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Link Posted: 1/21/2021 7:05:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By HOGHUNTERS:
At what time do you incorporate the timer stressor in instruction?
Most folks would be intimidated by having the timing monkey on their shoulders, and it's not about that at all. Progression through experience shooting will give way to faster shot placement over time....timers can be used, but that will vary from individual to individual.  
I'll relay your sentiment that I'm a moron to the people I have helped over the years......
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Incorporate the timer before you even go to the range for live fire.

If people are “intimidated” by a timer how are they expected to function under any kind of stress?

It’s like saying, “man... this car sure is fast!”
“Really? How fast?”

“Don’t know, I had the gauges removed.”
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 7:08:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By HOGHUNTERS:
Do you entertain the notion of "maximum efficiency " ?
I'm guessing no. Run your drills and quantify your thousandths of a second you shaved off your time.
I am truly happy that you are that good....or working to be better, there does come a point of diminishing return......can we at least agree on that one thing?
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I work in the thousands of a second range, but it’s easy to start knocking seconds off when someone is just trying to refine basic draw/presentation motions, reloads, movement drills, etc.

You can have a draw that feels fast... and it’s actually not because you’re busy with inefficient movement. You can also have one which feels like it’s in slow motion because it’s clean and efficient.

If you’re not training with a timer you simply don’t know.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 7:21:50 PM EST
Then there will be no point in your training for a peak in performance level?
I think I can remember being that obsessed with taking it to the next level....that was quite a while ago.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 7:42:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By HOGHUNTERS:
Then there will be no point in your training for a peak in performance level?
I think I can remember being that obsessed with taking it to the next level....that was quite a while ago.
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Sure, you can peak but it’s more likely you will merely plateau.

If you’re not running a timer, how do you even know?
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 7:51:29 PM EST
I guess my age, physical condition from the injuries, and differences in training attitudes from my younger piers make it difficult to stay in that mindset.
You never gave an answer on real world experience,  
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:07:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HOGHUNTERS:
I guess my age, physical condition from the injuries, and differences in training attitudes from my younger piers make it difficult to stay in that mindset.
You never gave an answer on real world experience,  
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Yup... Been on the two way range with time in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:28:56 PM EST
Thank you for your service Brother.
Semper Fi or Hooah!
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:39:50 PM EST
I dont know why its so hard for some people to accept that choosing some guns will hurt their times.

My scores are much higher when I shoot with double stack 9mms. I much prefer shooting heavy loads in my .357. Its my edc and more fun to shoot.

Same with using my shockwave for 3 gun.

I also usually shoot from concealment.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:54:27 PM EST
Perhaps some aren't concerned with times because they believe any encounter will end with one shot from a 10mm.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:30:20 PM EST
One will do it, I advocate two....
And a follow up T zone.
The bad guy won't know the difference in the double tap time but he will know the difference when that 200gr HST round does it's superior ballistic schooling on soft tissue.
.45 230gr HST GTG
9mm 147gr HST GTG
I wouldn't have any second thought about carrying any of those in my EDC lineup.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:43:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Perhaps some aren't concerned with times because they believe any encounter will end with one shot from a 10mm.
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Are we making the assumption then that everyone who uses a double stack 9 believes they'll mag dump 15 rounds into anyone who crosses them?

Because thats about the same amount of stretch.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 12:12:37 AM EST
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Originally Posted By HOGHUNTERS:
but he will know the difference when that 200gr HST round does it's superior ballistic schooling on soft tissue.

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Please elaborate. In the testing I've seen, the 10mm has a bit more penetration and similar expansion to the service calibers.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 12:13:09 AM EST
Is 10mm a Viable Self-Defense Caliber?
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 5:29:50 AM EST
I am assuming a little, but it is interesting to me that folks in this conversation are divided between heavy caliber (and recoil) like 10mm and .357 (and possibly hot loaded 45 ACP).....and uber manageable recoil like a 9 mm service pistol. I think those same folks are also divided between more urban vs more rural scenarios.

