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Posted: 9/23/2011 5:50:54 AM EDT
5 year old cars with 80k+ miles still selling for over 50% of original MSRP, that should not be happening. One of my friends works in the industry and showed me the manheim auction prices, what dealers are paying for cars at auction is about where the initially asking price should be on the lot IMO.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 5:52:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 5:52:18 AM EDT
I've noticed that too looking for a used Vette. Maybe I should trade in, or sell privately, my mint condition, low mileage 2005 diesel truck?
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 5:52:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By snakes19:
5 year old cars with 80k+ miles still selling for over 50% of original MSRP, that should not be happening. One of my friends works in the industry and showed me the manheim auction prices, what dealers are paying for cars at auction is about where the initially asking price should be on the lot IMO.


Yeah it's weird. But it makes sense because nobody wants to waste money on brand new cars, so the used market has more demand.

Also, Obama destroyed a lot of cheap cars, which also drove up demand.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 5:53:28 AM EDT
The only thing I can think is the consumer demand for used cars is up. I suppose with he foul economy people hesitate to drop a bundle they may not even have on a new vehicle, only to see its value drop 25% the moment it leaves the car lot.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 5:53:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2011 5:55:02 AM EDT by TheCanuck]

Originally Posted By snakes19:
5 year old cars with 80k+ miles still selling for over 50% of original MSRP, that should not be happening. One of my friends works in the industry and showed me the manheim auction prices, what dealers are paying for cars at auction is about where the initially asking price should be on the lot IMO.


Less people can afford new cars so they buy used cars. The demand for used cars goes up, so does the price since the supply only diminishes as time goes on with less people buying new ones.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 5:54:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
So-called "Cash For Clunkers" not only pissed away HUGE $$, but managed to accomplish that too.

I think it's a reality that people can't afford new cars so people are buying used. So more demand than supply.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 5:55:42 AM EDT
the thing is used cars are priced virtually to the point where buying a new car makes better financial sense.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 5:56:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
So-called "Cash For Clunkers" not only pissed away HUGE $$, but managed to accomplish that too.

I think it's a reality that people can't afford new cars so people are buying used. So more demand than supply.


Cash for Clunkers KILLED supply...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 5:56:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2011 5:57:33 AM EDT by RarestRX]
Originally Posted By snakes19:
5 year old cars with 80k+ miles still selling for over 50% of original MSRP, that should not be happening. One of my friends works in the industry and showed me the manheim auction prices, what dealers are paying for cars at auction is about where the initially asking price should be on the lot IMO.


Try buying a used Prius these days. That market is on fire.

Gen II's going for new Gen III money. It's ridonculous.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 5:57:46 AM EDT
The used car market is where the auto industry really makes their money; the profit on a new car is much less than on a used car. The problem we have now is two fold. First is the cash for clunkers program; people went out and now have new cars and the clunkers couldn't be resold. Now we have a ton of folks with relatively young cars. Two, with the economy on the tank, who can afford to get a "new" car? Third, the auto industry isn't manufacturing new cars at a rate to push the "purchase" cycle. In other words the industry is upside down and people don't have money regardless.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:00:24 AM EDT
I'm sorry, the price of new is high as hell. $30,000 to $50,000 for a nice car or truck! Are you serious? Wages haven't caught up to that much inflation in the car market. Thats why used is so high. I have an old Monte Carlo in my garage '74. The window sticker was less than $5,000. Top of the line for it's day. AC, 454, turbo 400, trailer package(3.42 gears), moon roof, floor mats, landau top. People just can't afford new like they used to. But the UAW can get a raise!
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:00:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
So-called "Cash For Clunkers" not only pissed away HUGE $$, but managed to accomplish that too.

I think it's a reality that people can't afford new cars so people are buying used. So more demand than supply.


Cash for Clunkers KILLED supply...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I don't buy it. Did it make a dent? Sure, but there are plenty of used cars for sale. The demand has gone way up because of the economy. Nobody wants to buy new.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:04:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By snakes19:
5 year old cars with 80k+ miles still selling for over 50% of original MSRP, that should not be happening. One of my friends works in the industry and showed me the manheim auction prices, what dealers are paying for cars at auction is about where the initially asking price should be on the lot IMO.


