Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 8/10/2005 4:24:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 4:24:33 AM EDT by CockedandLocked]
Never heard of it with a 92FS or a Ruger P90.

Please excuse my ignorance here... just inquiring. Saw a cop with a 92 and hammer was down so why the 1911?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:17:08 AM EDT
1911 isn't double action. You have to carry it that way unless you want to rack the slide in an emergency.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:19:57 AM EDT
Because the 1911 isn't a DA. Pulling the trigger with the hammer down won't cock it, you must have it back to fire, hence you carry it "cocked and locked".

The beavertail saftey must be depressed for the hammer to fall so it's not a saftey issue (but you'll find people that have never seen anything but DA autos get freaked by it).
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:22:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Because the 1911 isn't a DA. Pulling the trigger with the hammer down won't cock it, you must have it back to fire, hence you carry it "cocked and locked".

The beavertail saftey must be depressed for the hammer to fall so it's not a saftey issue (but you'll find people that have never seen anything but DA autos get freaked by it).



I was at first... thats right... my P90 is DA so I GET IT!!! I jsut recently got in the whole 1911 habit and asking questions.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:23:17 AM EDT
Teh 1911 was designed to be carried cocked and locked. The single action trigger is more condusive to accurate first shot placement than the double action trigger system.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:28:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sysop:
Teh 1911 was designed to be carried cocked and locked. The single action trigger is more condusive to accurate first shot placement than the double action trigger system.



Yup. I'll usually carry my USP45 and Beretta 9000 in Condition 1 just for that reason. Motions to fire are exactly the same as a 1911 (thumb down to release the safety) so it's not a problem. Makes up for the Godawful long DA pull on the 9000.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:59:59 AM EDT
Because that's how God wanted it.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 1:35:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 1:36:07 AM EDT
Chamber loaded, hammer back, safety on.


Anything else is fucking unnatural.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 1:36:39 AM EDT
Same reason there's no D in Frige..........just because!
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 1:42:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 2:24:09 AM EDT by MuRDoC]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Chamber loaded, hammer back, safety on.


Anything else is fucking unnatural.





+1


but how do you guys feel about carrying it how JMB had designed it, with no grip safety
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:34:12 AM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:37:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Chamber loaded, hammer back, safety on.


Anything else is fucking unnatural.



Do Glocks count?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:39:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Chamber loaded, hammer back, safety on.


Anything else is fucking unnatural.



Do Glocks count?




well, yea my glock counts, it's my carry piece
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:54:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:59:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 12:24:21 PM EDT by MuRDoC]
no tweak, I'm not saying that, and no not the 06, browning never had the thumb saftey and thats how his personal 45 was back then
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:09:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
but how do you guys feel about carrying it how JMB had designed it, with no grip safety

Why would you want to carry it without the grip safety? It adds nothing to the trigger pull, and any normal firing grip on the pistol will deactivate it. I dont see a downside to it.

Kharn
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:10:28 AM EDT
Drfrige, the Beretta and the Ruger cannot be safe in the CnL condition.

I thought the original JMB 1911 design had a grip safety, but no thumb safety and the Army added the thumb safety.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:13:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Chamber loaded, hammer back, safety on.


Anything else is fucking unnatural.


What a pussy thing to use.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:24:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m193:
Drfrige, the Beretta and the Ruger cannot be safe in the CnL condition.

I thought the original JMB 1911 design had a grip safety, but no thumb safety and the Army added the thumb safety.




you know, I think you might be right, I got to check on it, I org put that, but went back and edited it
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:50:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 3:51:49 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
otherwise, you are carrying an EMPTY GUN.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:54:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:02:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 4:06:46 AM EDT by 1MissouriMule]

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
but how do you guys feel about carrying it how JMB had designed it, with no grip safety



The 1906?

www.sightm1911.com/1911pix/historic/1905%20Colt%20.45%20ACP.gif

that's like saying we should carry AR-3s bc those came before the AR15.




Oh Shit....not eh creationism and the evolution thing again!!!!!!!!!

JMB is the one and only true gun god...all others are just something different...
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:05:01 AM EDT



Originally Posted By DrFrige:
Never heard of it with a 92FS or a Ruger P90.

