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Link Posted: 2/21/2014 7:45:00 PM EDT
The magazines are standard Wilson Comabat 7 rounders and the shok buffs are also from Wilson. As for the book thats another issue.  In about 2008 they stopped using the gun books for the MEUSOC
Link Posted: 2/21/2014 8:46:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ugotbit:


I also have been unable to locate a copy of TM 00526A-10/1, or the Weapon Record Book.

Any other MEUSOC clone junkies find them?
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Originally Posted By ugotbit:
Originally Posted By Parabellum226:
Originally Posted By lear60pilot:
I'm going to guess t that Ben or Shoe won't know anything about those grips other than they didn't leave PWS like that.  What happens at the user end lever is out of their control.  Although, they might be able to tell some stories of pistols that come back with weird parts on them.


That would be fantastic!

I was wondering if anybody knows where to find a pdf or hard copy of the Weapon Record Book that apparently was issued with these pistols along with the 7 magazines and shok buffs. The Technical manual for the MEU(SOC) references it, but I haven't been able to find one. Any help would be much appreciated!

Tom


I also have been unable to locate a copy of TM 00526A-10/1, or the Weapon Record Book.

Any other MEUSOC clone junkies find them?


Any idea what the difference between TM 00526A-10/1 and this is?
Link Posted: 2/21/2014 8:58:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2014 9:02:01 PM EDT by ugotbit]
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Originally Posted By Parabellum226:


Any idea what the difference between TM 00526A-10/1 and this is?
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Originally Posted By Parabellum226:
Originally Posted By ugotbit:
Originally Posted By Parabellum226:
Originally Posted By lear60pilot:
I'm going to guess t that Ben or Shoe won't know anything about those grips other than they didn't leave PWS like that.  What happens at the user end lever is out of their control.  Although, they might be able to tell some stories of pistols that come back with weird parts on them.


That would be fantastic!

I was wondering if anybody knows where to find a pdf or hard copy of the Weapon Record Book that apparently was issued with these pistols along with the 7 magazines and shok buffs. The Technical manual for the MEU(SOC) references it, but I haven't been able to find one. Any help would be much appreciated!

Tom


I also have been unable to locate a copy of TM 00526A-10/1, or the Weapon Record Book.

Any other MEUSOC clone junkies find them?


Any idea what the difference between TM 00526A-10/1 and this is?



I have that one also.

I believe the 10/1 was the manual given directly to the end user on how to operate/maintain the gun. It's referenced in the TM 00526A-24&P/2, page 1-1 as the  "Operator's Manual"


Shoe mentioned they phased out the books around 2008, and nothing in my research has turned one up.

Personally, I would like to see the in house build/check sheet for one also. No joy on that either.
Link Posted: 2/22/2014 12:33:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2014 12:34:21 AM EDT by mlin]
No more USMC markings on civilian version M45A1. as reported by Larry Vickers:
https://www.facebook.com/LarryVickers/posts/10153841556610416
Link Posted: 2/22/2014 6:20:46 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Parabellum226:


Any idea what the difference between TM 00526A-10/1 and this is?
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Originally Posted By Parabellum226:
Originally Posted By ugotbit:
Originally Posted By Parabellum226:
Originally Posted By lear60pilot:
I'm going to guess t that Ben or Shoe won't know anything about those grips other than they didn't leave PWS like that.  What happens at the user end lever is out of their control.  Although, they might be able to tell some stories of pistols that come back with weird parts on them.


That would be fantastic!

I was wondering if anybody knows where to find a pdf or hard copy of the Weapon Record Book that apparently was issued with these pistols along with the 7 magazines and shok buffs. The Technical manual for the MEU(SOC) references it, but I haven't been able to find one. Any help would be much appreciated!

Tom


I also have been unable to locate a copy of TM 00526A-10/1, or the Weapon Record Book.

Any other MEUSOC clone junkies find them?


Any idea what the difference between TM 00526A-10/1 and this is?


The 24 on the end designates it for usage by 2nd-4th echelon maintenance (organization through depot) vice individual, P is that it contains a parts list.

The last M45 TM for individuals was the TM 09795B-OR from June 10.   For the M45A1 it is the TM 09795C-OR/1 of Jun 2013


Link Posted: 2/22/2014 12:05:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By accurange:
not mine but on ebay there is another clark beavertail safety listed ebay# 380844792391
View Quote


That caught my eye too.  Took me a second to realize what it was.  Just in case someone was thinking about pulling the trigger on this one, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but better safe than sorry.  It's not a Clark or a Wilson.  It's an even rare Pachmayr Custom Steel Beavertail.  It most likely came off an actual Pachmayr built gun.  They were sold as rough castings with ample meat to be reshaped by a smith.  The good thing about this particular one is that it looks like a Clark/Wilson.  The bad thing is, even after reshaping, the trained eye will spot it as a fake if looking at the radius cut.  Though it looks to be a compound Clark/Wilson cut, it's not.  It's an optical illusion.  It's a .250" constant radius cut.  I'll post in a second on the viability of this one as a work around, along with some pictures of an unshaped Pachmayr and some other possible candidates for replicas.
Link Posted: 2/22/2014 1:54:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DGI:
That beavertail looks pretty beat.  Im sure a 'Smith can make use of it though.

Hobbs: Yes, Rob at Alchemy is supplying the pics.  He is top notch.  His facebook page has logs of most of the pistols he works on (at least the neat ones).  

Great looking 610R!!! i was looking for a 310R for the longest time.  Stopped looking after I bought one for my Beretta and realized it was for a 92F not FS.  Wasnt too crazy about the size of the light after playing with one.  What kind of Kimber is that? Does it use a Dawson Rail?  I was always a fan of the way they did their weak side ambi safeties on some of their models (that one included).  Originally wanted a TLE RL but bought a TRP instead and have been on a Springfield kick ever since.  Might have to try to get my hands on one to see how they compare.
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The Kimber in that photo with my developing clone is a Kimber ICQB. You are correct in assuming it uses a Dawson rail.

