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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 11/1/2009 12:22:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 12:23:47 PM EST by millsusaf]
I'm at the range practicing some drills when my 1911 LOCKS UP tight, the trigger pulled, the hammer fell and it locked up. There is a round in the chamber, the firing pin appears to be pressed in, the hammer is cocked (it would do that) but the trigger will not move and the slide will only move about 1/16", but not enough to do anything positive for the situation.

It is possible that the round in the chamber is a training round I made (caulk for a primer) but I have a hard time believing the caulk has captured the firing pin messing the whole system up. I didn't have any issues with any of the other training rounds.

What can I do? Take out the barrel bushing/recoil spring.....trying not to shoot myself?

Thanks

BTW, it was a great feeling when I realized I now wasn't carrying. Note to self, always take more than one carry gun to the range.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 12:35:25 PM EST
TAKE OFF THE SAFETY!!!

just kidding, that really does sound messed up.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 12:40:21 PM EST
LOL, the safety is actually the only thing that will function on the gun...that and the mag release.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:04:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 1:05:21 PM EST by skipsan]
G.I. style guide rod?? Can you attempt to rack the slide back by forcing the bottom half of the slide(muzzle end) against something very solid with the hammer either down or locked back? Muzzle obviously pointed in a very safe direction. I've had rounds stuck in the chamber by slivers of lead that wedged between the round and chamber that effectively locked the pistol up. Took a LOT of force against the grip to unlock the barrel and rack the slide . If you have a flgr, disregard.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:17:30 PM EST
First thing I would do is remove the mainspring housing. That will at least make things relatively safer.
Obviously keep it pointed in a safe direction regardles.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:46:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By NVGdude:
First thing I would do is remove the mainspring housing. That will at least make things relatively safer.
Obviously keep it pointed in a safe direction regardles.


THIS.... Safest thing then I would get in touch with a good gunsmith do not risk shooting yourself or someone else.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:49:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By NVGdude:
First thing I would do is remove the mainspring housing. That will at least make things relatively safer.
Obviously keep it pointed in a safe direction regardles.





Actually, that sounds like a pretty darned good start. From that point, if enough of the tension is taken off the pins what would prevent him from being able to remove the grips, remove the safety/hammer pin/sear pin? Should be able to pretty much get all of the firing components stripped out of the frame should you not?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:03:05 PM EST
Muzzle end of the slide against something solid hit your hand against the grip frame.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 3:41:36 PM EST
Thanks for that tip. I was pretty sure it was a training round and it was. After taking off the MSH I took the barrel bushing/recoil spring out and the rest if it came apart easily.

Here is what the deal was.



For what ever reason the firing pin stuck in the protruded position. Once I took a punch and hammer to the firing pin plunger the firing pin shot out the back. I've still to figure out why it happened though. More on that later I guess.

Now I'm on to bigger and more frustrating things. Long story short the pistol frame is completely apart. I have a piece that I don't know what it is. None of the assembly videos I've found show this piece. I know it goes in with the disconnecter because of the small hole but where and what it is for alludes me. I believe this part is the reason the safety will not function when I assemble it.



Also does anyone know why I couldn't get my trigger to come out?

Thanks

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:12:50 PM EST
that is a lever for a series 80 colt safety. it is 1 of 2 extra parts in the frame.

only way to remove the trigger is to remove the magazine release first.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:19:14 PM EST
Sounds like it locked up because the firing pin created an interference fit with the primer pocket of the shell. It prevented the shell from sliding down the breech face during unlock where the barrel swings down and the shell's case head slides along the breech face.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 5:24:05 PM EST
Good lord this has been a CLUSTER. I got the frame all back together after filing the bur on the frame that was keeping the safety from functioning but I still have issues.

The ejector is bent and I can't for the life of me get the extractor out. The firing pin stop, firing pin and spring are out but the extractor will not come out.

There seems to be something going on between the firing pin plunger and the extractor. This might be the failure that brought the original issue.

Any suggestions for the best ejector or the other issue?

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 5:40:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By millsusaf:
Thanks for that tip. I was pretty sure it was a training round and it was. After taking off the MSH I took the barrel bushing/recoil spring out and the rest if it came apart easily.

Here is what the deal was.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h176/millsusaf/CIMG6839.jpg

For what ever reason the firing pin stuck in the protruded position. Once I took a punch and hammer to the firing pin plunger the firing pin shot out the back. I've still to figure out why it happened though. More on that later I guess.

Now I'm on to bigger and more frustrating things. Long story short the pistol frame is completely apart. I have a piece that I don't know what it is. None of the assembly videos I've found show this piece. I know it goes in with the disconnecter because of the small hole but where and what it is for alludes me. I believe this part is the reason the safety will not function when I assemble it.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h176/millsusaf/CIMG6840.jpg

Also does anyone know why I couldn't get my trigger to come out?

Thanks



Receiver assembly. Try This. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=18&t=81990

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 5:42:26 PM EST
Bent


Link Posted: 11/1/2009 5:52:55 PM EST
There's a plunger in the slide that is the FPS, it holds in the extractor when in place.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 10:02:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 10:17:06 PM EST
if it is a training round the firing pin in probably stuck in the primer
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 11:58:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By millsusaf:
Any suggestions ?

Thanks


Buy a Glock...?




'sorry man... Cheap shot

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 3:37:11 AM EST
After some sleep to clear the head and a little more searching over a bowl of cereal this morning I think I found the issue.