I know that my carry choice goes from 45 ACP (most of the time, always if I'm in town) to 10 mm (winter, in the sticks where my home is) based on where I am.

It is highly unlikely to need a longer range handgun in town. My rifle is in the truck if I need that. On the other hand, in the sticks, I could absolutely find myself away from my truck, and needing to shoot something out to 50 yards.

Noting others in this conversation....I have never been shot at. BUT...I have used my carry gun many times on critters, mostly coyotes or a car struck deer.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 7:40:03 AM EST
This thread reminds of why I quit shooting IPSC.

Tony
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 8:15:27 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TonyRumore:
This thread reminds of why I quit shooting IPSC.

Tony
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Why?

Link Posted: 1/22/2021 8:40:34 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TradWoodsman:
This is a carry over from the Winter Carry Ammo thread that got out of hand.

Yes, I do. I shoot it in IDPA enough to know that I have no problems with it as a carry gun/load. Full sized, steel framed 1911.

The recoil is no where near what a full house .357 load is in a S&W model 19.

Internet experts shouted me down on the other thread. They could not believe it possible. I was ordered by the www.commandos to prove it  and quantify "competent".

I'm a little flabbergasted that folks think the recoil from a 10mm is all that much. It aint. Some folks read about guns on the internet. Some folks actually shoot them.
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Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 8:56:44 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Please elaborate. In the testing I've seen, the 10mm has a bit more penetration and similar expansion to the service calibers.
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More penetration than the service calibers.
Working GSWs  on the streets for decades I rarely saw over penetration on torso hits, never saw them on larger bodied individuals.  America is unfortunately getting larger, this complicates the ballistics of some bullet designs. To further this, in winter time, if you add the extra layers I would feel better knowing I have enough to get to what counts underneath. If I lived up north, I probably would carry my 10mm a lot more. Down here, heavy clothing not so much as I live in the (grease) belt of the south.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 9:05:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2021 9:06:57 AM EST by Nick_Adams]
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Perhaps some aren't concerned with times because they believe any encounter will end with one shot from a 10mm.
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Which the stats and DF encounters involving a 10mm recited in Marshall & Sanow's first OSS book pretty much proved, right?
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 9:16:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2021 9:18:25 AM EST by Nick_Adams]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Superluckycat:
You can compete with anything want.  That does not look fun at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMjDzMZY2Yw
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Interesting...

The guy below brought his M1 Garand to a 3-Gun Match instead of a tricked-out-like-John-Wick 5.56 AR.

Some folks just like to run certain guns under Match conditions to see how'll they'll do.

Of course, M1's have been run hard for decades on various '2-way shooting ranges' that come with their own special conditions.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K_jSL4SsTD4
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 10:13:49 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Perhaps some aren't concerned with times because they believe any encounter will end with no shots one shot from a 10mm.
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FIFY

most encounters that end with a gun being used involve just the gun coming into play. Most, not all. Most of the remaining encounters that do result in shots end after the first guy makes a good shot. Again, most, not all.

But realistically I'm comfortable carrying something that I can make a good/fast hit with. For me that's 1911s in 45 or red dot 9mm pistols. So that's what I carry. If I end up in a running gunning shit show and end up dying because I didn't have a 4th reload or whatever than fuck it, it's my time. But I'm more likely to need to run off the random bad dude with a knife who wants my change at a gas station than (hopefully) get in a sicario bridge scene shootout with the cartel.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 10:23:55 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TonyRumore:
This thread reminds of why I quit shooting IPSC.