I was lucky enough to get one from a DET-1 member who is in my wife's family.  I was also lucky enough to meet their head armorer, a guy named Kitashima.  Hopefully I spelled the Sergeant's name correctly.  I'm sure one of you PWS guys can correct me if I'm wrong.  Great guy, Kitashima.  When I got my ICQB it was a new in the box gun, meaning it had a Kimber grip safety, Kimber rubber grips, no light, no lanyard, no Dawson rail, no Surefire IMPL.  Since I got to see the ICQBs all in their individual racks at Pendleton post deployment, I got to see what they looked like after actual use.  They had Ed Brown memory groove beavertails on them, with the frame tangs left unblended.  I detected a hint of embarrassment from MSGT Kitashima, who was obviously a professional, over the lack of fitting of their grip safeties.  He noted that he did not have the facilities he had when he was at PWS, and did not have the time to send the guns out for refinishing.  Obviously Marines don't need such cosmetic niceties, and these operators who use gloves for the most part would likely care less about a baby smooth fit between beavertail and frame.  I throw that last detail out there to illustrate what I've encountered with all the DET-1 guys I met.  They're top flight professionals who are also very humble.

I set my gun up the same way I saw them at the DET's armory, with the exception of the rack number.  They had the individual operator's rack number, which coincided with the gun's serial number, penned in on the Gunner grips.  I did the same, but thought it silly as my gun is serial 239, and there were only about 103 guys in the DET.  

Since most of us USMC 1911 fans focus on the correct aspects of building MEU(SOC) clones, I haven't really put out a lot of details about the ICQBs.  I'm going to throw out a few things in case anyone is looking to build an ICQB clone, and offer up my time to answer any questions about the gun in case someone wants to build one.  Feel free to IM or email me with any questions about the details of the gun, as I can always refer to mine or post pictures of any specific markings.  I think it would be pretty cool for someone to build an authentic clone, down to the markings, even though it wouldn't have the correct DET prefix serial number.  Also, I do know of someone local to me that has a couple extra DET-1 pistols.  He's not a Marine, and I don't know that he has any real sentimental attachment to the guns.  He knows they are worth money though.  So, if someone just has to have one and wants to pay mega bucks, I can refer you.  I get nothing out of it, as I'm not even friends with the guy.

So, here are some things that set the actual DET-1 guns apart for the discriminating clone builder:

-Unique frame, Series 1 style with no Swartz safety, DET1-XXX serial number, with "U.S. MILITARY PROPERTY USMC" on the right side dust cover in font that measures .10" high per my calipers
-Mainspring housing is steel, machine checkered at 20 lines per inch with the last left and right side rows left uncut, lanyard loop installed longer than USGI, no relief cut for lanyard clip under the loop
-Lanyard is Gemtech TRL in khaki tan
-Frame comes with Kimber beavertail from factory, but DET-1 armorer installed Ed Brown memory groove grip safety prior to deployment, with frame tangs left unblended
-Grips are Simonich Gunners, not VZ or Strider, pin cut and beveled at the bottom, no ambi cut, in black, and painted by the unit with mil-spec coyote spray paint
-Slide stop is later style Kimber with undercut shelf
-Ejector is standard Kimber MIM semi-extended ejector
-Trigger is Kimber 3 hole

-Slide has double serrations, standard Kimber rear sight cut, but with Novak marked tritium sight, white outlines on the tritium tubes, front sight is unmarked and devoid of date markings, also white outline on the tritium tube
-Left side of slide has Kimber scroll, right side is blank
-Slide is also Series 1 style, no provision for Swartz safety
-Extractor, is machined barstock, not cast, not MIM, Series 70 style (contrary to popular belief, all Kimbers have barstock extractors)
-Slide's disconnector rail/lug has hand scribed serial three digit number suffix (on my slide the orientation is left to right from back to front)
-Barrel is marked on hood with machine cut lettering cal 45 NDT, left to right from back to front, in font that measures .190" by my calipers
-Barrel hood is marked with small stamped P above the cal 45 NDT marking, and font measures approximately .175", located between the 45 and the NDT
-Barrel is stainless and has loaded chamber indicator cut
-Recoil spring plug is solid, plain faced, Commander length
-Recoil spring guide is GI length stainless with beveled back

-Rail is Dawson Precision (all I can say is good luck on this one)
-Light is Surefire IMPL (again, good luck, this one was exceedingly difficult to find and very expensive, and I got it through Dawson since Surefire had a wait at the time)

-Gun is finished in Kim Pro
-Trigger pull on my gun is a consistent 4lbs., 14 ounces, with noticeable creep

Pics (yes, I've shot this gun):























Link Posted: 2/22/2014 2:43:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By hobbs5624:

I'm going to throw out a few things in case anyone is looking to build an ICQB clone...

View Quote



Couldn't have come at a better time, as I'm sure you saw my picture on the last page.

I'm talking with a smith about this project right now. I've all but given up on the IMPL and Dawson rail, as you mentioned, but I'd like to turn mine into a functional replica. The base gun is a standard Custom II, so this will not be an exact, part-for-part reproduction. I will get as close as I can, but this one won't have the DET-1 and USMC markings.

Thank you for offering your help and knowledge for people like me. I'm certain I'll ask you a question or two while on this path.


BTW, for those interested, there is an ICQB on Gunbroker right now for $10,000, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=395084312

And here is an photo page from Rogers Precision - http://www.rogersprecision.com/id15.html
Link Posted: 2/22/2014 3:36:13 PM EDT
Sorry for the multiple postings, though I'm doing it to separate sub topics.  I want to discuss beavertail work arounds.  Also, I publicly stated on this thread that my last Bar-Sto barrel left something to be desired.  I waited about 15 weeks which was in the time frame stated on their site, only to get a barrel with an obviously damaged crown.  The packaging was damaged, as in dropped, at Bar-Sto prior to being placed in a mailing envelope in that was in perfect condition.  I let them know, and they offered to exchange it.  I didn't want to wait longer so I recut the crown myself.  Alas, I ended up putting that barrel in a friend's gun who desperately needed more than I.  I ordered one last week, and prepared for a wait.  It arrived while I was gone on vacation a week later, and in perfect condition.  Nice job Bar-Sto!

