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Posted: 5/13/2005 7:49:15 AM EST
I've read good things about SXT's as man-stoppers and my XD40 5" likes them both, but they've been a bit too expensive for me to stock up on at 14=16 bucks a box. I just saw them at the guide for $11.37 a box with is easier for me to stomach. Now that I have a choice (usually stores I go to have jsut one), which one should I go for and why?

Winchester® Supreme® SXT™ .40 S&W® 165 Gr. *SXT 20 rds.

Winchester® Supreme® SXT™ .40 S&W® 180 Gr. *SXT 20 rds.
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 8:42:14 AM EST
Neither.

Ranger-t's are a better load, and I bought a case (500 rounds) of .40 180 ranger-t's for $150....


Link Posted: 5/13/2005 8:42:35 AM EST
I would stick with the 165 gr bullets. I have carried 165 gr. sxt's and rem golden sabers. The 165 is a good mid weight bullet in the caliber that offers greater velocity than 180gr. You need all the velocity you can get in a handgun. 165 gr is a respectable weight and gives good penetration. You can also have more problems with the 180 grain bullet should you encounter any bullet setback.
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 8:43:39 AM EST
Neither.

The SXT is not one of the rounds in .40 ammo that meet accepted minimum penetration and expansion standards. I recommend you check out the most recent test results from Dr. Roberts over at Tactical Forums

Gold Dots are usually relatively cheap and meet the performance standards. You may want to try those.
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 8:51:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:


Gold Dots are usually relatively cheap and meet the performance standards. You may want to try those.



I second the motion.

Everything I read - every single piece of scientifically valid comparison - points to Gold Dots and ranger-t's as being neck-and-neck in performance.

I carry Gold Dots in the .45 - because i got a good supply cheap - and ranger-t's in the .40 and 9mm - because I got a good supply cheap.



<---wants the best there is

<--not above saving a dollar when i can do so WITHOUT COMPROMISING PERFORMANCE.

FWIW, handguns don't need 'all the velocity they can get'. It's a myth.

When I carried a .40, at the time I constantly found myself in rural areas, often dispatching stray varmints, and like the slightly flatter trajectory of the lighter bullets, but I finally decided to forget trajectory and go with whatis most reliable under the widest variety of conditions, which is almost always the heavier loads (147/180/230)

Link Posted: 5/13/2005 8:53:50 AM EST
I read from Ayoob that sxt's were one of the top choices available.... maybe that was only for 9mm?
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 8:58:47 AM EST
Ayoob may know a good bit about gun use, but he gets his terminal ballistics info from other gun writers. Ignore his advice and go with what the scientifically valid tests found to work.
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 9:00:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2005 9:00:15 AM EST by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Neither.

Ranger-t's are a better load, and I bought a case (500 rounds) of .40 180 ranger-t's for $150....





Pray tell, where might others of us find such a deal?
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 9:12:26 AM EST
I always go with the heaviest bullet. They'll always penetrate much deeper and crush through bone better than faster lighter bullets.
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 9:18:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Neither.

Ranger-t's are a better load, and I bought a case (500 rounds) of .40 180 ranger-t's for $150....





Pray tell, where might others of us find such a deal?



I'd like to second that. My source recently dried up.
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 10:04:10 AM EST
after shooting hogs(under 100lbs), I like the 180's
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 12:03:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By jualdeaux:

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Neither.

Ranger-t's are a better load, and I bought a case (500 rounds) of .40 180 ranger-t's for $150....





Pray tell, where might others of us find such a deal?



I'd like to second that. My source recently dried up.



It was a one-time deal.

I should have bought more - even though I almost never carry the .40 anymore.


(BTW, that was $150 shipped.....)
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 12:16:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2005 12:21:29 PM EST by chapperjoe]
What about these guys:
www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=847046


Magtech Guardian Gold Ammunition 40 S&W 180 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 20 $7.72



well priced but not on your guru's list.

ETA: I can't find cheap gold-dots.

ETA2: I'm an idiot. I'm comparing boxes of 20 to boxes of 50. d''oh! found gold dots at ammoman for a darned good price. 120 for 500 shipped!
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 12:24:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
What about these guys:
www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=847046


Magtech Guardian Gold Ammunition 40 S&W 180 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 20 $7.72



well priced but not on your guru's list.

ETA: I can't find cheap gold-dots.



In the last few months you've posted about buying enough guns to start your own army.


Cough up the dough for some good ammo.



Link Posted: 5/13/2005 12:27:58 PM EST
I'm on it, I'm on it. April/May was my conversion from carbines to long range gun month. June will be ammo month slash class 3 month.....
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 12:54:40 PM EST
If you don't mind me asking, why are you looking for so much carry ammo? If your concerned with practice vs. defense rounds then invest in a reloading press and roll your own for half the price or perhaps even less.
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 12:58:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
What about these guys:
www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=847046


Magtech Guardian Gold Ammunition 40 S&W 180 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 20 $7.72



well priced but not on your guru's list.

