Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Member Login

Posted: 9/4/2006 8:00:17 PM EDT
Went to brunch and ran errands with the gf today and mysteriously ended up at a gun store I got to looking at thier handguns and decided I might need a new .40 * insert justification here*. I used the increase in homocides in the Omaha metro area where I own a home and spend some of my time...This was a great reason as the gf was concerned about the shootings and didn't say "another handgun? You only have two hands." Anyways, I was looking at the FN FNP .40, Beretta PX4 .40, Sig Pro 2022 and Smith and Wesson M&P. I have always loved the feel/grip/balance of the Smith and I have heard some good things*though I have heard some bad also* and decided to purchase it. I have shot them/examined them several times and though it was time to own one...big mistake.

I got the gun home and promptly cleaned/lubed it, just as I do with all my other handguns. I particularly didn't like having to use a tool to disassemble the gun, but I was willing to look past this feature and the magazine safety*which the store promised me was absent on this gun* was also something I was willing to get over. The gun was dirty from manufacturing and test firing, but I got it spotless and put it back together.
I was going to load it with the intention of placing it in ready-storage. Just to make sure everyting was assembled correctly, I got out my snail and attemped to cycle through the magazine to ensure proper function.

My .40 S&W load is 155grn Gold Dots and thats exactly what I loaded both magazines with. To ensure that I didn't cause any malfunction, I pushed the grip with my left hand and pulled the slide with my right and then let it slam full-force into battery. 2 rounds would feed/eject and then I would experience a failure. The nose of the bullet would catch on the slide near the chamber and get caught sideways, causing a failure. This happend multiple times, in both factory provided magazines. I thought perhaps the Gold Dot wasn't agreeing with this gun and tried Hydrashoks, Golden Sabres, Ranger T's and DPX's...the same occured with all of them. I even tried 180grn FMJ's and the resul was the same.There was an area on the slide where it was clear the bullets where impacting. It was almost like the rounds were too long for the gun.... I was out of ideas and any gun that won't feed Gold Dots 100% reliably isn't a gun for Ryno's.

In any event, I took it back and the manger performed the same experiment with WWB FMJ's and the same thing happend. I was too pissed...this is the second S&W automatic that I have owned that turned out to be a piece of fuck. I don't know exactly what the cause was, but it may have been caused by too much material in the area where the bullets eject. Whatever the problem, it wouldn't extract more than 1 or 2 rounds without failing. This doesn't exactly inspire confidence in a defensive weapon.
They graciously accepted the weapon in return and I exchanged it for a Sig Pro 2022 in .40 S&W and was quite happy.

Not sure what all of this means, only that I had a very negative experience with my M&P and I didn't even get a chance to shoot it...which is good because I would be even more pissed if I wasted more time/ammo....testing this gun destoryed around 30 rounds of good quality JHP ammunition by seriously denting/damaging the case.
Oh well, lesson learned. No S&W automatics that aren't the 5906 or 4506, two that I know work.
Link Posted: 9/4/2006 8:50:28 PM EDT
Did it happen with both mags?
Link Posted: 9/4/2006 9:34:37 PM EDT

Quoted:
Went to brunch and ran errands with the gf today and mysteriously ended up at a gun store I got to looking at thier handguns and decided I might need a new .40 * insert justification here*. I used the increase in homocides in the Omaha metro area where I own a home and spend some of my time...This was a great reason as the gf was concerned about the shootings and didn't say "another handgun? You only have two hands." Anyways, I was looking at the FN FNP .40, Beretta PX4 .40, Sig Pro 2022 and Smith and Wesson M&P. I have always loved the feel/grip/balance of the Smith and I have heard some good things*though I have heard some bad also* and decided to purchase it. I have shot them/examined them several times and though it was time to own one...big mistake.

I got the gun home and promptly cleaned/lubed it, just as I do with all my other handguns. I particularly didn't like having to use a tool to disassemble the gun, but I was willing to look past this feature and the magazine safety*which the store promised me was absent on this gun* was also something I was willing to get over. The gun was dirty from manufacturing and test firing, but I got it spotless and put it back together.
I was going to load it with the intention of placing it in ready-storage. Just to make sure everyting was assembled correctly, I got out my snail and attemped to cycle through the magazine to ensure proper function.