Back to the beavertail work-arounds.  The original beavertails on the older MEU(SOC) pistols are spec'ed out as Clarks.  Having installed my share of both Wilson and Clark back in the day, I can say with confidence it's hard to tell the two apart.  They both had the same external shape as well as the same radius cut for the tangs.  Wilsons seemed to have more consistent and better quality, and definitely a better finish.  Why did the Corps choose the Clark over the Wilson for a part that was relatively identical?  Looking back at my 1994 Brownells catalog, the Wilsons were $25.46 wholesale/FFL price, while the Clark was $14.96.  No brainer there, as it was the cheapest beavertail by far that Brownells offered back then.  I often wonder if that was the sole purpose for choosing the Clark.  

For what it's worth, I don't know if there is a definitive way to tell the difference between a Wilson or Clark, but here are some observations based off my memory from 15 to 20 years ago.  If you come across one with a Series 70 trigger bow block, it's likely a Wilson.  I never came across a Clark that wasn't cut to fit a Series 70 gun, but who knows.  I didn't start smithing until 1987.  I remember Wilson offering both, but by 1994, the only thing offered in my Brownells catalog, was Series 80 for both the Clark and the Wilson.  The biggest difference I've come across is a very slight difference in external contour.  The Wilson, as viewed from the top, has a very parallel looking surface where the radius cut is, while the Clark looks slanted back when viewed from the top.

If one is shooting for a real authentic look, including the radius cut on the frame tangs, I would recommend either the King's 206C or MS Safari Arms beavertail.  I doubt one will find them doing a search, but they come up on GunBroker and eBay frequently enough that you can find them if you're looking.  I rarely see them listed by name, so you just have to know what they look like and do a search for things like beaver tail, beavertail, and grip safety.  These beavertails, which look identical except for a small dimple on the inside of the radius cut, have enough material to be shaped into a very authentic looking Clark/Wilson clone.  They also have a near identical radius cut.  I remember several prominent smiths in Az who used the same jig for the Wilson/Clarks for the King's/MS Safari Arms.  The only difference is that there is a slight corner in the belly of the cut, while the Clark/Wilson has a more sloping cut.  They are very close to being interchangeable.  The only drawback to this grip safety is that it has a slightly lower top surface than the Clark/Wilson.

If one doesn't mind the radius cut being perfect, then you have some other options, including some of the meatier modern .250" radius beavertails.  I would recommend using a Smith and Alexander or Les Baer .250" radius cut beavertail, though the end result will be a grip safety that does not down slope nearly as much as the Clark/Wilson.  Also, as I previously mentioned, you can use the old style Packmayr Custom Steel Beavertail.  They come up on eBay from time to time.  It has a lot of material for getting the perfect external contours.  this one will be a winner for external shape, though the radius will be incorrect. Check out the following pictures.

These are comparison photos of the various grip safeties.  In the first photo, from left to right, we have a Pachmayr Custom Steel Beavertail, a King's 206C in the white, an MS Safari Arms in the white, a Wilson Combat Model 66 in stainless, and a Clark in stainless:



Clark, Wilson, Safari, King's, and Pachmayr:



Same order, different angle:



Opposite order from above, another angle:



Same as above, yet another angle:




Link Posted: 2/22/2014 3:40:13 PM EDT
Pleaforwar, nice links.  Yes, I noticed your gun, and I had you in mind while posting.  Interesting the difference where the P proofmark is on the pistol on Chuck Rogers' site as opposed to mine.  Keep us updated on your build.
Link Posted: 2/22/2014 3:52:15 PM EDT
My final post for the day, sort of a PSA for you clone builders.  I realize that Greider makes the identical trigger, but for those of you as anal retentive as I, there are a couple triggers on GunBroker that are actual Videkis.  Here they are, for the picky person who wants the packaging to go with their build:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=395811287

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=395811501
Link Posted: 2/23/2014 2:00:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2014 2:18:44 PM EDT by DGI]
Hobbs, your posts are an asset to this thread and the internet in general.  Thank you for sharing.  Amazing pictures and info!!!


For anyone looking for a Dawson Rail.  A company called Grizzly Custom Guns sells replicas of this rail.  I bought one from them when I wanted to add a rail to my TRP a while back but have since sold it.  Im not sure what the status of their production is, but the owner of the shop is very friendly and knowledgeable and im sure would be willing to chat with anyone interested. Grizzly Custom Guns

Edit: Glad I found my Videcki for $10 not long ago :WOOT:
Link Posted: 2/23/2014 4:50:42 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DGI:
Hobbs, your posts are an asset to this thread and the internet in general.  Thank you for sharing.  Amazing pictures and info!!!


For anyone looking for a Dawson Rail.  A company called Grizzly Custom Guns sells replicas of this rail.  I bought one from them when I wanted to add a rail to my TRP a while back but have since sold it.  Im not sure what the status of their production is, but the owner of the shop is very friendly and knowledgeable and im sure would be willing to chat with anyone interested. Grizzly Custom Guns

Edit: Glad I found my Videcki for $10 not long ago :WOOT:
View Quote


Nice job DGI, and thanks for the nice compliment!  I didn't realize that Lew Bonitz kept up the rail production after he left Az.  That's pretty awesome.  I had a buddy from the local Sheriff's department asking about a replacement rail for his duty gun, as his Dawson rail came off and got lost.  Now that I think about it, I bet it was a Grizzly/Yost-Bonitz rail, considering his gun was built by Steve Bailey.  I'll refer him to Lew.

