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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/5/2005 11:03:32 AM EDT
Okay,

Searched 30 days and didn't find a thread.

I carry a P220 .45 daily. I got it when I was looking to join a PD in AZ. I had to postpone everything to return to Ohio to assist with an ill family member.

Looking to return to AZ and have got a slot to work with a sheriff''s dept.

I love the Sig and have been a .45 fan from way back in the Army. I have carried everything under the sun and had a whole flock of Glocks. I had my first one from before most of the current glock owners even knew about them. I hate the grip angle. Thinking about another USP45, but training would be better if I carried a Glock. I also like the idea of duty holsters ready for a mounted tac light.

So, attributes of the 10mm vs the .45. I carried a G22 for several years because I got the capacity vs diameter bug years ago. Being on the sreet, I am thinking that a few more rounds would do me better than bore size.

Ideas? Pro's or cons?

Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:06:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 11:10:41 AM EDT by wildearp]
Your ear drums will prefer the .45 over a 10mm in a shooting. The blast and muzzle flip of a 10mm makes a second shot or double tap much harder.

Practice ammunition will be much more cost prohibitive, and, good luck finding 10mm brass for reloading.

Take a good look around. If the 10mm was such a good idea, wouldn't more people be carrying one?

What AZ county do you plan to work with? Pima is now issueing the .40 Glock 22. Much better to beat up a company gun. 10mm would probably not be allowed.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:21:08 AM EDT
unless you are set on one of those 2 calibers have you thought about .357sig? the numbers i have seen on it are pretty impressive and there are a wider range of pistols available in that caliber. there are only a couple of models out there in 10mm--the glock 22 and smith & wesson made one for a while but i can't remember the model number offhand. but if you really like sigs the p226 and sig pro both are available in .357sig. and the sig pro in .40 is very nice so i would assume that recoil and such would be similar in the slightly smaller caliber. also the pro is significantly lighter than the p22x series due to the polymer frame.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:28:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 11:30:52 AM EDT by twonami]
Glock G20 if you want a readily available, reliable 10mm and Doubletapammo has some nice stuff

this is probably outdated

Albuquerque N.M.P.D. (G-20, and Delta Elite) *
Aleppo Township Pennsylvania P.D. (S&W 1006)
Anniston, Alabama P.D. (Glocks, and S&W's)
Stevenson, Alabama P.D. (Glock 20)
Baytown P.D. Texas (Glock 20/Glock 29)
Bellingham PD Bellingham Wa. (S&W 1076)
Billings Montana Sheriff's Office (Glock 20)
Billings Montana Police Department (Glock 20)
Brick Township New Jersey (Glock 20)
Buffalo Minnesota P.D. (Glock 20)
Clay County S.O. Florida (Glock 20)
Colorado State Patrol (Glock 20 )
Eu Clair Wisconsin P.D. (S&W 1006)
Falkville Alabama (G-20,29) *
FBI (S&W 1076) *
Immediate Reaction Special Group SWAT Mexico City (Colt Delta Elite)
Kentucky State Police (S&W 1076) *
Kentucky Dept. of Probation and Parole *
Kalispell, Montana P.D. (Glock 20) *
Lander Wyoming (Glock 20)
Loveland Colorodo P.D. (Glock 20)
Maricopa County Sherrifs Office (Phoenix Az.) (Glock 20 & Delta Elite ) *
New Castle P.D (Chappaqua N.Y)(Glock 20 )
Normandy Missouri P.D. (S&W 1006)
Pawnee County, Oklahoma Sheriffs Office (Glock 20)
Pocatello, Idaho P.D. (S&W 1066)
Pueblo P.D. Pueblo Colorado ( Glock, and Colt ) *
Raleigh N.C.P.D. (S&W 1076)
Sonoma County Sheriff's Department (Glock 20, and Delta Elite)
Spokane County Sheriff Washington State (Colt Delta Elite)
St. Bernard P.D. St. Bernard, Ohio *
St. John Indiana P.D. (Glock 20 Primary)(Glock 29 Backup)
U.S Customs Service (S&W & Glocks )
U.S Marshals *
Weimar Texas P.D (Glock 20 and 29)
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:45:12 AM EDT
Glock 20c recoil is light 15 +1 cap. 357 SIG is a fine round and you can swap barrels and shot 40. glock 20 can shoot 10mm ,357 sig 40 auto with a barrel change.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 12:01:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rtech:
Okay,

Searched 30 days and didn't find a thread.

