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Posted: 9/23/2008 5:31:13 AM EDT
With the pictures of FN's prototype FNP45 MIL now on the web and the late news that we may never see it, there's been a lot of people asking how to do it, where to find barrels, etc etc.

I'm creating this thread so we've got a single place to track the manufacturers/parts/services needed.

The differences between the FNP45 Mil and the FNP45 USG are pretty obvious. The MIL prototype has a threaded barrel, taller sights, and a built in mount for a Doctor type optic. Images below.

FNP45 MILITARY


FNP45 USG


BARREL:

Currently, Fire Dragon has a threaded barrel in the testing stages. This has been confirmed. We do not, however, have a release date for the barrel. I sent an updated information request earlier this week and have not heard back, nor have I seen anything posted on the site regarding the barrel. I'm confident when FD is ready to let loose the hounds, they'll let me know.

SLIDE:

I have made contact with a machinist I've had dealings with in the past. He's stated the project is straightforeward and can be done. Page 5 for details.
SIGHTS:

TrueGlo is, eventually, going to do a run of tall sights for the FNP 45. They estimated this to happen in the May timeframe.

In Closing:

If I made any mistakes in the thread above, feel free to correct me. This is all my unofficial attempt to create something I wish FN would simply market. Any input or ideas are more than welcome.

Cheers,
Wicked
Link Posted: 9/23/2008 9:15:38 AM EDT
There was a guy who mounted a "doctor style optic" on top of his FiveSeven. I'm not for sure if he machined the slide or not.

I'll look him up and send him a link to this thread.

Link Posted: 9/23/2008 3:04:14 PM EDT
I am the guy that mounted the Docter on top of his FDE Five-seveN.  Because of the plastic slide cover I was not able to have the slide milled but had a mount made to go on top.

I am also the guy who found someone who mills slides to mount the Docter Optics.  He will mill any slide that has the room for a Docter Optic for $200.  He usually mills "over" the existing rear sight dovetail but in this case we want the Docter to fit in front.  The only problem I see that was not addressed by FN is a clear path needed to adjust the reticle screws.  They sit in front where the rear sight will be.  One solution is to drill two small holes completely through the rear sight.  The other way is to zero your Docter and "then" mount the rear sight.  The company is Grams Engineering in CA (949) 548-3745 or look them up on the internet @ www.gramsengineering.com

Trijicon makes "tall" night sights for suppressed SIGS and I am sure they can do the same for the FN.

I talked to FN last week asking when the FDE 45's will be out as shown on their web site and he said the last quarter of this year.  That really means sometime next year.

Hope this helps,
MadDog
Link Posted: 9/23/2008 8:34:05 PM EDT
Hey MadDog! Thanks for adding that info!!!

I just got my response from KKM. It's brief, but here it is.


We see the 50 barrel mark as the break even line. The profit from 50  
barrels covers program time , gun sample & tooling.

Kevin


I've just sent another email asking for specifics, pricing, and etc. Trijicon is up next.
Link Posted: 9/23/2008 8:42:42 PM EDT

Quoted:
The only problem I see that was not addressed by FN is a clear path needed to adjust the reticle screws.  They sit in front where the rear sight will be.  One solution is to drill two small holes completely through the rear sight.  The other way is to zero your Docter and "then" mount the rear sight.  


The only problem I can foresee with drilling the rear sight is that when using the pistol without the optic, you might get daylight through the drilled holes, which would complicate your sight picture. Just a thought.
Link Posted: 9/23/2008 9:16:41 PM EDT
In.
Link Posted: 9/23/2008 10:13:04 PM EDT
Woah, I was just getting together some plans to build one of these when i saw the thread and i think i can help you with the slide. Bowie Tactical Concepts would def do it, hes been doing work like that on glocks for a while now, does stellar work.
http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/sitebuilder/images/glock_34_h-520x388.jpg
Link Posted: 9/23/2008 10:50:41 PM EDT

Quoted:
Woah, I was just getting together some plans to build one of these when i saw the thread and i think i can help you with the slide. Bowie Tactical Concepts would def do it, hes been doing work like that on glocks for a while now, does stellar work.


