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Posted: 11/12/2010 5:35:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 5:40:49 AM EDT
[#1]
You providing the ammo? If so, I'm in.



-Foxxz
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 5:41:12 AM EDT
[#2]
Here's an account of 2,000 rounds through a surplus FN hi-power.  One FTF in 2,000 rounds.

Pistol: 1989 FN Herstal Hi-Power (P35)
Caliber: 9x19mm
Ammunition: GECO/DAG 124gr. 9mm NATO, Winchester 124gr. 9mm NATO, Dynamit Nobel 124 gr. 9mm Luger, Winchester Ranger 124gr +P, Sellier & Bellot "Range Safe" 115 gr. FMJ, Brown Bear steel case 115 gr. FMJ
Dates of testing: October & November 2010
Total rounds fired: 2,002+
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

Notes:
The pistol was purchased well-used off the EE here at ar15.com; magazines were primarily Inglis-pattern Indian military surplus, with some FN factory mags, Mec-Gar mags and an Argentine KRD 17-round mag in the mix.  One malfunction at round 1,238 which occurred while using the KRD magazine and wearing thick leather gloves due to weather.  Gloves may have caused the sincle stoppage, which was a FTF.  Toward the end of the shooting, the screws holding the factory plastic grip panels worked loose, causing the grips to rotate some.  It took two full turns on each screw to tighten them back down.  Before testing started, a new 18.5-pound Wolff extra-power recoil spring was installed.

Link Posted: 11/12/2010 5:44:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 5:47:26 AM EDT
[#4]



Quoted:



Quoted:

You providing the ammo?



-Foxxz




Hell no.


Darn I'm headed out to the cove saturday and was hoping!



-Foxxz



 
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 5:58:44 AM EDT
[#5]
I'd put the P99 up to the test, but I don't think I can afford the ammo right now.

I'll hang out for the show though.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 6:08:08 AM EDT
[#6]
2K isn't that much.  You should consider 5K the minimum before cleaning.  If you do though, the only guns you'll have listed will be Glocks.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 6:15:07 AM EDT
[#7]
I love this test conceptually, but ammo costs prohibit it.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 6:35:58 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
I love this test conceptually, but ammo costs prohibit it.


I would love to be able to participate.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 6:44:32 AM EDT
[#9]
i like this idea, though i don't know how many people will participate because of whatever reasons. I will participate, i have plenty of ammo to make this happen. I wish this was up when i was hitting the training courses hard. But that is alright.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 6:46:36 AM EDT
[#10]
Dang. I just finished putting a case of wolf (1000 rounds) through my M&P9 without any cleaning or lube. I stripped it of lube before I started shooting, and it took me about 3 months to shoot the ammo up. I had no failures at all. My total roundcount for this gun is about 1,500 rounds. I cleaned it after I finished the case, but now I wish I could start on another thousand to do this test.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 7:42:53 AM EDT
[#11]
Sounds interesting.  After an ammo purchase at the fun show next week I should have enough to do this.

Now I wonder which M&P 9 to use- the bone stock one or the Apex-fucked one.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 7:47:16 AM EDT
[#12]
I'd love to...but I'm way too OCD about cleaning my guns to even think about it.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 7:52:22 AM EDT
[#13]
This seems really cool, and I'm game but it might take me a looooong time.  I would probably do 9mm because of cost but I have a whole litter than needs fed. I already keep track of my round couts religiously in an Excel spreadsheet including the deltas between cleanings.  I'll give it a shot and see what happens though.... One thing that helps me is I am way lazy when it comes to cleaning my guns. My two top runners would be my P30L at 500 rounds since last cleaning, and my G17 RTF2 with 634 since last cleaning (well, first actually! No cleaning or lube on that since it lfet the factory). Told you I was religious about it!  If there is still interest in this thread when I get close I'll be sure to finish it up.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 8:17:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I'd love to...but I'm way too OCD about cleaning my guns to even think about it.


Me too.  

But it's a great concept JW_777.  

Link Posted: 11/12/2010 8:26:40 AM EDT
[#15]
I've owned glocks since 2002 but have never cleaned one.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 8:33:12 AM EDT
[#16]
Pistol:  Bryco Jennings J38
Caliber:  .380acp
Ammunition: WWB
Rounds fired: 4
Stoppages: 4
Fingers lost:  1.25


Good thread, though!     Could be interesting and long-lasting.

Link Posted: 11/12/2010 8:38:11 AM EDT
[#17]
I'll get on this.





I have two pistol classes coming up in the next 4 months.





I'll be using a glock 22, with around 600 rounds through it so far. So brand new as far as I'm concerned.





I'll take detailed pics tonight when I clean it.





Also: does anyone have a sample spreadsheet for the logbook pages?