I know what you mean. A local used car lot has a 2007 Green hardtop 4 door Jeep Wrangler with 90,000 miles.

They are asking $21,000 dollars for it!



Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:07:35 AM EDT
Good time to sell your old car and buy a new one if you can swing it. New cars are made pretty well. Take care of it and you're set for wheels for the next decade.

Dealer recently offered me $3K for a 2001 VW Jetta TDI with 170,000 miles, and told me how generous he was being.

Put it on Craigslist for $6K and sold it in an hour with several back-ups.

Went back and paid cash for a new one at invoice price.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:08:32 AM EDT
it took me 4 months to find a reasonably priced 4x4 ranger and I live in a huge market for that kind of truck
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:09:57 AM EDT
Good friend runs a Toyota repair shop.He is doing well rebuilding/repairing 10-15 yr old cars. He says its simple math: $3-5K engine/transmission overhaul vs $20-30K for a used two year old car of the same quality. Even the folks who can afford it won't spend the $ for a new one. Basic distrust in the future.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:11:38 AM EDT
Don't forget about 3 years ago the banks were NOT leasing cars and trucks like they were in previous years. A lot of used cars were lease returns that dealership and used car lots bought cheap. Now that there are less of the comming in off lease the prices have shot through the roof.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:17:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tenmikemike:
The only thing I can think is the consumer demand for used cars is up. I suppose with he foul economy people hesitate to drop a bundle they may not even have on a new vehicle, only to see its value drop 25% the moment it leaves the car lot.

That's not happening for some car manufacturers and models anymore.

The used market for a vehicle starts at the first owner first year, and depreciates from there, with the typical "off the lot drop" of $5k or whatever.

That jump, is now _ZERO_ dollars. The car goes right onto it's value curve for time/miles/wear consideration.

That is, if you buy Japanese, some Korean, and ONE American brand. The off the lot drop in value is still present for the typical shit turned out by most American brands.

If you want a Honda or Toyota or something, there's little difference in getting new verses almost new anymore, that plus the warranty and all that is making a new car much more attractive than it was. Note though, that also means an overall price increase for those cars.

My next vehicle is going to be new (I am about due for a new ride) because of this.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:17:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2011 6:19:25 AM EDT by crodeo]
In 2008 I bought a used 2006 Dodge Ram Big Horn Quad Cab Hemi 4x4 with 17,000 miles for $17,500. It was the height of bad gas prices. I sold it back to a dealership earlier this year with 50,000 miles on it for $17,000. I drove that truck for almost 3 years putting 33,000 miles on it for $500 (plus maintanence of course)
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:18:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rodent:
Dealer recently offered me $3K for a 2001 VW Jetta TDI with 170,000 miles, and told me how generous he was being.

Put it on Craigslist for $6K and sold it in an hour with several back-ups.


Should have stuck the $6k check that you got from the Craigslist buyer in the dealer's face. I understand the dealer is trying to run a business but there is no place for outright lies (if one is an honest individual).

Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:18:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
So-called "Cash For Clunkers" not only pissed away HUGE $$, but managed to accomplish that too.

I think it's a reality that people can't afford new cars so people are buying used. So more demand than supply.


That, and the fact that many folks are simply choosing to hang on to their existing vehicles - which means fewer used cars on the market.

Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:20:24 AM EDT
Yep, and I'm looking to sell my truck soon.

2002 Silverado 1500, 74,000 miles, V6....wonder how much I can get?
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:20:51 AM EDT
I've been looking for a new daily driver to replace my Jeep...even cars with 100k+ miles on them are selling for WAY more than I'm willing to pay for a vehicle of that condition. Guess I'll drive it into the ground. Thanks 0bama.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:21:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
So-called "Cash For Clunkers" not only pissed away HUGE $$, but managed to accomplish that too.

I think it's a reality that people can't afford new cars so people are buying used. So more demand than supply.


That, and the fact that many folks are simply choosing to hang on to their existing vehicles - which means fewer used cars on the market.


yup
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:22:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2011 6:23:13 AM EDT by stockshift]
Maybe it's also because easy credit isn't so "easy" any more? I wonder if the resultant tightening of credit standards to get a home loan has trickled down to the auto loan market. If you can't get approved for enough cash to buy a new car, perhaps folks are financing to buy a used car (and thereby driving up demand for used cars)?