ETA: I can't find cheap gold-dots.

ETA2: I'm an idiot. I'm comparing boxes of 20 to boxes of 50. d''oh! found gold dots at ammoman for a darned good price. 120 for 500 shipped!



Ammoman's gold dots are practice - only.

They're part of a lot that speer QC rejected for an occassional bad primer.

(Look at the pictures on his site...)

Link Posted: 5/13/2005 12:58:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Researcher:
I would stick with the 165 gr bullets. I have carried 165 gr. sxt's and rem golden sabers. The 165 is a good mid weight bullet in the caliber that offers greater velocity than 180gr. You need all the velocity you can get in a handgun. 165 gr is a respectable weight and gives good penetration. You can also have more problems with the 180 grain bullet should you encounter any bullet setback.


A Big +100,000,000
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 1:07:05 PM EST
Just a heads up. My department carries the 180 Ranger SXT's. The past few shootings we've had, solid hits were made on the individuals and the bullets did not do their job. The one individual was shot several times, all CM's and was still able to cut another trooper with a chainsaw. At another shooting the ER doctor (Prior to removing any of the bullets from the individual-while looking at the x ray) wanted to know if we were using FMJ's! She said if the rounds were doing their job this guy should have been dead. She could not believe that the bullets were designed to expand!

We've had several other shootings in the past where the rounds performed less than satisfactorily, ie no expansion, multiple hits to stop the person, and at one of these shootings where multiple hits were put on the person a trooper ended up dying (RIP Joseph Sepp) and the assailant ended up living.

I realize these examples are not scientific in anyway, it's just that we've had a not so good track record with the 180's. Our union is now pushing for a lighter bullet.
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 1:48:29 PM EST
165gr. Speer gold dots thats what I use.
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 2:46:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By otar:
165gr. Speer gold dots thats what I use.



+1
Link Posted: 5/13/2005 3:16:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Henny:
Just a heads up. My department carries the 180 Ranger SXT's. The past few shootings we've had, solid hits were made on the individuals and the bullets did not do their job. The one individual was shot several times, all CM's and was still able to cut another trooper with a chainsaw. At another shooting the ER doctor (Prior to removing any of the bullets from the individual-while looking at the x ray) wanted to know if we were using FMJ's! She said if the rounds were doing their job this guy should have been dead. She could not believe that the bullets were designed to expand!

We've had several other shootings in the past where the rounds performed less than satisfactorily, ie no expansion, multiple hits to stop the person, and at one of these shootings where multiple hits were put on the person a trooper ended up dying (RIP Joseph Sepp) and the assailant ended up living.

I realize these examples are not scientific in anyway, it's just that we've had a not so good track record with the 180's. Our union is now pushing for a lighter bullet.




Whoa!


What exactly is a ranger sxt?


An sxt, or a ranger-t?

There IS a difference.


(And sorry for your loss....)

Link Posted: 5/13/2005 4:51:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2005 4:56:42 PM EST by Henny]

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
[

Whoa!


What exactly is a ranger sxt?


An sxt, or a ranger-t?

There IS a difference.


(And sorry for your loss....)




What I am referring to as the Ranger SXT is Winchester's RA40SXT. Perhaps I'm calling it the wrong thing, but they are 180 gr rounds that come in the gold and blue box that says "Ranger" on it and the bullet weight is listed on the end flap as 180 SXT.



ETA: I just looked at one of the boxes of old ammo I had sitting around. The above is what we use to carry. Now we carry the RA40T load. Sorry for the confusion! I'll look a little closer at the box the next time before I post! I do not believe that Winchester makes the RA40SXT load anymore. It's the one that had the dreaded "black bullet".
Link Posted: 5/14/2005 1:57:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2005 2:00:40 PM EST by Rose]

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I read from Ayoob that sxt's were one of the top choices available.... maybe that was only for 9mm?



Ayoob probably wasn't talking about the curret Supreme SXT cartridge. From what I've gathered, they aren't very good. He was probably talking about the Ranger SXT (a LE load) which has since been superceded by the Ranger T cartridge.

I hear people talk about SXT bullets and wonder exactly what they're talking about. There are a couple different Winchester products that have been associated with the SXT name. Some don't compare to each other, some do.

I'd like to see a bullet design FAQ (Troy??). Something that clearly describes the lineage of the various handgun defensive hollowpoints. Winchester and Federal (especially) seem to have many people confused as to which cartridges and bullets are which.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 2:26:59 PM EST
I like 155 gold dots.
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