Pleaforwar, I think you now have a nice rail to add to your gun.  Who knows, maybe you can get the Surefire IMPL when one comes up.  A guy advertised one on here in the Equipment Exchange a couple years back, with no replies.  Maybe that guy still has his.  He was asking $600, which isn't far off from what the cost when they were available.

Almost done with my clone, as far as smithing goes.  I wanted to post pictures of barrel fitting, but I sort of lost track once I got to fitting the top lugs.  Something happened that's never happened in my experience fitting barrels.  The top lugs did not need cutting.  As a matter of fact, the barrel locked up with a little more depth than I like, but it was still acceptable.  I had to check my invoice just to make sure I got an actual "Match Target" barrel from them.  Top lugs didn't need fitting, just final dressing.

Here are some more pictures of my project creeping along.  Just need to bevel my magwell which I'll probably do today.  After that will be a test fire at the range.  Hopefully my old eyes will do it justice, as I know the barrel is fit pretty tight.  It's not as tight as I like to fit it, nor is the slide to frame fit, as I've read numerous times that the PWS guys didn't make them bank vault tight, but that's the way it's supposed to be on a working gun that sees exposure to the environments.  Range report next weekend.

Stamped the hood right away:





Inked the sides of the hood for fitting.  I've used a mill before, but I actually prefer to do it the longer, harder way, as few slides are perfectly machined.  The inking method is time consuming, but tends to give a better read of where parts are rubbing:






Sides fit, now onto the rear of the hood.  Again, I've milled this part in the past, but I prefer to go slow and ink it.  I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks, not to mention I find it relaxing to spend an hour or tow fitting my hoods:




Finished, locks up very nice with that perfect sound that the feet make on the slide stop pin at the very last moment:








Link Posted: 2/23/2014 11:51:31 PM EDT
Any more realistic and you'll have Uncle Sam chasing you down for stealing his property!

Not mine, but not a bad starting point http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=395884166
Link Posted: 2/24/2014 12:01:54 AM EDT
Funny, I was just about to post that.  Nice starting point for a MEU(SOC) clone, with a perfect "Variant 1" style slide, a nice Wilson beavertail, and possibly an MGW hammer.  Hell, if you don't have to have a USGI frame, you're pretty close to done.
Link Posted: 2/24/2014 9:19:28 AM EDT
Couple weeks back I almost threw a lot of money at an eBay bid, but realized I was just being greedy.  Anyone win the two Clark beavertails there?  Someone got two Clarks for under $70, and one of them has some interesting marks:




Link Posted: 2/24/2014 7:39:30 PM EDT
Surefire W-117

http://www.10-8performance.com/surefire-w117-military-light-with-dawson-adapter-rare/

Just got an update from a member from a different forum that my pistol has had the serial number stamped on the necessary parts and is steps away from being refinished :-) very exciting!

That GB auction is damn tempting... Do I need a second Mil Spec? Hmmmm
Link Posted: 2/24/2014 8:24:42 PM EDT
Not mine; no affiliation with the seller.  If someone is in serious need of a Kings 201A and willing to buy a whole pistol to harvest one......

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=392298635
Link Posted: 2/24/2014 9:14:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By usnguns:
Not mine; no affiliation with the seller.  If someone is in serious need of a Kings 201A and willing to buy a whole pistol to harvest one......

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=392298635
View Quote


You couldn't pay me to remove a Kings from an Unertl. Ask me how I can be sure

Link Posted: 2/24/2014 9:17:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pleaforwar:


You couldn't pay me to remove a Kings from an Unertl. Ask me how I can be sure

http://www.sgcblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/whatgun.jpg
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Originally Posted By Pleaforwar:
Originally Posted By usnguns:
Not mine; no affiliation with the seller.  If someone is in serious need of a Kings 201A and willing to buy a whole pistol to harvest one......

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=392298635


You couldn't pay me to remove a Kings from an Unertl. Ask me how I can be sure

http://www.sgcblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/whatgun.jpg

Wasn't implying it would be smart.  Stranger things have happened.  Guys have bought entire USGI 1911A1s to harvest a frame.  Ask me how I know  ;)
Link Posted: 2/24/2014 9:23:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By usnguns:

Wasn't implying it would be smart.  Stranger things have happened.  Guys have bought entire USGI 1911A1s to harvest a frame.  Ask me how I know  ;)
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Originally Posted By usnguns:
Originally Posted By Pleaforwar:
Originally Posted By usnguns:
Not mine; no affiliation with the seller.  If someone is in serious need of a Kings 201A and willing to buy a whole pistol to harvest one......

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=392298635


You couldn't pay me to remove a Kings from an Unertl. Ask me how I can be sure

http://www.sgcblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/whatgun.jpg

Wasn't implying it would be smart.  Stranger things have happened.  Guys have bought entire USGI 1911A1s to harvest a frame.  Ask me how I know  ;)


Ha! I've definitely seen people do that, and honestly, I don't have much of an issue with it. USGI's are a dime a dozen compared to Unertl's.

It will be interesting to see how much that one goes for. I was kinda hoping nobody else would have noticed the auction.
Link Posted: 2/25/2014 2:13:52 AM EDT
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Rare light indeed.  You need this Pleaforwar.
Link Posted: 2/25/2014 2:30:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2014 10:12:29 AM EDT by hobbs5624]
I finished the magwell beveling last night.  I took it to work today to get a little practice before shift started.  First mag full went to the only Marine on hand, a former 8541:




Funny comments from the 8541.  He had seen this thread, but is not a member here.  He didn't realize I had posted about this gun here, and just happened to find this thread doing an internet search right before we came to work.  He seemed a little surprised to see so much interest in the gun.  Also, when looking at mine, he said it was nothing like the MUE(SOC) guns they shot in training in the Corps.  HIs STA platoon got to go through some sort of short training evolution with Force 1911s, and he said those guns were beat to shit, like the guns pictured by SimplyDynamic.  Just thought I would throw that out there.  Next range report will be with one of my co-workers who was a Force guy.