My .40 S&W load is 155grn Gold Dots and thats exactly what I loaded both magazines with. To ensure that I didn't cause any malfunction, I pushed the grip with my left hand and pulled the slide with my right and then let it slam full-force into battery. 2 rounds would feed/eject and then I would experience a failure. The nose of the bullet would catch on the slide near the chamber and get caught sideways, causing a failure. This happend multiple times, in both factory provided magazines. I thought perhaps the Gold Dot wasn't agreeing with this gun and tried Hydrashoks, Golden Sabres, Ranger T's and DPX's...the same occured with all of them. I even tried 180grn FMJ's and the resul was the same.There was an area on the slide where it was clear the bullets where impacting. It was almost like the rounds were too long for the gun.... I was out of ideas and any gun that won't feed Gold Dots 100% reliably isn't a gun for Ryno's.

In any event, I took it back and the manger performed the same experiment with WWB FMJ's and the same thing happend. I was too pissed...this is the second S&W automatic that I have owned that turned out to be a piece of fuck. I don't know exactly what the cause was, but it may have been caused by too much material in the area where the bullets eject. Whatever the problem, it wouldn't extract more than 1 or 2 rounds without failing. This doesn't exactly inspire confidence in a defensive weapon.
They graciously accepted the weapon in return and I exchanged it for a Sig Pro 2022 in .40 S&W and was quite happy.

Not sure what all of this means, only that I had a very negative experience with my M&P and I didn't even get a chance to shoot it...which is good because I would be even more pissed if I wasted more time/ammo....testing this gun destoryed around 30 rounds of good quality JHP ammunition by seriously denting/damaging the case.
Oh well, lesson learned. No S&W automatics that aren't the 5906 or 4506, two that I know work.


I will never buy a S&W autoloading pistol, there revolvers are a different story...........Glad you got a sig you will love it.
Link Posted: 9/4/2006 10:33:36 PM EDT
I have yet to have a problem with any of the Smith autos I have (M&P, 908, 4046, 4043, SW99). I run Hydrashoks, Rangers, and WWB mainly through them with a mixture of Corbon loads being thrown in. I have yet to have a malfunction that wasn't purposely set by me occur. I have full confindence in the Smith line (minus the SW99..... issues with them at work).


And...... I have yet to see a company relase a line of firearms that didnt have the occasional "Friday" gun.
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 12:24:19 AM EDT

They graciously accepted the weapon in return and I exchanged it for a Sig Pro 2022 in .40 S&W and was quite happy.


Smart man. I have had two decent Smith & Wesson centerfire auto pistols. One was a 457 and the other was a pre-lawsuite 9mm Sigma. Both of the post-lawsuite .40 Sigmas were garbage and the 909? or 910? did not work properly either. I am done with any Smith auto. I do like the 1911s though.
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 5:24:47 AM EDT

Quoted:

They graciously accepted the weapon in return and I exchanged it for a Sig Pro 2022 in .40 S&W and was quite happy.


Smart man. I have had two decent Smith & Wesson centerfire auto pistols. One was a 457 and the other was a pre-lawsuite 9mm Sigma. Both of the post-lawsuite .40 Sigmas were garbage and the 909? or 910? did not work properly either. I am done with any Smith auto. I do like the 1911s though.


Now hear this.

Law suite = A law office.

Law suit = a legal action.

That is all.  
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 5:25:17 AM EDT
My magazines were a little gunky when I got my M&P 9 (which I love by the way, even though I'm a 1911 guy).

I squirted a little CLP on them and cycled the follower up and down.  Sure you didn't have a magazine problem?
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 5:29:52 AM EDT
I'm surprised you didn't go for a Glock
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 5:42:52 AM EDT
Personally any person who returns a firearm as "defective" without having FIRST live fired that firearm a minumum of 25 - 100 rounds is a nut.

Hand cycling proves nothing IMO.