I carry a P220 .45 daily. I got it when I was looking to join a PD in AZ. I had to postpone everything to return to Ohio to assist with an ill family member.

Looking to return to AZ and have got a slot to work with a sheriff''s dept.

I love the Sig and have been a .45 fan from way back in the Army. I have carried everything under the sun and had a whole flock of Glocks. I had my first one from before most of the current glock owners even knew about them. I hate the grip angle. Thinking about another USP45, but training would be better if I carried a Glock. I also like the idea of duty holsters ready for a mounted tac light.

So, attributes of the 10mm vs the .45. I carried a G22 for several years because I got the capacity vs diameter bug years ago. Being on the sreet, I am thinking that a few more rounds would do me better than bore size.

Ideas? Pro's or cons?


hope it isn't Maricopa County. Arpaio is a douchebag
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 12:24:52 PM EDT
All,

I reload and have some 10mm brass, not a lot though. I used to have a G20 about 10 years ago, but it was just a safe queen. I also carried a G21 at times for a CCW gun.

I carried a G22 for a number of years. Not a big .40 fan. As such, not a big fan of the .357 Sig. It's just a 9mm with a bit more powder. Don't really care about shooting other calibers.

Muzzle flip. If your shooting stance is correct, it is not an issue. I have been a competition shooter for a few years. Muzzle flip is not an issue for me. 10mm is getting my interest because I never gave it consideration before now. I'm thinking 2 extra rounds might be nice. Maybe not.

S&W made the 1006 and the 1076 in 10mm. Never appreciated S&W autos. It's that darned mag disconnect!!!

The county is Maricopa and my plan is to do the volunteer armed Posse thing until I can get through the process of maybe doing a reserve position. I have an "in" with the posse and can get a sponser right now. They will give me all my training and I can keep the day job at the gun shop. I also have lots of friends who are active at the MCSO.

I could just use the Sig, but I'm thinking of a complete change with a fresh start.

10mm is authorized with MCSO.

I guess I'm just looking for a reason to get a new gun and wondering if I should just stick with .45.

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 12:28:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 52brandon:
hope it isn't Maricopa County. Arpaio is a douchebag



I know all about "Hollywood" Joe. He is and he'll never change. I won't be working directly with him, I hope.

I'm looking to suck up the training.

I have lots of stories about him. All of them true.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 1:05:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 1:07:29 PM EDT by Face_N_The_Crowd]

Originally Posted By rtech:
All,

I reload

not a big fan of the .357 Sig.

I have been a competition shooter for a few years.

I guess I'm just looking for a reason to get a new gun and wondering if I should just stick with .45.

Thanks



rtech -

I carry a 10mm some of the time - waited a long time to get it too...others (those with experience) told me that there is nothing that a 10mm can do that a .45 ACP can not...... practically speaking - it is true.

A 10mm is hard on your body and on the gun.

I reload - magically I have been able to procure almost 3k pieces of brass - it is very available....

I too am a comp shooter - a 10mm is slower through a COF - no question - run a qualifier you will see too. (using full power ammo)

Anymore I am of the opinion that it comes down to 2 issues - being able to hit your target under stress and round count. Since handguns basically are poor defensive tools and the margin between 9mm, 10mm, 40 S(hort and) W(eak) , is very small thanks to modern HPs - round count becomes a major concern.

A G20 with 16 on board and 2 spare 15 rnders - is the best of all worlds if you are using ammo that is running at or near original specs.

I personally like Double Taps 180 Gold Dots.

good luck with your 10mm
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 1:07:34 PM EDT
For open terrain, as I suspect you will be working in, the 10mm has some advantages…

I had my Delta Gold Cup out the other day along with my .45. At 100 yards the 10mm ruled!

The .45 needed a full front sight as well as several feet of hold-over. The 10mm needed a full front sight but about a foot of hold-under.