I sent him an email to see what his prices would be like. Email to Trijicon has also been sent. One thing to note is that we won't know how tall the sights need to be until we know where the Doctor sits.

Cheers,
Benson
Link Posted: 9/24/2008 3:22:52 AM EDT
The other question is, do they make an aftermarket cover for the milled section( I guess they dont but can they?) in case one were to remove the dr optics
Link Posted: 9/24/2008 5:05:35 AM EDT

Quoted:
The other question is, do they make an aftermarket cover for the milled section( I guess they dont but can they?) in case one were to remove the dr optics


That'll be something we have to ask a machinist. I can't imagine it's a very complex part.
Link Posted: 9/24/2008 9:42:25 AM EDT
Another response from KKM Precision.


The barrels will be button rifled , US manufactured 416SS , heat  
treated to 42RC , dropin not gunsmith fit type barrels , chamber &  
feed ramp hand polished. The price for barrel and threading is $220 for 50 and $192 after that. There is no min order at that time. We would  
need 6-8 months to complete the 50 barrel order.


So there is a price and a timeline. Not as fast as we'd like, but it's an answer. If you want to know more about KKM barrels, keep reading. This is from their site.


Over the years KKM has built a solid reputation in the shooting industry for producing high quality match grade target pistol barrels.  This reputation has been built on our ability to produce one of the most accurate aftermarket barrels available today and our secret is our unique Button Rifling process.  Button rifling is a process in which a Titanium Nitride coated carbide button is pulled under pressure displacing metal and producing a rifled bore.  Our process produces a uniform mirror like finish down the entire length of the barrel. Unlike Broach, ECM, or Hammer forging, Button rifling produces a more accurate bore diameter, surface finish, surface hardness as well as a more uniform rate of twist.  A single Button can produce thousands of barrels before wearing undersized.  This allows us to maintain a high level of quality control.  All of our Buttons are produced in house using highly specialized equipment.  Being able to experiment with different bore configurations and twist rates allows us to maintain an edge in competitive shooting sports.

All KKM barrels are made using U.S. manufactured 416 Stainless steel bar stock which is then heat treated and vacuum tempered to 42 to 45 RC.  All Barrels are CNC machined to obtain superior dimensional tolerances.  Using our unique Button Rifling process, all KKM barrels offer superior accuracy over stock barrels.

KKM Precision offers most major brands of suppressor threading.  All threads are CNC machined to obtain exact tolerances to manufacturer specs.  Common threads include:

1/2 x 24 9/16 x 24 5/8 x 32
1/2 x 28 9/16 x 28 5/8 x 36
1/2 x 32 9/16 x 32 .575 x 40
1/2 x 40 9/16 x 36 37/64 x 28


So, we'd need to decide on a single threading. I don't really foresee this being a problem.

Now, here's the hard part. We need 50 guys who want barrels to even get the ball rolling.

Link Posted: 9/24/2008 2:48:39 PM EDT
I'm going to link this thread over at FNFORUM.NET.

There are a lot of FNP owners over there.

Link Posted: 9/24/2008 8:28:18 PM EDT
Sounds like a good idea. Once I've got a solid grasp on the details I'll start dealing with the group buy process if this is what everyone wants.
Link Posted: 9/25/2008 10:08:00 AM EDT
Count me in for a barrel and night sights.
Link Posted: 9/25/2008 5:29:35 PM EDT
I am in.
Link Posted: 9/25/2008 5:30:42 PM EDT
I dont suppose anyone has any info on a machinst that will or does make an extended slide release that is like the glock extended release???
Link Posted: 9/25/2008 9:03:06 PM EDT

Quoted:
I dont suppose anyone has any info on a machinst that will or does make an extended slide release that is like the glock extended release???