The only "piece of fuck" I see in this thread is you.

Mike

ps - while not a fan of S&W semi-autos, (old or new) I most certainly have NEVER bashed one I didn't actually live fire.

 
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 7:46:38 AM EDT
I wish you'd got the FNP-40 instead.  I've been waiting to read an in-depth review of that particular piece of fornication.

Link Posted: 9/5/2006 7:50:50 AM EDT
this should be good.
Very tough call for me on the hand cycling vs. live fire
100% on the fence on this one :: awaiting general consensus ::

edit to add:

Quoted:
I wish you'd got the FNP-40 instead.  I've been waiting to read an in-depth review of that particular piece of fornication.


BIG +1 there bud.  That piece looks dead sexy.  Reminds of how a Sig used to look before the rail.
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 8:14:38 AM EDT
I have this WW II era 1911 that wont eject live ammo, what a POS. (that was a joke)

No rounds fired means nothing.  Of the 4 I have fired in 40 all ran just fine with ball and lead reloads.
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 8:17:39 AM EDT
you brought it back without firing it?

Link Posted: 9/5/2006 8:23:51 AM EDT
Fuck, if you can't even rack the piece of shit how are you supposed to do anything with it?

Man you guys are fucking hard the guy.

I'd have done the same thing.

The rest of you clowns would have shot it and then sold it as new to some guy at a gun show, because you couldn't get your money back any other way, right?
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 10:21:21 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

They graciously accepted the weapon in return and I exchanged it for a Sig Pro 2022 in .40 S&W and was quite happy.


Smart man. I have had two decent Smith & Wesson centerfire auto pistols. One was a 457 and the other was a pre-lawsuite 9mm Sigma. Both of the post-lawsuite .40 Sigmas were garbage and the 909? or 910? did not work properly either. I am done with any Smith auto. I do like the 1911s though.


Now hear this.

Law suite = A law office.

Law suit = a legal action.

That is all.  




Thanks I am sure no one knew what I meant until you came and saved the day. I had every one thinking my Sigmas were sitting in a law office. I will go home and write the correct spelling five times each. I am so ashamed but because of you help I have a new out look on life.
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 10:32:48 AM EDT
I agree. You should be able to hand cycle a full magazine without getting a jam. All my hand guns that function 100% while firing you can also hand cycle. The ones that have jamed while firing some times jam while hand cycling and are not fit to be in my collection let alone carry if it can not be repaired to function 100% which is usually the case.
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 11:52:28 AM EDT
try and cycle a WW II 1911, it jams on ejecting live ammo, but spits empty shell casing out just fine.
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 4:17:41 PM EDT
I'd hate to be the owner of the gunshop where you shop. Don't have much luck with pistols it seems. Maybe try a revolver.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=16&t=33212

Ryno posted in the Smith & Wesson section about the S&W 1911:

"Actually, the gun was a piece of fuck and it would choke no matter what I did. I shoot only WWB through all of my handguns and the gun came with two ACT magazines and I bought 8 WC 47D's.I made it perfectly clear to all of these people, with the exception of Cylander and Slide, that I was seeking information to see if they knew anything about this problem. No body offered me any services or prices, just a suggestion of how I could fix it, for which they suggested milling the slide to install the Performance Center extractor, which some of them had done. In any event, my S&W was a piece of fuck and turned into a jamomatic. I spent the extra $$$ to buy what I though would be a better gun and to avoid possible problems with internal extractors...what a joke.
I am glad you like your S&W's....good for you. Mine was a piece of shit and I was simply trying to help by telling you why mine failed. You would think you people would be interested in learning about a possible issue with your guns. Instead, you jump all over me and act like assholes, because you guys know everything and you and your guns are perfect, right? The only thing I hate more than 1911's are thier elitist/know it all/asshole owners. I should have known better than to try to reason with guys who probably think a 1911 is more reliable than a G21 or USP. Have some more kool aid, snobs."
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 4:48:42 PM EDT
Oh Snap!  


I think the revolver suggestion was right on par.  Maybe a TC single shot would reduce the likelyhood of a FTF/FTE even more.  