Anyway, the rest of us shot it:





The gun ran 100%, and it was very accurate.  Unfortunately, I didn't get to really wring it out for accuracy.  Our front lights on the indoor range were dim on the targets, the targets were black and white, and with black on black sights the sight picture was a nice gray blur.  I probably should have taken pictures of the groups, but I didn't think to photograph the targets until the last mag full.  At this point I rushed through the mag as we had to hit the street.  Last two rounds I called as flyers, and I knew they broke high.  Looks like vertical stringing, but it really is just the two flyers.  This is 15 yards standing, 8 rounds, and the worst group of the day with the two aforementioned flyers that went high.  Forehead is round 7, eye is round 8.  I'll post up some accuracy testing when I get some free time to shoot at proper targets from a bench.  Here's the embarrassing group:



I beveled the mag well by hand.  I pretty much don't like to do this, especially with a rough WWII frame, but what few photos I have of early MEU(SOC) pistols show mag wells that appear to be hand beveled.  





Beautiful manually machined PWS rear sight (thanks again Ben and Jeff).



Heavy coat of oil before storage, Parkerizing this weekend I hope/


Link Posted: 2/25/2014 11:14:34 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By hobbs5624:



Rare light indeed.  You need this Pleaforwar.
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Originally Posted By hobbs5624:



Rare light indeed.  You need this Pleaforwar.



Had it in the cart and someone snatched it up.

Shit happens. Good job on who ever got it.
Link Posted: 2/25/2014 1:34:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pleaforwar:



Had it in the cart and someone snatched it up.

Shit happens. Good job on who ever got it.
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Originally Posted By Pleaforwar:
Originally Posted By hobbs5624:



Rare light indeed.  You need this Pleaforwar.



Had it in the cart and someone snatched it up.

Shit happens. Good job on who ever got it.


Ouch! Dont you hate it when that happens?? I've learned not to hesitate on stuff that I "need" haha

Hobbs, the pics of your build have caused internal turmoil as I played with the idea of buying a USGI pistol to harvest the frame.  A part of me now wishes I had done just that lol
Link Posted: 2/25/2014 2:09:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DGI:


Ouch! Dont you hate it when that happens?? I've learned not to hesitate on stuff that I "need" haha

Hobbs, the pics of your build have caused internal turmoil as I played with the idea of buying a USGI pistol to harvest the frame.  A part of me now wishes I had done just that lol
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Originally Posted By DGI:
Originally Posted By Pleaforwar:
Originally Posted By hobbs5624:



Rare light indeed.  You need this Pleaforwar.



Had it in the cart and someone snatched it up.

Shit happens. Good job on who ever got it.


Ouch! Dont you hate it when that happens?? I've learned not to hesitate on stuff that I "need" haha

Hobbs, the pics of your build have caused internal turmoil as I played with the idea of buying a USGI pistol to harvest the frame.  A part of me now wishes I had done just that lol


The thing that chaps my ass the most is that I saw your post yesterday, but it didn't register. I always refer to the light as the IMPL, and forgot the model was the W-117. Damnit.
Link Posted: 2/25/2014 6:31:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2014 6:31:33 PM EDT by Parabellum226]
Pleaforwar, I might be able to fix your problem. It pains me, but if I buy it I will find myself involved in yet another build that I can't quite afford. Pm me, and I'll see if I can find the gentleman's contact info in the meantime.
Link Posted: 2/27/2014 4:30:22 PM EDT
not mine ,but in the ee someone has a springfield armory slide with the correct millett front and PWS rear sights installed listed forsale. that slide is going to make someone a great meusoc build!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 2/28/2014 3:18:32 PM EDT
That slide went quick... Damn. Littlebarney is now obligated to post his build progress on here... Hobbs has set the standard....;) my build is on its way back... Glamour shots next week... :)
Link Posted: 2/28/2014 6:24:30 PM EDT
This will make a lot of guys building their Meusoc clones very happy.  Thanks to a nice lead, I came into a stash of 15 brand new Authentic Millet .225 height, serrated, stake on Front Sights.  These are the real deal and the ones that were originally used on the Meusocs.  If you need one PM or email me.


Link Posted: 2/28/2014 8:38:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By carmodyh:
That slide went quick... Damn. Littlebarney is now obligated to post his build progress on here... Hobbs has set the standard....;) my build is on its way back... Glamour shots next week... :)
View Quote



Haha, not really.  You guys will all have your builds done before I get around to refinishing mine.  I have to get cooking on other 1911 projects.  Congrats Littlebarney!  That's a seriously nice slide.
Link Posted: 2/28/2014 9:01:47 PM EDT
A note on parts for early ("Variant 1" through "Variant 3") pistols. That tech manual floating around out there that is dated 1994 has a listing for just about everything.  When I started building mine, I looked up all those parts numbers.  I noted that almost everything had either a CAGE Code/NSN number or a Brownells parts number.  There are search engines for the CAGEC and NSNs.  I've found it best to just google those numbers, as some of those search engines will bring back generic results.  If anyone is curious about a specific part, I can tell you from experience every one of those CAGEC and NSNs can be found.  Most small parts are USGI.

As for Brownells parts numbers, just ask me.  I have a 1994 Brownells catalog on hand.  Some of those parts, such as the Videki trigger, can easily be substituted by the use of a Greider trigger.  Greider after all bought out the Videki tooling.  Some other things of note that I found while building mine:

-The MGW hammer specified in the manual is impossible to find new in the wrapper.  However, I can tell you from memory building with those hammers back in the 90s, they are like a 90s era Colt Commander hammer with a countersunk hole, but they do not have relieved sides, and they have a Series 70 captive half cock notch.  Very few hammers were made with that combination of features.  Since you can't work around the Series 70 captive half cock notch, if you're aim is the very finest details, it's easy enough to get an early used Colt hammer and simply countersink the hole, or you could get a Swenson hammer from Midway and do the same.  The Swenson is of low quality, so I would go with a Colt.