With the 10mm meeting or exceeding .357 mag ballistics, it really shines in open terrain.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 1:10:42 PM EDT
how can you go wrong with 10mm?


TXL
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 1:45:50 PM EDT
This is a really hard decision.

Just talked with a friend from MCSO. He carries a G22. He suggested that I stick with a G21 because .45 ammo is more available in the field. He was telling me that if I use .45 and was on a call in a gun battle that I could get .45 easier from other deputies than I could get 10mm. Probably wouldn't happen, but there have been some gun fights with MCSO before. You know what they say about ammo and bubble gum...

I know a few deputies that carry something chambered in .40 S&W. There is nothing wrong with the round if your shot placement is good. I just like the idea of the harder hitting 10mm.

I know I shouldn't have to make hits out to 100 yards, but every .45 I've tried it with has fallen short and the 10mm will hit out at 100 yards. Shooting at 100 yards is on the course of fire during handgun training for the SO.

Performance makes me lean towards the 10. Logisitics says I should stay with .45. Throughout 20 some years, I have always returned to he .45, except when I was packing my Model 29, of course.

Damn the FBI and Colt for the Delta Elite. Why did they do this to me??? WHY????

Face_N_The_Crowd, I appreciate your honest opinion. I've had friends run through IDPA with a 10 before. I agree that recoil is a beast. I ran a string with my Mod 29 one time. They thought I was gonna set the targets on fire. It was brutal when we were on the line. Still a tough call. MCSO may not even have 10mm in the inventory any longer. I don't know.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 2:28:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rtech:
Face_N_The_Crowd, I appreciate your honest opinion. I've had friends run through IDPA with a 10 before. I agree that recoil is a beast. I ran a string with my Mod 29 one time. They thought I was gonna set the targets on fire. It was brutal when we were on the line. Still a tough call. MCSO may not even have 10mm in the inventory any longer. I don't know.



My practice loads 10.2 Blue Dot and 180 plated - dipple steel, I have been asked NOT to shoot the steel anymore with my 10mm......
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 2:57:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
how can you go wrong with 10mm?


TXL



exactly, but you can't go wrong with the 45ACP either . Here is my 10mm for the drool effect, Im such a photo whore

Pre-Dan Wesson CBOB cambered in a 10mm.

Severns Custom Enhanced

Cylinder & Slide Inc, Tactical II hammer
STI S-7 Sear
Briley disconnector
Wilson blue hammer strut pin
EB hammer strut
EB SS grip saftey
EB tactical SS thumb safety
EB mag release
EB Slide stop
EGW o/s firing pin stop
Davidson horned lizard G-10 grips
Trigger job set@ 3.75
Reliability tune
Frame undercut




Andrew Custom crossdraw holster, weapon fits like a glove, no break in needed, hugs really tight and feels great. Quaility holster DO make a difference
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:00:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 4:01:14 PM EDT by 52brandon]
I would go with a .40 if most of the other MCSO employees carry .40s. As for distances of 100 yards or more, I believe you guys get ARs in your trunks, that should solve that problem
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:17:57 PM EDT
rule of thumb for me:

.45acp for people, 10mm for animals....

both will get the job done

either way, a G20 or a G21 cant be beat!

Link Posted: 10/5/2005 7:34:55 PM EDT
I love .45, but I carry a Glock 20. To be honest, I think that the Glock 20 handles the 10mm well enough that I don't consider the recoil an issue. It's really not all that bad as long as you have hands large enough to wrap around the grip, and the performance is unquestionable. I shoot Glocks well, and the large frame versions have the most natural point of aim for me of any gun I've handled.

My only issue with the 10 is the price of ammo, which isn't that much more than .45. I reload, but I had a case head separation with a piece of twice fired brass that spooked me off of reloading for the Glock in 10mm. I will reload the 10 again, but I'm going to look for a slower powder (was using IMR700-x) and need to find new brass. I've also considered picking up a new barrel with a fully supported chamber for practice, and the using the glock barrel for social work.

If your hands fit the gun and you can poney up for the ammo, I'd buy the 10. If not you can't go wrong with a .45.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:31:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By V-Rod:

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
how can you go wrong with 10mm?