Link Posted: 11/12/2010 8:38:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Shot steel shoots each month from May to October = at least 2000 rounds but not specifically "counted".

Pistol: Sig P226 Caliber: 9mm
Ammunition: Federal 115 9mm (Walmart )
Dates of testing: May 15 / Oct.15
Total rounds fired: 2000
Stoppages: 0
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

Notes: Never cleaned or oiled gun over this time (still haven't ) but did wipe down the outside of the mags
to prevent rust from sweat.

I have a new M&P 9mm that I will put through the same test next years steel shoots.


GM
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 9:19:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Pistol: Para LDA 7.45
Caliber: 45
Ammunition: 155 grain handloads [hot] + Aluminum CCI 230  
Dates of testing: the last 2 years
Total rounds fired: 2 full cases [2000 rounds] of the CCi 230's and close to 500 of the 155's
Stoppages: 0
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0
Notes: This is my primary IPSC/3 gun pistol.  I started out using only Shooting Star mags with Wolff springs so I have never had mag issues.  I have lightly lubed this gun [one drop on bbl hood and one drop on each of the frame rails.]  This gun has not been cleaned in 2 years.  I don't think the NO lube part of the challenge is apporpriate, but I can see excess lube can take the place of cleaning.  I have used pro-shot lube in the needle oiler and literally only applied 3 drops directly before each match.  
Guess this doesent count because of 1/2 oz of oil over the course of 2 years...  BUT the other 2 DO...

Pistol: Springfield XD-9 Tactical
Caliber: 9mm
Ammunition: 115 grain S&B [1200 rnds], 115 grain Winchester White Box [1300 rounds],
Dates of testing: The last year
Total rounds fired: 2500+
Stoppages: 0
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0
Notes:  I have never cleaned or lubed this pistol since it was new.  This is my backup IPSC/3 gun pistol.  I replaced the sights during this period [night sights], but didn't clean it.


Pistol: Glock G17 9mm
Caliber: 9mm
Ammunition: whatever was available
Dates of testing: 2 years
Total rounds fired: 2000+
Stoppages: 0
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0
Notes: This is my IPSC loaner gun and has seen at least 2000 rounds over the last couple years and I have not cleaned or lubed it.  I use this to loan to new shooters or shooters with equipment issues, and i don't care what type of ammo they use.  So far from handloads to Wolf, to whatever factory ammo, it has eaten everything...

Link Posted: 11/12/2010 9:43:54 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Pistol:  Bryco Jennings J38
Caliber:  .380acp
Ammunition: WWB
Rounds fired: 4
Stoppages: 4
Fingers lost:  1.25


Good thread, though!     Could be interesting and long-lasting.



Link Posted: 11/12/2010 9:52:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 10:16:55 AM EDT
[#22]
I disagree with the premise, now carrying a gun day in day out in all kinds of conditions for six months to a year without maintenance, cleaning, or lubrication and see how long it will run on your carry ammunition would be a test relevant to the real world.




Link Posted: 11/12/2010 11:00:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Just shoot your gun 2000 times without cleaning or lubing and post the results.  Not exactly rocket science.

You want a different test or nit-pick this one, put it in a different thread.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 11:10:36 AM EDT
[#24]



Quoted:


Just shoot your gun 2000 times without cleaning or lubing and post the results.  Not exactly rocket science.



You want a different test or nit-pick this one, put it in a different thread.



No, I don't think so, I'll speak my mind within the bounds of the CoC anywhere on this site, anytime I feel like it.



Don't like it? There's a forum for that...



 
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 11:15:39 AM EDT
[#25]




Quoted:

I disagree with the premise, now carrying a gun day in day out in all kinds of conditions for six months to a year without maintenance, cleaning, or lubrication and see how long it will run on your carry ammunition would be a test relevant to the real world.







He said you could take as long as you want.  Six months, whatever.  Pretty straightforward I think.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 11:19:40 AM EDT
[#26]



Quoted:


2K isn't that much.  You should consider 5K the minimum before cleaning.  If you do though, the only guns you'll have listed will be Glocks.


That'd be my guess for the winner as well

 



Tag for results as people post 'em.



Link Posted: 11/12/2010 11:39:12 AM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 11:45:15 AM EDT
[#28]



Quoted:



Quoted:

I disagree with the premise, now carrying a gun day in day out in all kinds of conditions for six months to a year without maintenance, cleaning, or lubrication and see how long it will run on your carry ammunition would be a test relevant to the real world.





The period of time in which the 2,000 rounds is fired is irrelevant. All you need to do is fire 2,000 rounds through the gun with no cleaning, no additional lubrication, and no maintenance. If you do it in one day or in one decade, it's still good.


Not my point at all.