-I wondered if the Bar-Sto barrel of today was the same as those used in the 90s.  Though I had installed them back then I remembered the font being smaller.  A call to Bar-Sto confirmed they are identical to the ones being made in California back in the 90s, including the hood markings.

-The sear, which I never see anyone talk about, is an MGW.  I spoke to MGW last year.  They have no old stock, have no plans to produce any of these old parts, and have nobody around that remembers the fine details regarding appearance or material.  I can tell you that an MGW sear, again from having installed them back then, looks like a plain blued steal sear with a square face, no extra material for take up, and has the double crescent cut on the rear curve.  In other words, it looks like most standard sears.

-The Pachmayr grips back then had no provision for an ambi safety cutout.  Not that it matters, but I'm mentioning it for those who are into the small details.

-This is more for the do-it-yourselfers or for your smiths.  For those who haven't fit a King's safety before, they suck in one aspect.  The detent hole is always too low on the face of the safety.  Sure, you can move it up, but on a King's the area above is so thin, you end up with an unsightly circle with the detent exposed above the lever.  I mention it for two reasons.  I left mine where it's at, because changing it was damned ugly.  That means you have a safety that can have two stopping points in the down position.  It's not a functional issue, but an issue of annoyance.  You flick down your safety, and if you push down further it will move down further.  Fitting it correctly for a nice feel will result in that unsightly exposed detent issue.  You choose your evil on that one.

Those are just some random thoughts on parts.  Good luck folks on your builds.
Link Posted: 3/1/2014 4:09:22 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hobbs5624:
A note on parts for early ("Variant 1" through "Variant 3") pistols. That tech manual floating around out there that is dated 1994 has a listing for just about everything.  When I started building mine, I looked up all those parts numbers.  I noted that almost everything had either a CAGE Code/NSN number or a Brownells parts number.  There are search engines for the CAGEC and NSNs.  I've found it best to just google those numbers, as some of those search engines will bring back generic results.  If anyone is curious about a specific part, I can tell you from experience every one of those CAGEC and NSNs can be found.  Most small parts are USGI.

As for Brownells parts numbers, just ask me.  I have a 1994 Brownells catalog on hand.  Some of those parts, such as the Videki trigger, can easily be substituted by the use of a Greider trigger.  Greider after all bought out the Videki tooling.  Some other things of note that I found while building mine:

-The MGW hammer specified in the manual is impossible to find new in the wrapper.  However, I can tell you from memory building with those hammers back in the 90s, they are like a 90s era Colt Commander hammer with a countersunk hole, but they do not have relieved sides, and they have a Series 70 captive half cock notch.  Very few hammers were made with that combination of features.  Since you can't work around the Series 70 captive half cock notch, if you're aim is the very finest details, it's easy enough to get an early used Colt hammer and simply countersink the hole, or you could get a Swenson hammer from Midway and do the same.  The Swenson is of low quality, so I would go with a Colt.

-I wondered if the Bar-Sto barrel of today was the same as those used in the 90s.  Though I had installed them back then I remembered the font being smaller.  A call to Bar-Sto confirmed they are identical to the ones being made in California back in the 90s, including the hood markings.

-The sear, which I never see anyone talk about, is an MGW.  I spoke to MGW last year.  They have no old stock, have no plans to produce any of these old parts, and have nobody around that remembers the fine details regarding appearance or material.  I can tell you that an MGW sear, again from having installed them back then, looks like a plain blued steal sear with a square face, no extra material for take up, and has the double crescent cut on the rear curve.  In other words, it looks like most standard sears.

-The Pachmayr grips back then had no provision for an ambi safety cutout.  Not that it matters, but I'm mentioning it for those who are into the small details.

-This is more for the do-it-yourselfers or for your smiths.  For those who haven't fit a King's safety before, they suck in one aspect.  The detent hole is always too low on the face of the safety.  Sure, you can move it up, but on a King's the area above is so thin, you end up with an unsightly circle with the detent exposed above the lever.  I mention it for two reasons.  I left mine where it's at, because changing it was damned ugly.  That means you have a safety that can have two stopping points in the down position.  It's not a functional issue, but an issue of annoyance.  You flick down your safety, and if you push down further it will move down further.  Fitting it correctly for a nice feel will result in that unsightly exposed detent issue.  You choose your evil on that one.

Those are just some random thoughts on parts.  Good luck folks on your builds.
View Quote


One thing I found odd was that it gave Barsto codes for the springs.  What's the deal with that?

Regarding the MGW parts, I recall reading somewhere (on another forum, I believe, it may have been a post by Dave Berryhill himself) that Berryhill's equivalent parts he had been selling were made by the same people who made them for MGW to the same specs.
Link Posted: 3/1/2014 9:51:40 AM EDT
Honestly that's one I didn't ask about.  The inquiry about the barrel hood with Bar-Sto was painful and time consuming enough, I didn't care to research the recoil spring.  I did ask if they made recoil springs and they acted like I had two heads.  So, the answer was no.  I'm guessing they simply purchased the spring from Bar-Sto back in the day, and that they were likely Wolff springs.  Who knows though.  My only friend with PWS ties that was old enough to answer that one dies last year.  

As far as the Berryhill hammer, I got ahold of one three years ago to put in someone else's gun.  Though I'm not arguing what you said about Mr. Berryhill using the same manufacturer, it seemed like a nicer machined hammer than the MGW.  It had relieved sides if memory serves, and edges were nicely beveled.  I've looked over a bunch of MEU(SOC) photos and early pistols all seem to show hammer rub on the sides, indicative of non relieved sides.  I wouldn't hesitate to use the Berryhill hammer if I found one on the used market, nor the Harrison Commander hammer.  They're likely better made than the MGW, and look authentic enough.  