I'm not a fan of Glock. Setting that aside, the primary focus of this thread is barrels/sights/rail.

I'm adding a list of parties wanting to purchase a barrel or sights to the original post. I'm going to ask people to really think about this, as to avoid future headaches with people bailing out.

This is NOT a buy list. It is NOT final. This is just so I can keep track.

Cheers,
-Wicked
Link Posted: 9/27/2008 12:59:33 AM EDT
hell, I'm in too.



my dumb ass had my dealer calling FN the day I saw the pics of the MIL version.  Of course, no one knew what he was talking about. but NOW......
Link Posted: 9/27/2008 3:21:41 PM EDT
I know the feeling, and trust me, I'd much rather have FN manufacture the pistol than have to chase modifications. I'm hoping they'll come to their senses, but just in case they don't, here we are.
Link Posted: 9/28/2008 5:54:04 PM EDT
I'd be interested in the barrel. the other things not so much.
Link Posted: 9/30/2008 12:45:09 AM EDT
For those of you have have a rep at FN you talk to, I've got a question for them. I'd like to know if the USG will be using the same barrel as the standard FNP45. If someone could find out, that'd be great.

Thanks,
Wicked
Link Posted: 10/3/2008 12:52:06 AM EDT
im in for a threadded barrel only,.

i have a FNP-9 at home already and a FNP-45 waiting for me at my dealer that i will get once i am back Stateside,. i have been saying for the longest that these pistols NEED a threadded barrel,..

so any chance of making a barrel in 9mm as well?
Link Posted: 10/3/2008 12:51:38 PM EDT
As I've said before, the primary focus of this thread is for the .45.  However, once the .45 is designed, I'm willing to bet a 9mm and .40 will follow.

Still no word from Trijicon
Link Posted: 10/3/2008 1:08:14 PM EDT
Is it possible to call Trijicon?  I have an overriding philosophy that people fail at email communications; therefore its best to nail someone with an actual live conversation a la telephone.  Granted, finding someone who actually knows what an FNP-45 is may be difficult.
Link Posted: 10/3/2008 10:28:03 PM EDT
I'd pony up for a threaded bbl
Link Posted: 10/5/2008 12:56:48 PM EDT

Quoted:
Is it possible to call Trijicon?  I have an overriding philosophy that people fail at email communications; therefore its best to nail someone with an actual live conversation a la telephone.  Granted, finding someone who actually knows what an FNP-45 is may be difficult.


It's possible, but not from where I am. Give me a few days.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 8:58:46 AM EDT

Quoted:
With the pictures of FN's prototype FNP45 MIL now on the web and the late news that we may never see it, there's been a lot of people asking how to do it, where to find barrels, etc etc.



I guess I have missed that in trying to stay up on this subject....FN has no intentions of building these??  What a mistake as I was hoping to save my coin and buy one next year as that was when I was assuming they would come out.

Come on FN - one of these and SCAR heavy 16" please.
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 9:26:46 AM EDT

Quoted:
I guess I have missed that in trying to stay up on this subject....FN has no intentions of building these??  What a mistake as I was hoping to save my coin and buy one next year as that was when I was assuming they would come out.

Come on FN - one of these and SCAR heavy 16" please.

They aren't saying it will never happen.  FN has a lot on their plate right now.  Specifically the civvie SCAR and the striker-fired FNP's among other things.  I'd rather they get the SCAR released into the market before they dive into a project like the FNP-45 Mil.
Link Posted: 12/8/2008 2:11:52 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess I have missed that in trying to stay up on this subject....FN has no intentions of building these??  What a mistake as I was hoping to save my coin and buy one next year as that was when I was assuming they would come out.

Come on FN - one of these and SCAR heavy 16" please.

They aren't saying it will never happen.  FN has a lot on their plate right now.  Specifically the civvie SCAR and the striker-fired FNP's among other things.  I'd rather they get the SCAR released into the market before they dive into a project like the FNP-45 Mil.