The firing pin plunger didn't come out when I removed the firing pin. On the disassembly video I watched it does...pop out actually. So I'm thinking something is lodged in there keeping it from coming out. Naturally because of this, the extractor will not come out either.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Drill the firing pin plunger?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:17:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:26:14 AM EST
Update:

I was finally able to get the firing pin plunger out. I had to use pliers to pull it out. Then the extractor came out with some force by prying it with a screw driver.

The extractor is FUBAR. It will not slide freely into it's hole. I could force it with a little bit of effort but I don't think that is cool. I took apart my other 1911 (I'm starting to be an expert at this, hhahahaha) and its extractor slide effortlessly into the hole of slide A pointing to the extractor of gun A.

I'll be ordering another extractor today I guess. Are there any extractors I should be looking at that are better than the rest? Is there any other parts I should look at replacing for regular maintenance type stuff?

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:40:57 AM EST
I dont think that extractors should be able to move "effortlessly." There's usually some tension that holds them in place. Its not uncommon to have to "pry" them out. It shouldn't take much effort but they shouldn't fall out either.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:31:27 AM EST
TAKE THE GUN TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW A 1911 WORKS.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:57:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:05:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 8:05:48 AM EST by Spook410]
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
TAKE THE GUN TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW A 1911 WORKS.


I get the logic of this and if you rely on a weapon as a primary SD gun you probably need to get things resolved quickly and completely. However, there is something to be said for learning how your 1911 works and being able to do things that don't require grinding or hammering yourself. IMHO, it's part of the pleasure in owning a 1911.
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Caveat: I have read a lot but have very little actual experience working on 1911's (or any other firearm) other than tuning extractors and replacing safeties and I got a lot of help around here doing that. So, please bear in mind the source when you get advice.

The Series 80 has some unique parts that were added in the name of safety. If you look at the difference between a Series 70 and Series 80 extractor you'll see that it has an extra cutout for this. If you removed the firing pin stop and the firing pin failed to pop out on it's own, it's being held captive by something. It's a pretty stout spring so it would have to be something substantial. Usually you have to watch that it doesn't take your eye out. Maybe there is an additional step on a Series 80 as I've never taken one of these apart. It's OK that your extractor is snug. You need to study the diagram SGB provided and understand how the extra pieces in a Series 80 are supposed to interact. Then you can sleuth out what is not moving when it's supposed to move.

You might want to figure out what is holding your firing pin in place *without the use of a hammer*. Put the screwdriver/prybar and hammers away. Push on the extractor from the inside of the frame with a brass punch. If you can't push it out without tapping on the punch (gently) with a hammer, the hole may be require cleaning out. A good bit of advice I once got was 'as long as you don't hammer or grind anything you'll be OK'.

Don't be surprised if some of the caulk you used ended up coming free and gumming up the works. Can't you just leave the spent primer in there or leave the pocket empty? It doesn't hurt these pistols to be dry fired with nothing in the chamber. The caulk doesn't help anything and can only screw things up if some gets into the works.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:22:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
TAKE THE GUN TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW A 1911 WORKS.


I GUESS SELF RELIANCE IS FOR SISSIES HUH?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:31:59 AM EST
DOES THE EXTRACTOR PASS THE TENSION TEST? if yes no need to purchase a new one.
if this is a colt you could just retension the extractor, if it is a para do you know if you have the new design or the older design extractor. old design will not work with new design.

YOU HAVE TO KNOW YOUR LIMITATIONS OR YOUR JUST THROWING MONEY AND BREAKING SHIT WHEN IT DOES NOT NEED THIS. IF YOUR OK WITH THIS FINE.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:41:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
TAKE THE GUN TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW A 1911 WORKS.


I GUESS SELF RELIANCE IS FOR SISSIES HUH?


Self reliance is about being a realist and a good planner. This includes recognizing your skill level and what represents a kitchen table problem versus a trip to the smith. The answer to the latter is often dependent on individual skills and tools.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:51:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
TAKE THE GUN TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW A 1911 WORKS.


But that would be cheating.

I'd order a new pre series 80 firing pin as well as the extractor, leave the FPS plunger out, and replace the lifting arm with the shim that Brownells has for this purpose.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:52:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
TAKE THE GUN TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW A 1911 WORKS.


I GUESS SELF RELIANCE IS FOR SISSIES HUH?


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:34:52 AM EST
Thanks guys! I'm VERY big on being self reliant and most definitely wanted to figure this out for myself....with your and Google's help of course. I'm not even opposed to grinding and such once I know for sure what I'm doing. I had many of the same similar questions when I started with ARs. Now I'd consider myself almost an expert with them and have certainly furthered my knowledge of 1911s MUCH more than it was 24 hours ago. For most of that I have you all to thank.

I figured out what all the mystery parts were, what their purpose is, and most importantly where they went. hahahah I've got everything back together and it all function checks 100% and does eject spent brass. The only filing I did as a very little on the extractor to smooth out some very slight burs that I think were causing the extractor to be so difficult to install and remove. It still requires a very light touch with the screw driver to pry it out but not much.

It's role to defend our lives will however be put on hold until I can get back to the range to put some rounds through her so she can prove herself to me again.

This has been a very eye opening experience. Now I need to do some research on the other handguns in the family. I don't want to be in a SHTF situation and not have a clue how the gun's parts works.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:50:15 PM EST
You'd better dry fire that A LOT, as in dozens of times, to make sure the FP doesn't stick again.

1911s can be safely dry fired without a snap cap. Do it.
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