I was suggesting that the day to day debris that accumulates in carry guns over an extended period of time and how said gun handles such with duty ammunition instead of ball ammo would be more relevant to me.
 
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 11:53:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 12:24:35 PM EDT
[#30]



Quoted:



Quoted:

Not my point at all.



I was suggesting that the day to day debris that accumulates in carry guns over an extended period of time and how said gun handles such with duty ammunition instead of ball ammo would be more relevant to me.





The guns I've done the 2,000 round challenge with were both carry guns at the time of the testing. My M&P hadn't been cleaned before the challenge. I just lubed it the night before the class and then when the class was over I carried it for a while with no additional cleaning or lubrication with a couple more range trips thrown in...but I did not log round counts on those trips so I didn't include it in the challenge. The same is true of the P30...I still haven't cleaned or lubed it, but I'm carrying it daily.


Isn't that a bit risky? I mean, I get that you want to test the durability, but the weapon you trust your life in should get every advantage right?

This is why I'm doing it with my non-carry glock.



 
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 12:27:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
2K isn't that much.  You should consider 5K the minimum before cleaning.  If you do though, the only guns you'll have listed will be Glocks.


You do know the military specification for the 1911 (100 years ago)  was 5000 rounds right?
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 12:55:06 PM EDT
[#32]
I saw this challenge on another website and tried it. But after 1500 rounds the slide became real slugish so I stoped.

The gun was a Sig 226 9mm.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 1:08:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I don't think the NO lube part of the challenge is apporpriate,


That's the most important part.


Quoted:
2K isn't that much.  You should consider 5K the minimum before cleaning.  If you do though, the only guns you'll have listed will be Glocks.


No offense, but that's a fairly ignorant statement. I hope this thread does not turn into fan boys arguing what gun could and would make it, but a thread where people actually post their truthful 2,000 round test so actual data could be taken from it.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 1:15:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think the NO lube part of the challenge is apporpriate,


The challenge is what it is.

2,000 rounds. No cleaning, no additional lubrication, no changing any parts....just running the gun for 2,000 rounds without doing anything to it.

This year I ran an M&P for over 6,000 rounds without cleaning...but I lubed it a couple of times and so I don't count it.


Well, I added that in the interest of disclosure, because, technically, I started this almost 2 years before the "challenge" started.  So, I guess I should edit my post, cause I wouldn't run to run afoul of the OP...
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 1:19:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:


You do know the military specification for the 1911 (100 years ago)  was 5000 rounds right?


I've never seen a non-uber custom 1911 that can make it through a USPSA match without a malf.  Good luck on 5000 rounds with a USGI one.


Link Posted: 11/12/2010 1:23:14 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:

No offense, but that's a fairly ignorant statement. I hope this thread does not turn into fan boys arguing what gun could and would make it, but a thread where people actually post their truthful 2,000 round test so actual data could be taken from it.


I generally shoot 20K rounds a year of 9mm in training and competitions all over the US.  I've owned Glocks, Berettas, Sigs, S&W, HKs, Walthers, Rugers, STIs, and CZ handguns.  Glocks are top of the heap on reliability.  It's just a fact.  

Link Posted: 11/12/2010 1:27:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:

No offense, but that's a fairly ignorant statement. I hope this thread does not turn into fan boys arguing what gun could and would make it, but a thread where people actually post their truthful 2,000 round test so actual data could be taken from it.


I generally shoot 20K rounds a year of 9mm in training and competitions all over the US.  I've owned Glocks, Berettas, Sigs, S&W, HKs, Walthers, Rugers, STIs, and CZ handguns.  Glocks are top of the heap on reliability.  It's just a fact.  



I'm not disagreeing with that, but to claim that they will only be glocks is an exaggeration. 2,000 rounds without cleaning is not an impossible feat that only the all mighty glock can accomplish and it's dumb to assume so.

They're good guns, but not the Jesus gun. Especially the new Gen 4's that are having some growing pains.

Needless to say, i'm not goin to reply anymore on this matter just because I'd rather this thread be about the raw data
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 1:30:03 PM EDT
[#38]
I did this before with my Glock 35.  Bought it new and put 2 cases through it without cleaning or lube.  Zero problems whatsoever.  I'm sure my G19 and my 92FS have had that many without cleaning at least once.

I will play along with this challenge though.  I shoot my G19 the most, so I'll clean it up tonight before the match tomorrow.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 2:02:54 PM EDT
[#39]

Pistol: Glock 17 gen3
Caliber: 9mm
Ammunition: 115 grain Blazer, 115 grain Winchester White Box, American Eagle (115 grain), reloads of my own of various components and loads, Fiocci 115g JHP, Fiocci 147 FMJ, Fiocci 124 JHP, and some others, but cant find the log book right now and my memory is getting old.
Dates of testing: 8/99-12/99
Total rounds fired: 10,250
Stoppages: 0
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0
Notes: The Glock17 used was my primary carry piece at the time. It had 500 rounds fired through it prior to the test with 2 stoppages in that time, both in the first 60 rounds, weak hand only shooting. I suspect both to be my fault not the pistol. I did this test as part of a test for/under the direction of the Sheriff at the time. (he provided half the ammo)..... all sessions were logged as to the temp/weather, rounds fired, what type, and group size.  Groups never increased on average.