Ooh don't get me wrong I would take a SCAR Heavy first but I really want a FN45 Mil...
Link Posted: 1/5/2009 4:50:18 AM EDT
count me in on a barrel and sights.
thx
Link Posted: 1/9/2009 11:31:27 PM EDT
Very interested in this project! I just saw the handgun for the first time. Off topic I see a few SCAR 16S's on Gunbroker....going for about 5 to 6 grand at the time of this post

SCAR 16S
Link Posted: 1/10/2009 8:26:05 AM EDT
Not sure if I want to go this far on my FNP-45, but I would like to keep an eye on this subject just to see how it goes. To me? Seems to be a very big "on line" project to be able to complete.

Quoted:
Very interested in this project! I just saw the handgun for the first time. Off topic I see a few SCAR 16S's on Gunbroker....going for about 5 to 6 grand at the time of this post

SCAR 16S


1st guns out... If I seen correctly, the guns that are out right now are so called "Special", they will be numbered 1 of ? with pretty paper work to say what they are and so on.

I think the street price when things relax a bit over a "new gun" on the market, would be more in the $2,500.00 range.

What I am keeping an eye on is the FNAR .308 Heavy, now that is going to be a sweet weapon.
Link Posted: 1/11/2009 1:52:31 PM EDT
Quoted:
Another response from KKM Precision.

The barrels will be button rifled , US manufactured 416SS , heat  
treated to 42RC , dropin not gunsmith fit type barrels , chamber &  
feed ramp hand polished. The price for barrel and threading is $220 for 50 and $192 after that. There is no min order at that time. We would  
need 6-8 months to complete the 50 barrel order.


So there is a price and a timeline. Not as fast as we'd like, but it's an answer. If you want to know more about KKM barrels, keep reading. This is from their site.

Over the years KKM has built a solid reputation in the shooting industry for producing high quality match grade target pistol barrels.  This reputation has been built on our ability to produce one of the most accurate aftermarket barrels available today and our secret is our unique Button Rifling process.  Button rifling is a process in which a Titanium Nitride coated carbide button is pulled under pressure displacing metal and producing a rifled bore.  Our process produces a uniform mirror like finish down the entire length of the barrel. Unlike Broach, ECM, or Hammer forging, Button rifling produces a more accurate bore diameter, surface finish, surface hardness as well as a more uniform rate of twist.  A single Button can produce thousands of barrels before wearing undersized.  This allows us to maintain a high level of quality control.  All of our Buttons are produced in house using highly specialized equipment.  Being able to experiment with different bore configurations and twist rates allows us to maintain an edge in competitive shooting sports.

All KKM barrels are made using U.S. manufactured 416 Stainless steel bar stock which is then heat treated and vacuum tempered to 42 to 45 RC.  All Barrels are CNC machined to obtain superior dimensional tolerances.  Using our unique Button Rifling process, all KKM barrels offer superior accuracy over stock barrels.

KKM Precision offers most major brands of suppressor threading.  All threads are CNC machined to obtain exact tolerances to manufacturer specs.  Common threads include:

1/2 x 24 9/16 x 24 5/8 x 32
1/2 x 28 9/16 x 28 5/8 x 36
1/2 x 32 9/16 x 32 .575 x 40
1/2 x 40 9/16 x 36 37/64 x 28


So, we'd need to decide on a single threading. I don't really foresee this being a problem.

Now, here's the hard part. We need 50 guys who want barrels to even get the ball rolling.



How much are we talking for a barrel price?

Link Posted: 1/12/2009 11:02:20 AM EDT


Link Posted: 1/12/2009 12:40:39 PM EDT
very niiiiiice
Link Posted: 1/17/2009 7:54:50 PM EDT
Yes - I want a set of the accessories too!

William
Link Posted: 1/18/2009 4:00:17 PM EDT
I am in to get one built.  IM is not the best way to get me involved as it goes to an old college account, get my attention when we are ready to go!
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 8:26:10 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Another response from KKM Precision.