<–– will be in the market for a car in 2012-13 but I am starting to peruse Cars.com and CarSense.com
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:25:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By snakes19:
the thing is used cars are priced virtually to the point where buying a new car makes better financial sense.


Sad but true if you have excellent credit and can get 0 interest and a new car warranty. Never thought I would say that/
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:26:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
Originally Posted By snakes19:
5 year old cars with 80k+ miles still selling for over 50% of original MSRP, that should not be happening. One of my friends works in the industry and showed me the manheim auction prices, what dealers are paying for cars at auction is about where the initially asking price should be on the lot IMO.


I know what you mean. A local used car lot has a 2007 Green hardtop 4 door Jeep Wrangler with 90,000 miles.

They are asking $21,000 dollars for it!





Jeep wranglers hold their value better than most vehicles. I think they are ranked 2nd or 3rd. I paid 26k for a 2011 2 door. Dealer gave me $2500 for an s10 that I paid 3000 for 2 years earlier.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:27:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1cheapshot:
I'm sorry, the price of new is high as hell. $30,000 to $50,000 for a nice car or truck! Are you serious? Wages haven't caught up to that much inflation in the car market. Thats why used is so high. I have an old Monte Carlo in my garage '74. The window sticker was less than $5,000. Top of the line for it's day. AC, 454, turbo 400, trailer package(3.42 gears), moon roof, floor mats, landau top. People just can't afford new like they used to. But the UAW can get a raise!


My dad was making $5000/year as a teacher in 1974.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:28:04 AM EDT
Yep, we are looking to replace our CR-V with something a bit more "comfortable" for commuting. Prices are crazy...hell even the KBB fair price of our CR-V is $10k....I don't think a 6 year old car with 120k miles on it is worth that but apparently some people do. 4Runner prices are even more crazy...I don't really want to pay 20 grand for a car with 95k "highway" miles on it.
And to think that I was looking for a used land cruiser.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:29:17 AM EDT
I just sold a 2011 4Runner that I bought new last October. I put 10,000 miles on it. I did not lose a dime on the deal.

I fell completely out of love with that thing and could not fathom driving it another 9 years. So I got a brand new truck and a big fat check out of the deal. Timing, inventory, tsunami, and local market conditions really helped.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:29:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By odontia32m:
Originally Posted By snakes19:
the thing is used cars are priced virtually to the point where buying a new car makes better financial sense.


Sad but true if you have excellent credit and can get 0 interest and a new car warranty. Never thought I would say that/


with some of those 100k mile power train warranties I am genuinely considering it
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:30:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
So-called "Cash For Clunkers" not only pissed away HUGE $$, but managed to accomplish that too.

I think it's a reality that people can't afford new cars so people are buying used. So more demand than supply.


Cash for Clunkers KILLED supply...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I don't buy it. Did it make a dent? Sure, but there are plenty of used cars for sale. The demand has gone way up because of the economy. Nobody wants to buy new.

Demand has gone way up compared to when? Back when Cash For Clunkers was passed the economy sucked and the car manufacturers were stuck with a ton of new cars that no one would buy. Huge discounts and financing deals were offered. I don't see any of that. All the car manufacturers are doing better now then they were in 2008 and I don't see any "get a vehicle at dealer cost, plus a $5,000 rebate and 0% fiancing for 5 years" deals going on like they used to have.


Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:31:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raysheen:
Yep, we are looking to replace our CR-V with something a bit more "comfortable" for commuting. Prices are crazy...hell even the KBB fair price of our CR-V is $10k....I don't think a 6 year old car with 120k miles on it is worth that but apparently some people do. 4Runner prices are even more crazy...I don't really want to pay 20 grand for a car with 95k "highway" miles on it.
And to think that I was looking for a used land cruiser.


