goddamned sure qualified to address the topic on a professional level. This ain't the jungle and this ain't the desert, and I could give a flying fuck less where you ever carried a pistol or who taught you where the trigger was. All I can tell you is that I have carried a handgun more years than not, and the environment that I was trained in, and worked in, closely resembles that which he plans on carrying in.

My position (along with other trained law enforcement professionals here) is that your arguments don't hold water and the "c" version is an excellent choice. My personal preferrence is something heavier than a 9 mm, but that is a whole 'nuther discussion for a whole 'nuther day.


With this tone, you will not last long here....
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 6:00:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 6:00:58 PM EDT by 82ndAbn]
82nd
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