The pistol now has just over 140,000 rounds down range, still with ZERO malfunctions or breakages. Have had several stoppages using Fiocci ammo in the last couple of years (fail to fire)......I trust this gun.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 2:38:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Pistol: HK USP
Caliber: 9mm
Ammo: WWB, Federal 115gr FMJ
Date of testing: October 2008 - current
Total rounds fired: 4800+
Stoppages: 1(???)
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

I started shooting IDPA in Oct. 2008 twice a month going through 200 rounds a month to current date today.

1 stoppage due to another IDPA competitor using some really really old 9mm ammo that wouldn't feed 80% of the time. Brass felt waxy and was discolored. I offered to shoot some rounds through mine and low and behold my USP wouldn't go into full battery with that old ammo, same for a Glock 17 and G34(???) that were there as well. Tapping the slide did work though. We gave him some of our ammo and told  him to never come back with that shit.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 2:52:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
2K isn't that much.  You should consider 5K the minimum before cleaning.  If you do though, the only guns you'll have listed will be Glocks.


I'm surprised you guys don't go to www.pistol-training.com.  They do these tests and here are their results.  These are logged and documented in front of rooms of people (all rounds expended during training classes).  Have you *ever* heard of any other pistol going 33,154 rounds before its first malfunction?  Or 15,000 rounds without being cleaned/lubricated and having no malfunctions?  The H&K HK45 is a freak:

Pistol: H&K HK45
Caliber: .45acp
Ammunition: Various Factory
Dates of testing: 13 Apr 2010 - current
Total rounds fired: 44,968 (33,154 before first failure at 33,155),15,000 rounds in a row without cleaning and no failures
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 1
Breakages: 1

Pistol: H&K P30
Caliber: 9mm
Ammunition: Various Factory
Dates of testing: 2 May 2009 - 26 Mar 2010
Total rounds fired: 91,322 (7,386 before first failure at 7,387),12,000 rounds in a row without cleaning and no failures
Stoppages: 13
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 5

Pistol: S&W M&P9
Caliber: 9mm
Ammunition: Various Factory
Dates of testing: 22 Apr 2008 - 24 Nov 2008
Total rounds fired: 62,074 (11,693 before first failure at 11,694) (non-cleaning run was not performed)
Stoppages: 2
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 2
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 2:56:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:

Quoted:
2K isn't that much.  You should consider 5K the minimum before cleaning.  If you do though, the only guns you'll have listed will be Glocks.

That'd be my guess for the winner as well  

Tag for results as people post 'em.



Back in the late 80s my Dad reloaded a lot. I put well over 5000 rounds through my P85
without cleaning. The only reason I finally cleaned the pistol is Dad saw it and said he was
going to cut me off with all the free ammo until the pistol was cleaned to his satisfaction
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 3:48:34 PM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 7:24:00 PM EDT
[#44]
It's crazy. Shooting is not an endurance sport even in warfare. Hell, I don't have any pistol that will see 2000 rounds in my lifetime.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 7:45:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 7:51:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
It's crazy. Shooting is not an endurance sport even in warfare. Hell, I don't have any pistol that will see 2000 rounds in my lifetime.


That's kind of sad.  
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 7:53:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Tag.
Link Posted: 11/12/2010 8:29:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
It's crazy. Shooting is not an endurance sport even in warfare. Hell, I don't have any pistol that will see 2000 rounds in my lifetime.


How many rounds do you shoot per gun when you go shooting?
Link Posted: 11/13/2010 2:45:41 AM EDT
[#49]
Well I read the original thread over on the other forum, and it seems that the vast majority of the guns were Glocks, followed by H & K and S & W.  
Kinda interesting reading, I would love to do the challenge when I get around to getting my handgun, but then also I like to also take care of my guns so I wouldn't want to abuse it either.  The not cleaning part wouldn't bother me too much but I would have a hard time not lubing it a little bit every once in a while.

Plus I not made of money so blasting away a couple of thousand rounds wouldn't fly too well with my wife.  It would take me a couple of years to do the challenge then.
Link Posted: 11/13/2010 3:08:33 AM EDT
[#50]
As far as the ammo part of this it is reasonable.  You can just use the regular ammo you were going to shoot in practice or for matches anyway - the key is following the rules and keeping the log.
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