TXL



exactly, but you can't go wrong with the 45ACP either . Here is my 10mm for the drool effect, Im such a photo whore

Pre-Dan Wesson CBOB cambered in a 10mm.

Severns Custom Enhanced

Cylinder & Slide Inc, Tactical II hammer
STI S-7 Sear
Briley disconnector
Wilson blue hammer strut pin
EB hammer strut
EB SS grip saftey
EB tactical SS thumb safety
EB mag release
EB Slide stop
EGW o/s firing pin stop
Davidson horned lizard G-10 grips
Trigger job set@ 3.75
Reliability tune
Frame undercut

img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/V-Rod/db4d54bb.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/V-Rod/8abefc9e.jpg

Andrew Custom crossdraw holster, weapon fits like a glove, no break in needed, hugs really tight and feels great. Quaility holster DO make a difference
img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/V-Rod/ba22207f.jpg



Damn you. Damn you to hell for those pics.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:46:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:


Damn you. Damn you to hell for those pics.



Good God, I hope not. should I edited them out
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 10:12:58 AM EDT
You guys are not making this any easier. Did I open a can of worms or what?

V-Rod, Nice D Wesson. Kind of makes me wish I was still packing a 1911. I will again when the budget allows me.

wolffie, How bad was the ka-boom? Personally, I've never had a glock fail on me and I've owned one of everything they made through 1996, plus I bought a G36 when the came out. I don't subscribe to the theory that all glocks blow up. Who makes a barrel that's fully supported?

One thing that is nice is that the G20/21 have the same frame. If I wanted to change calibers, I could get another slide, barrel and mag and I should be okay. So I could go that route. However, the agency requires that all firearms be factory with no aftermarket mods except sights. I wonder how they'd feel about replacement original slides. I will pose the question to them, but it shouldn't matter if it is factory.

Thanks for all the replies. I guess it really won't matter too much if I can change calibers whenever I wanted. Thoughts to ponder....
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:31:30 PM EDT
Ammo sharing?

I don't know about the Glocks but my Colt Delta Gold Cup will feed & function with 40 S&Ws like it was made for it.

Sure like that .45 too…

Glad I don't have to make this decision!
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:26:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2005 5:26:54 PM EDT by rtech]
Okay.

Just got policy from the SO and looks like I need to carry whatever I qual with for one year before I switch calibers. Then another year and so on.

So, I think I will opt for the .45 for duty. I can then switch out parts if I want to compete or just get bored with the 45. Just can't carry it for duty in 10mm.

The good news is that if Glock made a plus 2 floor plate for the G21, I can add those to my mags, as long as they are factory. I don't know if Glock made those for the 21 or not. More research. At least then I could have 15+1 of .45 on tap. I'm confident that I will never need to fire a shot. Just looking down the barrel of that fotie-fife will make them crap their pants. So, according to the talk around General Discussion, the only time I would actually fire off a round would be an ND or two.

Sure wish I could stick an M3 light on the Sig and I could shove 3 or 4 more rounds into it, and I would just carry that. I know about the Dawson rail, but I've heard bad things about the rail wearing on the alloy Sig frame.

Oh well. Thanks for all the input. It's been a tough 24 hours or so. But I think this makes the best sense all the way around. Maybe I'm just jonesing for a 10mm. It's an itch I can't quite scratch yet.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 11:52:26 AM EDT
Keep the SIG and get a 10mm. I hope you can have a rifle too. If not I would definantly go 10mm since you might have to deal with an animal as well. Just my two cents.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 5:28:48 PM EDT
I got rid off my two tone sig because of excessive muzzel flip!!! The 10 mil in a light weight pistol(of any gun maker will get you the same results) in my heavy all metal Thompson(38Oz)there is no muzzel flip!!!

If you want to carry a 10 mil try out one in 1911A1 confiquration!

Only nine rounds but the pistol will not beat you or it's self to death!!!

Buy what you want,carry what you need,but shoot it often as you can!!!

If heavy is not an option then then you might want to caliber down a bit!!

The 10 mil in 200 grain full power loads is a handfull!


Bob
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