In what ways is the CRV not comfortable for commuting? I've been looking at CRVs as a possible replacement for my truck.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:31:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raysheen:
Yep, we are looking to replace our CR-V with something a bit more "comfortable" for commuting. Prices are crazy...hell even the KBB fair price of our CR-V is $10k....I don't think a 6 year old car with 120k miles on it is worth that but apparently some people do. 4Runner prices are even more crazy...I don't really want to pay 20 grand for a car with 95k "highway" miles on it.
And to think that I was looking for a used land cruiser.


I drove my wife's 2011 CRV 1900 miles this week. It is vastly superior in comfort, handling, acceleration, and braking response than the 2011 4Runner I just dumped.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:32:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
So-called "Cash For Clunkers" not only pissed away HUGE $$, but managed to accomplish that too.

I think it's a reality that people can't afford new cars so people are buying used. So more demand than supply.

True, but the supply is now gone because of CFC.

Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:34:42 AM EDT
Ya. Some deals are still to be found, but few and far between.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:35:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By snakes19:
Originally Posted By odontia32m:
Originally Posted By snakes19:
the thing is used cars are priced virtually to the point where buying a new car makes better financial sense.


Sad but true if you have excellent credit and can get 0 interest and a new car warranty. Never thought I would say that/


with some of those 100k mile power train warranties I am genuinely considering it


Same here. My employer has X-Plan pricing with two of the Big Three (no, I will not buy GM). Further, we have dealer-invoice deals with some local car dealers for Mazda, Infiniti and other brands. With the way used cars are selling, I may just go new (even though I know the car will depreciate). I plan on driving the car until the wheels fall off anyway so why not?

Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:35:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By simmons5:
Don't forget about 3 years ago the banks were NOT leasing cars and trucks like they were in previous years. A lot of used cars were lease returns that dealership and used car lots bought cheap. Now that there are less of the comming in off lease the prices have shot through the roof.


This has more to do with it than cash for clunkers.

Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:36:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2011 6:43:15 AM EDT by raysheen]
Originally Posted By unseenSNIPER:
Originally Posted By raysheen:
Yep, we are looking to replace our CR-V with something a bit more "comfortable" for commuting. Prices are crazy...hell even the KBB fair price of our CR-V is $10k....I don't think a 6 year old car with 120k miles on it is worth that but apparently some people do. 4Runner prices are even more crazy...I don't really want to pay 20 grand for a car with 95k "highway" miles on it.
And to think that I was looking for a used land cruiser.


In what ways is the CRV not comfortable for commuting? I've been looking at CRVs as a possible replacement for my truck.


I find the seats to be similar to the civic...I don't mind them but my wife is driving it a lot more now and she's never found it comfortable. They are excellent little SUVs though. Good gas mileage, good acceleration, enough space for most people, etc
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:42:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SevenMaryThree:

Originally Posted By raysheen:
Yep, we are looking to replace our CR-V with something a bit more "comfortable" for commuting. Prices are crazy...hell even the KBB fair price of our CR-V is $10k....I don't think a 6 year old car with 120k miles on it is worth that but apparently some people do. 4Runner prices are even more crazy...I don't really want to pay 20 grand for a car with 95k "highway" miles on it.
And to think that I was looking for a used land cruiser.


I drove my wife's 2011 CRV 1900 miles this week. It is vastly superior in comfort, handling, acceleration, and braking response than the 2011 4Runner I just dumped.

CR-V is a great commuter car. Wife inherited a 2001 with 3k miles on it last year. It is great for a young, small fam in new England. The dealer wants to get it from us and get us into a new one. They are nicer, but we are really happier with the minimalist little cube as it is.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:44:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:

Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
So-called "Cash For Clunkers" not only pissed away HUGE $$, but managed to accomplish that too.

I think it's a reality that people can't afford new cars so people are buying used. So more demand than supply.

True, but the supply is now gone because of CFC.


CFC has been dead and gone for awhile now. You can't completely blame that for what's going on now.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:45:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
So-called "Cash For Clunkers" not only pissed away HUGE $$, but managed to accomplish that too.

I think it's a reality that people can't afford new cars so people are buying used. So more demand than supply.


That, and the fact that many folks are simply choosing to hang on to their existing vehicles - which means fewer used cars on the market.


yup


Being in the business, this is true but there is a downside to it as well.