Please excuse my ignorance here... just inquiring. Saw a cop with a 92 and hammer was down so why the 1911?



I know the 1911. But, what are these others things of which you speak?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:23:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 4:27:17 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
Never heard of it with a 92FS or a Ruger P90.

Please excuse my ignorance here... just inquiring. Saw a cop with a 92 and hammer was down so why the 1911?



Because an uncocked 1911 is:

1. Useless for personal defense
2. Dangerous

Whereas a cocked and locked 1911 is perfectly safe and ready for instant use. It was designed to be carried in a ready to fire condition.

DA designs like the Beretta 92 have no safety active when the hammer is cocked. (Save for the FP safety) whereas the 1911 has the grip and thumb safeties that are ONLY effective when the weapon is cocked.

DA designs like the CZ-75 and USP can be carried cocked and locked, but they are the exception.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:23:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:23:42 AM EDT
is there any other way to carry besides C&L
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:53:39 AM EDT
Yeah, yeah, I read the other posts, but here's my 2 cents:

As mentioned before, carrying a 1911 any way other than cocked 'n locked is useless.

There is not way to safely lower the hammer on a loaded chamber, and even if there was it would still render the gun useless as a defensive weapon. Just when you think you can lower the hammer using any combination of hands, thumbs, and teeth, the hammer will slip and you will place a hole in something.

If there is no round in the chamber you must rack the slide in order to ready the weapon for action. This is useless in a defensive situation.

The 1911 with its manual safety, grip safety, and trigger guard is about as safe a firearm platform as anyone could ask for.

I always frown a little when I see a picture of a 1911 with the hammer down.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:10:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:33:16 AM EDT
The most important reason for carrying C&L in my opinion is that it allows deployment and triggering of the weapon with only one hand.

There are ways to rack the slide one-handed but they are not particularly safe or effective, and are not techniques I'd want to count on in an emergency.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:05:47 AM EDT
It IS A SAFETY ISSUE. If you carried a 1911 with a round chambered and the hammer dropped the gun could go off due to a slam fire. If the gun was dropped and fell on the exposed hammer you got problems.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:02:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrMurphy:
It IS A SAFETY ISSUE. If you carried a 1911 with a round chambered and the hammer dropped the gun could go off due to a slam fire. If the gun was dropped and fell on the exposed hammer you got problems.



Um, no... With a series 80 pistol the firing pin is blocked until the trigger is pulled plus it has all the safety features of the pre series 80 pistols. The firing pin is light in weight and held back from the primer by a heavy spring = no slam fires if dropped on the muzzle. The thumb safety physically blocks the hammer with a chunk of steel, no little sear blockers here. As long as the thumb safety is on the hammer is going nowhere.

Kent
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:04:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
The most important reason for carrying C&L in my opinion is that it allows deployment and triggering of the weapon with only one hand.

There are ways to rack the slide one-handed but they are not particularly safe or effective, and are not techniques I'd want to count on in an emergency.




+1
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:51:14 AM EDT
I once caught a fellow LEO carrying a 1911, hammer down and chamber empty. I told him that he needed to get into another profession, because he would likely get killed in this one.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:37:03 PM EDT
It never ceases to amaze me how a Rifle Company, locked and loaded is "safe" but a 1911 in the same condition is not… Same would apply to a hunter.

I guess uninformed people have a fear of a hammer.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:50:40 PM EDT
if one of your hands gets shot or blown off it'd be hard to rack the slide and charge a 1911, lock and cock is the way to go
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 1:00:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By m193:
Drfrige, the Beretta and the Ruger cannot be safe in the CnL condition.

I thought the original JMB 1911 design had a grip safety, but no thumb safety and the Army added the thumb safety.




you know, I think you might be right, I got to check on it, I org put that, but went back and edited it



No, the US Army asked for a grip safety (considering that teh Cavalry would benefit from such a feature).

From Tweak's link:

During the trials, several alterations were made to the original design such as a single swinging link, an improved manual safety, and the inclusion of a grip safety and a slide stop.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 1:05:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Green_Canoe:

Originally Posted By MrMurphy:
It IS A SAFETY ISSUE. If you carried a 1911 with a round chambered and the hammer dropped the gun could go off due to a slam fire. If the gun was dropped and fell on the exposed hammer you got problems.