I've got a Sigma that I bought for the simple fact that it was cheap to buy and shoot, and it's not the greatest gun in the world, but it has yet to let me down.  It doesn't hold an accuracy candle to the rest of my pistol fleet, but I didn't pay a grand for it either.
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 6:10:51 PM EDT
height=8
Personally any person who returns a firearm as "defective" without having FIRST live fired that firearm a minumum of 25 - 100 rounds is a nut.

I would have tried to be a little more diplomatic but you sum up my thoughts very succinctly.

"I bought a gun and it was a huge piece of crap?"
"Oh what'd it do when you were shooting?"
"Well I never actually shot it..."
Link Posted: 9/5/2006 8:27:30 PM EDT
Try knitting.

I love how everything's a peice of "fuck" too.  Kind of funny.

I don't know about you, but the last thing I do is sit around cycling live ammunition through a firearm that hasn't proven itself yet.

Next time you want to see if a gun cycles, load up the mag, point it down range, and pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 9/6/2006 12:54:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2006 2:37:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2006 2:39:13 PM EDT
Wow, haven't seen or heard of this problem yet. Mine has been absolutly flawless. Fact is, I'm ordering a M&P 9 this week.
Link Posted: 9/6/2006 9:02:46 PM EDT
Must be a full fucking moon.

IBTL
Link Posted: 9/6/2006 9:09:35 PM EDT
Mike,
If you read my post, you would have noticed that I have actually fired S&W M&P's and found them to be excellent weapons...which is what prompted me to buy one. How am I supposed to fire a weapon that doesn't even manually cycle rounds?  Firing this weapon would have voided my ability to return it...since it was having problems without being fired, it didn't make sense to fire it and not be able to take it back.
Oh Mike.....maybe if your wife wasn't so fat, you wouldn't be so angry.
Link Posted: 9/6/2006 9:22:53 PM EDT
Yes, I did call my S&W 1911 a "piece of fuck"...because it really was. I have had horrible luck with S&W automatics. My 1911 failed to feed/extract reliably, no matter what I did....so alas, I returned it. Why would I keep a defective gun? I decided to give S&W another chance and was let down again. As I stated, I was placing this gun in ready-storage and I thought it would be prudent to manually cycle the ammunition to ensure reliable feeding before possibly depending on it for defense....not that I would have needed it, but you never know...I tried all of my .40 ammo and the same thing happened. My friend at the gun store who sold it to me did the same experiment and the same thing happend....For those of you who don't know, buying a gun is much like buying a car...once you drive it, its pretty much yours. Had I fired this gun, I would have been force to take it up with Smith, which wasn't acceptible to me...Paying 500+ and having the gun choke after only an hour doesn't inspire much confidence. My gun store actually loves me...I buy alot of guns from them. The owner was a 1911 armorer in the USMC and stopped carrying the S&W 1911 after firing mine and witnessing its poor performance. He called me today after he spoke with the S&W and the rep is going to personally examine my M&P to figure out what was going on. Both of them suspected the slide was out of spec....

In any event, I bought a gun, took it home and cleaned it. I got out the Snail and tried to cycle some rounds and it wouldn't....why would I shoot a gun like this? I own H&K's, Sigs, Glocks, Berettas and more and I haven't had any problems with them under identical circumstances. I have had bad luck with S&W auto's, and after reading the responses...I am not the only one. So I guess by Mikes standards, you are a piece of fuck if you don't like S&W autos because they suck. I am really getting to hate this place...I was simply sharing my experience and I get ripped to pieces, for what? If your M&P is good, super...mine wasn't.  Why should I tolerate this behaviour from a brand new gun, especially since I have never had problems with my other automatic handguns. If I ever get to be a 50 something elitist asshole that jumps all over people because they say something I disagree with, I am going to do ARFCOM and the world a favor and blow my fucking head off. To bad Mr.Wilson doesn't follow my example.
Link Posted: 9/6/2006 9:28:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2006 9:30:20 PM EDT
personal attacks / conduct code violations
Top Top