The barrels will be button rifled , US manufactured 416SS , heat  
treated to 42RC , dropin not gunsmith fit type barrels , chamber &  
feed ramp hand polished. The price for barrel and threading is $220 for 50 and $192 after that. There is no min order at that time. We would  
need 6-8 months to complete the 50 barrel order.


So there is a price and a timeline. Not as fast as we'd like, but it's an answer. If you want to know more about KKM barrels, keep reading. This is from their site.

Over the years KKM has built a solid reputation in the shooting industry for producing high quality match grade target pistol barrels.  This reputation has been built on our ability to produce one of the most accurate aftermarket barrels available today and our secret is our unique Button Rifling process.  Button rifling is a process in which a Titanium Nitride coated carbide button is pulled under pressure displacing metal and producing a rifled bore.  Our process produces a uniform mirror like finish down the entire length of the barrel. Unlike Broach, ECM, or Hammer forging, Button rifling produces a more accurate bore diameter, surface finish, surface hardness as well as a more uniform rate of twist.  A single Button can produce thousands of barrels before wearing undersized.  This allows us to maintain a high level of quality control.  All of our Buttons are produced in house using highly specialized equipment.  Being able to experiment with different bore configurations and twist rates allows us to maintain an edge in competitive shooting sports.

All KKM barrels are made using U.S. manufactured 416 Stainless steel bar stock which is then heat treated and vacuum tempered to 42 to 45 RC.  All Barrels are CNC machined to obtain superior dimensional tolerances.  Using our unique Button Rifling process, all KKM barrels offer superior accuracy over stock barrels.

KKM Precision offers most major brands of suppressor threading.  All threads are CNC machined to obtain exact tolerances to manufacturer specs.  Common threads include:

1/2 x 24 9/16 x 24 5/8 x 32
1/2 x 28 9/16 x 28 5/8 x 36
1/2 x 32 9/16 x 32 .575 x 40
1/2 x 40 9/16 x 36 37/64 x 28


So, we'd need to decide on a single threading. I don't really foresee this being a problem.

Now, here's the hard part. We need 50 guys who want barrels to even get the ball rolling.



How much are we talking for a barrel price?



The price for first 50 barrels would be $220. After that, It'd cost $192.

Basically, that extra $40 goes to development, fit testing, and setup costs. The 50 barrel benchmark is where they break even on the setup, which is why the cost steps down.

To everyone who's showed interest.

I apologize for the significant lack of updates here. I've currently deployed, and things have been busy lately. I'm going to try to get the ball rolling here again, but could use some help as it's almost impossible to make calls to the states from where I am. Anyone interested in helping out can IM or Email me so we can pick things up from where we left off.

We've got sources for the barrels and slide milling. Sights is the next hurdle.
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 8:44:15 PM EDT
How did I miss this?

I'm in for a barrel.
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 9:05:22 PM EDT
I sent an email for yall about the sights, I know the guy that does the machining for Trijicon, I'll find out if he made them and how many were made or if it was a little prototype run.  I know he's been doing some FN and Trijicon prototype stuff, just never put it together till I read this.
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 9:57:08 PM EDT
Quoted:
I sent an email for yall about the sights, I know the guy that does the machining for Trijicon, I'll find out if he made them and how many were made or if it was a little prototype run.  I know he's been doing some FN and Trijicon prototype stuff, just never put it together till I read this.


That's a great lead! Can't wait to hear back. I'll be going through this thread and updating the list in the OP later today to see where we are numbers wise.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 11:23:13 PM EDT
Quoted:
We've got sources for the barrels and slide milling. Sights is the next hurdle.