If you decide to research the Bar-Sto recoil spring thing, let us know what you find.
Link Posted: 3/1/2014 1:24:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2014 1:30:42 PM EDT by chip8541]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hobbs5624:
A note on parts for early ("Variant 1" through "Variant 3") pistols. That tech manual floating around out there that is dated 1994 has a listing for just about everything.  When I started building mine, I looked up all those parts numbers.  I noted that almost everything had either a CAGE Code/NSN number or a Brownells parts number.  There are search engines for the CAGEC and NSNs.  I've found it best to just google those numbers, as some of those search engines will bring back generic results.  If anyone is curious about a specific part, I can tell you from experience every one of those CAGEC and NSNs can be found.  Most small parts are USGI.

As for Brownells parts numbers, just ask me.  I have a 1994 Brownells catalog on hand.  Some of those parts, such as the Videki trigger, can easily be substituted by the use of a Greider trigger.  Greider after all bought out the Videki tooling.  Some other things of note that I found while building mine:

-The MGW hammer specified in the manual is impossible to find new in the wrapper.  However, I can tell you from memory building with those hammers back in the 90s, they are like a 90s era Colt Commander hammer with a countersunk hole, but they do not have relieved sides, and they have a Series 70 captive half cock notch.  Very few hammers were made with that combination of features.  Since you can't work around the Series 70 captive half cock notch, if you're aim is the very finest details, it's easy enough to get an early used Colt hammer and simply countersink the hole, or you could get a Swenson hammer from Midway and do the same.  The Swenson is of low quality, so I would go with a Colt.

-I wondered if the Bar-Sto barrel of today was the same as those used in the 90s.  Though I had installed them back then I remembered the font being smaller.  A call to Bar-Sto confirmed they are identical to the ones being made in California back in the 90s, including the hood markings.

-The sear, which I never see anyone talk about, is an MGW.  I spoke to MGW last year.  They have no old stock, have no plans to produce any of these old parts, and have nobody around that remembers the fine details regarding appearance or material.  I can tell you that an MGW sear, again from having installed them back then, looks like a plain blued steal sear with a square face, no extra material for take up, and has the double crescent cut on the rear curve.  In other words, it looks like most standard sears.

-The Pachmayr grips back then had no provision for an ambi safety cutout.  Not that it matters, but I'm mentioning it for those who are into the small details.

-This is more for the do-it-yourselfers or for your smiths.  For those who haven't fit a King's safety before, they suck in one aspect.  The detent hole is always too low on the face of the safety.  Sure, you can move it up, but on a King's the area above is so thin, you end up with an unsightly circle with the detent exposed above the lever.  I mention it for two reasons.  I left mine where it's at, because changing it was damned ugly.  That means you have a safety that can have two stopping points in the down position.  It's not a functional issue, but an issue of annoyance.  You flick down your safety, and if you push down further it will move down further.  Fitting it correctly for a nice feel will result in that unsightly exposed detent issue.  You choose your evil on that one.

Those are just some random thoughts on parts.  Good luck folks on your builds.
View Quote


I did an NSN search as well and came up with the same a week back. Lots of GI parts and a few parts like the Kings 201A, Clark beavertail, Barsto barrel, Wolf spring pack, EGW Hammer/sear, Millett sight, Videcki trigger etc. I did however come up with Nowlin as a supplier of a replacement part when I did the NSN search for the sear.

Some more food for thought for you guys building the variant 1 through 3's. I also am using a Greider trigger as its the closest to the Videcki there is. Something else i'm using in substitution for the EGW Hammer and sear is one of Karl Lippards older ring hammers and A2 sears in S7. (not his A3 setup) They are nearly identical and he said he has a few left in stock if you give him a call.  All the other parts are as per NSN.
Link Posted: 3/1/2014 7:23:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2014 1:43:33 PM EDT by mlin]
Added M45A1 to my arsenal. Shoot on par with my SACS MEUSOC variant 1 replica. Also manage to chip the cerakote finish at the rear of the slide in day one. The trigger breaks clean feel like 4 to 4.5 lb, but have a lot of up/down movement and felt loosely when you shake the gun. Also breavertail fit is like production gun, not the seemless fit like most $2000 custom 1911. Overall all, very happy with it.

By the way, I believe the G10 grips was made by Mil-tac. Textures looks similar to VZ Diamond Back G10 but they feel much less aggressive to my hands in comparison with the other VZ Grips I have.




Link Posted: 3/1/2014 8:15:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mlin:
Also manage to chip the cerakote finish at the rear of the slide in day one.
View Quote


Well, since the value is totally destroyed... I guess I'll trade you some AR parts for it.
Link Posted: 3/2/2014 8:51:16 PM EDT
Looks like the Cerakote is a little thin on the back of the hammer and slide.  Maybe that's why it chipped?  Regardless, that's just a character mark.  That gun is way nice.  I don't know if you have more than one MEU(SOC) version, but you should post your clone(s) with that gun.  Sort of a family portrait.
Link Posted: 3/3/2014 4:13:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2014 5:35:08 PM EDT by mlin]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hobbs5624:
Looks like the Cerakote is a little thin on the back of the hammer and slide.  Maybe that's why it chipped?  Regardless, that's just a character mark.  That gun is way nice.  I don't know if you have more than one MEU(SOC) version, but you should post your clone(s) with that gun.  Sort of a family portrait.
View Quote

I am suspecting that as well. Don't recall anything hit the rear of the slide. Maybe just a bad finish spot from factory. Found that triangle shape chip when I wipe down the gun after 1st range session. The Cerakote on mine was uneven in a few spots including the places you pointed out and some places on the integrated rail. No worry to me since its stainless steel slide and I use it any way. I got lucky finding a lead on this Colt Marine Pistol by accident. Paid MSRP $2050 before shipping, tax, and transfer fees. Never imaging that I will ever get it due to price madness of this particular Colt pistol. But, if you ask me to choose one, I will still take my variant 1 replica over M45A1. Just a more classic 1911 setup and a full-custom built.