Tony
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Because you don’t live in Europe so you started shooting USPSA?
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 11:31:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2021 11:34:18 AM EST by Bradd_D]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Nick_Adams:


Which the stats and DF encounters involving a 10mm recited in Marshall & Sanow's first OSS book pretty much proved, right?
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Just to clarify, I'm not saying that I hold that belief. I was actually being sarcastic, although it appears that there may be some that really believe it.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 11:37:34 AM EST
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Originally Posted By HOGHUNTERS:


More penetration than the service calibers.
Working GSWs  on the streets for decades I rarely saw over penetration on torso hits, never saw them on larger bodied individuals.  America is unfortunately getting larger, this complicates the ballistics of some bullet designs. To further this, in winter time, if you add the extra layers I would feel better knowing I have enough to get to what counts underneath. If I lived up north, I probably would carry my 10mm a lot more. Down here, heavy clothing not so much as I live in the (grease) belt of the south.
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My opinion is more in line with the Lucky Gunner video I posted.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 11:38:49 AM EST
I shot a 3 gun match with my 10mm once with some pretty warm loads just for giggles and grins.  There was plenty of giggling and grinning as the RO and other shooters and spectators were ducking and dodging the ejected brass. The RO was cackling like a hyena after the first stage.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 11:43:54 PM EST
I run a long slide in my local Bowling Pin circuit and do quite well with it.



I run a Delta in USPSA in Limited 10.  There are a lot of us middle aged and older guys running 1911s in Limited 10 in our matches, although I am the only one who regularly runs a 10mm.  That makes me a bit unusual, but L10 is filled with weirdos anyways (said with love) so I blend in just fine.  As has been said, I never have any difficulty finding my brass, and even if I miss some of it, folks bring it right over to me.  I run a relatively mild load pushing a 180gr JHP at about 1100 fps.  Recoil is no different than those shooting .40 major.  

I am past the age where I worry about being competitive with anyone else other than my peer group, and I do well enough to be happy where I end up, though the competitive side of me always wants to end higher in the stack.  I do it because I enjoy both the shooting aspect and the camaraderie, I enjoy 10mm, and it's very rare that I don't have a good time.







Link Posted: 1/23/2021 7:15:25 AM EST
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Originally Posted By JohnnyEgo:
I run a long slide in my local Bowling Pin circuit and do quite well with it.
https://www.johnnyego.com/firearms/1911s/page5/nh10custom03.jpg


I run a Delta in USPSA in Limited 10.  There are a lot of us middle aged and older guys running 1911s in Limited 10 in our matches, although I am the only one who regularly runs a 10mm.  That makes me a bit unusual, but L10 is filled with weirdos anyways (said with love) so I blend in just fine.  As has been said, I never have any difficulty finding my brass, and even if I miss some of it, folks bring it right over to me.  I run a relatively mild load pushing a 180gr JHP at about 1100 fps.  Recoil is no different than those shooting .40 major.  

I am past the age where I worry about being competitive with anyone else other than my peer group, and I do well enough to be happy where I end up, though the competitive side of me always wants to end higher in the stack.  I do it because I enjoy both the shooting aspect and the camaraderie, I enjoy 10mm, and it's very rare that I don't have a good time.


https://www.johnnyego.com/firearms/belt/dabelt05.JPG




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Nice.  That's still a pretty hot major load.
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 9:17:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/23/2021 9:20:52 AM EST by HOGHUNTERS]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnnyEgo:
I run a long slide in my local Bowling Pin circuit and do quite well with it.
https://www.johnnyego.com/firearms/1911s/page5/nh10custom03.jpg


I run a Delta in USPSA in Limited 10.  There are a lot of us middle aged and older guys running 1911s in Limited 10 in our matches, although I am the only one who regularly runs a 10mm.  That makes me a bit unusual, but L10 is filled with weirdos anyways (said with love) so I blend in just fine.  As has been said, I never have any difficulty finding my brass, and even if I miss some of it, folks bring it right over to me.  I run a relatively mild load pushing a 180gr JHP at about 1100 fps.  Recoil is no different than those shooting .40 major.  

I am past the age where I worry about being competitive with anyone else other than my peer group, and I do well enough to be happy where I end up, though the competitive side of me always wants to end higher in the stack.  I do it because I enjoy both the shooting aspect and the camaraderie, I enjoy 10mm, and it's very rare that I don't have a good time.






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    Thank you for sharing,  sweet combo of 10mm
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