Very nice.  Do you have an estimated cost for the slide milling?  I'd like to know about this.  Will this be for a Docter optic only, or could it be milled for a Burris FastFire?
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 3:12:29 AM EDT
The cost was on page one, estimated at $200. I'd have to ask about the Burris, as I'm not familiar with how it mounts. Pics?
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 3:38:00 PM EDT
Count me in
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 5:36:54 PM EDT
Quoted:
The cost was on page one, estimated at $200. I'd have to ask about the Burris, as I'm not familiar with how it mounts. Pics?


http://www.burrisoptics.com/fastfire.html

The best I can come up with, but that aside I wasn't too thrilled about 400 dollars for a red dot optic for my handgun, but 200 dollars for the Burris FastFire was much more reasonable.  I have not purchased one to date.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 7:30:04 PM EDT
Not to get sidetracked, but for $140, I'd put on a RDP-II from TNVC..

I have yet to update this thread. I'll do it soon. Promise.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 12:40:28 AM EDT
Quoted:
Not to get sidetracked, but for $140, I'd put on a RDP-II from TNVC..

I have yet to update this thread. I'll do it soon. Promise.


*Shrugs*

I assume the TNVC one is made in China right?  I'm also not too fond of the auto-adjusting dot output.  I'd much rather have the FastFire's on/off switch.

Hmm, I wonder how expensive it would be to flat-out machine a 1913 rail into the slide?  That way anyone could choose whatever optic they wanted.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 4:25:32 AM EDT
Quoted:

Hmm, I wonder how expensive it would be to flat-out machine a 1913 rail into the slide?  That way anyone could choose whatever optic they wanted.



 The iron sights would be the height of an AR BUIS then.  That would make the iron sights easier to get - it would also make them look ridiculous. (IMHO)

 ~ William
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 10:35:50 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not to get sidetracked, but for $140, I'd put on a RDP-II from TNVC..

I have yet to update this thread. I'll do it soon. Promise.


I'd much rather have the FastFire's on/off switch.



I like the FastFire better also.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 1:45:31 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:

Hmm, I wonder how expensive it would be to flat-out machine a 1913 rail into the slide?  That way anyone could choose whatever optic they wanted.



 The iron sights would be the height of an AR BUIS then.  That would make the iron sights easier to get - it would also make them look ridiculous. (IMHO)

 ~ William


Not was I was thinking - I meant where the Docter Optic sits on the FNP-45 Mil model there is a 1913 rail milled into the receiver there.  Keep the rear sight notch where it is, just like the FNP-45 Mil model.

I should say this because I am not familiar with the interface of the Docter optic on the FNP-45 Mil.  That being said, nearly all of these manufacturers of micro red dot sights have a 1913 picatinny rail adapter.  By milling the red dot optic mount on the FNP-45s to be 1913 rails, this would make it easier for individuals to choose their RDS.

How hard is it to mill stainless steel?
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 7:43:51 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Hmm, I wonder how expensive it would be to flat-out machine a 1913 rail into the slide?  That way anyone could choose whatever optic they wanted.



 The iron sights would be the height of an AR BUIS then.  That would make the iron sights easier to get - it would also make them look ridiculous. (IMHO)

 ~ William


Not was I was thinking - I meant where the Docter Optic sits on the FNP-45 Mil model there is a 1913 rail milled into the receiver there.  Keep the rear sight notch where it is, just like the FNP-45 Mil model.

I should say this because I am not familiar with the interface of the Docter optic on the FNP-45 Mil.  That being said, nearly all of these manufacturers of micro red dot sights have a 1913 picatinny rail adapter.  By milling the red dot optic mount on the FNP-45s to be 1913 rails, this would make it easier for individuals to choose their RDS.

How hard is it to mill stainless steel?


That's another question for a machinist. However, I can pretty much tell you that a 1913 rail would be absolutely fugly. It requires too much height and would require a completely different slide. Furthermore, a Doctor/1913 adapter would only increase to the height of the sight, making it impossible to co witness, let alone holster.

I forgot that the RDP-II was self-adapting, and I agree that it wouldn't be appropriate for this application.
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