I will post photos of my replicas together next month. Currently, besides variant 1, I have another one that is not an exact replica but similar to the small batch of 1911A1 supplied by SACS to Marines. I still have enough spare parts and even refinish GI frame to build a more authentic variant 1. Very tempted to have another replica build but have to wait due to limited fund I am "allowed" to use. Also, if I build another variant 1, I probably won't stop there, it will be a variant 4 in the future to complete the whole family theme.

Link Posted: 3/3/2014 7:59:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2014 8:01:57 AM EDT by samuse]
mlin that Springfield is very nice.

Did you have that built on a Mil-Spec or is it a full Custom Shop build?

IMO that's the best variant.  The earlier ones look cool, but the parts are outdated and discontinued for a good reason.  Progress and all.  

Link Posted: 3/3/2014 10:43:37 AM EDT
mlin, you did well price wise.  I passed up one for $2200 two months back.  Kicking myself now.
Link Posted: 3/3/2014 1:15:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2014 5:37:49 PM EDT by mlin]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:
mlin that Springfield is very nice.

Did you have that built on a Mil-Spec or is it a full Custom Shop build?

IMO that's the best variant.  The earlier ones look cool, but the parts are outdated and discontinued for a good reason.  Progress and all.  

View Quote

That one was a beat-up standard model from late 1980s. It cost me probably about the same if I ordered a brand new SA Custom Carry.  But it was a good performer, I just don't want to get rid of it. I sent in for a complete overhaul/rebuild with SA in-house NM barrel/bushing, tool steel hammer/sear, speed trigger, beavertail, checkered MSH w/ lanyard loop, Novaks' sights etc.  Springfield replaced the original slide (under warranty, no cost to me) to current mil-spec slide. The custom shop did an excellent slide/frame lapping old school way. This one came out nicely and also take only 1 1/2 months to complete.
Link Posted: 3/3/2014 2:51:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mlin:

That one was a beat-up standard model from late 1980s. It cost me probably about the same if I ordered a brand new SA Custom Carry.  But it was a good performer, I just don't want to get rid of it. I sent in for a complete overhaul/rebuild with SA in-house NM barrel/bushing, tool steel hammer/sear, speed trigger, beavertail, checkered MSH w/ lanyard loop, Novaks' sights etc.  Springfield replaced the original slide (under warranty, no cost to me) to current mil-spec slide. The custom shop did an excellent slide/frame lapping old school way. This one cam out nicely and also take only 1 1/2 months to complete.
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Originally Posted By mlin:
Originally Posted By samuse:
mlin that Springfield is very nice.

Did you have that built on a Mil-Spec or is it a full Custom Shop build?

IMO that's the best variant.  The earlier ones look cool, but the parts are outdated and discontinued for a good reason.  Progress and all.  


That one was a beat-up standard model from late 1980s. It cost me probably about the same if I ordered a brand new SA Custom Carry.  But it was a good performer, I just don't want to get rid of it. I sent in for a complete overhaul/rebuild with SA in-house NM barrel/bushing, tool steel hammer/sear, speed trigger, beavertail, checkered MSH w/ lanyard loop, Novaks' sights etc.  Springfield replaced the original slide (under warranty, no cost to me) to current mil-spec slide. The custom shop did an excellent slide/frame lapping old school way. This one cam out nicely and also take only 1 1/2 months to complete.


Springfield is top notch no doubt.   I have two Custom Carry 5" 45s and an Expert Limited that's back at the custom shop right now getting a better slide.  

If you ever decide to sell that Springer, gimme first dibs.  
Link Posted: 3/3/2014 7:02:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2014 7:05:02 PM EDT by Pleaforwar]
A couple new pieces for my ICQB build.





Parabellum226, you did me a solid brother by guiding me to these. Thank you.
Link Posted: 3/3/2014 7:33:59 PM EDT
I may be mistaken, but that picture Mlin posted is an actual SACS interim gun.  Note the USMC serial number.  If you are doing a clone of that Mlin, that's very cool.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:
mlin that Springfield is very nice.

Did you have that built on a Mil-Spec or is it a full Custom Shop build?

IMO that's the best variant.  The earlier ones look cool, but the parts are outdated and discontinued for a good reason.  Progress and all.  

View Quote

Link Posted: 3/4/2014 12:34:16 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pleaforwar:
A couple new pieces for my ICQB build.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7374/12916246733_f7cd741eec_z.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7379/12916249333_a256cd23c2_z.jpg

Parabellum226, you did me a solid brother by guiding me to these. Thank you.
View Quote


Looks good! Glad it worked out.
Link Posted: 3/4/2014 1:04:37 PM EDT
In case some of you guys don't venture out of Tech.  

Hobbs5624
Link Posted: 3/4/2014 1:17:44 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bcw107:
In case some of you guys don't venture out of Tech.  

Hobbs5624
View Quote


One day he is  posting, living, laughing, building, breathing.... Living  a life of protecting others and chasing down the scum of the earth, probably not making as much as he deserves .... but every night going home to your wife and three kids.
The next day g-d wants you back.
RIP.
terrible terrible. :-(
Link Posted: 3/4/2014 1:18:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bcw107:
In case some of you guys don't venture out of Tech.  

Hobbs5624
View Quote


One day he is  posting, living, laughing, building, breathing.... Living  a life of protecting others and chasing down the scum of the earth, probably not making as much as he deserves .... but every night going home to your wife and three kids.
The next day g-d wants you back.
RIP.
terrible terrible. :-(
Link Posted: 3/4/2014 1:58:43 PM EDT
Well this just ruined my day to hear of this.  Spoke to him many of times through email and an on the thread here.  He had helped me out in more ways that one.  Such a nice, intelligent guy.  I pray for his family, wife, and kids in these difficult times....
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