Um, no... With a series 80 pistol the firing pin is blocked until the trigger is pulled plus it has all the safety features of the pre series 80 pistols. The firing pin is light in weight and held back from the primer by a heavy spring = no slam fires if dropped on the muzzle. The thumb safety physically blocks the hammer with a chunk of steel, no little sear blockers here. As long as the thumb safety is on the hammer is going nowhere.

Kent



Let's assume we're not talking about a Series 80 Colt. Are you talking about the "plunger" safety under the slide? My MC Operator doesn't have that do-hickey. My Kimber Eclipse does however. So is it safe (no pun intended) to say that I could have a problem if I carried my Operator chambered, hammer down and dropped it on the hammer? Would never carry that way, just trying to become a little more educated.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 1:37:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 1:38:13 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:16:32 PM EDT
I'd prefer having a grip safety.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:45:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Chamber loaded, hammer back, safety on.


Anything else is fucking unnatural.



Do Glocks count?




Sure they do. Simple people need a gun to love
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:51:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sigurd:
Because that's how God wanted it.


Amen.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:24:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Chamber loaded, hammer back, safety on.


Anything else is fucking unnatural.





+1


but how do you guys feel about carrying it how JMB had designed it, with no grip safety




1905
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=40591

1907
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=40592<---grip safety

1909
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=40593

1910
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=40594

1911
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=40596




SGB,

What's the differencebetween the Model 1910 and the Model 1911?

Justin
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:44:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 5:45:17 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:58:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:


SGB,

What's the differencebetween the Model 1910 and the Model 1911?

Justin




The 1910 has no plunger tube assembly or thumb safety.



Damn, I thought that was a bad photo or something!

It looked like the plunger tube/thumb safety was just blocked out by bad (or no) lighting.

I assumed that the Model 1910 was equipped with an external extractor, hence why I asked.

Having known that, which would you rather have in hindsight?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:35:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By zoe17:
is there any other way to carry besides C&L



You can train to carry in Condition Three, you have to incorporate racking the slide into your draw stroke aka the so called Israeli method. Not the fastest but more fumble free than trying to cock a Condition Two piece.

www.smartcarry.com/cocklock.htm





Thanks Tweak... GREAT article... actually printed and saved it as well.

I see what a lot of you guys are saying and what you mean. You know what else I noticed? Ever since my 1911 purchase & Mall Ninja helping me out with my shooting skills, my other handgun shooting skills have improved. COOL!!
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:23:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Green_Canoe:

Originally Posted By MrMurphy:
It IS A SAFETY ISSUE. If you carried a 1911 with a round chambered and the hammer dropped the gun could go off due to a slam fire. If the gun was dropped and fell on the exposed hammer you got problems.



Um, no... With a series 80 pistol the firing pin is blocked until the trigger is pulled plus it has all the safety features of the pre series 80 pistols. The firing pin is light in weight and held back from the primer by a heavy spring = no slam fires if dropped on the muzzle. The thumb safety physically blocks the hammer with a chunk of steel, no little sear blockers here. As long as the thumb safety is on the hammer is going nowhere.

Kent



Ok lemme get this straight. If I chamber a round in my 1911 and then manually lower the hammer you're telling me that if I then dropped that pistol on the exposed hammer the gun would NOT go off?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:10:16 PM EDT

Ok lemme get this straight. If I chamber a round in my 1911 and then manually lower the hammer you're telling me that if I then dropped that pistol on the exposed hammer the gun would NOT go off?



correct
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:33:59 PM EDT
Not only that, but if you were decocking the 1911 by pulling trigger, holding the hammer back, then releasing the trigger once the hammer was released - then your thumb slipped and the hammer fell, it would still not go off, it wouldn't even drop all the way, let alone hit the blocked firing pin.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:41:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Ok lemme get this straight. If I chamber a round in my 1911 and then manually lower the hammer you're telling me that if I then dropped that pistol on the exposed hammer the gun would NOT go off?



correct



Is this true for all 1911's or just the newer ones with the plunger type safety under the slide?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:59:11 AM EDT
Dang, I dun learnt sumtin new. Thanks for posting the variations, I didnt know it progressed like that. I love the 1911, I have owned newer designs but keep going back to the 1911. I probably always will.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top