The bulk of trade-ins we are getting are not suitable for resale. People are hanging on to vehicles much longer, and doing what they can to keep them running until it is no longer feasable. We are regularly getting trades with 250,000+ Kms on the odometer, took in a Silverado last week with 478K's. High mileage vehicles are not financeable, nor can any sort of warranty be offered, so we wholesale these units out , mostly to recyclers.

Finding a good low mileage used car/truck is very difficult these days, but as a business that is all we will sell.

Everybody likes the experience of owning a new vehicle, but when finances dictate otherwise, near new mint condition used is just as satisfying.

Yes, and quite profitable.

Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:46:16 AM EDT
I'd love a new car, but $35,000+ for a new car is just rediculous. I think Honda is the only car maker that makes a excellent quality/reliability car for close to what they were selling 10 years ago. I thought a used car would save me a few bucks, and at least with the BMW's I have been looking at there is very little decrease. I mean a used 2008 M3 with 80k mi is still asking over $40,000. Lower the mileage to something more acceptable and you are looking at $50,000 after ttl. There is just no way spending that kind of money on a car is worth it considering when you drive around on these Houston freeways you tear your car up.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:47:50 AM EDT
In this part of the country used car prices have been absurd for many years.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:48:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raysheen:
Yep, we are looking to replace our CR-V with something a bit more "comfortable" for commuting. Prices are crazy...hell even the KBB fair price of our CR-V is $10k....I don't think a 6 year old car with 120k miles on it is worth that but apparently some people do. 4Runner prices are even more crazy...I don't really want to pay 20 grand for a car with 95k "highway" miles on it.
And to think that I was looking for a used land cruiser.


Land cruisers hold their value better than EE bonds ya know. 120k miles on one and they don't last on the lot at 65% of their msrp
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:49:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2011 6:51:33 AM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By unseenSNIPER:
Originally Posted By raysheen:
Yep, we are looking to replace our CR-V with something a bit more "comfortable" for commuting. Prices are crazy...hell even the KBB fair price of our CR-V is $10k....I don't think a 6 year old car with 120k miles on it is worth that but apparently some people do. 4Runner prices are even more crazy...I don't really want to pay 20 grand for a car with 95k "highway" miles on it.
And to think that I was looking for a used land cruiser.


In what ways is the CRV not comfortable for commuting? I've been looking at CRVs as a possible replacement for my truck.


If you are a tall guy it is very cramped. I test drove one and felt like I was in a squirrel cage. Ended up with a Tundra whcih lets me stretch my legs out.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:51:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By snakes19:
the thing is used cars are priced virtually to the point where buying a new car makes better financial sense.


Yup. Regardless of whether the reason for this is decreased supply due to "cash for clunkers" or increased demand due to less money out there chasing cars (likely a combination of both), the end result is that those who can afford new, see a lot less incentive to buy used. I bought our last car new - the few thousand I would save otherwise was not worth the few less years of life, uncertainty of how it was treated, etc. of used. It wasn't at all like when I bought my last truck at nearly half the cost of a new one. We might have to get another vehicle again - and I have been looking at prices a lot - looks like new still makes the most sense. Your mileage may vary.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:51:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2011 6:53:48 AM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By Badlatitude:
In this part of the country used car prices have been absurd for many years.


Certified used Toyotas are nice for big ticket vehicles like trucks, I basically bought my Certified Tundra for $10,000 off the price of a new one, with 30K miles, with basically the same warranty as a new truck. (they do a drivetrain 5 year/100,000 on certified used).
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:53:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
So-called "Cash For Clunkers" not only pissed away HUGE $$, but managed to accomplish that too.


This problem was predicted and it has occurred as predicted.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 6:54:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By n3awalk3r:
I'd love a new car, but $35,000+ for a new car is just rediculous. I think Honda is the only car maker that makes a excellent quality/reliability car for close to what they were selling 10 years ago. I thought a used car would save me a few bucks, and at least with the BMW's I have been looking at there is very little decrease. I mean a used 2008 M3 with 80k mi is still asking over $40,000. Lower the mileage to something more acceptable and you are looking at $50,000 after ttl. There is just no way spending that kind of money on a car is worth it considering when you drive around on these Houston freeways you tear your car up.


If you leave the BMW lot I think you will find a lot of choices for well under 30,000.
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